What's In A Name

[Old-Duffer]

Throughout my time in the RAF and various bits of the reserves, I have always had a name tag on my jackets or pully. Recently, I was told this was no longer acceptable (except on certain training courses) and my little collection of blue name tags now resides in a drawer.

At about the same time, I noticed the new RN working dress has a name badge on it. In addition, most aircrew wear their flying badge on their 'growbag' and this usually has a name or nickname as part of the neddlework.

It seems incongruous/illogical for name badges to be removed from blues but still carried on flying overalls and for one service to introduce (perpetuate) name badges whilst another is removing theirs.

It all smacks of the annual change in the neckline/weave of the wooly pully.

Thoughts?

Old Duffer

[P6 Driver]

Standardisation would be nice across the services, but then the argument could be that there's no room for individualism within a service.

When I was serving I'd have been happy with one standard uniform model to be used by all three UK services, with the particular service being identified by badges, using the same format for positioning.

[Fluffy Bunny]

We did have that standardisation at one point with CS95. I remember being issued almost more badges for my "greens" than I ever did as a cub or scout!
RAF breast tag, Name tag, Union flag, RAF TRF, Unit TRF and a DZ flash for being a signaller.

[BBadanov]

When wooly-pullies came out, there were no badges worn on them.


Then the bomb disposal people demanded they be allowed to wear their badge on the sleeve. Hmmm,,, ok.


Then it was mandated that aircrew must wear their wings on the wooly-pullies - remember that? c 1980.


Aircrew were reluctant, but orders is orders....

[Wander00]

What is the logic behind no name badges, personal security?

[Courtney Mil]

Logic + Military = Oxymoron, Wander.

More likely the whim of a VSO who never liked them and has finally got his chance to make a significant, forward-leaning and valuable change to the Royal Air Force. Or maybe a VSO who feels his staff don't have enough to do and thought this would be a good chance to keep them occupied with a bit of paperwork.

[MPN11]

Memories of the Dymo Tape name tags we all wore at Manby in the mid-60s. All in various colours ... Station Staff, CAW Staff, Refresher Studes, CAW Studes, Spec N and Staff N studes and probably a few others I've forgotten.

Mine was a tasteful blue, and it still in a box of cr*p stored in a cupboard upstairs ;)

[Rossian]

....I hated wearing them. Once when challenged by a lady W/C as to why I wasn't wearing one I held out my hand and introduced myself to her and said that I would do the same to anyone else who wanted to know my name (and even on some occasions if they DIDN'T want to know it). She was less than impressed I have to say.

The Ancient Mariner

[Davef68]

Or it's because the Air Force is so small these days everyone knows everyone else anyway.

[Roadster280]

We of the Royal Signals have had name tags since I joined in 86. Pretty much the only Army Corps to mandate them Corp-wide. I don't know why though!

Taken as a Corps, there were too many people to know everybody, even in one's own trade circles. But in a regiment, or squadron, everyone knew each other. I didn't mind the combat jackets, shirts and woolly pullies, but it looked bloody stupid on the hemet cover when the Kevlar ones replaced the battle bowlers.

[TBM-Legend]

I memorised my name tag and put it back in the drawer!

[54Phan]

Well played, TBM!:D:ok:

[Old-Duffer]

TBM-Legend,

That ranks with the:

RSM: "Why is your name badge upside down, soldier?"

Soldier: "So I can see who I am, Sir"

O-D

[54Phan]

At work, sometimes I wear my nametag upside down as well, as it is the international symbol of distress.

[kaitakbowler]

I took a dislike to name tags, can't tell you why just did. My last unit (Henlow) was the only one where I was required to wear one, but I routinely "lost" mine, I always knew the names of the people that mattered and and if I didn't I asked.

PM

[Wensleydale]

FOD!...............

[Roadster280]

I was strolling along the main drag in camp in company with my buddy, Sid Davies. Along comes the RSM going the other way.

"Cpl Davies, where's your name tag?"

"Obviously I don't need one, Sir".

And he got away with it! On that day anyway.

[Pontius Navigator]

'Twas in mid-60s, we much admired the USAF name tags, pin fastened with a clutch and white lettering carved in fetching blue. We git 'orrible white badges, safety pin and dump tape.

Next someone sourced a bit better one, white plastic with black lettering, but design and wearing was very much a station thing. Anyway we really didn't need a name tag on working dress as we all had security tags.

Anyway, Bomber Command decided uniform tags were a 'good idea' (promote that man) and bought their own machine. It was decreed all officers would wear a standard blue and white WITH clutch pins. Officers were billed through mess bills IIRC. They were met with universal acclaim :(. They were a darker blue than the later version.

[Courtney Mil]

Charged to mess bills. You couldn't make it up could you?

Good post PN:ok:

[smujsmith]

One man who never needed a name tag was a certain Hercules Ground Engineer, one M*** L***y. As a fellow GE at the time, I often found it useful, when confronted with commissioned disagreement to glance at the name badge (usually a Dave or Fred) and then reply, yes sir, whatever you say !! I doubt that name badges have any use beyond making old farts like myself look as though they have a reasonable name retention capability.

