RAA Instructor and ICUS time

[Aeraldi]

First off, I hold a CPL and am currently moving through an RAA instructor course. The RAA rules tell me that I only need a class 2 Medical for flight, which makes the CPL invalid until I renew my medical.

This is the hard part.

I've been told that instructors under training can log ICUS time when with the instructor. Now whether this is true, I am unsure and whether or not it applies to an RAA instructor is unclear.

So the question is; While under training for my RAA instructor course, can I log the time with the instructor as ICUS time or does it have to be dual?

[FoolCorsePich]

You want to log ICUS in an RA aircraft? Do you really want your log book to be a joke for the rest of your life or?

[Pontius]

1. I would keep the class 1 medical renewed and keep your CPL valid. Yes, it costs more than the class 2 and, yes, you have to do it twice as often but I wouldn't start letting licences lapse if I could help it.

2. I cannot imagine RA would be any different from 'regular' GA when it comes to logging flight time in the correct column. How do 'regular' GA instructors log their time when they do the instructors' course? I would follow that precedent and log it how they do.

[Nomde plume]

While under training for my RAA instructor course, can I log the time with the instructor as ICUS time or does it have to be dual?

No you can't. CASR 61.095

61.095 Definition of flight time as pilot in command under supervision for Part 61
(1) A person’s flight time as pilot in command under supervision is the duration of a flight if:
(a) the person holds a pilot licence; and
(b) the person performs all the duties of the pilot in command for the flight; and
(c) subregulation (2) or (3) applies to the flight.
(2) For paragraph (1)(c), this subregulation applies to the flight if:
(a) the flight is conducted by an operator that has training and checking responsibilities; and
(b) the pilot in command of the flight is authorised by the operator or the operator’s Part 142 operator to conduct the supervision of the person.
(3) For paragraph (1)(c), this subregulation applies to the flight if:
(a) the person is supervised by a flight instructor or flight examiner; and
(b) the person is not receiving flight training.


You are recieving training. Therefor it's dual. Yes these rules apply to you!

[Arm out the window]

No doubt there would be multiple interpretations by different people, but think about it - if you don't hold an instructor qualification and you're doing a course to gain that qualification, be it RAA or CASA, it's got to be dual, surely?

Any mutual training with another candidate would be PIC at the appropriate time, or if it's pretend instruction in a mutual flight with a Grade 2 or 3 acting the part, well that might be a case for ICUS perhaps, even though the other party would be PIC I imagine.

[roundsounds]

That question sounds like an ideal assignment or a CPL. holder and instructor under training. Why not do yourself a favour and research the answer for yourself?

[Homesick-Angel]

Ignore the kings of the universe who frequent these forums and know everything except how to be respectful humans , as its a fair question.

Nomde gave you the best answer.

Researching further yourself will give you more confidence with the Part 61 / MOS changes going forward.

[drpixie]

Anyone who is after a career in aviation ... just get used to finding and interpreting the regs - like it or not, the industry is regulation driven and there will be plenty of times your careful research/reading will prove the old-wifes-tales incorrect.

(Doubly so now that we're in the middle of coming to grips with the various new regs - part 61 etc.)

[LeadSled]

No you can't. CASR 61.095

Folks,
The prefect example of Australia's completely anal and non-ICAO approach to logging flight time, because the Australian psyche can't determine/accept that 'In Command" and "In Command Under Supervision" are two completely different things.
Still, it's only the younger generation who get screwed, so nobody gives a damn.
Tootle pip!!

[Aeraldi]

Thank you for the replies.
Nomde plume, thanks for the quick reply. My brain seems to lapsed when I read that but it is clear.

[roundsounds]

Interesting, if the person is exercising the privileges of an RAAus pilot certificate the flight training bit is irrelevant. To be able to log ICUS the pilot needs to hold a pilot licence, which a pilot certificate ain't. The definition of "flight training" (CASR 61.010) wouldn't extend to an RAAus instructing qualification, therefore by definition the person isn't receiving flight training, but then they're not under the supervision a flight instructor or examiner. Some of the new Part 61 definitions need reviewing, as they are subtly different to the old ones. (eg: the holder of an ATPL operating under the IFR isn't exercising the privileges of an instrument rating as the IFR privileges are contained within the ATPL).

[Flightscopeaviation]

Flightscope Aviation Archerfield would like to hear from pilots considering completing an RAAus instructor rating. To keep up with our current expansion we will also consider pliots holding current instructor cert.

[BPA]

Flightscope Aviation,

Would you consider someone who had an expired grade 2 (around 800 instructing hours) as well as previous airline training and checking experience?