Airways Aviation - Any good??

[Boulderman1988]

Hi,

I've just stumbled across this flight school in Coventry during my search for a suitable flight school. Does anyone know anything about them? I haven't managed to find any reviews or feedback on them like i have for oxford aviation academy etc. which was my original choice but since i am currently living in the west midlands this one would be ideal if its any good.

Cheers

Matt

[paco]

It used to be Atlantic

Phil

[pilotatlast]

The owners of Airways Aviation bought AFT but have completely transformed it. Now a real competitor to CTC and CAE.

[Gordon Bennet]

They have a long way to go for that, I think. But we'll see.

G

[dinoorin]

A very long way to go - all their best staff have jumped ship to Jerez, Oxford and CTC

[Alex Whittingham]

What happened to the association between Airways Aviation and Kura announced a couple of months ago (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/kura-aviation-and-airways-aviation-announce-new-pathway-to-airline-employment/)? Did they fall out? I can't find any mention on existing websites.

[Happy Wanderer]

Dinoorin, absolutely NOT true.

HW

[Fanjita]

Have you considered Aeros at Coventry airport?

I (and many others) recommend them highly

[Stn120]

In the past 7 or so months, the Head of Training has changed, the CFI has changed, at least 3 TKI's have left, The DCTKI has left recently, the CTKI I believe has stepped down and they are looking for a replacement. Low student numbers coming through the door. Dominated by foreign students. Other members of staff have left fairly recently. They haven't replaced some of the staff. Some of those who have left, have gone to CTC, FTE and CAEOAA.
It doesn't bode well.
They are in no way, in competition with the bigger ATO's. Not sure about the tie up with KURA, it certainly has gone quiet.
Airways (previously Atlantic Flight Training) certainly has a chequered history. So beware.

If in doubt, go and see what it is like for yourself, pay them a visit. But compare with other schools too.

[WASALOADIE]

IMHO Dinoorin is correct as is Stn120 and that Happy Wanderer and pilotatlast may be looking through rose tinted glasses (or through the bottom of glasses that have previously been filled with alcoholic refreshment)

[CaptainCriticalAngle]

Does anyone have any more info on what happened to the partnership with Kura? That sounded promising.

[Tasmaniac]

Kura's business model is to take exceptionally well qualified and motivated students, put them through an intensive (and costly) programme of interviews, simulator flights, Etc and groom them for an airline interview. What they do, they do well. And their success rate, whilst small in numbers, is impressive.

However, one of the reasons they are successful in placing these students, is that they are highly selective and only take the very best. One could argue that these guys are going to make it regardless of Kura or not.

So the 'tie up' is only as as far as an agreement to put some students in front of Kura and let them decide whether or not to take them (and their money).

It comes from OAA. The current GM/HoT was at OAA once upon a time and had this connection. Of course it worked well in OAA where there are many bright, motivated cadets. Doubtful if Kura will be taking many from AA. They certainly haven't to date.

[Boeingbarbie]

Recently viewed the school with my son and have to say was very impressed.
Yes the building isn't brand-new but is of better standard than offered by OAA. The HOT was very knowledgable and gave us confidence in what they have to offer. My son is joining the August course which is almost full.

[WASALOADIE]

The August course isn't almost full. They have a capacity for 24 or more per class and to my knowledge they have 25% of that on the course

[Tasmaniac]

Don't say you weren't warned! :ugh:

[Tasmaniac]

Here are some of the links

BBGA Member Airways Aviation ATPL training with an industry focus - BBGA (http://www.bbga.aero/2015/08/bbga-member-airways-aviation-atpl-training-with-an-industry-focus/)

Airways Aviation introduces new pilot training pathway - Pilot Career News (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/airways-aviation-introduces-new-pilot-training-pathway/)

New ATPL training with an industry focus - News - Pilot (http://www.pilotweb.aero/news/new_atpl_training_with_an_industry_focus_1_4191794)

They've done well to get it in a number of mags / websites.

If you read it, however, you'll see that it is long on rhetoric and short on detail. What it says is "We've given a new name to our standard integrated CPL/IR MCC/JOC training programme".

Here's the copy

Airways Aviation has launched its flagship integrated ATPL course, Elite Pathways ProgrammeTM (EPP).

