I am surprised at some of the stuff the RAF dispose off

[NutLoose]

Such as


Chinook Main Transmission Crane (http://www.vwinme.com/index.php/chinook-main-transmission-crane.html)

[Out Of Trim]

Hmm, I Agree, seeing as we now have more Chinooks than ever before, you might think we could probably find a use for this item!

Well, if it is serviceable that is! :ugh:

[onetrack]

Only the military can pay £150,000 for a engineer-designed, tested and certified, and regulation-approved aviation transmission crane - then use it no more than 12 times in 25 years - and then sell it at auction for £100. :ugh:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Probably a casualty of Resource Accounting and Budgeting; people being criticised for holding stores that seem not to be used. An item going U/S with no immediate replacement is now considered an acceptable risk.

[4mastacker]

GBZ wrote:

Probably a casualty of Resource Accounting and Budgeting;

Not the first time RAB has scored an own goal!! My unit had to dispose of a load of Harrier spares because we hadn't had any transactions on them for 6 months. Despite our protestations to the range "managers" at Wyton, we were ordered to send the kit to the disposal site. Within three weeks, some of the spares sent for disposal were required to satisfy 'D' states and I had to drive down to Somerset to recover the self same stock. When I collected the spares, they were still in the boxes they had been packed in when they left the unit together with the documentation I had signed before despatch. The price paid to the disposal company for the recovered spares was far in excess of what the company had paid MOD at the time of disposal. Still, it kept the RAB managers happy. :ugh::ugh::ugh:.

[Ogre]

Late one night on guard, we were randomly discussing the traits of the various trades who were present that shift. One of the guys was a storeman, who had spent some time at the big stores depot at RAF Stafford.

We had heard some stories about the wonders that were stored there, such as the story that between Stafford and Donington there was kit going back to the world wars "in case it was needed again" (Green goddeses were one such item) and we asked him to give us some idea of the stuff he'd seen.

His response was a bit of a tale, and started out that reminding us that there were three classes of stores, A,B and C (or as it was in those days). A stores were those items that were one-off issue such as kit bags. C stores were consumable items, and were never intended to be returned or replaced. B stores were lifed or exchangeable items, and you could exchange them either after a period of time, a number of uses, or if the condition meant they were no longer suitable for use. Most uniform is B stores.

In those days the members of the WRAF were still being issued with P.E. Kit, which included a short skirt and uniform issue knickers. As these were B stores they could be exchanged, and once exchanged like all uniform items they were sent to a central depot for disposal.

So there he was at Stafford, surrounded by bales and bales of used WRAF knickers, with the task of arranging disposing of them.......

It might have been a tall tale, but it made the shift go faster.

[Pontius Navigator]

4mastacker, quite. Needed a paint locker - cost £495 but none in stock so placed on demand.

Went to local disposal sales depot, 6 miles away, raised LPO and bought a paint locker for £100. After commission £80 returned to MOD.

Probably a bargain as the MOD had not had to bear the cost of moving it from one unit to ours :)

[Wander00]

then there were all those Harriers to the US...........OK. hat, coat..............

[smujsmith]

I was involved in setting up the Airframe bays for the Nimrod AEW3 at Waddo, many years ago. One item we received, brand new, was an OF4 based static hydraulic test rig. On opening the adaptor cupboard on the back of the rig, three trays of adapters were found, all in waxed and greased paper labelled Lancaster, Halifax, and Stirling as I recall.

Smudge :ok:

[Roadster280]

I was involved in setting up the Airframe bays for the Nimrod AEW3 at Waddo, many years ago. One item we received, brand new, was an OF4 based static hydraulic test rig. On opening the adaptor cupboard on the back of the ri, three trays of adapters were found, all in waxed and greased paper labelled Lancaster, Halifax, and Stirling as I recall.

Smudge :ok:

The Comet first flew in the 40s and some of the bombers survived into the 50s, so they were contemporaneous to a degree.

[smujsmith]

Roadster,

Agreed, and as my father in law was an ex 75 squadron man, he accepted with pride the tray of Stirling adapters, having served on Stirlings at Mepal in WW2. Now, I'm no expert, but were the Lancaster, Halifax and Stirling hydraulic systems OF4 (vegetable based oil) ? As opposed to the modern OM15 etc mineral based hydraulic oil. Anyone know ?

