Helicopter Crash Longford [Archive]

SilsoeSid

16th Jul 2015, 11:31

MEan6XHVhOY

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/Gazelle%20Crash%20site_zpsukxsc60w.png
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.583708,-7.65841,3a,75y,65.55h,87.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEL58G22O8-ksuqvvoTpR7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Uploaded on Jul 16, 2015
An eyewitness filmed an attempted landing of a helicopter that later went on to crash into the Rustic Inn in Longford.

Helicopter crashes into pub in Longford - The Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/helicopter-crashes-into-pub-in-longford-1-3832215)

A number of people witnessed the incident, with bystanders reporting hearing a loud noise before the helicopter came down in a lane next to the pub, which is sited near an airfield.

The pub landlord told local media that the aircraft’s propellers struck the top of the building before tumbling onto the ground next to the Royal Canal.

He added: “It must have only been a few feet off the ground but they were awful lucky.”

Two men were on board the helicopter at the time.

A witness, who took a video of the aircraft attempting a landing before the incident, said that he started filming as the helicopter ‘got a bit low’, adding: “I went over to take a video. The minute it hit the building I called 999.”

Ciaran Doyle, who was working with his father, told RTE’s Morning Ireland programme: “[The helicopter] was hovering over the canal for about five minutes.

“It started to come in close to the pub, and it started moving towards the back.

“The minute I saw it, my hands started to shake and I picked up the phone and called the emergency services.”

Local radio reports suggested there had been some injuries to customers inside the pub while a spokesman for the Department of Transport said that two members of the Air Accident Investigation Unit had attended the scene.

Investigators are currently gathering evidence.

CCTV of the previous attempt and of the crash itself !!

http://cdn3.independent.ie/incoming/article31381794.ece/83a4b/ALTERNATES/w620/helicopter_1.jpg

Video on this page - http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/video-dramatic-footage-of-helicopter-crash-on-banks-of-royal-canal-31381424.html

Pics of the scene - Credit to Enda Farrell
https://www.flickr.com/photos/endafarrell1/sets/72157653609390394

Peter3127

16th Jul 2015, 11:53

Ah, the old "Do ya reckon you cant fit in there"? ....

helipixman

16th Jul 2015, 13:57

Luther... You say amateur video shows not too extensively damaged.

Have another look at the photos and video. From what I can see the tail boom separates and ends up in the canal. Its not visible in any of the photos of the wreck.

Just glad Pilot and pax ok

Helipixman

nyker

16th Jul 2015, 14:37

Ah, the old "Do ya reckon you cant fit in there"? ....

Amazing. He had a go, turned back, I guess his/her piloting skills we're questioned (I would love to hear the conversation in Heli before 2nd attempt was made) ("it didn't look that close to me") and decided to land,

SpringHeeledJack

16th Jul 2015, 14:59

Ah, the old "Do ya reckon you cant fit in there"? ....

I'm reminded of the even tighter fit in 2008 that ended in Accident: Sikorsky S-76B, N399BH, Bettystown Co. Meath, on 18 September 2008: Report No 2010-019 | AAIU.ie (http://www.aaiu.ie/node/272)

Efirmovich

16th Jul 2015, 15:23

"Just go your way a bit,,,,,,!!

E.

wokkaboy

16th Jul 2015, 15:29

It wasn't going to end any differently was it?

Yet again, a perfectly serviceable aircraft is trashed by the actions of the person flying it.

Whilst some of us work hard to progress and promote the safety of helicopters, there will always be those who do the exact opposite.

:mad:

RINKER

16th Jul 2015, 16:14

Glad no one was hurt.
A number of years ago there was a video on here of a Gazelle in a
Similar colour doing a pretty shaky take off or maybe it was landing ?
Anyone remember it ?

R

newfieboy

16th Jul 2015, 16:43

Now that's some piss poor decision making to be sure. Even blew the cover off the boat, but still committed to land. Not that it matters now but hello....FOD through the rotor disk, ah it's only a boat cover hey ho. If I was the boat owner I'd be very peeved. Maybe hitting the building was karma for giving the boat/s a beating with the downwash. Another nice looking machine destroyed through idiocy. Lucky no one was seriously hurt. Must of been desperate for a pint!!!!

