EK Pay Review

[haveago]

All very quiet on this front..

[Panther 88]

Because nobody really cares anymore. There is an apathetic cloud over EK at the moment that will in all probability never be removed.

[MosEisley]

AAR still believes all pilots in the world want to work here. That's why there have been no significant improvements over the past half decade. He is still in place and nothing has changed. Don't expect something big to come out of this announcement, if anything at all.

[Snake man]

Agreed, Mos

Historically when they do give, they give with the one hand and take with the other...cost neutral, or so it seems.
Expect a small increase, dressed up as a big one, and a corresponding change to bidding/FTL's to offset the cost.

[Rim-job]

Any guesses on the announcement date? Historically is was shortly after the Profit Share announcement. Last year we were delayed a month (for no apparent reason).

Any guesses for this year? I'm thinking another month delay (even though they've had 12 months to think it through) to which we'll get our usual step. Kinda like they did to us last year.

Same old $hit.... :ugh:

[BobDole]

The only reason they delayed it last year was the runway problem. Why would anyone tell their employees they would be getting :mad: again during a critical time when they needed everyone on-side with the operation. Frankly it was a wonderful idea to delay the announcement until the problem was almost resolved! :E


Is this the last Thursday before the payroll cutoff for this month?
I think they will announce it quietly in an email this afternoon that we will get a 4% increase in pay including a step. I believe it is a requirement to make it vague enough that we think we will get more.

[Rim-job]

Good point TOGA...

I'm betting along those lines. This afternoon around 15:59 and TCAS will push send.

Fun times.

[glofish]

Well, it has not been quiet. An article was tactically placed in the Gulf News Business part three days ago: It said that the companies in the UAE seemed to be "reluctant" to give their employees a raise although it would be deserved. Apparently they don't want a racing spiral to erode their ever mounting profits.

Now we know that when it goes for a race to the bottom for UAE workers, EK employees are set equal to all other UAE employees and certainly not part of the pampered and teflon coated government employees.
But when it goes for a race to the top for UAE workforce, EK employees then are suddenly semi-government workers and not to participate in this hike and, mind you, not subject to UAE labor law!!
Huge increases for government employees however then push us down to normal UAE workers again, and so on and so forth .....

The article seemed to me to prepare us that there will be no increase. They will up the package for newbees, but not for us.

[alwayzinit]

Ladies and Gentlemen this is your captain, my name is ......

Firstly let me welcome you to our flight today. I am sorry if any of you are upset by the sight of the crew all holding mugs of Costa coffee, sadly it is needed for us to get through the day.

Please show a little consideration if you happen to come across a sleeping member of the crew during our flight today, they were probably working on the other side of the clock to what they were doing yesterday, but you will be glad to know that it's all legal and approved by our senior managers.

If you hear or feel a vibration during the flight, do not be concerned, it is probably someone taking some controlled rest and snoring. Though please to highlight this in your comments online as we will get said crew member into our sleep lab to provide data for our endurance program.

With that I would like to wish you a relaxing flight.

Keep recovering all.

[MosEisley]

Step only and over time back to 78, that way it seems like a raise but really just gets us back on track from 2009 but still way behind on inflation. Won't keep anyone from leaving who was planning to and won't entice anyone who wasn't already looking. No improvement in QOL, we will still work to 90+ with min days off. 330/340 guys will not benefit at all. The beginning of the end.

[donpizmeov]

I am pretty sure that a few of the grown ups don't just get together at Costa on thurs arvo to work out our pay review. The 1st May effective date is probably also known, as it has been that way for the past 17 yrs at least. So it would seem our pay review has gone the way of our rosters and leave. Held back as long as possible to ensure the power of the muppet tower is fully understood.

I wonder if an auto sent warning letter is sent to those concerned from the chief pilots office as happens if you are late with your pre PPC study?

No matter what the review says, be it good or bad, the timing of its release speaks volumes for the way of the future.

I really don't think they can help themselves. They have no freaking idea.

[Saltaire]

Incredibly disappointed with the lack of communication. Second week in May has always been the time for pay review details. Not even an email outlining when?

[falconeasydriver]

What are you all complaining about? You are lucky to have this job, there are plenty who can replace you, you already steal days off from the company, if you don't like it leave.

[SOPS]

Yeh...bloody lazy pilots!

[SOPS]

Sorry TOGA, I meant it as support, not as an insult. Remember, i ave been there and done that as well. No offence was meant.:ok:

[falconeasydriver]

TOGA, fair enough, my post was not meant in any way to be a slight on our colleagues or your good-self.
Sadly, the ship to redemption here has already sailed, the cultural cancer (downward spiral) towards this place becoming GFA 2 is well advanced, the policies to put certain passport holders in positions to make decisions far beyond their cultural, intellectual and competency skill set will continue this process apace.
Yet again we see that living in the corporate and cultural bubble of zero accountability merely reinforces the dogma that we all see and deal with on a daily basis, to live in hope for positive change is an exercise in futility and foolishness.
The continued policy of contempt and punitive undertones is deliberate and calculated, it is a corporate employment management strategy that gives rise to all the disengagement and resentment that continues to fester unabated.
Goodluck, I only have a few weeks left in this phase of my life, and I will refrain from posting anything other than the occasional cheeky comment on here from that time.

[Desert Camel]

I think only a return to 78/80 hours would be a significant change, along with less constraints in our rosters.

[SOPS]

At the risk of getting a mailbox full of "stop posting" messages, can I assure you quality of life increases by about 100000% when you leave.

[vfenext]

It's great to see you're not even a little bitter.

[fatbus]

Be prepared to be disappointed

[The Turtle]

fatbus I fear you're entirely correct. Had it been a package they were proud to offer it would have occurred last Thursday.


I will cringe when I click on the pay review email from fleet

[harry the cod]

And when you do cringe, why not spend 10 minutes of your time writing to AS & AAR expressing your disappointment, rather than sending the frustrations onto PPRune. When this Company receives a thousand letters from pissed off pilots then, and only then, are things ever likely to change around here. Frankly, there are just too many people unwilling to put their money where their mouth is. And don't even start with the excuses of fear and reprisals, your caveat has already been printed on the portal for you, by AAR himself. They're in such a mess right now that to be called in for a 'chat' for writing a letter, when the EVP has invited your opinion, would indeed be the final nail in the coffin.

