Yeovilton Air Day

[Sleeve Wing]

Back in the 60s I was an RN pilot on Scimitars.

Since then, I continued a fulfilling aviation career and, up until a few months ago, was still instructing , examining and doing a bit of airworthiness test flying for the CAA.

I decided it would be nice, before I got too old, to fly my Bulldog into VL for the Open Day this year and maybe bump into a few of my colleagues from the past.

I applied online for a Visiting Aircraft Clearance and was shocked to find that I was expected to pay £59.40 for landing/parking/Civil User Indemnity as well as VAT. Supposedly these are MOD charges !

So how is it that I can go to RAF Benson, practice a few ILS/PAR approaches, including sometimes "land off and roll" for about 10 quid ?

On top of that, I was advised that I must apply for an Admission ticket for the Display as well, having even brought in an interesting aircraft.

You do the sums.

The cost of 3 hours fuel for the return flight and then the rest, .........for 8 hours at VL .... and not even an ex-RN enclosure pass ?

Sadly I won't be going but am I wrong to be annoyed ?

[Tourist]

No, you are not wrong......

Try and contact whoever is running the display side of things (F?) and see if they are as usual short of statics. A bulldog, particularly if it is old RAF colour scheme might be welcome?

Then you might get Accom and fuel?

Might.....

[Sleeve Wing]

Thanks, Tourist.

Yep, it is in the standard RAF Training Command colour scheme and clean as a whistle.

Accommodation and fuel ?? For that, I might even give it a polish !

Wings, or FDO, are you on this site ?

[Lordflasheart]

Hey Sleevey -

Are you in the Squadron - FAA Squadron - Home (http://www.faasquadron.org.uk/) or the Association ? There might be inside influence.

OTOH you could just be passing by on a navex and find the engine is running ruff. Carb icing takes a while to diagnose and you can't leave while we have an airshow to run :E ...... LFH

[Mick Strigg]

I decided it would be nice, before I got too old, to fly my Bulldog into VL for the Open Day - It is not an open day it is a full blown air display open to the general public; the third biggest military air show in the country.

this year and maybe bump into a few of my colleagues from the past. - I doubt it, they too take a hurumph attitude towards the event: "why should I pay when I spent 12 years in the FAA?", well, I'm sorry, but even the families of those serving at VL have to pay to get in!

I applied online for a Visiting Aircraft Clearance and was shocked to find that I was expected to pay £59.40 for landing/parking/Civil User Indemnity as well as VAT. Supposedly these are MOD charges ! - Yes they are. There is a JSP that dictates all charges.

So how is it that I can go to RAF Benson, practice a few ILS/PAR approaches, including sometimes "land off and roll" for about 10 quid ? - Perhaps the Crabs are giving the JSP a damned good ignoring (as per usual)!

On top of that, I was advised that I must apply for an Admission ticket for the Display as well, having even brought in an interesting aircraft. - See paragraph 2 above. Bulldog interesting? It doesn't compare with the A10's and USAF C17 that are coming.

The cost of 3 hours fuel for the return flight and then the rest, .........for 8 hours at VL .... and not even an ex-RN enclosure pass ? - No such thing. Even the Wardroom enclosure has entrance tickets that the serving officers have to pay for.

Sadly I won't be going - You won't be missed, there is a fantastic array of aircraft at this year's Air Day and I for one believe that every penny spent on an entrance ticket is worthwhile.

but am I wrong to be annoyed ? - Yes. We no longer live in a "something for nothing" world and if you cannot afford to come (unlike others that spend hundreds on travel and hotels to be there) then don't bleat about it.

[BEagle]

Sleeve Wing, are you a member of the Fly Navy Heritage Trust?

If so, see RNAS Yeovilton International Air Day (http://www.fnht.co.uk/rnas-yeovilton-international-air-day.html)

If you haven't joined yet, perhaps if you did so, 'A Word' in the right ears might then be worth a try?

Your aircraft is probably more representative of the RN than any A-10 or C-17 - after all, hundreds of FAA pilots probably flew their first solos in similar aircraft at Topcliffe.

