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mymatetcm
19th May 2015, 17:27
Former RAF Tristars to take flight again. AGD SYSTEMS will be operating (6) Tristar L-1011 aircraft that were previously in service with the United Kingdom - Royal Air Force (RAF).

AGD SYSTEMS Corporation Announces Capabilities with Addition of Six (6) Tristar L-1011 Tankers for Aerial Refueling, Cargo and Medivac Missions - PR.com (http://www.pr.com/press-release/620065)

12 twists per inch
19th May 2015, 17:35
TrIStar - the worlds best airfield denial weapon ;-)

19th May 2015, 17:49
Shouldn't it be AGED SYSTEMS ???;);)

knarfw
19th May 2015, 17:49
The 6 remaining TriStars are not all tankers or am I misreading something?

TOWTEAMBASE
19th May 2015, 17:49
That's good news. At least they aren't going to be coke cans

TOWTEAMBASE
19th May 2015, 17:56
It says 4 NATO AAR and 2 cargo/pax medivac

knarfw
19th May 2015, 17:59
Yes, see that now. 706 was the only C2 to be scrapped, (C2A to be more precise I suppose).

stilton
20th May 2015, 08:51
Believe it when I see it.

GroundStart
20th May 2015, 09:01
Forgive my naivety, but is there really a market for Civie companies to deliver AAR/AT in such a capacity, Air tanker aside. Open to be corrected.

A and C
20th May 2015, 09:08
In the UK we are very good at self criticism and very open about the problems with operating our equipment, in the USA the attitude is very different with people keeping the company line and working behind the scenes to sort out any problems. I am guessing that the L1011 is not as bad as some on this forum would paint it and for this reason is not a bad investment for this work.

Other factors may well be, the parts supply chain in the USA will be good with the large amount of L1011's that have been withdrawn from service, the Americans will be much more street wise in procuring parts than the UK MoD, suppliers of services won't be able to hike the price of services like they do when it is a military contract. ( I know of one supplier to the UK MoD who adds 300% to anything supplied to the MoD).

Add to this the less restrictive operational attitude of a civil operator than the 6 covering will this decision effect my career attitude of some in the military and this L1011 operation stands a good chance of being financially viable.

BEagle
20th May 2015, 09:20
Groundstart wrote: Forgive my naivety, but is there really a market for civvy companies to deliver AAR/AT in such a capacity, AirTanker aside. Open to be corrected.

See: Omega Air Refueling (http://www.omegaairrefueling.com/vms/) !! They've been providing commercial AAR for far longer than has AirTanker.

Out Of Trim
20th May 2015, 09:38
It would be ironic if AGD, can offer AAR to MOD far cheaper than AirTanker do now!

What should MOD do? Spend more for the same product? :ugh:

Lordflasheart
20th May 2015, 09:50
Quote:
Forgive my naivety, but is there really a market for civvy companies to deliver AAR/AT in such a capacity, AirTanker aside. Open to be corrected.
See: Omega Air Refueling (http://www.omegaairrefueling.com/vms/) !! They've been providing commercial AAR for far longer than has AirTanker.


Not just bread and butter tanking either, but kinda cutting-edge too. An Omega K-707 tanked the unmanned X-47B on April 22. First ever Autonomous (means - Not remote-piloted) UAV AAR - Probe and Drogue - Plugged in first go - connected 11 mins + and took on 4000lbs +. ...... AWST cover - May 11-24.refers.

ORAC
20th May 2015, 10:14
The civil entrepreneur will take a few weeks and say why it can be done.

The military bureaucracy will form committees, take 2 years, and say why it can't be done.

Which is why Elon Musk is doing so well and why the big corporations go to to Burt Rutan for one-off prototypes and designs.

Martin the Martian
20th May 2015, 10:15
In the UK we are very good at self criticism and very open about the problems with operating our equipment, in the USA the attitude is very different with people keeping the company line and working behind the scenes to sort out any problems. I am guessing that the L1011 is not as bad as some on this forum would paint it and for this reason is not a bad investment for this work.

Other factors may well be, the parts supply chain in the USA will be good with the large amount of L1011's that have been withdrawn from service, the Americans will be much more street wise in procuring parts than the UK MoD, suppliers of services won't be able to hike the price of services like they do when it is a military contract. ( I know of one supplier to the UK MoD who adds 300% to anything supplied to the MoD).

Add to this the less restrictive operational attitude of a civil operator than the 6 covering will this decision effect my career attitude of some in the military and this L1011 operation stands a good chance of being financially viable.

Well, there are a lot of Tristars in desert storage areas which will be a source of parts for AGD to call on. Best of luck to them, and I'm glad the aircraft will keep flying.

Bigpants
20th May 2015, 10:47
So when the new PFI driven Airbus has another mishap, camera problem etc MOD will sub charter the AGED TriStars to take up the slack?

At one level I am glad the TriStar fleet is gone because it was very old I just have my doubts about using PFI to replace them, sorry for thread creep.

Fortyodd2
20th May 2015, 11:21
"What should MOD do? Spend more for the same product?"

Isn't that their usual MO?

Skeleton
20th May 2015, 11:45
They all need cockpit upgrades don't they? That won't be cheap I imagine.

Miles Magister
20th May 2015, 12:05
They could always get Marshall's to do the cockpit upgrade!!!!!

Sook
20th May 2015, 12:24
Move over Vulcan - here comes Tristar To The Sky! Now where did I put that lottery fund application form...

Gsxr600
25th May 2015, 11:27
They all need cockpit upgrades don't they? That won't be cheap I imagine.


I don't see why they need cockpit upgrades, it would be a nice to have but can't see why they couldn't be operated as is. It's probably going to be expensive getting them certified for civil use as they have had 30 years worth of mods. Over a year standing outside at Bruntingthorpe in the cold and rain wont have done the electrics any good either, although they have had anti-det runs every month.

Self Loading Freight
25th May 2015, 16:54
When I was in a line of work that sold stuff to, inter alia, the MoD, we doubled our price too. And stopped bothering, after a while, because even with that premium it was still uneconomical to do business with that mob.

We were a small outfit, but I know the same to be true elsewhere for much bigger concerns. I knew a senior manager from one company that made radio equipment who said they baled from a major contract because change orders came in so fast and were so badly thought out it was impossible to get any units through production. Didn't matter how much they charged, they simply couldn't do the job.

Gsxr600
26th May 2015, 12:33
Wow, scale that up to a major procurement like a new aircraft and its not hard to see why we end up where we do.

More lookout
26th May 2015, 16:30
"Tristar, the airfield denial weapon". What a great saying, especially for anyone who's done a FI tour. IIRC 706 was known as Damien.

Wander00
26th May 2015, 17:06
Aah the 216 Quiz Team at MPA (before everyone else arrived) - always called "If we don't win, we won't fly you home". One week we did, and crept out very quietly with the winnings, under the scowls of the contractors' people