Personally, anything less than a 5% basic pay rise plus the 3% increment would be a joke under the current circumstances. I'm optimistic that figure will be achieved. But then again according to some, I have been on the Kool Aid for the last 14 years or so!

Harry

[Emma Royds]

Those hoping for something to cheer about will probably be disappointed. Management will not want it to appear that us pilots have corralled them into a corner and that they feel compelled to give in to what we feel is sorely needed.

I chatted to one of our colleagues who had AAR as a passenger on board very recently and the man himself said we had no problem with recruitment and that there was a steady supply of Boeing and Airbus pilots from Ryanair and easyJet, waiting to fill the ranks.

Whilst we all know that AAR is the village idiot, he is certainly not going to suddenly give in and allow himself to look like one, by doing a U-turn on what he has been openly saying.

[nolimitholdem]

At the risk of getting a mailbox full of "stop posting" messages, can I assure you quality of life increases by about 100000% when you leave.

No way! Never stop posting, you give a thin ray of hope! :ok:

Only the jealous and self-justifying would post hate mail. Ignore, and enjoy watching the slow-motion train wreck you escaped.

[oz in dxb]

Does anyone know the years of service when the cutoff for the 3% applies?

Cheers,

Oz

[harry the cod]

Ask HR, get them to earn their keep. Why they stopped publishing the scales 10 years or so ago I'll never know. It's part of our remuneration package so you'd have every right to ask the question.

Harry

[Dropp the Pilot]

The top at present is 60,090. As an alternative to calling HR and having no one answer the phone, you could work that back with a calculator.

[Rim-job]

Dropp

I'm good with math but what formula are you using might i ask?

From what I can see, there is more formula involved then just take the top pay and divide. If so divide by what?

Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to find the easy way that you are alluding to. :ok:

[donpizmeov]

There are 30 steps. Length of time to get there depends. Being frozen on steps a few times has delayed most. Chaps like drop have had the total of a full 0.5000% pay rise in the past few years.

[donpizmeov]

Rim,


Get your pay, multiply it by 1.03, note answer answer. Repeat.

[MosEisley]

I honestly think it's too far gone already. Even a massive pay raise wouldn't stop people from leaving who were already planning to nor would it attract anyone who wasn't already interested. They have left themselves with nothing to sell. Come to EK and we will pay you below market rate and work you to the legal max. Who would do that now?. If pride cometh before the fall, they are due for a big one. Part of me wants to stay to reap the benefit of their desperation when they finally do realize how well and truly screwed they are. Removing AAR is the first and long overdue hurdle on the road to recovery but I fear their hubris will blind them to the bitter and rapidly approaching end.

[Kernow 101]

Rim

Its in the 'Emirates Private Forum' someone has gone to the trouble of doing the math for you each year here...

http://www.pprune.org/emirates/451452-salary-scales-2010-2011-a.html#post8523873

[flareflyer]

AAR and STC don't have any intention to change for the better our contract.
I believe that they really don't think the situation is so bad.......

[knifedge]

- the Health is going with the flying

- the families are splitting as they dont have enough quality time together

- insufficient physical and mental rest.

Ideal formula !!

[helen-damnation]

Kernow 101

Its in the 'Emirates Private Forum' someone has gone to the trouble of doing the math for you each year here...

The link only works if you're registered for the forum. Can you cut n' paste please?

[fatbus]

The sooner people realize EK does not care about your QOL the sooner you will understand where you stand in the lever of importance to the company . Max productivity is the goal. Management motto is and will always be. , if you font like leave . They could care less about you.

[Calmcavok]

They could care less about you.

I'm not sure that they could...

[knifedge]

Lets don't forget that, conceptually for them, the only difference between us and the volvo dirvers (with all respect) is the salary ...

Then supply and demand applies...

[harry the cod]

Helen

Or you could actually make the effort and join the group if you work for Emirates. More appropriate I think than asking someone else to post personal details such as pay scales on a public forum.

Harry

[lospilotos]

As they have set the profit target for next year they "must" have a budget and such already decided on the pay review. 2013 it came on May 15th..

[helen-damnation]

Harry,
Some details quoted in the EK jobs section so, imho, not a lot to give away and hardly something the other locals won't know.
As for the forum, yes I could but I do have issues with someone else knowing who I am but not the reverse. Paranoia rules :O

[harry the cod]

HD

Fair enough. Have sent you a pm with the individual's details. At least that way you'll know who the EK moderator is and can then make a more informed decision about joining us!

Harry

[Kammel]

Harry,

I'd like to join but have the same concerns as HD. Maybe you could PM me too...

[glofish]

And why would these details not be available for all EK pilots on here?
Maybe because of the same considerations we have why not giving our details to the EK forum?

After all such details were revealed to management from pprune in the unmentionable's case ......

I honor the effort, but i doubt the control.

[White none please]

Harry any chance you could pm me with the same contact info, I've tried to join 3 times without success / response , not sure what I'm doing wrong.
Thanks! WNP.:sad:

[Fire Ball XL5]

I've tried several times myself... after 8 years.. without success... gave up in frustration... (like most other things around here....)......:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[harry the cod]

Ladies and gents

The moderator does not want his details passed on. Not sure on the whole ethics/set up behind this but I respect his request for anonymity.

What I can say is that he has been with the Company for some time and is trustworthy with integrity. There are no 'management' pilots on the forum and you need to apply with name and staff number. He matches them up and should give you access. Ironically, using the EK dedicated forum is actually better in my opinion, almost like a private club. The posts too are more reasonable and fact based rather than some of the more emotional rants that we sometimes see on the public forum.

As George Michael once sang......Oh you gotta have faith...

Harry

[Sheikh-It-Easy]

Pay review letter arrived on the 15th of June in 2014.

[The Zohan]

after having received this on May 22nd

Dear Colleague,

The recent annual results announcement saw the award of a 3-week profit-share payment, to be paid in your May salary.

For you, May is also normally the time we announce any changes to your specific pay elements This year no decision has yet been made as work on the review is still ongoing. This means the only change you will see in your May salary will be your profit share payment.