I can just remember the Yeovilton Air Show at which the 'soon to enter RN service' Scimitar first appeared. We were crossing the old road bridge from the car park to the aerodrome when this wonderfully noisy jet came hurtling across the runway, then flew a steep turn showing off the wing shape!

[Courtney Mil]

One would have thought they'd be grateful for someone wanting to bring them a static display without charging them. OK, I get that there are now expenses such as insurance, but asking you to buy a ticket? That's just plain churlish.

Air shows only have tickets to sell because people are willing to bring aircraft. Insurance aside and given that the air traffic controllers et al are there anyway when the airfield is open, what other expenses might they justify during an air show?

I remember this creeping in during a previous life at Leuchars. Sad time.

Oh, by the way, congratulations on your long career in flying and (if I read your post correctly) your retirement?

Also, it's generally considered bad form to bump into people (old mates or not) in your Bulldog at air shows. Or did I accidentally misunderstand you?

Good luck!

[Sleeve Wing]

Thanks Lordflasheart, Beags and Courtney Mil. I'll have a look at your suggestions.
Yes, I've finally retired, CM, after first flying an Auster in 1954.

Mick Strigg ? Well, what do I say to someone who has no discernible profile ?

>>> Sadly I won't be going - You won't be missed, <<<

That's right, Mr.Strigg, I probably won't be missed. We're from a Fleet Air Arm era of fixed wing pilots that the Government has chosen to deplete to the point of extinction.

>>> - Yes. We no longer live in a "something for nothing" world and if you cannot afford to come (unlike others that spend hundreds on travel and hotels to be there) then don't bleat about it. <<<

Bleating is not the term I would have used or even the suggestion of a "something for nothing" world, a period no doubt during which you were probably brought up.

I was prepared to revisit a place where I spent rather a lot of time making my limited contribution. I was prepared to pay, and contribute again, for the privilege.......but not a
ridiculous amount. As has been mentioned, I don't require a lot of ATC assistance or even take up a lot of space. A simple, uncomplicated return was all I had in mind.

Btw, as you'll probably have the last word, note that I don't intend to waste further argument with someone of such ill-conceived, egotistical views. Just remember, if it wasn't for some of us who have participated in the past at various air shows, you wouldn't be having your "full blown air display". Enjoy your day. :ugh:

[Tiger_mate]

Flying training attracts big discounts which almost certainly applies to your experience at Benson.

Regarding Yeovilton Air Day - the display organisers are contracted in although there are some uniformed staff on the team. The landing fee fiasco you encounter is driven by the MoD not Yeovilton or the display organisation. A waiver can be given by the MoD if the Stn Cdr asks for it. This is useful if your aircraft is worthy of static display.

There have been various incarnations of fees at displays in recent years the worst example being that the 'RN' read as MoD, charge landing fres to the Vulcan at an horrendous rate to display at their own event. Multiplied as Vulcan operators wished to operate locally to Swansea and return for another set of landing fees.

The RAF took a pragmatic approach to this at Cosford that concluded with all air show associated aircraft enjoying an MoD waiver; but it took staffwork, and the organisers at Yeovilton are civilians.

As for benefits to veterans. As has been said, locally employed Servcemen get at best discounted tickets for family and friends. It is not an 'Open Day', it is a busines.

The Army & Navy get 50% discount on RAF assets for displays. The RAF do not! Go fiqure that one!

FWIW I would have put you in the static park, no fees nor costs, given you some accomodation, and a gesture towards fuel costs ie 50ltrs. But I do not work for Yeovilton ;-)

[Rosevidney1]

What has happened to our over-taxed, over-regulated armed services? Have they become an additional revenue gathering service? The admission charges for air displays are simply extortionate. See how they manage in France when the taxpayers can see where their money goes.

[david parry]

No charge for these boys;) SW
12 Scimitars of 803 Sqn (Lt Cdr P. G. Newman) and 736 Sqn (Lt Cdr J. Worth).

[Tiger_mate]

US Air Shows have free entrance.

Austerity and the by-product of SDSR means that recruitment no longer features in the needs of the Service.