According to Airways Aviation, the EPP is a fully-integrated ATPL package which offers EASA approved training with a focus on student experience and industry-readiness.

Airways Aviation is an Approved Training Organisation, with Pilot Training Academies and Aviation Foundation Schools in a variety locations across Europe, the Middle East, Asia and Australia.

Airways Aviation’s Commercial Manager in the UK, Naveed Kapadia, explained, “We’ve worked with industry partners and aviation experts, to design and develop the EPP to provide a student-centric approach to training that offers additional skills, experience and opportunities beyond the standard ATPL course. It’s packaged with additional airline preparation experience and advanced flight training – including upset recovery, multi pilot and jet training.”

In addition to the launch of its EPP, Airways Aviation has also recently opened a fair-weather flying base in Huesca, Spain. Aside from the location, the base offers students a opportunity to undertake European (EASA) accredited training in European airspace.

Kapadia added, ‘This is a fantastic time to undertake pilot training – airlines are beginning to ramp up their recruitment of new pilots to meet future demand and at Airways Aviation we believe we are well placed to play a pivotal role in the training of those pilots globally.”



If they'd announced the purchase of a new A320 / B737-800 simulator to do the MCC/JOC in, then that would have been something to sit up and take note of. And it would certainly have been a step in the right direction to attracting more high quality, european-based students. But sadly, of course, it doesn't say that. It is just another media facelift PR announcement without any substance..........

Come on boss-man..... Put your hand in your pocket and buy a fixed base Airbus A320 or Boeing 737-800 NG flight simulator from MPL-SS Holland. Now that would really take AA into the 21st century and be something to brag about. ;)

[Stn120]

Just a new name for their ATPL Integrated course. It will be the same content plus a few weeks in a sim in the Netherlands, just new name and shiny new brochure. It would seem that it is aimed at EU nationals only from the entry requirements.

as the saying goes "you can polish a t1rd, but at the end of a day, it's still a t1rd"

The new label with the word "Elite" might sway a few easily impressed customers, but those who do their research carefully will soon realize that there is little or benefit over any other course.

I hear that the course just commencing has only 5 or 6 students on it. OK so you get a more personal form of instruction but not the benefit os working within a large course group.

Have they solved their instructor problem yet? Last I heard, they only had 3 Ground school instructors and were looking for a new chief ground instructor.

[MATT83]

Have you considered Aeros at Coventry airport?

I (and many others) recommend them highly

I agree with Fanjita,

I completed my CPL/ME and IR with Aeros and found them to be very friendly and professional. I paid as i flew and didn't pay anything up front.

The training was excellent and i highly recommend them. The instructors were all excellent and very helpful.

All the aircraft are all well maintained and are in excellent condition, iv also heard that they now use glass cockpit Tecnams and Diamonds too.

I am now flying for Ryanair and i know of at least 10 other people who also trained at Aeros who are now with Ryanair too.

Feel free to PM me if you want to know anything else about my time at Aeros.

I have no regrets what so ever in choosing Aeros, and the price is very competitive, especially when comparing it to integrated courses.

Deffo worth a visit.

Matt

[Stn120]

Heard from a contact that Airways may have made redundancies very recently, needing to reduce overheads and streamline their operations due to trading difficulties. Does anyone know any more about this. Doesn't sound good for them.

[WASALOADIE]

Whilst advertising for new CEO and instructors and paying for large advertising campaigns in magazines and industry papers? I think the rot was setting in earlier in the year when a number of key people left and they weren't bringing many customers in through the doors.

[ersa]

Grown to fast to quickly , been done before and it will again

[rdhan1]

please let me know if you son joined AA in coventry if so are you happy and is he happy?

[fwjc]

Yes, the classes are small. That's because the previous model of accepting candidates purely on their ability to pay has been stopped, and quality is preferred over quantity. Any company undergoing such major changes as associated with a buy-out can have growing pains, but all that I have seen as a consultant suggests that standards and attitudes under the new management have improved and continue to improve. I wouldn't expect a smooth journey for the new company, but neither would it be beneficial to tar it with the misdemeanours of the past and the previous management team. The parent company is firmly rooted in global academic excellence which, I am sure, will continue to drive the improvements.
Vitriol from former staff is not professional and reflects more on those individuals than it does on the Academy.
Looking at integrated schools only, I would be happy to recommend Airways. That doesn't mean there aren't other good integrated schools, but I would say that not all of the "big" one's is as good as they themselves think they are, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them takes a big tumble in the next year or so.