If any other changes are approved they will be backdated to the date they normally take place. This will would be the 1st May for any specific pay elements and the 1st July for other pay and benefits, which also apply to the wider staff in Dubai.

I will keep you updated.

Kind regards,

Alan

tz

[General Dogsbody]

Has anybody had a wash up this week and asked about the pay review? We are way too quiet as an employee group! Is it any wonder there is no respect?

[Rim-job]

Good point GD,

Anyone with a washup meeting this week able to shed any light? Surely this was brought up in discussion.

[120feet]

My guess is, they budgeted receiving the interest on the money they get by delaying pilot pay raises by one month as this affects someone's "Under budget bonus." , and have now made this delay tactic an SOP. Also, a rumor is brewing, that OT threshold will be lowered to 85-87 hours. If this is done it would be great, but completely screw the hardest working drivers the (330/340). Again. :rolleyes: EK should also add pay for every day off less than 12 to acknowledge this. Also absolutely needed is credit for training and vacation. Until this happens lowering the threshold does little in the way of good faith or justice. IMHO

[Desdihold]

120....
Reducing the threshold to around the 85 mark would be a start but as a pilot group we would need to calculate our true hour,y rate.

The best way to calculate your hourly rate it to take your base pay and housing value divide that by 80 hours or so and then add the current flight pay (per hour) on top of that.

I know it's hard to calculate the true value of housing but it does need to be included in order to come up with a true hourly rate.

The reality is that the company will probably offer a discounted hourly rate when we exceed the threshold for that month, this is what they do now.

You points are valid and my reply is part of an on going conversation.

[Plane_Sailing]

The problem with lowering the overtime threshold is that the swap situation would go from very difficult to impossible!

[Mr Good Cat]

Also, a rumor is brewing, that OT threshold will be lowered to 85-87 hours

Never, ever, EVER will that happen. On the wash-ups the senior management have been suggesting 100 hrs per month 'temporarily' due to the upcoming shortage of drivers for the period 2015-2016. Then a return to 92 when/if it stabilises. Whether that estimate accounts for any increase in resignations is anyone's guess. There certainly won't be any scope for leave.

My guess is a rise in the order of 5-6%. EASA FTLs coming on line in 2016 will allow for the increase to 100 hours per month, meaning we will really be earning less for the amount we fly. Remember time in the bunks will not be counted soon.

Enjoy... Anyone who thinks they will get a better deal this time round is delusional. :ok:

[fatbus]

Totally agree!

[redkite1]

Housing costs? We are about to cost the company a lot less when we all live in Meydan, maybe then we'll get a 'pay rise'.

[donpizmeov]

Unless the increase is only on the basic and not on flight pay we are screwed.

[littlejet]

Sadly, our anus has been "conditioned" for this eventuality...after years of abuse..
New joiners... "pftttt"...., expect NO SYMPATHY when YOUR day arrives!...
GTH

If you disrespect your colleagues expect the same from management.
You have every right to post whatever you think is vital information prior to one's joining but cursing out someone who made a decision which you maybe wouldn't is unprofessional.

[Mr Good Cat]

If you disrespect your colleagues expect the same from management.
You have every right to post whatever you think is vital information prior to one's joining but cursing out someone who made a decision which you maybe wouldn't is unprofessional.

It's just a sign of people venting anger. Don't take it personally. People tend to speak with vitriol on the Internet when perhaps they wouldn't on the flight deck.

[anson harris]

To be fair, they talk a lot of **** on the flight deck as well...

[ByeByeDubai]

I will accept the retorts when they come but pilots as a whole and particularly in this company must carry some of the responsibility of the twisted system now in place.

Remuneration should be a function of hours worked for the company. Not hours with the engines running. Does anyone accept that work is not being done because the aircraft is not moving?

Likewise fatigue is a function of hours at work amongst other things - like when the work occursi n the diurnal cycle.

Some basic principles could solve many of the current issues:
1. Accurately account for time at work.
2. Roster to a duty threshold short of a duty limit and then pay overtime.
3. Have realistic limits. 190 hours in 28 days is a farce. No one in EGHQ is expected to do those hours, much less at any time of day. 55 hours may be tolerable in a week but the maximum over 28 should not exceed 140 hours. 35 hours on average per week is a normal 40 hour week discounted to allow rest for diurnal disruption.
4. Pro rata the duty and remuneration in a roster when leave occurs. This is the most obvious flaw in our current system.

Never would they do this I hear you cry.

Well I agree to some extent however some of these principles should be argued. Why do we accept 92 hour rosters that include leave and training? Why do we accept duty starts an hour before departure when the sign in clearly says otherwise? Why do we accept that time in a simulator does not get accounted in flight time? They are zero time simulators. Why do we accept so many other easily arguable things?

Pilots worldwide have accepted the nonsense and facilitated the status quo. I roll my eyes when someone complains of a 95 hour roster. He has bought into the whole fight hours myth. It could be a dream roster if the duty is not above 110 hours. Yet we propagate the stupidity!

Here we have a feedback process. Hell, we can write to the President by invitation! How many have done so and pointed out at least one or two of the irrational issues involved in our rostering and remuneration? Have you even written to anyone a bit further down the ladder and at least produced a written trail of the law bending and financial discrimination?

It gets raised again and again in various forums but that is deniable and unrecorded. Make the effort to put it in writing at whatever opportunity arises. If a mere 10% of the pilot body did this there would be change. 20% would terrify the upper floors.

Don’t complain if you don’t have the intellect, resolve or guts to do anything about it.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle"

[dubaigong]

ByeByeDubai


I am 100% with you on that one , each time a guy complain on the flight deck about the company I ask him always the same question " What have you done about it ? "
The answer is ALWAYS " nothing , we don't have a union here " or " I don't want to be in trouble " etc...
So I tell him to stop to complain if he is not ready to fight for it.
Too many pilots expect the others to do something for them with always an excuse for not doing anything themselves ( they have a family to feed , a mortgage to pay etc... )
If you are not ready to ACT stop complaining

[The Outlaw]

Gong,

A rather simplistic view I'd say.