RAF events charge for both aircraft displays and associated insurance to the tune of many thousands of pounds. RAFAT cost 10k ish with insurance. Each station is effectively a Plc and if partially civilian have to budget for overtime at weekends. Airshows must be financially self-sustaining to survive. Sponsorship is hard come by these days. MT fleets are not an iota of their former selves so Hire Cars are required for events. The Traffic Management, First Aid coverage, and Civil Police all cost huge sums of money. There is no RAF/Navy Fire Service these days so Defence Fire coverage for a weekend event involves double time salaries paid out of the airshow 'gate'. You soon get a handle that can-do attitudes and goodwill pretty much does not exist these days. The Civil Service pull the purse strings at inflated rates, and often mandate resources (in other words a monopoly).
If the RAF pulled the student workforce away from RIAT; there probably wouldn't be a RIAT.

[Rossian]

.....both arrogant and dismissive in tone of Mick Strigg's post - "P77s off you boring old fart, who cares whether you come or not. Who cares whether you served in the FAA a long time ago. So what!"

I do hope that was not posted by a uniformed member of the "team" at Yeovilton. If it was a member of the "contracted in" bunch I do hope someone takes him on one side and tells him his fortune.

The Ancient Mariner

[Tiger_mate]

He left the RN in 2013.

I know of the two full time civilians on the Yeovilton Team; and neither are so rude.

[Misformonkey]

The event has been co-managed by a civilian event organisers for the last 10+ years, IMO they are looking after one interest, and it's not the MOD. A change is needed.

[Hangarshuffle]

Fraid he's got you bang to rights really Sleeve wing (Tiger mate and Sprigg). Come on! Sixty quid ain't that much to land and park your plane up and saunter around, it still has to be guarded and all the other things mentioned etc. And yep everyone pays for admission to the event-even ex FAA Officers!!
Perhaps yours and others reputations go before you (snooty attitude perhaps that paying is only for little people, or a tightness for money)? Its backfired totally by 2015.
And I'm sorry,but re-reading your post again...your expectations were wholly unrealistic of the present era.

[Compass Call]

I think that 'Mister' Strigg needs to go and get a life.
The one he has is very sheltered :ugh:

[Sloppy Link]

Try
NAVY [email protected]
There may or may not be a space between NAVY and YEO

[ancientaviator62]

After the French allowed us to put our newly restored ex ALAT Piper Cub back into her 'war paint' we were invited to the French Air Force display at Cambrai. All we had to do was get there and put it in the static park. We were given 3 nights B and B and a car and the a/c was filled with Avgas for our departure. No we did not have to buy a ticket ! Oh and we were also invited to the beer call as well.
The French Airforce ground crew who saw us in were very surprised to see two RAF officers getting out of what to them was a French Army a/c.
Great weekend.

[typerated]

According to the Air Day website there will be a Yak 52 and a Chippy on static.


Why not a Bulldog too?

[Sleeve Wing]

Thank you, Tiger Mate, for your measured and informative reply.

Times do change, sometimes not for the better.
Unfortunately, the future of our Armed Forces is no longer a priority. Civilians, without a clue about defence, have taken over.......even Air Displays.
As an American politician recently said, the UK is no longer a big player in world events. Even France and Germany are considered more reliable in their support.
Fortunately, I probably won't be here to see the outcome. Having been brought up during WW2, I am just concerned for my kids' future. Then we could defend ourselves....just.

Sorry about the thread creep.

[Mick Strigg]

Thank you Hangarshuffle. I'm glad that there is at least one other person that understands the reality of the defence world we live in.


I may have been harsh in my reply, but as an ex-FAA type myself, I expect nothing and am pleasantly surprised when I get something. It is much better for the blood pressure than the other way around!

[Rossian]

....I'm pretty sure that most of the folks in here are aware of the realities of the services at the moment and it saddens us all.

It wasn't what you said it was the way you said it. That's all.

The Ancient Mariner

[Courtney Mil]

I may have been harsh in my reply

No, I wouldn't say so. Unnecessarily arrogant and unpleasant, maybe. But then that's just the opinion of a "Crab" that you probably won't miss.