Smudge:ok:

[Danny42C]

When I was in flying training on the "Arnold" (US Army Air Corps) Scheme in WWII, we had little frame brooch badges with a set of printed name cards in three colours - red, blue and white. This was necessary for the "Aviation Cadet", as his status was important in determining the way he was treated by his fellows at each stage of the three Schools (Primary, Basic and Advanced), which would take place at three separate locations. Blue denoted the "lowerclass man" and Red the "upperclass" (or was it the other way round?) It worked like this:

Supposing I had been a US Cadet. My Primary Course at Carlstrom Field, Fla. was 8 weeks long, with an intake every 4 weeks. On arrival on "42C" Course, say, I would spend the first 4 weeks as a "lowerclass man", which allowed me to be mercilessly bullied ("hazed"), without any redress, by the "42B" men on the last 4 weeks of their Course there.

My consolation was that, after 4 weeks of ritual humiliations, my tormentors would be posted away for Basic Training, where they would be the underdogs again (behind 42A). I would now be the topdog at Carlstrom, and expected to inflict the same sufferings on 42D as I had received from 42B.

With me so far?

Leaving Carlstrom, I would become in turn the underdog at Gunter Field, Montgomery, Ala., where I would be at the mercy of 42B again for 4 weeks ....and so on and so forth. So the colour of your badge card made a lot of difference! Naturally, we Britsh "cadets" (LACS actually) would have nothing to do with this cruel and senseless system, but the problem remained at the "interface" between the last AAC Course (41F?) and the first RAF Course (42A) which followed.

To say that frictions developed would be an understatement; the story was that at Carlstrom, the first (42A) RAF contingent banded together and set upon their oppressors, there was a riot, we prevailed (perhaps the opposition was unnerved by this unexpected reversal of what they regarded as a Law of Nature), they and all their kit were thrown into the swimming pool, an armed truce followed and "hazing" was suspended TFN.

And I have not a shred of evidence to support this story, but merely tell it as it was told to me. Oh, the white cards? - they marked the "washouts", poor pariahs who were spared further torment in the brief time before they were bundled off the Base.

Bit too long, but the story has to be told.

Danny42C.

[reynoldsno1]

Never ever wore a wooly pully, thankfully - still had two sets of No.2's we were allowed to wear until they 'wore out'. Much neater. Never wore a name badge on any bit of kit.

[BEagle]

When the wretched woolly pully first sprouted wings, I heard that it was AS the result of a less-than-serious letter to Air Clues from a Vulcan captain at Sunny Scampton.

Someone took it seriously and thought that it was a good idea....and the rest is history.

I remember being issued with the original 'official' RAF name tag - it looked cheap and tatty compared with the USAF model. But then so did the rest of our working uniform, apart from No 1 HD.

[BBadanov]

- it looked cheap and tatty compared with the USAF model.


And you haven't even talked about the crap flying suits we had!!
Not to mention the "cold weather jackets" in lieu of comfortable, stylish and practical flying jackets.... OMG


I think we were issued with all that sh!t because no-one would ever consider misappropriating it !! And no-one from a foreign air force ever wanted to swap it

[teeteringhead]

One remembers when they were introduced - the white on blue ones - at a secret Hampshire helicopter base in the early 70s IIRC.

It was decreed from somewhere on high that only 2 initials would be allowed. Shortly therafter the Staish, one John Arthur Guiness Slessor (aka the lesser Slessor!) appeared with all three of his initials on it.

Cue incandescent rage by one Flt Lt - the late and much lamented Charlie Chubb, who had four initials; CJET. I think in the end he sourced his own (with all initials!) in beautiful downtown Basingstoke!

[Tankertrashnav]

Sorry to hear Chas Chubb is no longer with us. Did a course with him at Catterick c 1967 - top bloke!

I liked name tags - could never understand why people didnt want to wear them. On a big station with 3 multi crew flying squadrons it helped greatly in putting a name to a face. We also had very nice plastic nav bag tags which showed your name and rank followed by "Tankertrash". Wish I still had mine, though I still have my "one ton budgie" badge.

I always knew the names of the people that mattered.

H'mm - so there were people who didn't matter? How did you define who mattered and who didn't?

[Courtney Mil]

The barman and the lass in handbrake house that was processing your claim?

[BBadanov]

The barman and the lass in handbrake house that was processing your claim?


Actually, if you had known their names, it may have ensured better service!

[Courtney Mil]

No, you have me all wrong. Those were the people I was suggesting may have mattered.

[Onceapilot]

Danny, a great tale!:ok:
Never had any problem with wooly pully....regularly replaced FOC, far better than Dildo jackets!:ooh:
Whatever, Aircrew should be be mostly wearing flying suits (with badges)!:D

OAP

[BBadanov]

No, you have me all wrong. Those were the people I was suggesting may have mattered.

Oh, apologies CM. Very early in the morning here...up early to watch Aus thrash WI in the 1st Test.