[email protected]

16th Jul 2015, 16:56

'A feckin' eegit' as I believe the local parlance goes:ugh:

tu154

16th Jul 2015, 16:58

Even worse, it's walking distance from Abbeyshrule airfield.

StAn gelo

16th Jul 2015, 17:00

RINKER

You're probably thinking about G-LARR and the infamous 'wedding video'

Efirmovich

16th Jul 2015, 17:01

Yep it was this one, It was talking an old lady for a birthday spin IIRC,, same machine sure.

Sad end and up goes our premiums again !

E.

RINKER

16th Jul 2015, 17:10

Nope

G Larr is an As 350 not a Westland Gazelle.

R

John R81

16th Jul 2015, 17:23

Air Accident investigation may not take too long :(

Luther Sebastian

16th Jul 2015, 17:44

Helipixman - I know exactly how 'little damage' there was. Perhaps I should have pointed out that that's what the original article said...

Pink Panther

16th Jul 2015, 18:59

Oh, deary deary me. Looks like somebody was going to do a runner.

Man arrested after helicopter hits Longford pub - RTÉ News (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0716/715175-helicopter-abbeyshrule/)

Wetbulb

16th Jul 2015, 19:40

What would have been the legalities regarding transport of passengers in this particular a/c?

Being an ex-RAF machine rather than a civilian SA341G or J, wouldn't it have been operated under a Permit To Fly as opposed to a CofA?

ACW599

16th Jul 2015, 19:57

>Being an ex-RAF machine rather than a civilian SA341G or J, wouldn't it have been operated under a Permit To Fly as opposed to a CofA?<

From G-INFO:

EASA Category: NON EASA
Engines: 1 x TURBOMECA ASTAZOU IIIN2
MTOW: 1900kg
Total Hours: 9525 at 31/12/2013
Year Built: 1973
Approved Maint. Programme: None
CofA/Permit: Permit to Fly
Permit Validity Expiry: 04/08/2015

claudia

16th Jul 2015, 20:36

It's on a UK " permit to fly " so I'm wondering and concerned is such a machine legal to fly outside of the UK. I recently declined to purchase
a permit machine for this reason.

SilsoeSid

16th Jul 2015, 20:36

Crashed a vehicle and doing a runner, all sounds very familiar.
I hope this wasn't the result of a wager made in the bar earlier that afternoon :suspect:

RINKER

16th Jul 2015, 21:26

I believe they relaxed the passenger restriction on permit to fly aircraft
Only 3 pax allowed I think.
Not sure about outside UK or flight over water though
A number of years ago I flew a UK Reg Coa SA341 G Gazelle to Ireland
And I was questioned as to whether it was ex mil for that very reason which
Of course it wasn't.

So not sure about permit aircraft.

R

claudia

16th Jul 2015, 21:46

Rinker, Yes regulation was changed so passengers did not have to be
classified as "crew" but I do believe UK Permit means UK Use.
As I mentioned I did not purchase one because my travels take me to Southern Ireland quite often.

tomotomp

16th Jul 2015, 22:33

Limitations of use of a Permit to Fly aircraft
In recognition of the lack of compliance with some of the standards of airworthiness, the issue and continued validity of a Permit to Fly will reflect the limitations under which an aircraft is permitted to operate, and will normally be more restrictive than the operating conditions permitted in the case of a comparable aircraft operating on a Certificate of Airworthiness. The limitations are as follows:
a) Flights will normally be restricted to day Visual Flight Rules (VFR) only.
b) Limitations may be placed upon the numbers of persons permitted to be carried in the aircraft, either in general, or in specific operational circumstances.
c) Aircraft will be required to be placarded showing operating limitations and conditions.
d) Aircraft will normally be restricted to flights within UK airspace unless the prior agreement of the country in which the flights are to be made is obtained.
e) Aircraft will not normally be permitted to fly over congested areas.

dusty crop

16th Jul 2015, 22:48

Similar to the bettystown crash a few years ago if anyone remembers?
This is what drives up insurance premiums and gives the industry a bad name .
Abbeyshrule being so near why land there,its time for prison sentences to be introduced for this type of behaviour.