So you buy into the "if you don't like then leave" bull**** and are happy to lay down and be taken advantage of? Pathetic.

Many of us do what we can within the boundaries of common sense and self preservation to make changes but without the backing of a collective, you are very limited. Many pilots have just left as its the only option in many cases...but they did do something. This forum and the postings within have likely saved many pilots from coming here to certain disappointment and they have perhaps learned from the mistakes of others. Don't forget, this company USED to be a great company to work for.

I'd suggest by your statement that you either don't have a family or if you do, then don't give a toss about providing for them with some degree of confidence.

There are other ways of making the company take notice and listen and its starting to happen now, its only a question of when the management pulls their head out of the sand.

[flareflyer]

And it is the last thursday before the paycheck and no news......
They are aware that they have to give something in order to retain/attract people but they hate it.......
What makes me worry is that if they have this kind of attitude during good times i really dont know what the will do when bad times will come.........
:rolleyes:

[glofish]

Even Putin has an open e-mail and invites his comrades to write to him. He has an open TV forum where everyone can call and ask questions. Needless to say that all of it is supposedly guaranteed without any repercussions for any author (!!!), as long as you stay within the boundaries of respect. But it is the power itself who defines the boundaries of respect. Otherwise it has to protect the nation and confine liberties and the right to speak, which happening right now, just read the news.

Does that ring a bell?

I guess the lecturing contributors above would wholeheartedly agree and sign the following statement:

If a mere 10% of Russians did this (write and complain) there would be change. 20% would terrify the upper floors (regime).

Good luck. I don't.

As long as power is so unilaterally distributed (as here), the power in charge will never listen. That is not my humble opinion or wisdom, that's interpretation of history!
The only force that historically was able to tumble any dictatorial regime was passive resistance (i guess that is what the Outlaw is referring to), but never some letter to the president ...... :ugh:

[Dropp the Pilot]

Ah, the passive resistance clanger.

Passive resistance only works where there is a free press. If Gandhi had tried his stunts in Stalin's Russia you would have never have heard of him and his remains would be mouldering in a mass grave somewhere.

[ByeByeDubai]

Russia? Stalin? Ghandi? Self Preservation?

My! We are a collection of shadow jumping meerkats.

Let me get this right. You write polite, well constructed, factual letter/email on an issue, with no histrionics or accusations and you fear dismissal, midnight visits, gulags or execution?

I guess that answers two questions. Many frequent posters have obviously never written as either they would not be here or they would - because none of their fears transpired.

When the company changed the staff travel arrangements and thousands wrote in, were they all sent packing or did it change? When they introduced a cap on utilities in company accommodation and many wrote in what happened? It quietly died. These are not the only examples.

I have written in a number of times and made my point. Normally nothing happens except a polite reply that it will be looked into. It seldom is followed up. Occasionally if it part of a bigger group that has written, change occurs in some form. I know a few others who have done the same. I haven’t yet heard of any case of cruel prosecution. The problem is a few are easy to ignore. So generally they do.

There are many who moan on this forum, in the flight deck and around the bar. Few act. Hence pilots are where they are, and it will only get worse.

Rationalise is however you want, but take a hard look at yourselves.

[glofish]

BBD:

Many frequent posters have obviously never written as either they would not be here or they would - because none of their fears transpired

Could you clarify? I don't get it.

Concerning the metaphors, they are generally accepted to clarify a point, ridiculing them is generally considered having weak arguments.

My point is:

I have written, only to get no answer and no change.
I have acted. Only to get called in and receive a letter!

Go figure. The power and interest disparity is too big and one sided.
In my experience writing is futile in the actual circumstances.
But then again, that's only my opinion, i respect yours.
Simply please don't patronise if dissenting.


Dropp:

Passive resistance only works where there is a free press

Have you actually studied some recent history? Like the rise and fall of the GDR? Do you really believe in what you wrote? Fair enough if you do, but you should not be condescending about people who don't ("Ah, the passive resistance clanger").

Passive resistance is happening right now, right here.
Voting with your feet is passive resistance.
Not applying to the holy company is passive resistance.
Not caring about FCIs and simply trashing without reading Alans mail is passive resistance.

And it is working ...... definitely more than writing to the teflon coated and even with a not so "free" press environment.

[gardenshed]

Considering that pay day is in 5 days time, should this thread be re-named "The Lack Of Pay Review" :mad:

[TheDarkHorse]

Four jailed for life after insulting UAE on Twitter (http://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/uae/four-jailed-for-life-after-insulting-uae-on-twitter/ar-BBjXLo0)

Just look at why and what is in the inverted comma's

[jack schidt]

Emirates approve of PPRuNe though as they seem to be the biggest advertiser here :}

J

[fliion]

Gong & ByeBye,

Bravo : / .

.. Love you letter writing dudes.


Now perhaps you can tell us meerkats how TCAS responded to your letter enquiring about our pay review?

f.

[donpizmeov]

His response is "I hope to be able to put out something very soon". Which pretty much equates to his response last year.

[sluggums]

fliion, gotta love the hypocrisy on this website, eh... Well said.

[fatbus]

Training meeting yesterday ,we were led to believe next week . " We are still working on it. "

[harry the cod]

Was that the same training day which started with a 'we are short of pilots' statement by an SVP and ended with a 'no we're not, attrition rate is normal' by a DSVP. Did like the subtle slide of the river as a backdrop for the finale. What river was it? The Nile. Or as they might say in Africa...."De Nile" That 's exactly what some senior management are in.....

If we're not short of pilots, why the f*£k are we not all getting our 42 days leave per year. Stop treating us like idiots.

Harry

[donpizmeov]

I hear you Harry.

[Basic Service]

Ok, so I already know the answer.......BUT WHY DO IT???

I can live with a company trying to maximise their bottom line etc, but what is being gained by not saying anything about the pay review? I've tried to think of something but keep coming up with nowt....

Last year we went through the same circus act with TCAS sending an email at the 11th hour to say ( hold nose whilst reading aloud ), "We are still working on it and will let you know as soon as we can".:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

To my simple mind this is farcical. Lets not pretend that they don't already know what's going to be offered. This is an intentional delay in disseminating information for some yet to be discovered reason. The result is that the entire company is frustrated and angry, not at the probable minuscule rise, but at the sheer lack of respect in communicating their intentions. There must be some phycological mind game trick that benefits them ( that I'm missing), but it seems that all that is gained is pissing us all off??

