RAF Buccaneer - 12 Squadron Training Film - NATO OPEN GATE - 1978 [Archive]

Fox3WheresMyBanana

12th May 2015, 10:06

I remember seeing this as a CCF cadet shortly after it came out. The HQ Officer who brought it down to show us was bubbling over because it was a new, cool movie - not the usual "The cross-flange is mechanically connected to the steel widget by four 6BSF screws and...:zzz:"

I even bought the Vangelis album with the music on it.

Ten years later, I was flying sweep for 12 Sqn out of Gibraltar. Result!

Wander00

12th May 2015, 11:12

radar - is the guy you refer to a Chinook driver with "L"s rather than "D"s. If so I will be having a meal with him and his wife sometime in the next couple of week. PM me if you want to pass on a message

W

Cooperman

12th May 2015, 20:46

I first watched this as a ATC cadet in the late seventies and it inspired me to join. That, and a poster on the wall of a Phantom crew walking out to their jet in sh** weather with the caption "if Met is right, we should be above this at 20000 feet" or words to that effect. Brilliant video, and like F3WMB, I bought the album!

Courtney Mil

12th May 2015, 23:21

Ah, Spiral. Good album. Early days for Evangelos.

But that's not important now. Cracking old vid. Look a the shots, aft facing angles, cockpit and formation views that weren't really seen again for a long time. Shots that these days command accolades when we see a clip of the Thunderbirds or the Reds on You Tube. My point is that this was a ground-breaking vid that took a lot of people a lot of time to catch up with.

And, let's face it, the Bucc was a great subject.

Outstanding. Haven't seen it for years so thanks so much for posting.

reynoldsno1

12th May 2015, 23:28

I was on this exercise in Gibraltar - but doing the disport bit with the Buccs from the Nimrod. Some faces I recognise, but the names have faded now ... though the admirable Ian Leckenby appears at the eraly briefing ...

O-P

13th May 2015, 02:39

I remember 'racing' a Bucc 2 ship in my F3 from Madrid to Gib, via Portugal obviously. There was a barrel involved as the prize, maybe two.

Anyway, we trailed the Bucc's until feet wet from Portugal (for some strange reason they thought their Navkit was better), dropped down and then they started to slow down!! Not understanding this part of the game I hit the burners overtook, turned left, left, then left again and landed. Some 20mins later 2 Bucc's slowly crept into Gib.

The very sheepish crews (Yes Bat, you) finally revealed that they had 'forgotten' to refuel the bomb bay tank and were fuel critical the whole way.

Great bunch of guys who were always fantastic to work with.

Same exercise, (Linked Seas?) we were following a B52 dropping chaff. The chaff had frozen over the Atlantic (GPPM) and was bouncing off the canopy in golf ball sized chunks!

johnfairr

13th May 2015, 07:41

though the admirable Ian Leckenby appears at the eraly briefing ...

Try Phil Leckenby . . . . .

He was on my Nav Course at Finningley (though he didn't need it . . . ) after his accident. Never forget him taking off his own pilot brevet before marching up to the Reviewing Officer (Air Commodore Austen?) to receive his single wing.

;);)

ACW418

13th May 2015, 07:45

Who I was talking to yesterday. He was the airborne cameraman to boot.

ACW

mopardave

13th May 2015, 08:25

Such an evocative video! I saw it at school......my mind was made up! Alas, I ran out of talent at OASC! :-(

Dare I say it, but we actually had an Air Force then.....all those types! Apologies to anyone currently serving. No offence intended. It just seems that way.

Anyway......great post....and I'm about to get started "Buccaneer Boys".

MD :ok:

Alber Ratman

13th May 2015, 13:10

Director for the film was Hugh Hudson. His next film that had a Vangelis soundtrack won 4 Oscars and was called "Chariots of Fire". My all time favourite RAF PR film, seen as an ATC cadet in 1979. Did a Bucc detachment as well as a Klingon from Lossie, shame it was not Gib. "To the Unknown Man", My body will go into the fire with that tune playing.

reynoldsno1

13th May 2015, 22:30

but the names have faded now
Try Phil Leckenby
aah, yes ... well 50% fade :O

Wingswinger

14th May 2015, 11:48

I first saw this on the Weapons Employment Course at College of Air Warfare in 1980 - shown by Dave Herriott who was an 12 Sqn at the time. Mal Grosse I recall as a QFI at Valley in 1974, the Boss, Peter Harding, I recall from his refresher course at 79 Sqn RAF Brawdy. Mike Rudd I flew with in '73 when he was a QFI at Cranwell and I was a stude. I also spotted Andy Young who had been on the same UAS as me and whom I later came across on Tornado in the 1980s. Jock Frizzell I flew with on 14 Sqn in '85 -'86.