Wetbulb

16th Jul 2015, 23:50

I *think* with a Permit to Fly that you can get the CAA to write permission to fly outside of the UK into the permit. But you need to gain explicit permission from the other country on a flight-by-flight basis.

AdamFrisch

17th Jul 2015, 06:57

Excuse me, but is he mad trying to put it down there? Even see-sawing/balancing on the edge with the tail out it would have been mad close. Mental case.

https://img.rasset.ie/000add58-614.jpg

Silver Pegasus

17th Jul 2015, 07:31

In regards to Passengers.. The one involved here is himself a stunt pilot. You can likely imagine how the cockpit conversation went down.

Longford helicopter survivor cheats death for SECOND time after chopper crashes into pub - Irish Mirror Online (http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/longford-helicopter-survivor-cheats-death-6083109)

tu154

17th Jul 2015, 08:09

Other developments this morning, alleged pilot arrested.

Helicopter crash pilot arrested at airport as he tried to leave country is released - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/helicopter-crash-pilot-arrested-at-airport-as-he-tried-to-leave-country-is-released-31383516.html)

ShyTorque

17th Jul 2015, 09:05

As a professional pilot, I'm often required to obtain written CAA Permissions to be exempt from the 1,000 foot rule to land in congested areas. These permissions always mandate "no closer than twenty metres from the nearest person, vehicle, or structure". The reasons should be obvious.

I wonder what permission this helicopter was being operated under?

piperboy84

17th Jul 2015, 09:53

It's the hotels fault for not providing adequate deterrence

http://youtu.be/xqHrTtvFFIs

FLY 7

17th Jul 2015, 10:00

Having now seen the video, that was madness beyond belief, and remarkable that no one was killed.

I hope the full force of the law is applied. That kind of mindless stupidity does us no favours whatsoever :ugh:

Wetbulb

17th Jul 2015, 10:02

Here's another poor landing in G-BXTH, executed by its then-owner. I think he was a Scottish rally driver and had previously survived a power line strike in another ex-military 341.

https://vimeo.com/66741258

ronan mcmahon

17th Jul 2015, 10:04

Good god this is all we need in Ireland another big stick for the authority to beat us with.

Mad as a box of frogs .:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Flyting

17th Jul 2015, 10:13

"Don't die before me then..."
He might just....
:ouch:

RINKER

17th Jul 2015, 11:07

Thanks wetbulb that's the video I was referring to.

R

Peter3127

17th Jul 2015, 11:49

xT0uc5m9bFk

:ok:

James Roberts

17th Jul 2015, 12:21

Shoo....that landing was pretty appalling and nearly a dynamic rollover to boot, he was lucky that the left skid absorbed the drift.

Midlifec

17th Jul 2015, 13:40

In this case it seems likely that while Insurers will likely be in a position to deny cover for the hull, they probably will have to cover (At least in the short term) the third party damage claim/s. Would anyone care to comment on why we see so much out and out nonsense with privately operated Gazelles, they seem often to be operated by those prone to pushing the limits, cuttting corners on maintenance and training etc etc - these guys, just like the other confined area 'mishap' near Salisbury a couple of years ago are lucky that there wasn't a significant fire- I don't think on this occasion though that the pilot will evade the strong arm of the law and as I started off- he is likely to be significantly out of pocket.

G-ARZG

17th Jul 2015, 14:37

"A Stunt Pilot" ? (post 32).
Someone misheard, just sounded like "stunt pilot".....

FLY 7

17th Jul 2015, 15:48

I think the Gazelle is a lovely helicopter.

It's often referred to as the 'sportscar' of helicopters, with slightly tricky handling, that has caught out quite a few pilots.

But, like sportscars, maybe it also appeals to the more exhibitionist pilots who like to try and impress - with the unfortunate consequences.

Anyone can have an accident, but there must have been a dozen reasons not to have attempted that landing

chopjock

17th Jul 2015, 16:31

In this case it seems likely that while Insurers will likely be in a position to deny cover for the hull

Why is that then?