Smudge

[ShotOne]

Roll on the new generation of civil-based types...A330, P8(maybe!). At least the cost of spares and equipment is directly comparable with market prices which might just keep a lid on "think of a number" price lists. Ah but hang on, there's a sizeable civil Chinook fleet...oh well!

[Rigga]

As Laarbruch closed, a wardrobe-sized Steel roll-top cupboard containing approx. £6m of (secret) Harrier Flying Control Actuator test kit was sold by sealed bid to a local farmer for 50DM.
No-one had used the kit since delivered and the farmer needed a store cupboard!

[4mastacker]

Smudge wrote:

......but were the Lancaster, Halifax and Stirling hydraulic systems OF4 (vegetable based oil) ? As opposed to the modern OM15 etc mineral based hydraulic oil. Anyone know ?


According to this page, Lancaster hydraulic systems used mineral oil.

Lancaster hydraulic system - oil specification (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BP8pBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=lancaster+hydraulic+system+-+oil+specification&source=bl&ots=EH_zyOU_cp&sig=l-3w3Oz5HFRrEH4jp42iysqKT5Y&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HBSIVbqCGIGRsgHVr4PYBQ&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=lancaster%20hydraulic%20system%20-%20oil%20specification&f=false)


Apparently AeroShell Fluid 4 meets British Spec DTD585

Have a look here. (http://www.skygeek.com/60421.html)

I was only a stacker so I might well be wrong.

[smujsmith]

4maststacker,

Thanks for those links. The Aeroshell 4 hydraulic oil is in fact a "mineral" based oil, whereas the Nimrod used a "vegetable" based oilfield OF4 (Oil Fatty). As you link clearly explains that the Lancaster hydraulic system was mineral based, you have answered my query, and the static rig I was talking about had probably been converted to OF4 (Natural rubber seals as opposed to synthetic rubber) at some point, and the old adapters simply left in place. Thanks very much for the help. As for only being a stacker, we all had a job to do, and supply squadron looked after just about every function.

Smudge:ok:

[The Helpful Stacker]

I was only a stacker...

How dare you Sir. Stackering is a noble profession, if it were not for the vigilance of Stackers there would be a single Chief Tech somewhere with a locker filled with every spare in the RAF for his personal use, "just in case".

Stackers, there to protect techies from themselves.;)

[Out Of Trim]

Hmm,
Sounds like a good idea to have spares just in case. Isn't that the point!

To have spares ready to replace non-serviceable items immediately seems kind of sensible to me. :ugh:

[4mastacker]

Smudge wrote:

....As for only being a stacker, we all had a job to do, and supply squadron looked after just about every function.


My bold. Slight thread drift. On one station, we had a tee-shirt produced with a printed logo that OC Supply - clearly thinking about his future career prospects - banned from being worn on camp. The caption was "If flying was difficult, the Suppliers would do it". ;)

[NutLoose]

What was on the back...... Badly? How did you all resist the urge to fold and stack them. :p


OM 15.....DTD 585....Fluid 4..... Fluid 41.... Riggers blood......all one and the same.

[Wander00]

"Best trained workforce in Britain" - oh, no, that was Phase 1 redundancy 22 years ago

[4mastacker]

Nutloose wrote:

What was on the back....

Picture of a large 4-engined jet which had the main bogies re-drawn as talons, each of which were grasping a smaller, two-seater, single-engined jet. The caption underneath was "Well, that's breakfast taken care of." :)

[Fareastdriver]

In the mid-seventies I was on Puma squadron when our Mk3 helmet boxes were withdrawn and replaced with nancy helmet bags. Roughing it in the sticks a helmet box was invaluable as a camp bedside table to keep all your goodies in.

A couple of months later we had a dispersal exercise to a disused airfield where a hanger was occupied by Staravia; a used aircraft spares organisation. I was chatting to the bloke that looked after the hanger about flightworthy Goblin engines and suchlike that they had in store when I came upon a huge pile of helmet boxes. Two minutes rummaging around and then I found mine.

Clutching it like a long lost baby I asked him how much. He told me to take it as they were probable going to be burned.

Comfort was restored in the sticks.

[tucumseh]

To have spares ready to replace non-serviceable items immediately seems kind of sensible to me.