I know it will be back dated etc and I'm fine with that, but its so unnecessary and damaging to the already poor moral of the troops. I'm shaking my head here, Why do it?:confused:

[Laker]

I think they are doing it to slow the pace of resignations. Hope is a powerful thing. If they know the reaction will be disappointment then they are better off delaying as long as possible. Talking about going back to the States, Europe, over to China, etc is one thing. Actually pulling the kids out of school and moving the family is another. As long as the hope of a change in rostering/pay raise is in the back of your mind you will probably delay filling out that application or going to an overseas assessment.

[harry the cod]

LAKER

That could well be true, another could be purely financial. Even backdated, with almost 4000 pilots taking an average salary of 40,000 per month, one months delay is quite a saving for an Indian accountant. I'm not being racist, I'm dealing with cultural facts and experience. Why do we have so many? Because they're bloody good at their job, that's why. Let's assume a measly rise of 3% on that figure by 1200, now x 4000 = 4,800,000 million dhs. Cabin crew were also delayed last year. 20,000 crew, add in rise of 150dhs (if they're lucky) a month, that's another 3,000,000. Now the engineers and you can easily have 10,000,000dhs. Ground staff........and so on. An organisation like Emirates could easily achieve a 5% return on investment. Keeping that saving in it's own vaults for even a month will earn it a conservative 500,000dhs in interest alone. That covers a new F/O in salary and perks for a year.

Remember, this is the Company where you have to pay the cashier before you order your food in training college. We can be trusted with a billion dollars worth of life and material but not for 19dhs worth of rubber chicken in curry sauce. Nice subtle message to the brand new red shirts on day one eh! I Actually find that insulting. So, would I put it past them that the constant search for every dirham of profit at the expense of welfare and morale is a possible reason for the delay?

I'll let those of you employed by this Company be the judge of that.

Harry

[SlavePunishment]

I agree with most of the opinions about why this Pay review has not been announced so far.
But there might also be a problem of Cashflow Management.

With the May salary, all EK employees will receive the "Bonus 2014".
This takes a lot of cash wich has to be paid out within one day. Even for EK, May is the most expansive month considering salaries every year. Unless there is no Bonus.

To reduce this Cash Amount AS is not allowed inform about the Pay Review for Pilots until the May salary is paid. AS will do it after the 25th and it will be back paid for the month of May in the month of June.

Just my 5 cent worth of an opinion.

SP

[lospilotos]

Paying for the hot food in advance makes sense, that's pretty much the only thing that makes sense nowadays though...

[Panther 88]

Harry, what's gotten into you lately? You're making way too much sense, mate.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Panther..

Agree about Harry! Have noticed a marked difference in his writings as of late….

K

[Dropp the Pilot]

If cabin crew did indeed get a generous 150 dirham pay raise last year, any discontent arising therefrom could easily be calmed by pointing out to them that this massive sum is more than half the size of the pay raise which was awarded to 20-year captains....

[harry the cod]

Ah yes, the Captains on 60,000 dhs per month... basic. Those numbers will illicit even less sympathy from the vast majority of EK employees

The 150 I quoted was purely a guess for this year. I think they got very little last year, literally 30-40 dhs increase. Maybe someone better informed with the actual figures could enlighten us.

lospilotos

I don't think they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts for conserving food temperature, otherwise why incorporate the same policy for the basement canteen in A building. It's hardly ever busy there.

Harry

[JAARule]

Harry post #91, that's the Harry we thought might've been snatched and replaced with Harry the Realist. But you're back!

Why do we have so many? Because they're bloody good at their job, that's whyI nearly fell off my barstool when I read that. Seriously? Harry, we all know it's because they're bloody cheap not bloody good, same as every industry in this place.

As for the salary delay for interest, yes absolutely. Staff travel do it on a different scale with tickets. If you buy a ticket on the 1st of the month, then cancel it 5min later, you're out of luck. The ticket is deducted from your salary 3 weeks later and you have to claim it back in the next salary a month after that. They get the interest and you might forget to claim it.

It'd be interesting to know the percentage of profits this airline makes from their own staff. Speaking of which, any wine crates left? They look nice, well worth 1100 chips back into bottomless company coffers. They need the money.

[olster]

And a medical claim can take months for reimbursement...although you will get it eventually.

[harry the cod]

JAARule

That was my point, they're good for the Company at accounting for every single dirham. It's taken me over 6 months before to get a rebate for a missed allowance yet have had deductions actioned the same month. Same department but obviously different 'policy' applies to refunds and charges. The damage these people do to the morale by creating such a tight fisted environment is hugely detrimental to the workforce.

Harry

[Neptune Spear]

Yes Harry! Spot on again.
And there are still pilots who want to join Emirates.

[lospilotos]

So the pay advice email should arrive in an hour or so. Still no word...

[ekwhistleblower]

Step plus 1! Set your sights low and you won't be disappointed��

[6853]

Nothing on mine this month? Still same pay scale.

[lospilotos]

Same here... This must qualify as an all time communications fail..

[White Knight]

You mean like last year's all time communication fail?

[lospilotos]

You mean like last year's all time communication fail?

Well last year they at least managed to get a "we are late" email before the May payslip...

[Cloud Bunny]

No pay review email, no roster (yet hopefully), ICrew is down.....are the lights still on in EGHQ???

[Man Flex 37.5]

You need to download a new copy of icrew from the portal

[flareflyer]

What to say.......
it is really sad to see that they don't even respect anymore basic rules.....
It is written that the pay review has to be before may salary......
It is written in our contracts that we have 42 days of leave per year.......
They totally don't care anymore and they show it with absolutely no shame.....
I know that we need a lot of pilots but i would never suggest my friends to join this company.........
really sad......... and frustrating........:ugh::ugh:

[Yossarian]

I'd like to say that it's 'unbelievable', but unfortunately nothing surprises me anymore. Total disdain for everyone is the status quo.