RINKER

17th Jul 2015, 17:13

A lot of years ago I was out for check ride PplH with instructor. Bumbling along and he points at a large country house and says. " right pretend that's your mates house, show me how you would set up and land there. "
Now it was a confined area but not too small. So I did the usual high recce
And said how I would do it. " perfect he says, quite happy with that " BUT
" why not land in the Huge field across the road ! "
He had a point, which I always remembered.

R

Midlifec

17th Jul 2015, 18:13

Probably to do with the following resonably standard policy terms-

'The policyholder shall at all times use due diligence and do and concur in doing everything reasonably practicable to avoid or diminish any loss hereon'

or

'The policyholder shall comply with all air navigation and airworthiness orders and requirements issued by any competent authority affecting the safe operation of the aircraft'

These terms or very close approximations of the same are most likely tucked away under the 'Conditions Precedent' of the Insurance policy and given the blatant and public nature of this accident it seems highly unlikely that any claim for the hull would or should be entertained- this might be different if the Assured party isn't flying the helicopter i.e he has loaned it to a friend but either way it's gonna be a stinker of a claim.

nigelh

17th Jul 2015, 19:34

I would be very pissed off if that **** was paid off and my premiums went up ........!!!! We can all make mistakes or have a moment of bad judgement but the idiot had been in once and pulled out .... To try again in a totally unsuitable spot was lunacy . I hope he is never allowed to fly again !

Michael Gee

17th Jul 2015, 20:03

Maybe two idiots - Dualed up as pic on G- INFO shows - who was flying ? From an approach such as is shown it looks like training is required !

SilsoeSid

17th Jul 2015, 20:16

Duals appear to have been fitted, as can be seen in Enda Farrell's pictures here;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/endafarrell1/sets/72157653609390394/

and also

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02416/02_16221913_1b7f3a_2416738a.jpg
The Sun (http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/6547506/Cops-lift-chopper-skipper.html)

FSXPilot

17th Jul 2015, 21:23

Does anyone have a clue as to who the idiots inside it were?

RVDT

17th Jul 2015, 21:43

I think the vernacular might be - "Depriving some village of an idiot"

mgsag

18th Jul 2015, 01:15

And aren't we all perfect pilots!? Reference has been made to the previous owner and it has to be asked why? The previous owner was not involved in this incident. It makes me laugh that everybody has an opinion on anything caught on video without knowing the circumstances. If you've never had a bad landing, then you're a liar. This incident was not in the same category as to that previously described landing by the previous owner. What goes around, comes around, as they say.

Frying Pan

18th Jul 2015, 06:30

I can only speak for myself about us all being perfect pilots...so I won't, and I'm not. However, this isn't just a 'simple' unaware dynamic rollover or swinging the tail into an unseen bush. In my eyes this is a monumental lapse of judgement in even trying to land there. Only he'll know what he was thinking? :ugh:

Wetbulb

18th Jul 2015, 08:45

To answer mgsag - video with previous owner was posted at request of Rinker earlier in thread. Reference to the then owner being Scottish was intended to disconnect him from the previously mentioned wedding video flight in Northern Ireland or this unfortunate incident in Ireland.

SilsoeSid

18th Jul 2015, 08:49

Good morning mgsag and welcome to PPRuNe,
So you know who the runner; sorry, the other person in the aircraft was?

OvertHawk

18th Jul 2015, 09:11

The Longford crash is inexcusable - If there is not a jail term in that man's future (particularly considering he appears to have tried to leave the country afterwards) then there is something wrong with the law.

However... It does seem to me that it's a little unjust to post a video of the previous owner doing an (admittedly bad) landing. It links him, most unfairly, with the recent crash.

OH

Wetbulb

18th Jul 2015, 09:17

Point taken OH. Reasoning for posting above. But, yes, I see where you're coming from - it certainly wasn't the intention - so apologies to everyone for that.

mgsag

18th Jul 2015, 09:27

The point I was trying to make is the same as OH. I am, in no way, trying to defend this current incident.

