Eagle jet at it again

[pfvspnf]

1250 hours on the A320 in latin america, who is the operator?

I thought this was banned in that part of the world

[AMS]

lol...

there is desperation ....and then there is stupidity..... ->

1250 hours to be completed over 2.5 to 3 years! (35 - 40 hours per month)

Required to have 700 hours incl Sim...

Total cost 70,000 USD + Assessment

NO pay for the duration and after which you go out

Unsure if this includes Type and Base..

[worldoffe]

This is ridiculous ..

[pfvspnf]

No type rating or base check included ! Anybody know the airline ? This has got to stop

[go.around]

To be honest all the schemes are around the 70,000 plus mark the most i have heard from someone is 120,000 gave them a positive foxtrot oscar over the phone.

Pay2Fly is drying up there are less people doing type ratings as the word is out you are in a worse position with a rating than those without.

Wizz are prime they prefer no rated so they can bend them and bond them for three years and pay less than mcdonalds.

If anyone is stupid to pay and not earn for two - three years wow what has this world come to.

We should all stop and bring these companies to their knees and force them out of business by giving them no business.

The airlines will have to look outside and recruit properly.

Anyway one of my friends tried eaglejet and he was treated poorly in an assessment with ATLAS who were just failing people and taking the money for the privilege to sit in a sim and pay 3000 euros.

[romain2u]

someone who is the operator?

which country?

[go.around]

a nice round 87,500 euros now from wonderful eaglejet 500 hrs on A320 with a reputable european carrier...

Atlasjet .... charge 3000 for an interview and then fail you to claim the money from as many students as possible...good way to keep profits coming in.

[AMS]

Think of all those that signed up to pay to fly in Tunisia and on that now..... Stuffed.com

3000 for selection?

You pay that for a chance at a JOB??

A JOB which does NOT pay you anything more than 30k as a start!! - it's actually quite embarrassing.

A MacDonalds general manager earns 45k plus benefits......

food for thought guys- don't allow eagle jet to rape you of your hard earned cash.......

[go.around]

AMS think you are wrong ... the job does not pay you 30,000... there is zero pay during line training....


LINE TRAINING =

WORK EXPERIENCE YOU PAY FOR and GET NOTHING. THE AIRLINE GETS YOUR MONEY PLUS THE MONEY FROM THE PASSENGERS PLUS SOMEONE GETS A NICE BONUS AS THEY SAVE ON THE WAGE FOR A QUALIFIED PILOT... 6 MONTHS LATER NEXT SUCKER IN !!!!!

[AMS]

Go Around - sorry I meant any job as a pilot you are unlikely to make greater than 30 -40k average .....

Is that return really decent for a £100k outlay??

Medical risk - not getting a job risk - pay 2 fly etx

I used to be such an optimist before training as a pilot.....:D

[go.around]

AMS for the outlay of initial CPL and IR at a whopping 100k before the type rating comes on board and then the Line training you can expect to be close to 200k in debt.

CPL IR - Integrated - Average cost now 100K without expenses

Type Rating - 20k - (Plus the discretionary markup that people like CAE make heard close to 30k)

Line Training - 87000 - 12000 Euro's or USD depending who you speak to and what they consider the stable currency (Always Euro's as they consider it a more stable currency - YES that was an EAGLEJET Response. How all of a sudden they a US based company always charged in USD but now charge in Euros)

Imagine we all think it is only the line training companies scamming but the bigger boys are doing it also ..... CAE / CTC bending everyone over false promises and destroying aviation and placing people into airlines that should not be allowed to drive a car more or less be responsible for 160+ souls.

These org's are good for one thing making sure people pass and that is it .... i know people who should never be allowed to fly dangerous as hell but they got through and now bouncing airplanes on landings once or twice...

Then come the regions where people falsify hours and everything else with a nice little back hander to someone.

Hopefully All Captains World wide refuse to fly with P2F... and if the pilot industry wanted to really make it better for all why does everyone not just refuse to work for one day world wide lets see what would happen...

[P40Warhawk]

THERE IS NO GOOD EXCUSE TO DO P2F. Also not when you have a :mad: load of money.

