ATPL Motivation.. and reduction in effort/technique

[Scoobster]

So I have been working on the ATPL's and I finding the motivation levels are a proving to be difficult combined with working full time.

I feel like I am doubling up on effort in my ATPL preparation and wonder if there are any tweaks that can be applied.

Here is the process which I use:

1) Read through each chapter and make 'pen' notes - for example Chapter on Atmospheric Pressure - totalled 22 pages.

2) Attempt the workbooks

3) Repeat process for next chapter.

4) Type up notes (this is where the double effort comes in)

5) Attempt question bank on chapter(s) just studied.

6) Review score and get shocked at how low I scored on Met/M&B in the QB due to the wording of questions, yet scored 90% above on the school online question bank.

How can I improve on the above technique?

Feel like this is taking ages and motivation can dwindle!

Ta!

[Eavr]

No doubt it is not an easy task.

What worked for me was to follow the study plan (I was with ProPilot).
Read every chapter and made notes on it.
Then practiced questions on the chapter only. I did that for every chapter until finished the books and continued with the question bank.
Went through each question twice. Flagged the ones I was not doing good and then practiced on the flagged questions only.

If I could not remember something or understand it, I used the OAA ATPL CBT ( great learning tool) and tried to find on the internet various publications, videos, etc.

Keep up the good work and do not forget it is just a challenge!

Regards,

[Scoobster]

Are the Oxford CBT's the same as the 'online only material?

I have looked on bookdepository.co.uk for some preloved ones - but may enrol on the oxford online only.

What is taking the most time though is going through each damn book and note taking etc..

[liam548]

Oxford Airline Pilot Training Software for ATPL (http://www.flightstore.co.uk/dvds-training-software-c346/oxford-atpl-training-software-c357)




much quicker than reading page after page and the animations assist greatly.

[Transsonic2000]

I'm absolutely with you, Scoobster! Keeping up the motivation is one/the biggest challenge during the ATP studies. And I know how frustrating it can be I you find yourself, once again, being behind schedule! As a consequence I've frequently thought about my studying system and how to make it more (time) efficient. Unfortunately there is no general rule that can be applied, since each individual learns/studies differently, a thing that worked well for someone doesn't necessarily work well for somebody else.

But here is what I noticed while looking at your "system" and by the way, when I started with my studies I did it exactly the same way like you're doing it, but I came to the conclusion that it's too time consuming.

1) Read through each chapter and make 'pen' notes - for example Chapter on Atmospheric Pressure - totalled 22 pages.

2) Attempt the workbooks

3) Repeat process for next chapter.

4) Type up notes (this is where the double effort comes in)

5) Attempt question bank on chapter(s) just studied.

6) Review score and get shocked at how low I scored on Met/M&B in the QB due to the wording of questions, yet scored 90% above on the school online question bank.Steps 1 through 4, are quite time consuming and at some point (down the road) you'll notice that your notes are probably too detailed (too extensive) and not that beneficial when hitting the question bank (QDB), since the QDB puts the emphasis on different areas which aren't always adequately covered in the textbooks, meaning textbooks and question database are two different pair of shoes.

Here's what I did, but as I mentioned before, I don't know if it'll work for you. I mainly focused on working with the QDB and made my notes accordingly (don't get lost in details)! What helped me a lot during my studies and I found being some kind of "time saver" as well, was the Oxford DVDs (ATP).

ATPL (http://www.caeoxfordinteractive.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=60_68)

the following link might be useful as well:
http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/562129-atpl-theory-reading-order.html#post8992735

good luck!

[cavok_flyer]

What I found helpful is going through the QDB, the ones I know, answer. The ones I do not know, leave. All the wrong and unanswered question -> Google (is your friend) the exact wording . Usually end up on atpforum.eu (GREAT JOB GUYS, btw!) with an explanation ~110% better than any text book, and work it out from there. I also have a Excel table with the formulas that I often forget.

I only have M&B and FP left to do on the 22nd of June. :)

[Scoobster]

Oxford Airline Pilot Training Software for ATPL

Agreed but i already paid for text books so want to keep costs down...

May buy a couple to suppliment the material.

[Scoobster]

Thanks for the 'system' input.. T2000.. I will see what I can tweak..

[pudoc]

Is the chapter on Atmoshperic Pressure 22 pages, or are your notes 22 pages? If it's the later I'd say you'd need to focus less on the details.

I think you can afford to not type up your notes, in my experience typing things up puts me in 'autopilot' and it doesn't help me take it in any more. It's nice to have the notes tidy... But as you say the more you drag it out, the less motivation you will have!

What I did is go through the manuals, making notes on big picture stuff. Then just hit the QB, referring back to the manuals to help you. Don't dwell on the manuals, there's too much to learn.

Good luck!

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Just think how difficult it was without access to the/any question bank.

We actually had to know each subject pretty well and sometimes that helps on the line.

[Scoobster]

Is the chapter on Atmoshperic Pressure 22 pages, or are your notes 22 pages?

Sorry I meant 22 sides, 11 pages...

I suppose I am a details person, that's just me, I like to see the details and understand and learn the content. I did this with my PPL too. Went through each of the books because I felt there may be major gaps in knowledge if I didn't 'understand' the theory and material.

I am probably learning that with ATPL there might be a better technique...

Will revisit this shortly and see how I am progressing over the next couple of weeks.

All input until then is welcomed.

Thanks!