Rotate too late

18th Jul 2015, 09:55

If you are referring to the landing with the little old lady in, what the hell was wrong with that?!
Gazelles are low CofG with no stab. having just finished my CPL on a 355f1 I can assure you that that was nothing compared to my attempt...I am glad none of you were watching mine, I think I would have been hung drawn quartered, burnt at the stake, drowned and worst of all banned from the bar! :ok:

BOBAKAT

18th Jul 2015, 11:01

Now the pilot know what is it a : "to small place for land".... Expensive, but a goood lesson.. :ok:

Michael Gee

18th Jul 2015, 11:55

Why are they moving this heli from accident site ?

212man

18th Jul 2015, 12:02

Why are they moving this heli from accident site ?

It's quite normal - aircraft wrecks lying around the place are an eyesore. ....,

TWT

18th Jul 2015, 12:09

There was a function booked on the lawn,the mess had to be cleared up so they could set up the marquee.

Flyting

18th Jul 2015, 12:28

I'm going with this was a bet lost...."I bet you can't park your heli closer to the pub"

I mean..... COME ON!!! How many options do you have???!!!!!!
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

https://www.google.at/maps/place/Cloisters/@53.5837495,-7.6579451,438m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0000000000000000:0xe29de2423025eaf 5

...P.S. the pacman banging his head on the wall is perfect for this thread.

FLY 7

18th Jul 2015, 15:57

"Why are they moving this heli from accident site ?"

Because someone else wanted to land there.

Sloppy Link

18th Jul 2015, 19:41

Dynamic rollover? Don't think so, looks more like disymetry of lift caused by increased induced flow on the building side. Does no one remember their basic PoF lessons warning of the dangers if hovering too close to a hangar? Be warned, Oh best beloved.

SilsoeSid

18th Jul 2015, 19:59

SL, the 'dynamic rollover' reference is in relation to the 'granny vid' wetbulb linked to, not this Longford incident as in this one the skids didn't get chance to touch the ground.

sycamore

18th Jul 2015, 21:31

That helo was perfectly serviceable when I last flew it in 1976......

P1DRIVER

19th Jul 2015, 05:00

Sycamore,

The a/c was perfectly serviceable up to a split second the starboard rotor blade hit the building !!!!

SilsoeSid

19th Jul 2015, 07:41

P1DRIVER;
The a/c was perfectly serviceable up to a split second the starboard rotor blade hit the building !!!!

Red, Blue Yellow, but can't see a Green :p

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03378/The_scene_from_the_3378490b.jpg

sycamore

19th Jul 2015, 13:54

He could`ve parked it `a la VL`,tail clear over the canal.......but,but...some other eejit would`ve driven a boat into it,or tried to tie up to the hand-hold....

Wetbulb

19th Jul 2015, 18:14

Just having another look at the video...

I'm wondering if the first point of impact was the MR making contact with the lamp-post. And if the hole was taken out of the building's wooden cladding by the tail as the aircraft was suddenly rotated.

Have a look at the marks on the lamp-post (roughly in line with the middle of the open window in this photo). Having watched the video a couple more times, it seems this way, but perhaps my imagination.

http://cdn4.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article31381953.ece/ab3fc/ALTERNATES/w300square/IISH0719_2.jpg

whoknows idont

19th Jul 2015, 18:49

That would be one prime quality heck of a lamp-post. Not even dented... :ok:

SilsoeSid

19th Jul 2015, 19:48

He could`ve parked it `a la VL`,tail clear over the canal.......but,but...some other eejit would`ve driven a boat into it,or tried to tie up to the hand-hold....

Not sure the distance between the building and canal edge (5-7m?), but with the rotor diameter being 10.5m, I reckon that even if he did manage that without hitting the building the ac would possibly have toppled back into the canal anyway :eek:

Have a look at the marks on the lamp-post (roughly in line with the middle of the open window in this photo). Having watched the video a couple more times, it seems this way, but perhaps my imagination.

Looks to me more like sticky tape residue than blade strike marks.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/endafarrell1/19551138360/sizes/o/

As you can also see on the other posts, including those on the other side of the canal;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/endafarrell1/19551101768/sizes/k/

And if the hole was taken out of the building's wooden cladding by the tail as the aircraft was suddenly rotated.
That's not even imagination !