A320 fwd cargo bay inop

[EGKK.]

Had this recently and required to load bags in the back. For piece of mind I want to know how the aircraft balance is affected?

For arguments sake what if I loaded 100 bags in the rear hold and half the passengers onboard all from around over wing, all the way back and no passengers in the front. At which point would the aircraft tip on its tail? Would it tip on its tail? Can't find anything in the manuals but common sense would suggest to load with caution.

Cheers for any feed back.

[750XL]

Whilst I can't answer your question specifically, 100 bags in H3 shouldn't be too much of an issue as the A320 isn't as prone to tail tipping. 738s/321s etc, on the other hand...

[No Fly Zone]

At first glance, I guess moving some pax forward would help. Next, I'd wonder why forward hold, but read hold was in-op. Did you learn the cause? I know little of the A320 series, including CG issues, but @750XL says that they are not a 'tippy' as many others. (As I recall, the B727 and DC-9 series were (are) famous for tipping back onto their tails when rear loads are imposed before forward loads.) Again, did you ever learn WHY the forward hold was INOP? What your fix to achieve dispatch?

[Goldenrivett]

Hi EGKK,

There is a rough guide at: http://www.caac.gov.cn/dev/fbs/XJSYY/201305/P020130503515529487025.pdf.

FCOM PER_LOD_WBA_LTS Load and TRIM Sheet, try moving your imaginary bags and passengers to see if you go outside the aft C of G limit. Obviously it won't tip on its tail until you are some way outside the envelope.

[EGKK.]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the feed back.

It was internal panel damage. I can only guess due to bags moving around. Not sure but non the less the MEL required it to be assumed unusable until repaired. As for loading the ground handling manual Recommends filling hold 1 (fwd hold) then remainder of the bags in 4 (aft hold)

Trimming with fwd hold not available for us was not an issue but my question is at what point, if any, would an A320 start to tip or is this practically impossible?

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

Can't answer your question specifically. However, my outfit, a larg(ish) A320 operator, had a policy of using the aft cargo compartment as priority. FWD compartment was hardly ever used - only on rare occasions when there was too much baggage to fit in the aft hold.

Resultant T/O C.G. Position was usually between 30-33% MAC.

Recently the policy has been changed and now we are using mainly the FWD compartment (this is supposed to speed up the loading process). The resultant T/O C.G. values are now usually in 26-28% range. Plenty of margin to spare either way...

[Lets Aviat]

Hi no fly just a bit of info I understand a hold can be put out of action for more reasons than you might imagine. Just to give you an idea, and this goes for any aircraft really, the hold could be out of action due to netting not available, ( you might say why not move the nets from the back to the front which would be am easy fix. The problem with this is the nets are custom made for the sections of holds.) the blow out panels may of been damaged, normal panels like the roof or a hydraulic actuator on the hold door.

For my fellow dispatcher at EGKK (LGW) when loading SSH we load 30 bags in the front and the remainder in H3 for the simple fact of fuel efficiency.

[EGKK.]

thank you so far guys.

Just playing devils advocate but lets just say I've loaded all the bags in the rear hold and a full load of passengers and for what ever reason i have to evacuate on ground. Are there any issues concerning the aircraft balance if any of the doors become unusable during the evacuation?

What if all the passengers are directed to the back of the plane?

Are we not now facing a potential tail tip? i can only assume that this is not a problem as airbus has not, from my knowledge, published anything concerning this in any of my manuals.

thanks again for any feed back :ok:

[Goldenrivett]

Hi EGKK,
Are we not now facing a potential tail tip?
Affirm. You have obviously not looked at slide 15 from the Airbus presentation I linked in post #4.
The chance of an evacuation using only the rear doors, with an extreme Aft C of G is remote, and no one is going to say that you should evacuate in a similar way to attempting to recover the gold in "The Italian job".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/3533647/At-last-Michael-Caine-reveals-ending-to-the-Italian-Job.html

[EGKK.]

Haha!

I did take a good look at the presentation. It was pretty good but without sounding rude it lacked written explanations to each slide.

Shouldn't Airbus attatch a note of caution as part of the MEL?

Or am I sounding daft? Where does the responsibility lie? The dispatcher/airline/captain...?

Thoughts

Cheers again

[Goldenrivett]

it lacked written explanations to each slide.

Doh!
You are correct. I should have said, look at each slide in sequence and note the shifting position of the C of G until it tips over.
What did you do instead?

Shouldn't Airbus attatch a note of caution as part of the MEL?
I think Airbus has foolishly thought the crews would be aware.