Being a pilot is a job. You transport pax or cargo which means someone is paying the company to make revenue. For doing your job you should get paid. Not pay to work.

Sorry SWARM, there is no plausible reason to do P2F.

With this behaviour you destroy it for people who dont have the money but are potentially good pilots, but because they lack money they get never a chance. Now just rich kids, often very ignorant sit in that RHS , with often not the skills to be good a pilot. That is very dangerous. I of course hope that no disaster will strike, but some day it will happen.

Eagle Jet, MSD and other companies offering P2F are SCUM.

Check also stop pay to fly facebook.

At the moment a lot is going on against P2F.

If you really want to become a pilot, then you just dont give up searching. There are different ways to get into the RHS, but usually with huge divertion.

The question is, how bad do you want it?

In the company I work for we have now 2 pilots just started in RHS after waiting 5 yrs.
Being patient is the answer. If your not patient, then this job aint for you.

Taking ugly shortcuts doesnt get you anywhere. Thats just short term thinking.

[lansen]

Now just rich kids, often very ignorant sit in that RHS , with often not the skills to be good a pilot. That is very dangerous. I of course hope that no disaster will strike, but some day it will happen.

That is the most ignorant thing I've heard in the last couple of weeks. So what do you know about these so called unskilled rich kids? I guess there are a lot of rumors circulating back there in the cabin :p.
I know a fair amount of people who tried for 5-6 years without any success. Then they paid their way into the business. Today they work for Jet2, Emirates, Monarch and SAS.

At the moment a lot is going on against P2F.

Ah.. you mean the part where most EASA countries just concluded that flight safety isn't jeopardized? Rewrite your sentence again. I suggest something like "At the moment, most pilot unions are against P2F".

Taking ugly shortcuts doesnt get you anywhere.

Oh YES, it DOES. But there will always be jealous people like yourself around. That's of course unavoidable.



Don't get me wrong. I am very much against P2F. But there is, except for RYR, no real alternative.

[go.around]

To be quite frank even the ryans do a sort of pay2fly... they take money out of your packet for the line hours ..

Suggest people take a look at one of the brookfields contracts.

The situation as mentioned when waiting for 5 yrs is tough obviously you want to get in and fly but it is all down to personal circumstances.

Having an endless pot of money does not necessarily mean you will get what you want ... in fact it may just leave you open to more scams than most.

Patience is important ... a guy who was on my course still looking was told by a captain on his last LPC if you cannot find something then stump up for line training as if you do not someone else will. He did admit it was wrong and should not be this way.

But by doing this P2F crap you are allowing wages for pilots to be driven down and conditions to be made worse...

soon it will filter to some of the legacy carriers ... end of the day its about profit for them and none of them care about you that is the harsh reality of business.

If we all stuck together collectively and said no i am sure these agents would go out of business and airlines would recruit in a correct manner.

Instead people are making Eaglejet / MSD /SAS and then the scammers millionaires for doing nothing but forwarding a CV to an airline.

[go.around]

swarm

I think you need to understand flight reports from a lot of the schools are not a true example of a persons ability. I know personally people who got good marks not because they flew well but the instructors were not strict and airmanship was never bothered about. Then there were others who had lower graded reports but were definitely better pilots. If every student was marked to the same benchmark same examiners same conditions etc then the reports can be taken on board as a true indication.

The end goal is everyone wants to get flying.... however i think some of the guys are saying by doing P2F you are destroying the entry level into the industry making it not about ability but money...hence the rich kids comments that come out. If these kids had to work for their course fees, ratings and line trainings would they do this???? I think not ....

From your comments you do come across defensive of the rich kids rather than understanding the underlying comments.

Line training has worked for people to get into job 737 787 777 or whatever but one thing look at the carnage this has caused for people like yourself...

line training from 35k to now close to 120,000 .... what next more people do this and line training becomes 200,000 how many rich kids would pay then??

[AMS]

....... those p2f priced as such are pricing themselves out - the final salary even in BA is not worth an investment of 120k after CPLMEIR cost ......But there will be one punter who will find the cash - silly them.