[parkfell]

Do tell us your thoughts. Great intrigue.
I think the one you are hinting at may well be sold off as they concentrate on more profitable aspects of their business. :rolleyes:

[Gordon Bennet]

Would that be one who has been getting rid of good staff? :E

G

[ahmad777]

if you're willing to fly in the middle east ( Jordan , Royal Jordanian air academy ) I'm currently training there , highly recommend it .
types : Piper Seminole , TB-20 Trinidad , Warrior III , Archer III, Piper Cherokee .

my training program

Ground school training course (frozen ATPL)

Flight training course (PPL)

Flight training course (CPL)

Flight training course (IR)

Flight training course (MCC)
Total flight hours of 215 ( 130 single engine , 20 single sim . , 25 multi , 20 multi sim , 20 on the TB ) .

[skyboy83]

Ahmad777

Does RJAA have european students training in their academy?

[Stn120]

Just come back from a little adventure.

I hear that Airways may be on the move. They were talking about moving to Oxford some time ago and I hear it may finally be happening. Some flying to be done at Kidlington, but the groundschool moving elsewhere and more flying being done in Spain.

Does anyone else have any info on this? Why move away from an established base in Coventry?

I hear they still have low student numbers on their courses, more personal instruction for the students but not economically viable, surely?

[Reverserbucket]

Perhaps they are buying CAE Oxford? I heard they were looking to offload their ab-initio business recently.

[nick14]

Coventry building is being vacated by them in the near future and HT advertised for Oxford.

[Happy Wanderer]

No way AA will be taking over CAE OAA. Think you'll find some (but possibly not all) of the current tenants in Dakota House at Cov will be moving across to AA's premises once they move out. The AA HoT role to be based at Oxford has been advertised a number of times on various recruitment websites.

HW

[Stn120]

I hear that they are still struggling to recruit staff and that current staff are not happy about the relocation and some may not go. They have big aspirations and are renting a large building at Oxford. If they don't get the staff, how can they teach all the subjects? Is it just the kudos of Oxford they are after? You can cover all the cracks with as much paint as you like, but the cracks will still be there beneath the surface.
If I were looking to train in this industry, I wouldn't be parting with my money to a small set up (low student numbers and low staff numbers), when a much larger organisation with all the staff and facilities and with pedigree (proven results) is right next door and the cost works out about the same.

AA seem to be teaching more PPL than ATPL.

[anoraknaphobia]

AA has new staff that are well respected in the industry, and bring lots of experience. The move to Oxford airport seems a genuine attempt to rid the Atlantic image IMHO.

[champair79]

A large flight school beginning with C will move into the Airways building (they're currently in Dakota House). I think that tells you who's doing well and who aren't. Yes they may not be the cheapest but the quality of instruction is great and you've got a mixture of modular and integrated students to bond with. That can only be a good thing when you're learning the theory.

Champ

[Happy Wanderer]

A large flight school beginning with C will move into the Airways building (they're currently in Dakota House)

'Large' Champ, really?? :rolleyes: Or do you mean groundschool?

HW

[wonder88]

What does this deal mean exactly, surely they are not trying to suggest you need to train with AA in order to be selected by RYR. :=
That's what it looks like to me. It seems everyone in aviation training is desperate to turn it all into a closed shop. :ugh:

Ps: I do realise McGinley has other airline partners but RYR are their main source of business.

McGinley Aviation and Airways Aviation announce new partnership - Pilot Career News (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/mcginley-aviation-and-airways-aviation-announce-new-partnership/)

[ersa]

They are not suggesting it , but they are

[pilotatlast]

Champair you have a very interesting sense of logic. You state that a ATO beginning with C is moving from one portacabin to another in Coventry and Airways Avitation is moving to a new Multi million pound training facility in Oxford and you state who's doing well :D

[Stn120]

It may be a newish building at Oxford, but hardly a multi-million pound training facility. On lease too, so all fresh paint and glitter in reality. It's the training that should really be of priority, not putting on a nice new shiny appearance. Once they get past the "wow factor" of a new building and fresh signs only to realize what really exists inside.