JOE-FBS

14th May 2015, 11:58

Ditto seeing it at ATC, loving the music and failing OASC (though my ambition was only as Eng Officer).

Anyway, the point of this post is, that video is also available on DVD (I cannot recall the title and it's 160 miles away at home) with a load of very interesting extra Buccaneer stuff. It all went down very well at a flying club film night a couple of years ago.

2Planks

14th May 2015, 14:01

Great Film, great music - trouble is it just reminds me of IOT as clips were played very regularly as we waited for the next dreary instalment in the RAF's biggest sleeping bag that was Whittle Hall!

air pig

14th May 2015, 15:32

Pirates of the Mediterranean was I suspect the parts of the filming that they did not dare put in the original film. Was on you tube but has since been removed.

Minnie Burner

14th May 2015, 16:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cALccuPShQc

BARKINGMAD

14th May 2015, 17:10

Saw the film during Flight Safety course in '79. I too went out and bought the Vangelis album with the music. It seemed a great aircraft compared with the delicate rubbish turned out by the planemakers of today. I also recall our BFTS course from Leeming visited the Brough factory where the 'frames were hewn from the solid billet, marvelling at the strength and simplicity of the landing gear, later the same day we adjourned to Holme-on-Spalding Moor airfield whence the finished articles were flown out for delivery. Halcyon days, when we had an aircraft industry and if I recall correctly we also had an air force, a navy and an army..........

greywings

22nd May 2015, 00:24

Brilliant!

Haven't felt the inclination to log in for ages. However, lovely to see old friends showing how to operate the Old Girl with panache and passion.

GW

Darvan

22nd May 2015, 06:19

Et precision.:)

Fg Off Bloggs

24th May 2015, 14:37

Et precision

Well done Darvan!

237 OCU - 'Panache et Precision'

Bloggs:D

Courtney Mil

24th May 2015, 16:22

Panache and passion. Good words and well put, Greywings. Maybe you should log in more often. :ok:

MAINJAFAD

24th May 2015, 19:25

The film is on this DVD, plus some other stuff that may be of interest. The 1980's one has some interesting films on it as well.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ROYAL-AIR-FORCE-LATE-1970s/dp/B0094WQQRG/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1432493663&sr=1-1&keywords=Royal+air+force+in+the+1970s

There was a very good presentation about the use of Martel and Sea Eagle on the Buccaneer at a Royal Air Force Historical Society Seminar on Guided Weapons in the RAF at Hendon last month that will be in one of their next Journals.

Gannet Driver

12th Jul 2015, 17:28

Some discussion in another forum, would be v.grateful if anyone would settle this - did the prototype, either Mk or any other version of the Buccaneer have afterburner?

I'm certain it was not but would value an expert answer.

Mike

Timelord

12th Jul 2015, 18:48

No (apparently 10 characters minimum post) No.

Gannet Driver

12th Jul 2015, 19:03

Thank you, Timelord! Didn't think it had.

In case I need to justify, what's yr aviation background?

VMT, Mike

Timelord

12th Jul 2015, 19:34

4500 hours RAF Navigator 1973-1995. A bit less than 1000 of it on Buccaneers

walbut

12th Jul 2015, 19:36

The Buccaneer was never fitted with reheat. It was considered occasionally, but the area ruling meant that when the drag rise finally kicked in, it needed an awful lot more thrust to go a bit faster and the additional fuel consumption would cut down on range too much. I dont think there was any thought of using reheat to improve sustained g turning performance in combat - with minimal air to air capability it was a better option to run fast and low than try mixing it with any fighter opposition.

The South African Mk 50 aircraft were fitted with a pair of BS 605 rocket engines to improve take off performance in hot and high operations which may be the origin of any thoughts of reheat being fitted.

My aviation credentials - 42 years at Hawker Siddeley Aviation/British Aerospace/BAE Systems Brough.

Walbut

Gannet Driver

12th Jul 2015, 20:15

Thank you both! I'm ex-FAA (1960s) pilot, but on Gannets. Was certain the Bucc had no reheat but keep on meeting this misconception, very firmly held too!

Wishing you both well, thank you for taking the time,

Mike

Timelord

12th Jul 2015, 20:21

You are very welcome. It is amazing how sure, but wrong, people can be.

