R44 'must have' options

[givdrvr]

In spite of the recent MR blade controversy, I plan on ordering a new R44 Raven I in the next few weeks. It is my personal belief that the new 505X will depress B206 prices, and I will transition to turbine in 2-3 years but I need a ship now, so I think flying a new R44 for 300hrs is reasonable risk/reward.

For R44 operators...what options do you consider "must haves"? Bubble windows, tinted windows, metallized sheafs,etc?

Thanks for your input!

[whoknows idont]

I recommend ELT.

[helicopter-redeye]

Floats.

More than one Nav Comm.

Nice first officer ?:E

[Hughes500]

A LARGE AMOUNT IN THE BANK

[nigelh]

A spare set of blades ?

[Cows getting bigger]

A chiropractor.

[stringfellow]

Id keep it as light as possible re extras. The 44 is a great ship but can I ask why if you intend to go turbine you don't do it straight away and save a load of money??

[givdrvr]

I debated this question over the last few months. In short, the mission doesn't require a turbine and will only last 5-6 years. Over next few years I believe, perhaps incorrectly, that lots of older B206s will hit the North American market as folks upgrade to the 505X. The fixed wing market experienced a similar phenomenon when the Columbia300/400 and SR22s hit the market in 2004-5 and suddenly market interest in BE58/C421 fell off a cliff.
I think I can safely navigate the MR issues for 200-300 hours then grab a B206 at an advantageous price for second half of the contract.

Chiropracter LOL:)

[krypton_john]

If you plan to fly 300hrs in 3 years why not by a cheap one with 300hrs and 3 years left on the rebuild 2200h/12yr then flick the hulk?

But even better, just buy a tidy well maintained 206B3 or 500D and be better off all round?

[Palma]

Givdrvr. Please send me a PM and I will contact you.

[n5296s]

If you're really in Socal then I would put aircon on the must have list. Most of my R44 time was in one that didn't have it (in the Bay Area). What an incredible pleasure now that the ones I fly do have it! And it's a lot cooler here (generally) than down there.

[Arrrj]

Raven II. Who wants to worry about carby heat ?

Aircon, for sure.

2 x radios.

Garmin 695 mounted on top of instruments. (Or whatever it is now, 795 ?).

Doesn't need anything else that you don't get already.

Floats ? Only if you need them, slows the ship down a lot.

Arrrj

[Soave_Pilot]

Definately NOT the bubble windows. They add drag and are worthless... besides that, they make the helicopter look like a bug, in other words ugly as hell.

[nigelh]

You are accepting you will lose a lot of value on your Robbo but I , and other friends of mine , have always made profits on re selling MD500 ,s and the C models are for nothing !!

[SuperF]

i would go the cheap JR/500 way as well. you wont loose money on it.

personally i dont think that the 505 will do much to the cheap JR/500 market when they start. it may reduce the price of a few of the newer ones that are still up there, but you are comparing a new $1m helicopter with a second hand $500k heli. And the 66 has already dropped into that market...

I think that the 505 will hit the 66, EC120 and cheap 350/407 market more, as it is about in that price range. the 350/407 market should be less effected, as if you were looking at a 505 or a B2/3/407 for the same money, i don't think that is a fair comparison, the only similarity would be the price. Totally different aircraft.

Buy a JR from your local Bell Agent, then take it back in 3-4 years to trade it for a 505. tell them that's your plan, should make them even keener to look after you!

[Hughesy]

life insurance :E

[787-1]

Buy a B206 now - the 505 won't have a bearing on the 206 market any time soon. Perhaps a small decline over a decade - but not overnight!

The depreciation on the R44 over the 2-4 years you own it will be far more than the B206 "price drop" over 10 years.

[SuperF]

Hughesy, can you get life insurance if you fly a 44??? :E

[heliduck]

Comprehensive tool kit.

[evil7]

Some sandpaper around a roll of quarters for the blade modification:}:ok:

[21lefthand]

I agree with Arrrj

Get a Raven II

[Paul Cantrell]

I fly about a half dozen different R44s in addition to an R66 and a B206L3. I like the Raven 1 in terms of purchase price, but depending on what you're using the machine for, I have to agree that the air conditioning on the Raven 2 is really nice. We have air in the LongRanger, but it takes so long to start producing cool air it's quicker to just climb to altitude. Conversely, the R44's cold air starts in about 2 seconds and while it won't keep up with the solar heat coming through the bubble down south (I'm thinking Tennessee etc.) it works very well here in New England and from the few times I've flown a -2 in Southern California it works pretty well there too. Still, the price difference to go to the Raven-2 is pretty high and we've had very good luck operating Raven-1s.

Id keep it as light as possible re extras. The 44 is a great ship but can I ask why if you intend to go turbine you don't do it straight away and save a load of money??

I think I'd ask "if you can do the job with the R44 why would you ever change to the turbine? There are certainly some advantages to turbines, but the operating expense of the R44 is half that of a 206 and it's 10-15 knots faster (if the 206 is on high skid gear it's about 15). I'd operate the -44 and pocket the difference!

You also avoid having to worry about how many cycles you're putting on the engine, no worries about hot starts, instant engine response when you need it, a much more powerful tail rotor than a 206, and a good useful load. Arguably more places that you are likely to want to land at sell 100LL than sell Jet-A... And, to your point about the 505, the -44 has the nice open cabin that the 206 doesn't have.

Raven II. Who wants to worry about carby heat ? I don't think the carb heat thing is a big deal, but if the air conditioning or pop-out floats are useful, then you're talking a -2 and another 100K... If you don't need them I'd save 100K and get a Raven-1

There's another point in favor of the -44 which a lot of people here might think of as a disadvantage. There are starting to be quite a few low time privately owned -44s that are starting to see the 12 year looming. There are some good deals out there because people want to sell them before they calendar time out. Some of those machines are really low time (lots of private guys only put 50 hours a year on their machines). So, if you're able to buy one of those and put a lot of hours on it in the remaining calendar years before the 12 year overhaul, you can get very low effective component costs per hour.

In any case, my general advice to people is "if you can do it with a piston you should do it with a piston, if you need a turbine for the job, by all means buy a turbine for the job. But it's a lot cheaper to use a piston if it will do the job".

As for answering your original question about what are the must haves... I don't like the bubble windows, or tinted windows. There's plenty of elbow room in a -44 and I'd rather have the extra speed. You can live with a single Garmin GPS/comm even though I think it's nice to have the second radio. Nice to put in some USB charging for your iPhone/iPad and an attitude indicator can be useful on those hazy days (but I've never felt like I needed a DG or turn & bank). Keep it relatively minimal, cheap and light... And make money with it! :E

[helicopter-redeye]

pop-out floats are useful, then you're talking a -2

You can retro fit the Dart floats onto a Raven 1 (if needed).

[givdrvr]

many thanks to all, esp PCantrell, I have appreciated all input both educational and entertaining. :D

[turboeddie]

i have owned an r44 since 06. with a great mechanic and a bit of luck i have flown 1,300 hours. nothing is perfect but the 44 gets the job done.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m537/turboeddie/IMG_1790.jpg

as far as turbine time and a little sunset flying the helicycle does the job. i have put about 80 hours on it since jan 14 and i would say say it is paying for itself on the hours i am saving on the r44.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m537/turboeddie/7EF45B86-8242-4F72-81CB-10122666787F.jpg

[500e]

Still trying to sell the HS ?