[thatwasclose]

Guys send an email asking when it will come out . Also email your fleet manager about the 42 days . It says under exceptional circumstances it won't be granted . Ask what the definition of exceptional is . If you don't send an email , you are not helping your self . If you do you may not be but at least you might be .

[CamelRustler]

TWC
When I interviewed many moons ago someone did ask about the minimum 8 days off a month written in the OMA. This was the response.
"Well, yes it is written there solely because Emirates needs to be able to act swiftly to pick up canceled orders of aircraft from other carriers. Right now our pilots are enjoying between 14-18 days off a month. We have been in business a long time and we have never seen a roster with 8 days off. 8 days off would be under exceptional circumstances and very temporary."




I now believe "Exceptional Profits" = "Exceptional Circumstances."

There was also 10 minutes dedicated to the amazing profit share program.
"It' like a 25% pay raise!" Still waiting for that little gem......

P.S The past two years has been mostly 8 days off.


I also believe any new hire will only go to expansion not relief in our unrealistic schedules.

[SOPS]

8 days off a month has AAR written all over it.

[Kempus]

Email is here.

Omg

[Mr Good Cat]

Email is here.

Omg

They could have at least worded it like we had a rise in some, instead of nothing :ooh:

[highlight]

3% pay raise and a reduction from 92 hours block to 88 hours block in a 31-day month. You're so kind, EK. :rolleyes:

[THRCLB]

Guys you got mail....big fat ZERO;)

[Mr Good Cat]

3% pay raise and a reduction from 92 hours block to 88 hours block in a 31-day month. You're so kind, EK. :rolleyes:

Liar. ;)

There is no pay rise. 3% is the step in the contract!

Where are all the Company apologists on here now?

[lfrk]

What a ******* joke!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
3% you got be kidding!!!

[glofish]

I expect each and everyone to respond with the third key from top left in June.

Pick your worst flt and by that let's all send a clear message!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad:

[natops]

Not a fkng percent! No inflation correction, nothing. Im really pissed off now, and will go sick....

The only tool we have...

N.:ugh:

[Mr Good Cat]

Not a fkng percent! No inflation correction, nothing. Im really pissed off now, and will go sick....

The only tool we have...

N.:ugh:

Guys please stop quoting the 3% as per the email.

It isn't. That is the contract step.

You got Nada. Nil. Nothing.

No dressing it up!

[Overtimer997]

This just goes to see ho far their heads are in the sand.

0%.............

Stunned.......

Watch out reserve pilots

[highlight]

Liar.

There is no pay rise. 3% is the step in the contract!

Where are all the Company apologists on here now?

Duly noted and I stand corrected. In any case, I guess we should feel privileged to be working for these sons of motherless goats. What an insult.

[Wingman82]

Omg...Its a shame. 3% standard pay rise will not even cover my grocery shopping in this expensive part of the world.

[captainsmiffy]

Interesting, I was sat in a waiting room at a medical centre today and got chatting with a young chap who was joining FlyDubai as a pilot. I asked if he intended joining Emirates or Etihad eventually. His response was along the lines of "No way would I join EK with the bad press on prune....".....so the adverse publicity is having a palpable effect on the pilot community at large.

[LHR Rain]

There are still plenty of pilots joining EK. I have no idea what they are thinking or where they come from but they obviously didnt do their homework.

[harry the cod]

'Going sick is the only tool we have'. Er, no it isn't. That just screws your colleagues and achieves little. However, when a few more pilots decide to leave for the bus around STD-60, after the cabin crew, then the message might get through, especially when they run short of buses and drivers. Don't work days off, write to AS and JA about the lack of salary increase and finally, do nothing above and beyond what you're contracted to do. Do it professionally and with as large a safety margin as deemed appropriate.

Remember, your legal report is 60 minutes before departure. Several of our flights depart at 0700. If you're carrying out any duty at the behest of the Company before 6am after a day off, and I guarantee that's exactly what you'll be rostered before those early mornings, you are violating your day off and the OMA. So, put your money where you mouth is and either grow some balls, put up or shut up!

Whinging on here, as we've just witnessed today, achieves very little.

Harry

[bigdaviet]

There will be a lot of seriously unhappy people at Ek now.


Erm........

[Temujin]

This is boring, all you guys/gals at EK do is whine and do nothing!
If you dislike it so much, grow a set of coconuts and do something!

Please close this thread!

T

[lospilotos]

Yeah, hoping the captains around here will put their money there their mouth is and voice their discontent to AS and JA. I would too if I was sure it would not be "career limiting"...

[steve777driver]

You are right Harry. It really is the only thing we can do. I hope more people follow suite. I have very heavy heels at the moment...

[AndTheShowIsOver]

I'm just happy they didn't REDUCE our pay by 3%!!! Come on U.S. legacy carriers, CALL ME...I'm ready to come home!!!

[Toruk Macto]

Are pilots locked into reducing T&C's ? Airlines understand most won't go due seniority or it's just more difficult to leave than stay . Airlines don't really head hunt and make offers that make it easy to leave . Airlines know if they give huge pay increases they will get interest but then a richer airline just offers more so are we witnessing airlines having a unofficial policy of never offering more that's reciprocated all over the world ?

[VLS with ice]

Agree with Harry. Check in at STD-60, go straight to FDM and ask for bus to aircraft. You can still take company transport and have a costa while you wait for STD-60.
Not working on days off etc, been doing that for years, hope everybody gets that now.
Writing them an email? Useless, tried it and got snotty replies every time.

[Alconguin Crusader]

I have written emails for years, stop in on occasion and voiced my opinion, asks pointed questions at wash-ups and have checked in at just past 60 mins but nothing has changed and nothing will change. Pardon my pessimism.
13 1/2 months to go and I can't wait. I think it will get worse here as well.

[paokara]

3%

That's sad

[skyvan]

The big pay turnaround: 2015 Salary Forecasts
More Sharing Services
1
The big pay turnaround: Eurozone recovering, emerging markets falter in 2015

• Global salary rises up compared to last year
• But workers in key emerging markets will experience real wage cuts
• Increase in Europe driven by previously struggling countries such as Ireland and Greece

Latest data from global management consultancy Hay Group reveals that salaries are increasing at a faster rate than last year despite disappointing growth in several key emerging markets.