From what I hear, UK/European students get the bum deal having to observe the hierarchy cow-towing to overseas students, observing religious holidays, insisting upon rooms to observe prayer, complaining there are no facilities to wash their private parts, turning up when they feel like it, being allowed access to phones in class. If they don't like something, they bypass the instructors and go crying straight to the HoT.

[jamesgrainge]

So, having done alot of research, the cost of a CPL+IR+MEP is significantly cheaper at Bartolini in Poland. £14000 all in, £2500 for groundschool at Bristol.

Question is why? The same course in UK costs £20000+

Tell me there is something I'm missing such as quality of training/aircraft/instructors are ex military boxers with a sharp back of their hand?? This kind of cost would bring an fatpl to somewhere less than £35k?

[this is my username]

Bartolini?

No VAT.
Low costs.
No landing / approach fees.
They have their own sim which they charge out at very reasonable rates which you will use for the majority of the IR.
The hourly rates on their Tecnam twins with G1000 are significantly less than the hourly rates on the traditional twins used by most schools.
There are no examiner fees (they use industry examiners rather than costly CAA examiners).
The whole process is quick - 2 months for the complete CPL/IR course vs 4 to 6 months at most schools - keeps costs down for everyone (but you do have to work hard!).
Accommodation is cheap.
They are nice people.

No link other than as a happy customer. I've got no experience of other EASA CPL/IR schools so can't really make a comparison ......

[jamesgrainge]

Thankyou, I read very good things about Bartolini and many candidates now happily flying for LCC's. Looks like that's my summer holiday next year sorted ! The examiners are CAA and give you the exact same licence as here are they not?

[anoraknaphobia]

Sounds like you have experienced working there?

[Stn120]

No, but I know someone who has

[parkfell]

Has the new HoT been announced yet?

[easydebt]

Mark Young; no CFI post required; 2 FI's (for now).

[easydebt]

OAA Centre Manager recently departed and moved over to AA; may find 1 or 2 OAA FI's following due mainly to unhappiness over new shift patterns; not sure exactly why no CFI position, can only be there is a group one somewhere like Huesca with Oxford being a satellite base.

[Happy Wanderer]

Same old then - still more staff than students by the sound if it!

[WASALOADIE]

Airways groundschool work public holidays, a practice to appease the foreign students, I hear this is still ongoing as they have worked Good Friday and today. The other schools don't do this. Instructors have to book the days off and don't get time and a half in lieu!

[fwjc]

Note: I would be wary of bitter former employees of a previous regime, and competitors comments. I wouldn't consider them to be particularly impartial or constructive.

Every school has its pros and cons for the students. Every school also has a parent company, all of which have a very different perspective on their business model and how to create a good training academy. That is why CTC is so different to FTE, is so different to CAE, is so different to AAA, is so different to FTA, is so different to BCFT, is so different to Aeros and many more I could name.

All of these schools, and many more, are in the business of training new commercial pilots. Some are driven entirely by money and their customers are really the airlines. There is a benefit to this, in some ways. Some will take all the waifs and strays that can't get into other schools, or have been kicked out of other schools. Some of those students blossom in their last-chance saloon. Some will focus 100% on each individual student to make sure their personal potential is met, and for those students this makes all the difference. Some schools have large classes so can't provide such a personal touch, and again for some students, the tidal wave of the progress of their class as a whole is what drags them through their training.

Slagging off other schools just shows how petty and fragile your own position is. It's also quite unprofessional and not a good example to set for the future.

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Has anyone had recent experience with Airways Aviation? How do they stack up to the "big three" schools in terms of training quality and job prospects at the end?

[pfvspnf]

Weren't these guys going to recruit for Kuwait airways ?

[JamesDean]

I've got the same questions as you baron !

[WASALOADIE]

They didnt get the Kuwait Airways contract, CAE Oxford did. They do train Kuwait college students I believe.

[Flyer30]

I'm looking to join airways aviation in their EASA integrated programme. I'm indian and stay in India as well, so I'll be moving to the uk
can anyone help me out by providing any info about this school that I would not get on their site or by talking to them.
Also point me in the correct direction regarding my future opportunities in the uk and europe and the sorts

[BillieBob]

I hear a buzz that Airways are about to abandon Oxford and move all of their European operations to Huesca so I wouldn't make any firm plans to move to the UK just yet.