Hughes vs Gazelle

[Mike Bathurst]

Got a Hughes 500C, thinking of change to a Gazelle.

Discuss!! 😀

[Hughes500]

ex mil 341 or a civil 341/2 ?
former cheaper to run latter cost a fortune in parts unless a non EASA one
Have had both personally i would go with a 500D if you can find one then a stretched 342, then a tie between 500E and 341.

341 Against a C model 500

341 faster ( 125 ish ), carries more weight ( full fuel 4 pax ), 40 gal of fuel an hour, no leg room for pax in back
369C at best 120 kts carries less weight ( full fuel have to watch the pax weight ) 20 gal fuel an hour no head room for pax in the back

[Doors Off]

Blue Thunder, the only discussion required.

[BOBAKAT]

I fly only one time the 500 and around 2000 hours the 341/342...

But , if you want a really "sportscar" fly the Gazelle :ok:

Very fast and smooth and nice shape....;)

[rotornut]

But Blue Thunder is a highly modified Gazelle and limited to 100 mph.

[Peter-RB]

Performance, Power to spare and dashing good looks, the Gazzer will win every time, however a little more thirsty , and servicing a about **% higher than the 500.

Gazelle for me, if deep enough pockets..!:ok:

[Hughes500]

Don't know where everyone thinks the 341 is faster than a 500. My D model will comfortably get to 130kts every 341 / 2 struggles to get past 125

[311kph]

every 341 / 2 struggles to get past 125

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :=

[Agile]

This tread has started well but is becoming less and less interesting,
so I looked online: History (http://mygazellehelicopter.com/history)


a bit more information there about the gazelle heritage (development of the platform: Alouette II and III)


the published reference agrees on 264Km/h (140Knots) cruise and 310Km/h (170Knots) VNE


There is somewhere on YouTube a Gazelle doing 160Knots as I remember.


I think the interesting point is that both the gazelle and the Hugues500 are speed/ maneuverability leaders. Design wise it was obtain in different ways:
1_ the gazelle on one side, low parasite drag + fenestron + loads of power.
2_ The hugues500, a 5 blade rotor that enables less rotor diameter (faster NR), thus delaying advancing compressibility, retreating stall.


Am I on the right track?

[BOBAKAT]

"normal" cruise = 240 km/h ( but can be little be faster:oh:)

VNE 310 km/h

[Hughes500]

311

Well according to my log book I have flown 17 different 341's and 342 's the best one would get to 130 its straight and level and these were 342's
A 341 at IPS is 120 kts, at MPS it will struggle to get to 130 kts
At 81.3psi ( max cont) a 500D is around 135 to 140 kts

However all this depends upon blade track etc etc
Most 341's are happy at around 125 its as are 500's Much past that and you can feel the power through the airframe and they don't half drink the fuel.
If you have a 341 that will do 140 kts straight and level you have a very good one so best keeping it

[[email protected]]

The RAF ones at Shawbury were good for 125 at IPS and 135 to 140 at MPS. The Army ones at Wallop were heavier and slower.

[jellycopter]

I've not got vast experience on the 500, but quite a lot on the Gazelle. My angle is the they're similar in terms of top speed but the Gazelle acheives it in a more comfortable manner. I think the lightness of the hydraulic-assistance and for me, the better balanced controls, gives the Gazelle a significant edge - but at a price!

But I'm biased, I learnt to fly on Gazelle.

JJ

[timprice]

Comparing helicopters is very difficult, due to many factors.
Basically it comes down to personal preference, they all do some aspects of flying quite well, but there is no such thing as the perfect helicopter? Yet anyhow in my humble opinion.:}

[krypton_john]

Our very own doyen of all things rotary, Dennis Kenyon, has reviewed the Gazza and knows a little bit more about MD500 than most....

See p25:

http://issuu.com/loop_digital_media/docs/blades_march_2011_issue

DK, are you there?

[Flyting]

Like Timprice says, it's a personal choice. If you were going to use it as a working helicopter then the specs come into play. I personally like the look, sound and inside layout of the Gazelle and would take it any day over the 500. It might need a bit more elbow grease...but who said flying helicopters was a clean job...