Struggling emerging markets

Salaries across the globe are set to rise by 5.4% on average for 2015 – compared to 5.2% last year. But this average masks a significant slowdown in emerging markets like Brazil, Russia and Ukraine, which have been the key drivers of growth in recent years.

Workers in these countries can expect to see salary rises of 6.1%, 6.8% and 6.8% respectively. However, with inflation (predicted to be 6.5%, 7.5% and 10.7%), employees will experience real wage cuts of 0.4%, 0.7% and 3.9%.

Signs of hope in Europe

Salaries in Europe have been buoyed by the improving performance of economies that have struggled recently. Most notably, Greece and Ireland are set to see salary rises of 1.3% and 1.4% respectively, a real wage growth of 2.5% and 1.1% – compared to 0.8% and 0.2% last year, as both countries return to economic growth.

Across the region, salaries are expected to rise by 3.1%. And with low inflation (predicted to be 1.5%), employees will see real average wage growth of 1.6%.

It is also good news in the UK for employees who will start to see a recovery in wage growth. While salary rises of 2.5% are the same as last year, with lower inflation (predicted to be 1.7%) employees will experience an increase in real income (0.8%) for only the second time since 2009.

Turkey is forecast to experience the largest increase in Europe with pay rises up to 9.0% but workers will still feel a squeeze on income with inflation predicted to be 8.9%.

Ben Frost, consultant at Hay Group, comments: “This year’s global forecast shows pay rises rising at a higher rate this year compared to last. However, this conceals stark variations from region to region and country to country. Each market has its own complexities and organizations must understand the detail if they want to attract and retain the best workers. The big turnaround is between Europe and the emerging markets. Real pay is now rising in many European markets, but in key emerging economies, which have been the boom area of the last 10 years, real wages are falling.”

Strong growth in the Middle East and Africa

Despite broader economic and political turmoil, salaries in the Middle East and Africa are forecast to rise by 5.6% and 6.9% respectively, a real growth in income of 2.9% and 2.0% as inflation is predicted to remain relatively low.

Ben Frost concludes: “To make low salary rises stretch further, workers who are performing well may receive higher than average pay increases, while it’s likely that poor and average performing workers will receive little if no increase. However, a business is nothing without its people and, during periods of low growth, organizations must think creatively about how they motivate and reward their employees.”

Ends

Please note: this study should be credited to ‘global management consultancy, Hay Group’, and not ‘Hay’ or ‘Hays’, which are separate and unrelated organisations.

[Schnowzer]

So no pay rise and the second biggest profit ever. It doesn't bode well. Nice article by the way.

[marniplod]

Payment up front for the rubber chicken curry was because too many of the red shirts were walking out of the canteen without paying in industrial numbers, they had to do something about it, but like most corrective action the consequences are for all not the culprits

[BigGeordie]

When the new hires are stealing from the company in such huge numbers it does make you wonder what they are recruiting. I have never heard of any company canteen anywhere where they trust the staff so little you have to pay for your food before you get it.

These are the people we spend our layovers with and who look after us on the aircraft. Maybe we should warn the passengers to lock their hand luggage?

[donpizmeov]

My contract adjust letter on HR direct still only shows the pay review from 2014. I wonder if the new increment will make it in the June pay?

Also found the pay step you are on is shown on the contract adjust history page. Max step is number 30 I believe so you can see where you sit.

[aussiefarmer]

Gentlemen,

Have you realized that EK Management have achieved the unachievable?

It is not about the money anymore.

I can't recall the last time I met someone at work who didn't hate working for EK. Poor management practices have managed to detach the great majority of the workforce from the company to the point that increasing our salaries or improving our terms is not gonna change anything!

Once trust and loyalty are lost... good luck trying to win them back.

[jack schidt]

Loyalty is earnt, not bought!

J

[bia botal]

It is not about the money anymore.

But it is the only way that the current trend can be reversed, it has to start with money, it's the only thing that doesn't lie at the moment, without a substantial pay increase they will not stop people leaving or attract new entrance.They can't garantee 42 days a year leave without the numbers to support it, nor can they reduce the monthly hrs, to get the work force up to a level that other obligation are meet can only be done with cash, all the lies peddled at the road shows are now well known, but if the word got out that EK just gave say a 20% pay increase along with a better housing and schooling allowance and increased flight pay and a lower productivity threshold people will come, less will leave, monthly hrs will drop and allocated leave will go up! It's all about the money now!

[glofish]

Money matters, certainly. But simply throwing money at the situation will not work.

Money will help sustain any implemented change, but first we need change. Nobody trusts management anymore, nobody! It has been lost permanently. So a change in management is primordial. The actual protagonists can not stay if any change in the lethal erosion at EK is desired. We all know who has to go and it is simply up to HH to go ahead. As long as he is so distant to reality, nothing can happen, even a 20% pay rise will be simply taken, but no change will ensue.

The recruiting problems originate not only in the unattractive package, but more in the negative propaganda among pilots. Such mouth to mouth transfer of experience and knowledge is widely underestimated, because it is relatively slow to show. But once it does, it is even slower to go away if desired, because it is completely out of control of the companies and its cronies, it is entirely in the hands of the pilots themselves, especially of the ones in the respective company. This will haunt each and every manager, because it is so out of his control. Therefore the panic actions on all levels at EK, to show they are doing something, even though it is futile. Control is very much lost at Emirates Airlines, the control by TC and by AAR! They are doomed, and it is self inflicted.

A new team will be faced with multiple problems. I think the fast track to gaining the employees back to more or less function normally at least for some time, would be to cancel some flights as to give everyone some breathing space: Contractual leave for pilots, no overtime obligation for mechanics, humane rosters for FAs. If some think that this is inconceivable, then i would simply remind the situation with the runway closure. EK handled this quite well, so a similar response to this equally threatening problem can work.

[bia botal]

Replacing TC AS and AAR will be fundamental for the staff already here, for new entrances it will mean little as most would have little or no clue as to who they are, I'd never heard of AS till I meet him during induction, sitting on the desk at the front of the room head down muttering away! Does anyone doubt any replacements will only be worse, members of the elite with no idea how to change anything but there own bottom line!