[Transsonic2000]

I suppose I am a details person, that's just me, I like to see the details and understand and learn the content. I did this with my PPL too. Went through each of the books because I felt there may be major gaps in knowledge if I didn't 'understand' the theory and material. It's not about understanding and gaining knowledge at the ATP exams, for that the stuff is far to extensive and it'll turn into a never ending story, and as a consequence you'll give up sooner or later!!! The ATP exams are solely about passing a test!!! Not more and not less!!! The main objective is to find a method to deal with it in the most effective way, that's the challenge! Those who master it will make it all the way thorough the exams, the others wont! I just took may first part of the ATP exams a little over a month ago, if I'd have to retake them today, I probably wouldn't pass a single subject! Keep in mind, once the exams are passed the mission is accomplished, nobody is going to ask you ever again such weird questions about ELR, DALR, grid nav, LORAN-C, etc.!

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/561137-learning-objectives-questions.html#post8970443

[pudoc]

I suppose I am a details person, that's just me, I like to see the details and understand and learn the content. I did this with my PPL too. Went through each of the books because I felt there may be major gaps in knowledge if I didn't 'understand' the theory and material.


I was the exact same, but unfortunately learning the content and passing the exams are different ball games.

My ATPLs were years ago, and I still dug the manuals out this evening to read up on some Met stuff!

[Reverserbucket]

I read this thread in utter disbelief. Is this why the standard of theoretical knowledge of F/O's on the line is typically so poor. I knew it was a race but have we really reached the bottom already? Not just following the magenta line then...it goes deeper than that.


What has this job that was once proudly called a profession become?

[Scoobster]

I suppose everyone will have different views.. but I am trying to go for the "in depth" learning approach vs 'quick pass' system - but there are also some valid points above.

It would take an age to get through on an understanding basis - but you can always pick up the books to review gaps in knowledge if you pass the exams sharpish?

[paco]

Yes, currently the exams are regarded as merely a hurdle to be gotten over. With the JAA exams, there was maybe a 10% excuse for this as 20% of the Learning Objectives and the questions were simply either unnecessary or wrong, respectively.

But the other side of the coin is that many people are simply expecting their licences to come out of a cornflakes packet, i.e. with the least possible amount of work, possibly due to the unrealistic expectations generated by the modern education system.

The easiest way of reducing the work required to study is simply to be interested in it, and if you are not, then aviation is not the career for you. If you regard the exams as just a hurdle, then they will be exactly that.

With regard to the in-depth learning approach - of course it will take more time. Many of you will be getting other licences around the world at some stage - the best advice I can give is to learn as much as you can in the early stages then you are in and out of the future exam rooms as quickly as possible and not learning yet another set of dodgy questions every time.

[DirtyProp]

I read this thread in utter disbelief. Is this why the standard of theoretical knowledge of F/O's on the line is typically so poor. I knew it was a race but have we really reached the bottom already? Not just following the magenta line then...it goes deeper than that.


What has this job that was once proudly called a profession become?
A scam. That's about it.
Students are scammed by schools and easa to part from their money for absurd exams, and later by airlines to pay to get their type-rating.

[cavok_flyer]

@ Transsonic2000 (http://www.pprune.org/members/130057-transsonic2000) What ?!? You mean I don't have to carry my polar stereographic charts around with me? ;)

[paco]

There's nobody scammed at this school thank you very much.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

It would take an age to get through on an understanding basis - but you can always pick up the books to review gaps in knowledge if you pass the exams sharpish?

I did zero to ATPL in 54 weeks with NO question bank and NO feedback, as did all of my course mates. I actually had four retakes (my excuse is utterly shambolic questions and answers, thanks JAA) which I did during the final two months of flying school. And that included getting massively pished every Thursday and missing most of Friday morning ground school. ;)

So not impossible or an age.

[Scoobster]

I did zero to ATPL in 54 weeks with NO question bank and NO feedback, as did all of my course mates.

I would be interested to know how long ago this was.. and in that statement there appears to be a implication that you were on the integrated course?

Zero to ATPL theory .. or zero to atpl theory plus CPL/ME/IR?

Anyway I got the oxford cbt's today so will crack on!

[Transsonic2000]

Anyway I got the oxford cbt's today so will crack on!Good buy! You'll love them, like most people do, including myself, they are very well made! They will save you certainly some time, as compared to reading the textbooks - which you can sell now anyway!

[kingsult]

I passed the ATPL exams in 6 sessions. Looking back, I made a lot of mistakes but managed to learn along the way. I studied while working full time with younger kids. It meant that I needed to squeeze in every moment I could use.

I used a combination of Computer Based Training, 2 question banks (which I started way too late), Youtube videos and summaries found online. I tried to study in the Oxford books, but I abandoned as the CBT worked well and was tracking the progress.

My key advices would be:

Use spaced repetition
Use multiple question banks
Understand the way the exams are taken and what to expect
MOST importantly: visualise the end goal. Passing the 14 exams seemed endless and I got through by keeping the eye on the finish line.


Good luck to all.

[605carsten]

Basically NONE of the QBs are in line with the questions asked for the exams. Buy alot of different ones and get accustomed to the strange and non-english wording,grammar, phraseology used. In the FCL you can find the Learning Objectives which tell you how EASA define certain things (which at times, goes against reality) Alot of the questions are written by non-english speakers from easa countries and run thru Google translate it seems..

Remember, the ATPLs are merely a motivational hurdle to weed out the non-commited wannabes.. alot of this stuff I have never used in my 28 years of flying professionally.. #justsayin..