[Dennis Kenyon]

Hi KJ ... yup I'm on frequency. I suppose IF we are making comparisons, one needs to compare the best of both types. Last September, I displayed MD's 530F model at the AAD, AFB Waterkloof near Pretoria. The C-30 630 SHP was giving me 'non-zoom' ROC of almost 4000 fpm! TAS at 5000 feet. (a couple of hundred feet AGL at Waterkloof) was 180 mph. I can't see the Gazza beating that my much if at all!

Not knocking the superb Gazelle but as has already been said above, I've fifty times more time on the MD so she has to be my all time favourite. I'm with Tim P on this one ... tis horses for you know what. Best wishes to all. Dennis Kenyon.

[Hot and Hi]

I suppose IF we are making comparisons, one needs to compare the best of both types. Not necessarily so. Cost could come into play.
I can't see the Gazza beating that my much if at all! If that means that a Gazelle is (almost) on a par with the MD530F then one could opt for the Gazelle simply based on purchase price (= insurance / finance cost).

A quick search on GlobalPlaneSearch.com shows 7 used Gazelles between USD 250k to 650k (year 1975 - 1980 mostly). Whereby a used MD530F would set you back at least USD 1.5m for an early model (around 1987).

[500guy]

At Sea level a 530F is not much if any faster than a D in cruise. The round nose is better aerodynamically and the extra 200 pounds or so makes a big difference.







My last cross country in a 500D I cruised in the high 130knot range at 70PSI all day long (with frequent fuel stops). If I wanted to push it to redline I believe I could have hit 156knot VNE in level flight

[RINKER]

A different comparison.
Looking at the Gazelle crash in Longford thread.
If he had been flying a 500 with its smaller diameter MR he might have
Got away with it !

R

[Flyting]

If he had been flying a 500 with its smaller diameter MR he might have
Got away with it !

let's try not encourage any more stupidity...:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[RINKER]

I wasn't being serious.

R

[Bern Oulli]

I know where there are a few Gazelle spares! Here. (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/helicopter-pilot-arrested-pub-crash-031450229.html#3slZ0KT)

[lamanated]

first off, how tall are you, I think anyone over 5ft 9 is cramped in a 500, no hyd's is a bummer also, the market is weak right now on 500's I find, I know someone thinking of moving on, and buying new, factories dont want the 500 as a trade even, 500's are getting hard to get parts for, I know of some that are several yrs backordered.

[nigelh]

Don't know where you get your info re 500,s !!! If they are so hard to sell then let me know where they are and I will buy them . I have just sold my 500D and it hasn't even finished its refurb ... Made a nice profit and looking for another one . Spares are no problem and I have always sold on for a profit :D
The 500 beats all others when you factor in ease to sell , cheap maintenance and insurance and no depreciation !!!!!

[500e]

Yes sold ours no profit but near free flying for 6 years
Could be tempted by one of those cheap ones :ok: lamanated
PS.
6Ft 1 Inch + Helmet never hit the screen, door frame getting in yes

[nigelh]

Yes sold ours no profit but near free flying for 6 years
Could be tempted by one of those cheap ones :ok: lamanated
PS.
6Ft 1 Inch + Helmet never hit the screen, door frame getting in yes

I'm 6 3" and fit in fine !!

[Hughes500]

Nigel H hopefully you will be behind me in the queue !!!
Next to impossible to find a good one at a sensible price. Bought my 500D for £ 160k in 1999 turned down £ 395 k last year for it, Lamented how many helicopters appreciate ? By the way I am 6 ft 1 wear a helmet no problem, spend 200 plus hours a year long lining, no problem. All parts are available from the factory, I use mine commercially so I should know
If there are machines waiting years for parts let me know and I WILL BUY THEM, cash waiting

[catseye]

Lamanated,

no problem in turning over 500's in Oz and NZ. All seem to be sold pretty quick. I don't work for them but.....Oceania-Aviation | Home (http://www.oceania-aviation.com/home.aspx) shift a lot. one operator on Oz east coast has a growing fleet and recently turned some over.

as for height with a long body and average legs I can sit in the front comfortably but can't wear a helmet in the back. :cool:

[500guy]

No problems in the US either, resale value is good. Very few airframes on the market. If priced reasonably they go fast. There are some parts issues. D/E T/R Driveshaft's is one of those, but we operate about 5,000 hours a year in 500s without more than a few days of AOG time due to parts lead times. We do stock significant spares, that helps a lot with the parts issues.