I don't have a handout of cash as I earn my own and pay out of my own earnings - I would if it would help and only to realise the dream .......

OAA and CTC have with the help of EZY - MON - others have been monopolising the industry and discriminating against modular and integrated for years. Such is life

Why are the usual bashes not fighting against forcing people to provide their age/DOB on CAE website when applying for RYR.... It's totally illegal.......... Because we are suckers to accept the bulls@@t!

It's all discrimination one way or another - I am sure all those modular people who could afford intergrated and were able to do it - would if it helps them. Yet they can't and by the sole virtue rule themselves out of the back door entry - why?

It's about pure cash - if you don't have it - it's life - suck it up

Like here - if you have the privilege of money then you will climb the ladder quicker - if not - it's get back in the que.... It happens in other professions as well ie The legal profession, accountancy, Trading etc

Life ain't fair - aviation entry ain't fair and totally corrupt - but it is what it is....:mad:

I agree that in a collective we can make a stand - but all are only there for their gain.

Once you have a job you won't even have the time to speak to a wannabe - that's what I find....

So now the attitude - if you have it - flaunt it!

[eternity]

I'm not really in the first job and p2f scene, but from what I hear this damaging cancer is starting to die out....am I not correct???

Someone mentioned (many posts above) that p2f has not been banned by anyone.
Well that is true, but here in Asia most regulatory authorities (CAAC, CAAS etc etc) have STRONGLY advised against airlines taking p2f tourists on.

Also, I think most airlines have realised that the publicity fallout (if after an incident) when the media find out that one of the persons flying the plane was not a pilot but a tourist.........could be bad.

It seems that most airlines are realising the potential downfall is far worse than saving a few bucks allowing tourists to fly the planes.

Now as mentioned before, I'm not in the p2f or an initio scene so I'm definately out of touch but it did look like p2f was pumping a few years ago, but now it seems to be dying a slow and well deserved death.

However, I could be wrong...comments???

[AMS]

Swarm - I agree with you. Whether people like it or not - it is what it is- "money makes the world go round...."

people say money gives an advantage to get in as opposed to those who have the skill.

Well what about the internal guys in senior positions getting their daughters and sons in the back door through - recommendations ...... Sorry it must be ok for them - as it's "recommended" - still unfair and not equal opportunity. Yet accepted. Why?

[AMS]

It is what it is.

Probably should be spending more time searching for a job than discuss P2F.

:ok:

[Livesinafield]

Its not a job or a career if you pay to work...i personally cannot think of anything worse than paying to fly for my company, id jack it all in and do something else this job is just not worth all that! it really isn't!

[P40Warhawk]

:yuk:
PROGRAM PRICE
EASA A320 Type Rating Course including Aircraft Base Training + 500 Hours A320 First Officer: €93,500 EUROS



NOTE: There is no salary while attending the line training program and no guarantee of employment with the same partner airline upon program completion.

Seriously, someone is making a fortune with this. Try to make as much money as possible before this P2F is going to be banned.
93.5K for a program.

[Mike_Harrison]

The prices are getting higher!!

Pilots are really paying these amounts of money!!!

AMAZING!!!

[pfvspnf]

How do the TRIs treat their p2f candidates ? Are they allowed to do anything ?do they actually finish a line check or just do the radios for 500 hours ? How do you secure employment or pass an assessment afterwards.

Waste of money

[P40Warhawk]

I also know guys which did P2F and they also all work for good companies. Flying A320 , A330, B777 etc. In EU. So yes it can work, but the Ethics are wrong. Pay to work is ridiculous. Thats all I wanted to say ;) .

But hopefully some ban will come to set a hold to these practices.

[pfvspnf]

I know many many p2fers after eagle jet that are unemployed , witnessed one the other day fail the sim eval for a job interview.

200 hours plus 500 hours pay to fly is unlikely to get you a job

[pfvspnf]

They now offer 100 hours for 45.5kUSD and 200 hours on the a320 for 63.5kUSD , training done on the a320 or 737 at a " reputable airline close to Europe " hahaha