Rigga

12th Jul 2015, 20:40

Could have done with this Looping around the Screens at "The Queen of Iceni" in Norwich yesterday...another well attended Bucc Groundcrew Reunion.

Cheers lads.

ivor toolbox

11th Apr 2019, 09:59

Bumping up an old thread I know, can't seem to find the video on youtube, link comes up as unavailable. First saw this film @ late 82, on first day of Bucc Q-ABC-A course at Honington, and ended up working with a couple of the 'stars' on same shift. (groundcrew trades will know) Happy days

Ttfn

Nige321

11th Apr 2019, 12:00

Is it this one...??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBtsEw47pwk

Harley Quinn

11th Apr 2019, 20:19

Is it this one...??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBtsEw47pwk

Wow. I remember seeing this around the time it was made. I was in at the time, but didn't realise the amount of prep required to achieve a deployment like that.
The music by Vangelis is a perfect accompaniment for this type of film, demonstrating not just the teeth, but the enablers.
Wouldn't it be great to see a modern equivalent.

jindabyne

12th Apr 2019, 09:04

I thought that the actors were very handsome and eloquent :)

Fg Off Bloggs

12th Apr 2019, 10:59

Aarff Aarff Aarff! Bar one, me thinks Jinda!

TLDNMCL

12th Apr 2019, 11:37

We had a screening of this around1980 during a no-flying day (Scottish fog) - a couple of the staff pilots were ex-Bucc men, and suffered a little misty eyed nostalgia during it. It's still very impressive if slightly cheesey in one or two places, and although I have no association with the Buccaneer, I've always loved it; watching it fly was like watching your fat auntie dancing at a wedding, "Bloody Hell, I never imagined she could move that well."

lightbluefootprint

12th Apr 2019, 14:16

ivor toolbox

12th Apr 2019, 21:16

Is it this one...??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBtsEw47pwk

That's the one.. thanks

Ttfn

MAINJAFAD

12th Apr 2019, 21:36

I saw this film as a cadet back in the late 70s/early 80s and like one of the early posters on this thread I went out and bought the LP by Vangelis - still got it - sadly never got much closer to the Bucc than summer camps at St Athan when they were bringing the ex-RN airframes up to RAF standard, and then about ten years later probably visiting the same ones based at Lossiemouth.
In those days the careers office staff used to bring these along on 8mm cine film, I remember another one which I think was called Watchdogs and was all about RAF Germany as was. Happy - if a bit scary - days.

Watchdogs is on this DVD. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Royal-Force-Definitive-Collection-REGION/dp/B00DSAUHSO/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/257-8917832-9765421?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00DSAUHSO&pd_rd_r=c89eaf7c-5d6a-11e9-a139-9786f838d760&pd_rd_w=LOYyC&pd_rd_wg=7OPQv&pf_rd_p=07e3e597-b71b-4701-a3fd-d79c50f48406&pf_rd_r=S5KSCS14TM6ZA9CRYKGQ&psc=1&refRID=S5KSCS14TM6ZA9CRYKGQ

Bombhead59

18th Apr 2019, 11:42

ivor toolbox

18th Apr 2019, 17:41

I noticed on one of the films the navy Phantoms were flying without the blue ballast sparrow missiles which in my experience were always fitted if they weren't carrying live missiles - anyone know why?

They weren't actually needed. As a phormer Phantom Phixer ...
IIRC the use of ballast missiles was to maintain C of G within limits, if fuel was in #7 tank. Ergo if #7 tank not used, ballast missiles not used. IIRC RAF removed functionality of #7 tank on some jets, it was still there but plumbing blanked off, after someone did something silly and forgot they didn't have ballast, and attempted aerobatics or something with a full #7 tank and aft cg.
Thereafter use of ballast missiles became a precaution rather than necessity.

Ttfn

thunderbird7

8th May 2021, 16:54

What a shame - the youtube version now has some utterly sh**te music dubbed instead of the Vangelis music, which made the film truly epic!!!

ExAscoteer2

8th May 2021, 18:08

My late Father was an OpsO for that Ex (RAuxAF) and bought the album 'Spiral' as a direct result. I still have it in my vinyl collection.

goofer3

8th May 2021, 19:22

What a shame - the youtube version now has some utterly sh**te music dubbed instead of the Vangelis music, which made the film truly epic!!!
The Aviator who posted the video did ask Sony if he could use the original music, they said no.