I still remember our barman at our RAAF O/M in Vietnam 45 years ago...universally known as "Harry the Barman". Ex-RAF in fact.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

I must admit that it didn't bother me one way or the other.It did,however, seriously bother my wife when she was "given" her namebadge prior to a ladies cocktail party to meet the wife of the incoming AOC. It was cheap tatty and stated "Pasty W/O Flt Lt ** ****". Apart from her name being Patsy she considered her marital status and the rank of her husband as immaterial with regard the cocktail party.
She was right and didn't wear it. (1970's RAF Germany)

[Wander00]

That's nothing - should have been on the other end of the relatively new Mrs W's fury when RAFH Ely wrote to her through the GPO mail not as Mrs W, or even Mrs W, w/o Sqn Ldr W, but as just "W/O Sqn Ldr W": as she said it could easily have been the previous Mrs W!

[Danny42C]

Romeo Oscar Golf,

Same idea was used on the name boards in front of the grass widows' bungalows in the cantonments in old India, e.g. : "Mrs (W/O) Captain A.B.C. Snooks".

D.

[Old-Duffer]

Tanker TN,

Chas Chubb was killed whilst serving with the Australian Army in an accident involving a Chinook IIRC (TTH will put me right if that's not correct).

He had been one of the air staff advisers to the dark blue chap running CORPORATE. By one of those quirks of fate both Chubb and the fixed wing oppo advising same man, were killed in flying accidents.

Chubb is commemorated at Alrewas but also on the Support Helicopter memorial at the secret base in Hampshire.

Old Duffer

[Tashengurt]

Just occurred to me. I don't think I ever got asked my name when it wasn't for a form or a bollocking!

[teeteringhead]

O-D and TTN (TTH will put me right if that's not correct).

Almost exactly correct mon brave.

The Chinooks (CH 47-Cs) were then still part of the RAAF rather than t'Army, Chas was on exchange with No 12 Sqn RAAF, then based at RAAF Amberley in Queensland.

Chas hit wires at the Perseverance Dam, near Toowoomba QLD, on 4th February 1985. His life-support machine was unplugged a couple of days later.

Following the wishes of his family, a number of his organs were used for transplants, so just maybe the Chubb kidneys are still processing the amber nectar somewhere dunnunda!

Don't know if it still bears the name, but the Amberley OM patio bar was renamed "The Chas Chubb Memorial Bar" :ok:

The wires and pylons had apparently been painted green - to pacify the tree-huggers........

[Tankertrashnav]

Thanks for the info on Chas Chubb, guys. Better to be killed doing something you love than linger with some horrible disease. Great guy:ok:.

Always strange to discover someone you knew but had lost touch with had died years ago. Similarly I only heard about "Hector" Heathcote being shot down by a SAM many years after the event, once again on this forum. He was another former buddy from the rotary world - a stalwart member of our Sunday lunchtime "curry club" when we were at Kai Tak in '68.

[brakedwell]

Once upon a time there was navigator on 511 squadron (Britannias), lets call him Fred Bloggs, who could honestly be described as a real character. All name tags for the Britannia fleet were sourced from Changi Village, so a 511 crew member on a Changi slip was detailed to buy a large batch of F. Bloggs name tags. At an appropriate occasion (I think it was an inspection) all navigators, plus several pilots on 511 became known F Bloggs.

[Wensleydale]

...which brings us back to a previous thread about fake names on name badges to be worn on detachment to protect the guilty - one just had to remember that one's name was "Willie Eckerslyke" (or similar) in the O Club for the duration of the det.

[Old-Duffer]

TankerTN,

Re your post about Hector Heathcote.

From that era at Kai Tak, a few others who have departed are: Eric - Whinging Sid - Shelmerdine, Pete Presley, John Black, Tom Taylor and from your pre-Nav days: Chris Feek. The Staish - Rex Williams, Alec Leggett, Doc Reid, Brian Johnson, David Hughes, 'Batchy' Brown, Dick Steed, Tom Grace.

Old Duffer

[teeteringhead]

O-D
absolutely hate to question you again, but surely Tom Taylor is still with us?

I'm thinking the Geordie with an enormous moustache, or was there another??

[Old-Duffer]

TTH,

This one's Sunday name was: Ernest Robert Taylor and he was flying XR477 on 30 Oct 69, when he flew through some overhead cables in the New Territories. I think the one to whom you refer is a genuine Thomas.

IIRC, the man you're thinking of went 'rotary' in about 1965/6 but was also in the Far East. He didn't have a 'tash but Phil Bleasdale did!!

O-D

[Tankertrashnav]

Really sorry to hear about "Sid" Shelmerdine O-D - another stalwart of the Sunday curry club. Didnt he lose his sight at an early age? Chris Feek and I shared a Ford Zephyr MkII convertible at Seletar - that front bench seat could tell a tale or two ;)

(I hasten to add we were never in the car at the same time!)

[Old-Duffer]

I didn't know that Eric lost his eyesight, as our paths never crossed after Kai Tak but it must have been about ten years ago that I learned that he had died.

Chris Feek was also sadly very young when he left us in about 2002.

O-D