[SOPS]

The trouble is, someone has to tell the emperor he has no clothes. ( and that would be a very brave someone). While they continue to believe their own publicity, that EK is the place that the whole world wants to work for, and they are the greatest 'life style' brand in the known universe, nothing is going to change.

[Kerosene]

Doesn't any of you esteemed professionals at EK have the balls to ask for an audience with / write a letter to HH and give him the unsweetened truth of what has become of his airline? No Spartacus among you?

[falconeasydriver]

The trouble is, someone has to tell the emperor he has no clothes.

SOPs you know thats never going to happen at EK anytime soon, it would be (is) career suicide due to the abundant Wasta and arrogance issues at play.
The only way things will change is when there is significant operational disruption, then money will be thrown at it, a minion called Prakash will be sacked for gross incompetence and the local chap in charge of things will get a bonus or a new golden ipad etc. :ugh::hmm:

[SOPS]

I agree with you 100% Falcon.Thats why I said anyone who speaks up would have to be very very brave indeed.

[The Guru]

It’s not about the money, but it is the only denominator that the company has at its’ disposal to address the problems in the short term.

Since the pay review was announced and the shock rippled through the workforce, the level of disenchantment with management has only increased. There remains no single individual who willingly represents the needs or concerns of the pilot group to management. There is no individual championing the pilots as a group to be supported, rather than berated – Fleet managers don’t do it, Chief Pilots don’t do it, JA isn’t doing it, TCAS is definitely not doing it, and AAR doesn’t want to listen about it! So the needs of the group are effectively being ignored.

The pay review did nothing for the average pilot. The lower productivity threshold did not give pilots the option of choosing to fly in excess of 92hrs per month. The lower productivity threshold did not assist those pilots doing 15 turnarounds a month to be paid for their Herculean efforts or even achieve productivity. The lower productivity threshold did not address the additional duty hours worked by the pilots outside of their “normal salaried 8.00am – 4.00pm office hours” in non-flying duties.

Basic management has traditionally dictated that if an employee’s pay and leave are honored, then they will generally do what you ask of them willingly.

The litany of examples provided by pilots of their reduced EK pay and conditions with respect to inflation, questionable profit share calculations, previous productivity thresholds, ground duties, emergency procedures, first aid training, online courses, and sim sessions, have been coupled with the lack of available leave, and the result is no longer any honor or integrity shown to the pilot group. Pay rises of between 3%-6% for office staff, and 25+ week bonuses for managers, has further exacerbated the chasm between the office and the front line.

Trust and integrity can be demonstrated, but the quickest fix is an extraordinary pay review. There is a precedent of it occurring once in EK’s history, and back then it did make a difference. It would be the public indication of the first step in a change to current management practices, but remains solely a discretionary tool available to the select few in upper management.

The G.

[120feet]

I agree that showing up to work an hour before the flight is justifiable, since that is when you legally start work according to EK, but that would land you in the Chief’s office toot sweet. And EK pilots are about as unified as a herd of cats. Sick calls were professed in an earlier post as “The only tool” you have to express discourse. I would agree that given your horrific schedules NO pilot should report to work if they think that they will be fatigued on a given flight. You owe it to your family and passengers and fellow pilots to not operate if there is a chance you can’t perform to acceptable standards. Also, a SKF deserves an ASR. Without an ASR, SKF’s mean absolutely nothing.
Secondly, I have watched EK pilots push and taxi. You guys do your flight control checks like you’re playing wack-a-mole. It’s an airplane. Take a deep breath after the push and sloooowly move the control surfaces. When you’re done, take another deeeeep breath and perform the check list. When you're done with the check list make sure your FO is ready and your seats are properly adjusted and you have reviewed the taxi route. Then call for taxi. Also note, this is not a race. The 30 knot taxi speed is a limitation, not a goal. Given the fatiguing rosters, 10 knots is much safer.
Third, you guys are constantly flying through the bumps at flight planned speed. Slow down for goodness sake. Why fill out an ASR for an overspeed. Also, it’s much more comfortable for your passengers. I can think of very few flights where there isn’t some segment where you should sloooow down for safety and comfort. EK pilots are also famous for accepting short cuts. Why? Especially if you are in a DARD you are just increasing your workload on an already exhausting schedule. Plus, EK has spent millions of dollars of flight planning software. Do not assume you know better by flying other than the planned route.
Completely unrelated:
This is just a question; If, (I am speaking hypothetically.) block times went up 3-5% anyone in overtime would get more overtime $. Cabin crew would get more flight pay and or the number of flights on your monthly roster would decrease. Also, there are several flights, and turns that are planned near max duty, and frequently assigned back to back. Given the immense workload Flights such as these should rarely be at or under block same with flights arriving at 2325. All this IMHO
Please take care of yourselves.
120

[SOPS]

I'm not there anymore, but it has been stated on this forum, that a SKF call will result in an automatic CDT test. If this is true ( and it would not surprise me) a fatigue call could result in the person being shown the door quick smart.

If that is company induced pressure not to call fatigued, I dont know what is.

And let me add, I think 99 percent of people would not be bothered by a CDT test, but it's just yet, another threat from the top.

[Emma Royds]

SKF doesn't mean an automatic CDT test. In fact, you are not even required to visit the clinic before you next fly. Just fill in the FRMS form and the clinic will contact you if they want.

[SOPS]

That is good to hear Emma.

[120feet]

I know pilots who called SKF 5 times this year so far without any calls from anyone. BTW SKF was not the point of the post.

[CamelRustler]

Guru- Spot on. I do not see the problem being resolved short or long term however. Whoever steps into AS shoes will be another yes man, that's how you get the job.
120- Your post needs to be it's own thread. It's a great post! But, it will get lost in here.

[falconeasydriver]

It's NEVER going to improve, if history tells us anything about the mentality amongst honour/face saving obsessed cultures it is that it's better to dispose of ones child (insert slit throat, burn or stone to death, hire a cousin to do it) than it is to evolve and learn or adapt.
A new brush will merely implement the continued degradation of your standard of living.
Happy Ramadam.