Used to be policy. Then they introduced "Not in Time". Overnight (on 13.1.88) it became policy to wait, as a minimum, the production lead time. This was later changed to the much maligned, but not quite as stupid, "Just in Time".

But in the interim many valuable and much needed stores were scrapped. The first such instruction was on Hercules Cloud and Clunk radar spares - over £3M worth were ordered to be binned and the contracted turn round time went from 7 days to 18 months. Multiply that by hundreds of avionic equipments and the waste was astronomical; and of course the spares had to be replaced but the Treasury refused funding as it had already been used, so had to be stripped from other parts of the defence budget. And infamously, as part of that "savings", our War Reserves were ordered to be scrapped just as we were gearing up for GW1.

The 3 Star chappie under whose leadership the policy was developed in 1987 used to post here.........

[romeo bravo]

Used to be policy. Then they introduced "Not in Time". Overnight (on 13.1.88) it became policy to wait, as a minimum, the production lead time. This was later changed to the much maligned, but not quite as stupid, "Just in Time".

Now a case of "just out of time"; kit and equipment arriving a couple of day late, if you are lucky :p

[S'land]

Only the military can pay £150,000 for a engineer-designed, tested and certified, and regulation-approved aviation transmission crane - then use it no more than 12 times in 25 years - and then sell it at auction for £100.

Oh I don't know about ONLY. What about the UK Government and the Royal Bank of Scotland - buy high and sell low.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Sounds like a good idea to have spares just in case. Isn't that the point!

To have spares ready to replace non-serviceable items immediately seems kind of sensible to me.

Well yes, yes it is. However, for the system to work, those spares need to be visible by the 'system'. There won't be enough of those items for every chief in the RAF to have a few in his drawer, so they need to be kept where those who oversee ALL of the requirements across the RAF can manage their locations and use.
The numbers set are not made up by loggies. They are determined by the engineering specialists and those responsible for the fleets, who are also not loggies.

Overall, the systems used to manage spares etc work very well, when they are allowed to work. Long screwdrivers, meddling, self-importance and the desire to be promoted seemed to be the reasons why it didn't work, and of course Engineers thinking they know better.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mr C H, actually do have an effect. E.g., years ago when there was a place called Harrogate, a woman (I would have said smart young lady but I can't now) rang me up. Now I was a lowly officer in Ops but she bypassed Command, Group, and Eng Wg, and said as how we had a standing order for some 20,000 cartridges per year but nil expenditure. Could she suspend the contact for that year?

I realised what was happening and suspended the order. Other than that woman at Harrogate, no one on the engineering or supply side had seen the problem. Indeed some chief on the other side of the airfield was probably wondering where to put them.

Now aircraft spares used to be calculated carefully at CSDE, IIRC, until we ordered the E3 in short order. Now an aircraft already in Service for many years, the manufacturer should know shouldn't he?

So we asked Mr Boeing for a truck load of spares. An opportunity of a life time and he cleared his shelves - mostly spares the USAF hadn't needed (at least that was the story).

[Mr C Hinecap]

Other than that woman at Harrogate, no one on the engineering or supply side had seen the problem.

That was the 'system' working. Irregularity spotted and dealt with because someone had visibility. A Range Manager earning their pay.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Early in my career when I had a "trade", as opposed to an "occupation". The PO sent me to stores to pick up a shackle. The bin rat behind the desk said "sorry no stock", but I could see one on the shelf right behind him so I said "why can't you give me that one"

His response, "Well if I give you that one I won't have one in stock". :rolleyes: :ugh:

[pkam]

It all works two ways, many years ago in a sandy location I received an order from an electric supervisor for some seals. I checked for a stock card (Pre computer days) and found found no record, informed said lekie who went ballistic
commenting on the parentage of myself and stackers in general and said he used these every day and had run out. When I asked where he had got them from he replied that when the Lightnings transferred from Khamis four years previously (Give away) he pinched them all from their stores and kept them in a box under his bench in the bay. As he left he threw the word W***** over his shoulder. Some seals were sent by company mail to tide us over.
After a couple of weeks and no further requests I asked him if they were still needed, the reply, "It doesn't matter now, I forgot I nicked two boxes".
I left him with the comment W***** in his ears.:ugh: