EK Financial Results Announcement

[trimotor]

Rumoured to be planned for 07 May.

[lospilotos]

Makes sense, been on a Thursday first full week of May for the last few years...

Big question is, what kind of announcement...? Big thing in HQ or just a quiet email...?

[montencee]

Nobody on the line whether they are flight deck, cabin crew or techs seem to care much this year.

Even 12 months ago there was a slight buzz leading up to the profit share announcement.

This year the mood is mainly indifference.

[alwayzinit]

Montencee, I think the reasons for the lack of interest are something along the lines of:
a) Whatever the results we will get screwed over.
b) One hell of a lot of people have mentally move on from EK, so aren't bothered.
c) the money thrown about is not the issue that is driving people away, it's the lack of a life/leave, no recovery and being treated like dung.
Just my twopenn'uth

[lospilotos]

Well what I hear is more like "If it´s not 18 weeks and 20% pay raise, I´m out of here...", perhaps that´s why the buzz is missing..

[fliion]

I have been keeping records since 2008. Here is what I have.

Pay raise/profit share since May 2008
05/08
12% 14 wks
05/09
0% 0 wks - GF Crisis (In actuality a 15% pay cut due to pm hours 78-92)
05/10
6% 3wks
05/11 (edu fund 32-40/54-60)
8% 12wks
05/12
3%
05/13 (edu fund 40-42/60-63)
3.5%
05/14 (staff travel erosion)
3% 3wks (edu 42-46/63-70)
housing up to16075pm for CAPTs

2012-13 prof target 3.5bn dhs (achvd 3.1bn) 10/5/13 - Target not achieved - no profit share

13/14 target 4.22bn (1st half 2.2bn) 8/5/14 - 4.1bn achieved - Target not achieved- 3 weeks profit share

So now to this year.
2014/15 target 3.7bn (rwy closure)
1st half achieved 2.2bn - this means that in the second half the required profit to make target is $1.5bn. In light of the fact that we achieved $2.2bn with a runway closure and oil @ $100+ - I believe that the profit number will blow the target off the charts.

Whether or not this translates into a significant profit share shall be interesting.

My own belief is that it will be decent.

Enough? Since they scrapped the 78hrs per month, nothing tastes sweet.

f.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Slight correction for the last two annual increments. If you are one of the truly valued, extra-special, company watch-receiving, higly experienced pilots your increases over the last two years were 0.5% and 0.0% respectively.

Oddly enough, those margins exactly reflect my interest in contributing to the bottom line that produced this humbling largesse.

[kirungi1]

fliion; a solid well balanced and rounded analysis for subscription :ok:

Dropp; I think fliion makes a fair point of a likely shift of "those margins" to our advantage!

[fliion]

Dropp - correct I have amalgamtad the 'Steps' and raises for simplicity.

One question I have should anyone have the answer:

Under the new staff travel pricing - the fares were set when oil was $106pb.

Have the staff travel prices adjusted downwards in line with oil? Or are they the same? Thus garnering twice the profit from employees to co. due oils collapse.

Not flame , genuine question.

f.

[Saltaire]

I'm not sure if it's such a good idea to expose the world to these figures, but ok. And to clarify again, do not include the "step" as an increase in pay. Every company has a yearly increment cost of living increase. So we received .5% and 0% in the last couple years. Fantastic :mad:

Fliion: No change to the staff travel pricing. New normal

FYI: The change in '09 decimated our working conditions ( 78-92 hours/month threshold ) and sadly even when things later improved they have yet to retract or reduce these changes. It's by far the most devastating change to us and have benefited them the most. Time for a another nap to try and recover….

May 7th sounds about right. Expect the unexpected. I'm guessing a reasonably good profit share. The pay review will be the most telling…

[ridingthetops]

As far as I remember your figures are very accurate.well done job.

My expectations are 16 weeks and 8%(included the normal step) for this year.

[Shaky Hands]

I expect in the current climate that a reasonable pay rise is in order, 12% including the step is the very least I'd be happy with, along with increases in edu/flight pay. We know they are going to announced that they've smashed the profit records so therefore the share should be a record one. It will be interesting to see how they would explain it otherwise.

[flareflyer]

I think that rather than the pay increase would be more important to reduce the hours flown per month.
I don't care to make loads of money if i keep flying 90 and more hours per month!
let's not be as greedy as they are!

[Longdukdong]

Does anyone else remember two years ago? All the talk onboard was about the bonus. Not if there would be one, but rather just how BIG it would be. I don't know that there was a consensus, but I can't recall too many predictions less than eight weeks. Of course, the final result was 'Hello Zero'. I really hope we aren't setting ourselves up for a big disappointment.

So, this year? Eight weeks? Ten? Twelve? I'm guessing five weeks and five percent, but I seriously hope to be surprised. Anything less than eight weeks and immediately after the announcement this site will be flooded with complaints and predictions of the final nail in the coffin. We'll see :ok:

[Kapitanleutnant]

I'm with Flareflyer….

Would rather be flying 75-80 hours a month than any pay rise or bonus to be honest.

What good is a pay rise if you're unable to get around and enjoy because you're health is affected.

K

[VLS with ice]

Been here a while: Never hold your breath for a bonus!

All for reduction in hours too, however you need pilots for that, either staying or joining. Only way is make package more attractive than others.

90+ hours to stay till numbers increase significantly...don't hold your breath for that either...

[Mr Good Cat]

Well you are flat-out wrong about 90 hours per month here to stay, as the new FTLs effective Feb 2016 allow 1000 hrs per year so make your own conclusions... New roster system with less choices and rumored 3 days off in a row.

If this was 2009 I could see it working in their favor but now the choices are there the rats are jumping as she sinks.

What to do...

[Neptune Spear]

This year will be the largest profit ever.
The target is lower than last year.
Oil is the lowest it's been in years and projected to stay low for another 2-3 yrs.
Hence, the largest profit share ever!
All this talk of just 5 or 6 weeks profit share is just crap.
Wake up, we deserve what is due us and that is 15 weeks.
What else are they going to do to attract pilots? No one wants to join and plenty of pilots want to leave.

[VLS with ice]

Mr good cat,

With one month easily covered for leave, groundschool, ppc's etc you have 11 months for 1000 hrs. That equals 90+ a month, it will actually be closer to 100.

[Fromagio]

While a healthy profit share and pay rise are well over due, it's not about the money. This is a short term morale booster however we are working to an unsustainable limit which is impacting negatively on our health and family/social lives, this where the real change needs to be - a reduction in monthly flying hours and for that we need crew. I've heard a rumour that a 'big change' is coming with regards to our T&Cs in an attempt to attract more pilots but let's see.

[Mr Good Cat]

Mr good cat,

With one month easily covered for leave, groundschool, ppc's etc you have 11 months for 1000 hrs. That equals 90+ a month, it will actually be closer to 100.

I think you missed my irony-indicator!

I meant that 90 hours would be a luxury compared to the monthly totals in the future which can only be 100 every month.

Stand by for a pay rise of 3% with a removal of the 92 hour overtime threshold in return, resulting in 100 hour months as the norm. Good luck with that one.

:eek:

[Desdihold]

I went through a recurrent "wash up" this week and we were told that 95 hours will be the new normal for the next year until recruitment can catch up.

I interept this as 95hours being the new norm not or the next year but for ever, very few of us remember the 80 monthly limit prior to 2009.

We also need to remember that we are still paid for 80 hours of flying and not for the additional ten hours we are now flying.

I agree with the previous post 100 hours will be the new reality.

[SOPS]

I think you are flying an Extra 12 hors Desdi, 92 would be the norm at the moment.

[Neptune Spear]

I just found out that the UK elections are May 7 and that doesn't bode well for us pilots. Emirates will try to bury our shafting with all the coverage of the election, plus the 7th is a Thursday so they will announce a dismal bonus around 3pm and quickly leave for the weekend.
The bonus has to be 15 weeks.

[BigGeordie]

In the past when they have had good results to announce they have adjusted the date to avoid clashing with other newsworthy events, so it seems unlikely they would go for the same date as the UK election.

They will announce a record profit. They just might not share it, but the media won't care about that.

[Wizofoz]

They will announce a record profit. They just might not share it, but the media won't care about that.

When have they ever not shared it?

Even if you assume they under-state their profit (which I don't think they do) they have always distributed the profit share as per the stated formula.

The Joker in the pack is how big a dividend they give to the Dubai government, but aside from that they have never given less than the stated share of profit above target.

[Emma Royds]

Gentlemen - it's not the profit share that you should be concerned about but rather the pay review.

[Am NOT Sure]

All I wish for is to see one of the "veterans" come up with a solution to combat the pilot shortage

Apparently EK is struggling so bad that only short term solutions are on the table .

Increasing hours / lowering requirements (hopefully for the sake of our children not standard) is no answer

The media is uncovering the truth about EK .. And any pilot with a tablet/smart phone with some wits about him/her will quickly discover this is a dying job and has burned its trick box .

I wish all potential candidates success but I urge them to do a bit of a research before they get too involved

[Silky]

All I wish for is to see one of the "veterans" come up with a solution to combat the pilot shortage

Apparently EK is struggling so bad that only short term solutions are on the table .

Increasing hours / lowering requirements (hopefully for the sake of our children not standard) is no answer

The media is uncovering the truth about EK .. And any pilot with a tablet/smart phone with some wits about him/her will quickly discover this is a dying job and has burned its trick box .

I wish all potential candidates success but I urge them to do a bit of a research before they get too involved

Short term solution! Anyone see today's company notams? WOW!!

[Wizofoz]

Silky,

You mean WRT CI?

IF this is down to minimising flying hours for the crew, it's an INCREDIBLE admission that thing have gotten critical!

[Dropp the Pilot]

Not often speechless but that is a mind-blower....

If someone had posted that notam here I would have assumed it was a very late April Fools exercise.

Whatever can it mean?

[BLOGGSON]

Surely it can only mean that schedules are so unrealistically tight, CI400 is the only practical way to crew them while keeping duty times to a minimum. Or fuel is about to become incredibly cheap. Yes, they must be desperate.

[Wizofoz]

Well, save 5 mins a sector per pilot, 3700 pilots doing, what? 200 sectors a year, equals 60 000 hours odd, or around 65 pilots a year doing 900 hours they don't have to recruit.

And it's only going to cost them and the environment a few tens of thousands of tonnes of fuel........

[Pilot_Recruit]

Wow...this can only mean one thing - a serious increase in our package! Paying the two guys up front an extra 20% per month would roughly cost less than one average sector at CI400. They may be stubborn, but there's no way they will be happy throwing that much money away. As we all know, money rules over everything with these guys therefore paying us a bunch more and attracting new recruits is the cheapest option.

[SOPS]

The word desperate comes to mind

[falconeasydriver]

Yes, they must be desperate.


Was my 1st thought when I read the notam, bloody noisy to at .854 at FL280:E

This looks as though it's a bandaid on an arterial bleed, and I wonder if it's coming out of a departments budget that's been running at a surplus etc, such that it will merely be hidden later on :E i.e. Idle reverse? Brake wear v fuel burn.

[sluggums]

I completely ignored the directive...it could be for political reasons...?

[alwayzinit]

:eek::ugh:
A picture paints a thousand words!

[lowstandard]

Lets Review:

*Protect the hub
*RTA
*Go fast
*Go slow
*Go really slow
*Protect the gates
*CI 400

Call Homer, there is a meltdown at the reactor!!

[Wizofoz]

I completely ignored the directive...it could be for political reasons...?

Possibly due to the GCAA looking to save face after the WSJ article- stand by for sign-on to be 1:30, which will make some turn-arounds impossible unless we go fast.

[BobDole]

About to? I think we've moved well beyond....

"Houston... We have a problem...." :D

Should be an interesting show for a while :E

[falconeasydriver]

Possibly due to the GCAA looking to save face after the WSJ article- stand by for sign-on to be 1:30, which will make some turn-arounds impossible unless we go fast.

Possibly Wiz, there was no nice little timeline in the briefing package on my last trip....see no evil, hear no evil...la la la la I see NOTHZING!

[B-HKD]

Are they really planning every flight at CI400 going forward?

Or is this up to discretion? Most other major operators allow their crews to use big CIs when necessary. Curfew, delays, to protect connections etc.

[glofish]

CI400 is bandaid culture. Go fast to join the DESDI hold must be some of the least intelligent measures, but reflects the knee jerk management of EK today.

However we sustain it as long as we can read silly ASRs (of today) where so called captains pretend they "had" to go into discretion :ugh::ugh::ugh: and have to be continuously "reminded" to submit a fatigue report. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

As long as this happens, no complaint about 90h+ will be taken seriously by the bounty castle.

Park the aircraft if out of regular FDR, ground yourself if fatigued and ffs submit these FRs! You want change, act accordingly.

[777-200LR]

CI 400 :D

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round

[Am NOT Sure]

Is there really a process for issuing those directives or is it left to one's imagination and good literature ?

If this continues the market will be flooded with 3800 pilots looking for jobs.

Sign me up for the next roadshow

[CamelRustler]

This month alone I have flown 3 trips (6 flights) where both sectors had flight time over block time in three cases in excess of 30 minutes. This is due to airspace closure. Costing me about 4 hours of flight pay. This airspace has been closed for more than a month now. This same company can find 3 aspirin on a 4 page hospital bill and payroll deduct the 6 dhs., due to the "over the counter" clause.:hmm:

[aileron droop]

just a quick question what is the usual CI ?? i know they vary but are they in the tens or hundreds at EK

cuz like 400 is a big number for my head to get around

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Great fun habibis, fastest I have ever been in the 777, .86 and they want me to fly it, awesome..

When I asked the dispatcher WTF the new "Policy" was, he chuckled and said quite a few had asked him that this morning :ugh:

Get to the aircraft bzzzz, and out the new Co/Notam comes out of the ACARS printer...

The wheels on the bus, go round and round..... Actually the wheels have fallen off.

SyB :zzz:

[Emma Royds]

This will do wonders for their OTP as we drop the parking brake with the tug connected and let the clock run, whilst being told there is a 10 minute delay for push. :}

[B-HKD]

Funny they dont plan CI400 on the ULRs. DXB-BOS/IAD/GRU/SEA and soon to be DXB-ORD are pushing it as is on the 777...

[trimotor]

A pessimist might suggest that, going forward, all flights will be 'rostered' with a block time based on CI400, but flown at more usual CI - the deliberate difference in schedule and actual block times being free flying pay for EK..

[RoyalEnfield]

Possibly Wiz, there was no nice little timeline in the briefing package on my last trip....see no evil, hear no evil...la la la la I see NOTHZING!

We didn't have a briefing timeline yesterday either. Did anyone have it today?

[JAYTO]

I have to agree with you Trimotor,

Do you think they are doing this for our benefit. We get paid "Rostered Block". CI400 will reduce that rostered block every month. Due to the usual environmental and ATC factors we will never be able to fly at that speed all the time. Your 95 hour month has just been reduced to 91 paid hours saving a shed load of overtime. They would rather burn the money than give it to us.
Now get back to work you lazy pilots.

J

[glofish]

I agree with tri.

Adding to the same illogical thinking (It sometimes pays to play golf with strangers and not outing yourself as pilot):

One of the middle management EK morons lately boasted that the 90+ hours per EK pilot are necessary because on average those lazy pilots take about two sick days per month, around 10 hours productivity. The company decided to increase monthly hours to cover for that and get at least 80h out of every pilot. Tit for tat!

Now according this stupid logic, any pilot not taking those 2 days effectively works overtime for free.

I asked if a similar calculation applied to office workers, he replied that this was not necessary as they worked on regular office hour schedules ........ :ugh:

[SuckItUp]

Its hiding in plain sight lads and m'lads......


"The CI is the ratio of the time-related cost of an airplane operation and the cost of fuel. The value of the CI reflects the relative effects of fuel cost on overall trip cost as compared to time-related direct operating costs.
In equation form: CI =Time cost ~ $/hrFuel cost ~ cents/lb


The flight crew enters the company-calculated CI into the control display unit (CDU) of the FMC. The FMC then uses this number and other performance parameters to calculate economy (ECON) climb, cruise, and descent speeds.


For all models, entering zero for the CI results in maximum range airspeed and minimum trip fuel. This speed schedule ignores the cost of time.


Conversely, if the maximum value for CI is entered, the FMC uses a minimum time speed schedule. This speed schedule calls for maximum flight envelope speeds, and ignores the cost of fuel"


Fuel is cheap as chips, so they finally have figured out that they can get a pile more productivity from us by reducing actual block time. How many more nautical miles can they get out of us lazy pilots and the Cabin Crew per month now?...........more fatigue and acceptable low levels of alertness....but it's legal right????..................


Maybe they are getting short of crew, and need to squeeze us all more.....who frigging knows. (Anyone still recall how we all happily took the productivity threshold increase to 92 hours in the starfish without so much as a whimper?).


At the end of the day, no matter WTF is going on, we can all be warm and fuzzy, as there is no doubt, that it will only benefit them. Whether its a crew shortfall due to the appalling treatment of us all, or 0.003 fils that can be made per flight......WE WILL PAY FOR IT.


Just do as you are told and stick your head back in the sand, and convince yourselves that although our terms have diminished an unbelievable amount in the last 10 years, we are still doing okay and seeing as we'll all be dead at 55 anyway, it's also okay that we cant save money anymore or invest in our, or our children's futures.


Remember.......A good Pilot knows that he should just SuckItUp..........:zzz:

[olster]

All good points but what does it matter if you end up in the Desdi hold for 20 minutes - very bizarre. Speed up to go around in circles. We live in strange times.

[SOPS]

I would suggest that the smartest person in the room that thought this one up, ignored the fact that aircraft spend a long time in the hold.

They just thought....'hey if we sped them up, we can cut a few hours off each roster, so we can whack a couple of more flights into each roster'.....

The fact that you are speeding towards the hold is beyond their comprehension.....

But boy it looks good on paper.

[Plane_Sailing]

Just playing devils advocate but if everyone speeds up then the guy at the front of the queue gets there faster ,so the holding should be about the same but total block time less.

[Fearless Leader]

How much more simply can it be said.

Well done Seaman Staynes:ok::ok:

[lospilotos]

Invitation received, 7th May 13:30. Be there or be square...

[donpizmeov]

Bugga, think I am washing my hair then.

[Wizofoz]

Still, they only hold the big theatrical event when it's some variety of good news.

[lowstandard]

Its going to be a good announcement, I just saw a large shipment of breast implants on the notoc to DWC.

[Rim-job]

Out of curiosity...

Did we get this kind of formal invitation on the years there was no profit share?

Better yet, did we get an invitation last year when it was a measly 3 weeks?

Just wondering... as my brain can't remember farther back then yesterdays India night turn around.

Rim

[Avid Aviator]

Yes, we got an invite for last year.
No formal function the previous years when 0 bonus, they just send an e-mail at 5pm Thursday!
So QED they see it as a "good news" announcement.
Will be interesting to see what the troops think! :)

[Panther 88]

Already sent my "respectful" question. Questions in the invitation were requested. "We were told that the increase in hours to 90+ was temporary. When can we expect relief from this and if not, why not?" Simple really. That seems to be the biggest complaint, here is a small chance and just maybe it has the potential to be addressed in a public forum. I will not hold my breath, however. If enough pilots ask a similar question, it might hold some weight.

[Wizofoz]

We were told that the increase in hours to 90+ was temporary.

Who said that, Panther?

I was at a training meeting the morning the increase to 92 hours prod threshold was made. Someone asked TCAS if it would be reduced back after the "crisis" was over, and after some pointed looking at his shoes, he said "I'm not going to make a promise I can't keep".

It was obvious that once gone it wasn't ever coming back.

[Neptune Spear]

Great! I'm expecting 14-16 weeks profit share. The largest profit share ever.
I'll be there and will walk out before the festivities are over if we don't get what we all expect and deserve.

[170to5]

I'd just like to add something, while we're predicting huge PS's:

TC has been quoted to me a few times now by skippers who are convinced by the NBC interview that we are about to announce a new record. I really hope we are, but a bit of caution before we keep going on.

What he actually said was that "we are about to announce some of the highest profits we have ever made".

It doesn't matter who made the money, Ek or dnata, it's the group profit that matters. But the 'some' bit DOES matter. 'Some of the highest' could mean the 4th highest, or the 6th highest. As with everything, it sounds like the biggest profit share ever is on the way, but in truth, and without making TC or HH a liar, we could get 2 weeks.

Everybody will rage and rant but they would hold their hands up (well, in reality they just wouldn't say anything) and say that they told the truth, it was us who jumped to the wrong conclusion as we have done so many times:

-Are they showing new joiners Meydan yet or are they still showing them DSO as examples of company housing? DSO IS company housing, after all...

-Are they telling guys not to expect all 42 days leave? I am given 42 days leave in my contract after all...

-Are they telling guys that to get their 'personal chauffeur service' (read the careers page) they will have to wait 25 minutes after they ask for it, share it with other guys who only live nearby, not next to, them (and will only be at the waiting area in ten minutes) and stay awake after that all night turnaround (which is actually illegal) because their chauffeur is so tired he keeps falling asleep at the wheel and swerving into the next lane?

Sorry for the rant, wanted to say that for a while...

[natops]

Showing up on the 7th, for what?

Spending a day off in hq? You must be kidding right?

And how much can they give us, they increased the flying hours in 2008 i believe with 30+ percent. So basicaly giving that much of a salary decrease, because extra hours were not paid.

If they will match that aaaaaand then a decent salary increase, so we can at least beat the 15 percent inflation, yes then i might show up.

Everything else is just a farce....
I'll be in my bed recovering during a planned vacation to get ready to be abused for another year before i get my next leave.

So that feels good, good night all
N:ok:

[kingpost]

Wiz

At the training meeting when TCAS was asked, he said the 92 hours would stay for productivity payments but we would still be rostered to 78 hours.......anyway, that lasted 2 months!!

[donpizmeov]

Agreed Kingpost. He did say 92hrs would not become a target. However his lips did move. I wonder why it is spelt tCas.

[pilotguy1222]

still trying to drop a trip. IF that happens, I will be happy to waste part of my day at HQ and I will gladly ask why flights are being planned at a CI that the aircraft can't safely and comfortably fly.....is it so the pilots can fly more time at no cost to EK?

A few of the whiz-bangs we employ ran the numbers with oil at $80 per barrel for the last quarter, after the hedges ran out.
It showed a 12week profit share. The issue is that oil has been NOWHERE near that price for the last 3 months. So it should be far above that.

The issue with the raise is that it is permanent. The PS is only a one time pay, so much easier for them to swallow. But recruitment is hurting badly and only a healthy increase everywhere is gonna fix that.

Here's hoping.

[clear to land]

Just curious pilotguy-are you a real pilot? Can't safely fly at CI400-really? What is the max CI the FMC takes- (hint-it is 4 figures so a lot more than 400)-which is within the certification envelope of the aircraft-ie already has a safety margin built in. What is the Mmo? If we are going to complain-which needs to be done-at least do it based on facts-otherwise all arguments are invalid. It doesn't matter how many good points you have-as soon as you sprout BS you are discredited on all. :ugh:

[delorean79]

I don't have any problem in flying at CI400 close to the Barber, because I know that filling an overspeed ASR won't affect my future upgrade chances.

[Payscale]

P11 take care of CI400...for the initiated;)

[Yossarian]

The risk of an over speed with CI400 is obviously higher, but seriously boys, put the paper down and manage it. It's not that hard. As to why it's being applied, it seems like a final panic move to alleviate the pilot shortage. But what do I know? And, as usual, they ain't saying. Let's see what the announcement brings in a few days. Money is the band aid, but will they supply the antibiotic?

[jack schidt]

10,000,000 Pounds per annum sponsorship for 2 ribbons to be attached to the "FA Cup". A 1 off event with a few minutes exposure on the lifting of the FA cup!

The "Emirates" FA Cup

J

[Instant Hooligan]

FA Cup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup)

736 Teams last year and season long exposure


Not that I agree with 30 million

[MosEisley]

None of that will matter when planes stop moving

[BLOGGSON]

I for one want to see an increase in the per diems when down route. I'm fed up having to pay from my own money to fill my kite and get bladdered on every layover, tsk.

[fatbus]

If the boy Capts don't like CI 400 then don't do it.

[777747]

Sick days are an effective tool all crew (captains) need to utilise. Manage your fatigue/92 hrs a month with a sick day or two a month (preferably near the end of the month to mitigate roster recovery), its a message the company gets. No manager will put in writing they want you to fly sick or fatigued. GCAA is on the airlines (EK and unmentionable) side but they won't tolerate breaking the rules that blatantly as they strive for their ICAO recognition.
The pressure the company puts on you is expected: removal of self certification , delayed upgrade, denied captain transition from A330/340 to A380 etc.
Go to the clinic, certify your lack or sleep from back to back roster and manage your 92 hrs a month. Get your upgrade, manage your roster.
Its not the answer, its a message to management.

Word is 10 freighter flights have already been parked/pawned off on other contractors due lack of crew. Call sick and this may translate through to Pax flights. The management will sit up. Heads will roll if pax flights are parked. fight back.

[kipper the dog]

Pax flights are already being cancelled.

[fatbus]

What flts being cnx ?

[kingpost]

I spoke to someone from a freight carrier yesterday, they get paid overtime from 65 hours, which, for arguments sake is a bit low, so add an extra 10 hours, that is still 17 below EK. We have no idea on how we're being screwed!

They have a day off buy back scheme, the company pays $2500 per day!!

We have fallen so far behind, I don't think we can ever catch up to "real" airline rates!

[kingpost]

I spoke to someone from a freight carrier yesterday, they get paid overtime from 65 hours, which, for arguments sake is a bit low, so add an extra 10 hours, that is still 17 below EK. We have no idea on how we're being screwed!

They also have a day off buy back scheme, the company pays $2500 per day!!

We have fallen so far behind, I don't think we can ever catch up to "real" airline rates!

[TheDarkHorse]

Kingpost - At least EK if you do get called on a day off you can bargain with them. FZ get 2 extra hours of flight pay on top of normal and nothing more. No extra day off, no trying to get little extra's on your roster etc.

[bogeydope]

Who would answer their phone in the first place on a precious day off?????:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[TheDarkHorse]

Bogey - no one should but the point I'm trying to make is referencing the deterioration with regards to the previous post from King.

[White Sausage]

So??? I'm sure at McDonalds they get even less for an off day... What's your point? Just because at FZ it's even worse than here doesn't make it any better... You should compare big, long haul airlines with the likes, not with low cost, short haul.

[TheDarkHorse]

Thanks for that educationally condescending post W.S. My point was to compare two carriers operating in the same home base. You say compare it to other long haul carriers - that's great but start doing that and we then start opening another can of worms regarding certain enforceable labour laws etc.

I didn't say it makes it any better! I was merely making a point which last time I checked I was fully entitled to do.

[AlanPardew]

He has a point, you have to compare like for like.

No need for the little man syndrome.

Alan

[sluggums]

But Alan, you are a little man, oops, sorry wrong surname...:E

[TheDarkHorse]

Alan,

I'm fully aware he has a point - no need for the quip about the little man syndrome.

He also mentioned that FZ is low cost - but they don't advertise anymore as "low cost". Last time I checked EK does short haul as well yes? Operating MCT, BAH etc. Is that not short haul or should I stop comparing the short haul part because its being operated by EK on a widebody.

Why do we have people comparing Southwest to AA/DL etc. Are they not different? But yet being an american carrier and benefits etc people compare them to EK and how staff are treated.

Regardless of this I think I'd rather watch the news coverage of the G.Election than go listen how great things are et al...

[Emma Royds]

Pax flights are already being cancelled.

Just been on eswap and there are gaps in May where there are only two, instead of the usual three daily CGK flights.

There has already been one 48 hour CGK stopover very recently.

[pilotguy1222]

hmmmm...well excuse me for using the word "safely". CI....Don't know what it goes to, and don't really care. 4 digits eh....cool. Climbing out at 330kts with a 5kt buffer? Not fun. Cruising the last 6hr flight....speed break 4x to prevent overspeeds, and once to full extension. You can call it what you like. :rolleyes:

[TSHEKUDU]

JUMPSEATS coming to mind, applying the same rules that apply to roster when it comes roster swaps, not putting a duty in between your 5 days off, and it will cost the company nothing, but it will keep a lot of pilots happy..... Just my 5cents

[The Turtle]

If they give us less than 20 weeks and 20 percent we are getting screwed (again)

[natops]

anybody planning to go?

[sluggums]

Hahaha, that's funny.... Anybody going....:}

[Praise Jebus]

anybody planning to go?

Is there free beer? No. Then why on earth would you??

[Payscale]

Well...he is probably right. We all talk about the mass exodus that never come. I will bet you the same people are around next year also saying they will promptly leaving if such and such doesn't happen... its a new concept..The Dubai Syndrom

[Dropp the Pilot]

In the briefing stands a pilot
And a flyer by his trade
And he carries the reminders
Of EK rosters dragging on
And scarred him till he cried out
In his anger and his shame,
"I am leaving, I am leaving."
But the pilot still remains

[FNGDXB]

Not this pilot!

[White Knight]

Dropp... That's good... But so 70s!!!

I still like it��

[CamelRustler]

Perhaps there will be some. But this is the first time since I have been here that I know several pilots who have their apps out to other airlines. I reckon 300 gone by the end of the year. Me included. While the $ is an issue. (Promised or implied vs. received) the main issue are the rosters. I quite simply can not do what they are requiring me to do. My schedule goes from day to night 10 times this month, all with 8 days off. This is a problem I do not see going away anytime soon. So I will be going away. I really really wanted to stay, but also really want to see my kids grow up and live past 57. So even if its 20 weeks and 20% I am still gone, as the $ is not main issue it's the rosters.

[thefoxandfirkin]

One for Dropp following on from 70's ditty:

There was a young pilot who'd whine
he was working harder each year on the line
The money was less, the job had more stress
and the profit share smaller each time!

Seems about right I reckon:}

[SOPS]

Counting myself, Payscale, I personally 8 pilots, who have either left since the end of March, of are currently working through their resignation period. People are leaving.

[AlanPardew]

SOPS you need to get a hobby

[vfenext]

SOPS, have you quit EK? I've just checked all your posts for the last few months and you only mention the fact about 5000 times. Just wondered if you could confirm its true. I guess that's the reason the wheels are falling off.

[Nikita81]

SOPS, have you quit EK? I've just checked all your posts for the last few months and you only mention the fact about 5000 times.

And whenever I check the forum you are trolling and bullying people. And that is the real reason why the wheels are falling off.

[falconeasydriver]

anybody planning to go?

Will be there, a few things to sort out with HR regarding my impending departure, seems to be something worth doing before escape and evasion :E

[Yossarian]

SOPS, as some of your posts may appear condescending to those stuck in the mire, with sleep deprivation and raw nerve endings, may I respectfully advise some self-editing.

However, to those criticising his posts, suggesting a hobby etc, may I suggest that we all have an intrinsic right to be here and to speak our piece, as 'professional pilots' on what was once a professional pilot's network.

As for the 7th, the only true reflection of our disdain will be the empty hall.

[glofish]

True, but there are enough sycophants to cheer the emperors clothes.
No message can get to the ones who chose not to listen, only to be cheered and given awards.

[jaggynettle]

Those wanting 20 weeks will be disappointed. Source says it willl be highest ever but not that high. So will be more than 14 weeks but not 20.

[fatbus]

Sources , really. Don't go getting your nickers in a twist . Less than 48 hrs.

[nakbin330]

A 'Results' meeting yesterday - 2 weeks!

Rumour of course.

[Ana_Cleto]

Emirates Airline had its "second most profitable year" ever in 2014 - Transport - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/emirates-airline-had-its-second-most-profitable-year-ever-in-2014-591712.html)

[Kamelchaser]

Hate to be a doomsayer but "second most profitable year ever" doesn't bode well for a bumper profit share. Unfortunately despite the ship falling apart around them, I really can't see these people accepting that they have to pay out big time to solve their problems. I think the culture and arrogance is just too ingrained.

[Yossarian]

It's like watching a drunk crew trying to bail out a leaking submarine. If you don't close the hatch, it ain't gonna work.

[ChillinInTheDesert]

Hmm. Second most profitable year. My bets on 10 or 12 weeks.

[JAYTO]

You can't look at it as if it's that simple.
How many employees did EK have when they posted their biggest profit.
I think you may find that the profit needs to be shared amongst a lot more people this time.
Prepare to be disappointed.

J.

[Saltaire]

Agreed. 8 weeks. More interested in the pay review.

[GoreTex]

8 weeks would be good, pay rise I don't care because its for the long run and there is no future here anyway

[BigGeordie]

8 weeks would be a total insult with all the extra flying we have been doing compared to the last big payout. Remember the payrise also goes onto your provident fund which will make a difference to how quickly you can get out of here.

[Wizofoz]

It's not based on how big the profit is, but how much the profit exceeded the target.

This years target was pretty modest- the drop in the oil-price has been a big free-be to Emirates.

[Buford]

From memory the last biggest one was in 2006...anyone remember what it was?

[The Turtle]

16 weeks....and EK can't hide this windfall from the fuel savings, other airlines are touting it as a major reason their profitable. If EK doesn't also claim this, then, well, it justifies others' claims that EK never paid a market price for fuel......doesn't it?


I also agree with the post that "It doesn't matter what the amount of profit....its the spread between target." And recall EK was very scared that the single runway would cock-up operations, which it didn't. Target was 3.something......prepared to get paid

[kipper the dog]

So time to bring up this ol' chestnut again, as general consensus would appear to be that we might get something with regards to a bonus - how is it calculated?

Is it your monthly salary (as found on the portal under HR direct) divided by 4 then multiply number of weeks bonus? Or is the EK "week" five days and not seven?

We go through this every time they dish out the crumbs :uhoh:

[donpizmeov]

Monthly basic multiply by 12. Divide the answer by 52 to get the per week amount.

[Nedul]

Kip
Just checked last year's....
Monthly basic off of pay slip
X12
Divide by 52
And voila!!!!!

Square root of s**t all!
Equates to 7 days not 5!

[Wizofoz]

rom memory the last biggest one was in 2006...anyone remember what it was?

5.4B DHS, and the second largest was 4.4.

Target for this year was 3.7, so they have clearly exceeded it by around a billion.

[kipper the dog]

Thanks fellas!

[You rock]

5.4B DHS, and the second largest was 4.4.

Target for this year was 3.7, so they have clearly exceeded it by around a billion.

Good Day Gents

Here is my 2 cents worth

2011 FY group profit 5.9, target was 4.25 I think, hence 1.6 billion or so above, payout 12 weeks

2008 FY group profit 5.3, can't remember the target but payout was 14 weeks

If we assume second largest and split it down the centre say 5.6 group profit with a target of 3.7 that is 1.9 billion above the threshold, so I could be blowing wind up my you know where but I would have to think 13 to 14 weeks adjusted for employee group increasing.

However just getting annual leave would be a bonus, either way guys we should get something, completely hypothetical of course.

regards

YR

[BigGeordie]

Do Fly Dubai have the 3% step every year? I know that isn't part of the pay rise (whatever the company say) but I'm just curious as to whether they got that as well as the increase in flight pay.

For what it is worth, I think EK will give us a "cost neutral" adjustment by eliminating overtime and giving a small rise in flight pay. Then roster everybody to 100 hours a month.

I know the pay rise was late being announced last year but can anybody remember when we are supposed to hear about it?

[donpizmeov]

Pay rise up until last year was announced last Thursday April to early May. Last year it was announced in June, but back paid to May.

Years ago, when new joiners were scarce, the rise was announced in December but not paid until May.

I wish they would get rid of flight pay altogether and just improve the basic.

[fliion]

Last years pay review letter was emailed June 16th.

f.

[Rather Be Skiing]

Do Fly Dubai have the 3% step every year? ...

I understand FlyDubai gave all the employees a 6% pay rise and were told not to tell the pilots because the pilots got... 0! That according to a pilot I spoke to.

[headerbjk]

Target for 2014-2015 is 3.9bn Aed and we made 2.1bn during first 6 months....

With all factors included it looks like we're getting something between 13-15 weeks...

[fatbus]

STC has publicly stated 2 nd best profit , prepare to be disappointed tomorrow .

[120feet]

Sounds painfully familiar, Yet it's supposed to be funny. Remember they already took the sandwich (See T/C) and are handing you back the crumbs.

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/WF1IDd9N3g0T8NJoE7JMrA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTE4NztweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02MDA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ucomics.com/dt150506.gif

[delorean79]

You Rock, I'm of the same opinion. 14 weeks if EK was the same size...

How big are we now compared to 2011? If we doubled, it will be 7 weeks, if the company was 2/3rds of what it is now, it will be 9.

The profit share is not the key here. I'm looking forward to know about the pay review, allowances, etc.

[You rock]

You Rock, I'm of the same opinion. 14 weeks if EK was the same size...

How big are we now compared to 2011? If we doubled, it will be 7 weeks, if the company was 2/3rds of what it is now, it will be 9.

The profit share is not the key here. I'm looking forward to know about the pay review, allowances, etc.

We are 3000 people bigger since 2011. In the grand scheme it ain't that much more to share around

[You rock]

We are 3000 people bigger since 2011. In the grand scheme it ain't that much more to share around

And yes I really don't care about profit share I'm with the rest on here. More lifestyle more pay

Regards
Yr

[Kempus]

Over the next 3 months we will see:

4 weeks profit share

8% increase in basic (inclusive of step if you get it)

10% increase in flying hours

Banked leave being purchased back

Some kind of re alignment with allowances and flight pay ie removal of allowances and increase of flight pay


And just to keep you motivated

http://youtu.be/I4qh_9vH1Ww


Kempus

[Cloud Bunny]

I'm not planning on anything but I think 4 weeks, given the fact it's the second biggest profit ever, would be scandalous and serious questions would have to be asked - hopefully during the Q&A session after the announcement.
Sadly (or not depending how you look at it) I'm on a trip tomorrow so wont be able to be at the meeting or will know the outcome until much later in the day.
I wont predict anything but anything less than 12 weeks and I would say we have been well and truly diddled.

[Outatowner]

Cloud Bunny, I'm also crushed not to be attending the presentation but I'm comforted knowing that four floors of drones will be instructed by their supervisors to down tools and wave the flag when the time comes.




https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/32/c1/2c/32c12cb856025563550391f1e09c7f2b.jpg

[BigGeordie]

Mr Staynes, they can increase flight deck pay without giving the whole company a a pay rise. They can also increase pay for the rest of the company and give us nothing. The system is designed that way to cope with recruitment problems and is why we have separate grades (FDxx instead of EKxx). I believe the engineers have a similar system.

[bia botal]

Cloud Bunny, I'm also crushed not to be attending the presentation but I'm comforted knowing that four floors of drones will be instructed by their supervisors to down tools and wave the flag when the time comes.

Probably not a good day to go in about being moved to meydan! No one will be there😜!

Any guessing on this years profit share target, I'm guessing it will be quite LARGE!!!

[You rock]

Arabian Business reporting 1.5 Billion USD group profit, if the target is 3.7 billion aed then that makes it 5.5 billion, so by my numbers that equals 1.8 billion above the threshold, makes me think around 13 to 14 weeks adjusted for employee group of 3000 people since 2011.

however probably incorrect

regards

YR

[Thebigblue]

http://m.gulfnews.com/business/aviation/emirates-group-profits-up-34-per-cent-1.1506587

Don't get too excited, not really stellar profits. Expect 5 or 6 weeks

[fatbus]

Do remember it's 25% of the profit over the target .

[Omar_Baba]

Anyone know what the disappointment factor is yet??? this financial results app is another chocolate teapot from the IT department.... those guys should get a pay cut!!!

[fatbus]

EGIT at their finest again , what a joke!

[boeingoriaintgoing]

This annual report app is crap. it doesn't work.
:ugh:

[CAT3A]

Another EGIT app that failed

[pilotrob23]

I hear 9 weeks

[Buford]

Yep, same - 9 weeks.

[jack schidt]

If you can please downgrade your system to Explorer - 1.1 then it should work fine :bored:

Now lets all be quiet and wait patiently.....

J

9 weeks is NOT a deal breaker for EK, not good enough I would say..

[flaphandlemover]

Thats the neckbreaker.,., 9 weeks...

[170to5]

Well I won't complain about getting 9 weeks but I will say that there had better be a damn good pay rise now! I suspect, however, it'll be less than 10% which will do nothing to help, because it needs to be 25% - and that ain't going to happen!

[Mr Good Cat]

But everyone with inside information promised me 20 weeks!

And now I'm all disappointed. Awwww...

Now I have to stay an extra 6 months before I resign. Hmmmppphhhhh... :mad:

[gardenshed]

If nine weeks is what it is so be it, I wonder how much was siphoned off beforehand to pay off Dubai's debts.
It's a nice little handout, however unless the pay deal is outstanding ( Unlikely), it's not going to stop the rot and general decline into Gulf Air Mk 2.
Interesting that it's not out on the Portal as yet, normally with the good news it's shouted from the roof tops, strangely quiet.

[afcwxm]

So cue next question how do we calculate actually how much Wonga we will get??

divide multiply by 7 minus 8 multiplied by 4 etc.. etc.. I know I'm too lazy to work it out anyone got a simple formula?

[Mr Good Cat]

So cue next question how do we calculate actually how much Wonga we will get??

divide multiply by 7 minus 8 multiplied by 4 etc.. etc.. I know I'm too lazy to work it out anyone got a simple formula?

Basic monthly salary x12 divide by 52 then x9

[kaine]

It's your basic monthly salary x 12 (months) divided by 52 (weeks)

[Mr Good Cat]

Basic monthly salary x12 divide by 52 then x9

It's about 80,000 dhs or 21,500 dollars for a skipper.

[three eighty]

Salary x 12 / 52 for weekly salary.

[aeropix]

(Basic salary x 12 / 52) x 9 = profit share

[Praise Jebus]

Sometimes I wonder how our jets get airborne...

[Rotaiva]

So is 9 weeks an opinion or fact?? Can someone please clarify..

[aeropix]

It's something we are owed. When it's in the contact. That's why it's disappointing whenever the figures are manipulated to decrease or minimize what we are owed.

It's better if we all stop calling it "Bonus" to remember this fact. It's Profit Share.

[bogeydope]

Praise Jebus

I'm with you on that one!!

[170to5]

Check your emails gentlemen...

Next year's target... 7.7Bn!!!!!!

Anyone?? No?

[Silky]

Anyone else remember that the PS was paid on the new salary scale in the distant past! Is this now the reason why it has been defeated to June for review ISO at the beginning of the fiscal year?? Would equate to maybe another 5k...

[bia botal]

Profit share this year target is 7.7 bil. No profit share next year then at CI 400 :ugh:

[BigGeordie]

They always do that after they get the maths wrong and have to make a bigger payout than they would like to. The next year they make sure we don't get much.

[Dropp the Pilot]

On no occasion has profit share ever been paid with reference to the "new" pay scale. It will be, and always has been, related to the basic pay number you can see on April's pay check.

[kaine]

At 7.7 billion that's nearly doubled! There is no way we're gonna get anything next year :{

[LHR Rain]

They stole our Bonus again!
How much more of this corruption can I take?
This is absolutely ridiculous.

[kaine]

I am just kinda naively hoping that the bonus was clawed back to then increase the package next week. Guess I'm crazy but here's hoping...:hmm:

[bia botal]

kaine At 7.7 billion that's nearly doubled! There is no way we're gonna get anything next year

Your guaranteed extra flight pay!!!

[Check 'Six']

So now we wait for the infamous pay review. Oh boy! :ugh:

[AlanPardew]

7.7bn target next year.

Keep half aside from this year and treat yourself a 4.5wk profit share in 12 months.

Alan

[donpizmeov]

Stop looking at all the negative stuff. Remember, the company has to make just a tad of $US2 Billion next year, and you receive a full two weeks profit share.
Oh...wait there...

[Rather Be Skiing]

I am just kinda naively hoping that the bonus was clawed back to then increase the package next week. Guess I'm crazy but here's hoping...:hmm:

Ya, you're crazy! 😉

[Mr Good Cat]

I am just kinda naively hoping that the bonus was clawed back to then increase the package next week. Guess I'm crazy but here's hoping...:hmm:

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

Oh... You were being serious.

Can I refer you to the clinic for a CDT test?

[kaine]

3% I'm sure. Keep discovering huh :ugh:

[Ketools]

So...
1st 6 months we make 1.9B
Due to rwy closure the profit was reduced by 1.0b, so we would have made 2.9B given no rwy closure.

Full year profit 5.5B. We made 2.2B savings due to lower price of oil. That means 5.5 -2.2 = 3.7 given no oil price drop.

So in the 2nd half we made 3.7 - 1.9 = 1.4B profit given no oil proce drop. And that is with 24 aircraft deliveries!

I smell a rat!

[fatbus]

Go onto HR direct find your basic x 12 divide by 52 x 9 . If it was not for the drop in fuel costs it might have been zero.

[alwayzinit]

"Montencee, I think the reasons for the lack of interest are something along the lines of:
a) Whatever the results we will get screwed over.
b) One hell of a lot of people have mentally move on from EK, so aren't bothered.
c) the money thrown about is not the issue that is driving people away, it's the lack of a life/leave, no recovery and being treated like dung.
Just my twopenn'uth"

As posted on the 22nd Apr. item a) called it. b)and c) Still apply as nothing has changed.

7.7 Billion for next year. Oh please!

[thefoxandfirkin]

Were going to have to do a shed load more flying to get that new lovely target. I so cant wait.....:*

[Round D. Globe]

Anybody know when the payout will occur?

[cerbus]

May's paycheck.
I was really expecting more. 9 weeks means there is some funny math going on and as usual we take the blunt end of it.
Turkish is looking better and better all the time.

[TangoUniform]

I am grateful for the huge 9 week profit share. But I see it as an insult to the entire Group for the incredible hard work all have done for the past 2+ years.

[natops]

Back to CI 40, already looking fwd to the payreview...

9 weeks, wonder what the bonusses r for the managers...

7.7 Billion target.... Seriously?!

Disappointed.... Dont see any reason to go the extra mile with such a target...

[B-HKD]

I doubt they would set 7.7 as a target if it really werent viable.

[Trader]

I am grateful as well! Not many places give 9 week bonus'.

However, it is out working conditions that are the issue. Hopefully a LARGE raise and an immediate reduction to 80 hours a month is coming. Pay us the OT until you get crew levels up - but we have to KNOW that the hours are coming down.

No one will come and more will leave unless they make a serious move on the pay review.

[SOPS]

TCAS gets 8 times 9. Good money for some wheely bags.

[Neptune Spear]

Of course it is viable as long as they will have a proper accounting transaction.
What are the world's airlines reporting? 1 Billion profit for a quarter and Emirates can "only" manage $1.9 Billion or the year.
Oil is probably not going to be any lower, the labor costs are the lowest in the industry by far and they have no curfew or pesky Regulator to get in the way of printing money.
Their profit should be $4 to $5 Billion and that is US.
9 weeks is way below par.
Here's hoping I won't be around for next years "announcement". I'm sure it will be another huge disappointment.

[B-HKD]

Fuel bill for this 14-15' was 2.8bn vs 3.0bn for 13-14. Unless they cooked that figure, there is plenty to be saved going forward.

[TangoUniform]

Bet on it....the working conditions will not get any better in the near future. Doubt if they will pay "the extra mile" for work (hours). So the only solution to tap down the masses was to throw some serious dhs at us. Which they decided NOT to do. They did NOTHING to change the game for all the employees. Someone said....GulfAir 2.0

[SubsonicMortal]

American Airlines posted a record profit in the first quarter of $932 million or $1.30 per share.

Not counting special items the world's largest airline also reported a record first quarter profit of $1.2 billion, or $1.73 per share, three times the profit earned at the start of 2014.

We are obviously doing something wrong. I suspect not enough of us are complying with the engine-out taxi request.

[Old King Coal]

Expect a chorus line of (faux) EK 'Cabin Crew' to soon be singing this in some HR-Dept / Recruitment advert soon ! ;)

Gold Diggers - "We're in the Money" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJOjTNuuEVw)

[fliion]

To put the numbers in perspective.

In 2009 we took a 15% pay cut (78-92)

Since then we have had raises totaling 5.5% - this does not include step 3% - that is not a raise.

So we are down 9.5% since 2009. A 10% pay raise on top of step gets us monetarily back to square one. I won't even go down the QOL rd.

So anything less than 13% on June 16th will be another "take it or leave it" mgt model move.

On the target next year - perhaps some, perspective:

The runway closure cost 1.7bn - so if we add that to 5.5bn we get 7.2bn.

If oil stays between 58-73 (FTs analysts ranges for FY '15) then we have a chance at 7.7bn as this years profit had six months of $90+. The fuel savings to the bottom line in Q 3&4 were 1.5bn. If we get 12 mos at sub $70 - 8bn is doable without a global 'event'

It won't be nine weeks - that's for sure.

So roll on June 16th....and let's see if they are really serious...otherwise with 20+ deliveries they will need to park planes or increase the monthly flying to high 90's - unsustainable.

f.

[donpizmeov]

fliion,
Pay review should be before May 15th to be in the May pay. Last year was the first when it was delayed. I really hope we don't go through that again.

[flaphandlemover]

Don, wasn't there a year where it took them a couple of month for the salary review to come out?

I stand corrected..

[Big Buddha]

F..., I've never seen anything this flat, nobody happy, sad, pissed off....just nothing! We are in trouble

[fliion]

Don - I believe the big delay was to July 2013 - where after a long wait we received letter of step plus 0.5% retroactive to May 2013 pay check.

That was when things got really toxic as over the last three years we have gad a prorated increase of 0.5% divided over three years === 0.17% pa. That is not a joke to those who are new on here.

Last June 16, although late was closer to end of May than 2013.

Yes agree with above, no question the worst state of affairs re morale & sentiment. Much worse actually that the GFC when we took the big hit.

A huge part of the problem though is "delivery & tone" from Fleet mgt. An improvement on that front would be cost neutral for the Co. but somehow soft skills from above continues to evade our seniors.

It's very puzzling to vast majority of us who possess common sense logic (alcohol free ; > )

f.

[GoreTex]

I guessed 8 we got 9, the people who guessed 16 and more need reality check, we are still in the ME

[Trader]

....and DEC starting at 10 yr captain scale
....new FO's will be starting (apparently) at the 3rd year scale

....to make it more attractive....

[donpizmeov]

fliion,


Only have the letters from 2009. Dates as follows, 27/04/09; 06/05/10; 11/05/11; 15/05/12; 15/05/13; 16/06/14.


Our leave use to be all done by Dec as well. Yet no warning letters to those concerned.


Keep recovering.

[GA Button]

DECs starting at 10 year scale? Please - rumours gone mad.

[Macrohard]

flion - 78 hours to 92 hours for productivity in '09, more like 18% loss, without so much as a whimper ....
If salary was to match the extra work, multiplied by 6 years at 3% per annum, we would need a rise of approx 22% to place us at parody of our wages back in '09!

[ekwhistleblower]

We are placed at 'parody' with our '09 wages!:oh:

I quite like giving the signal that things will improve of moving the overtime threshold back to where it was but it will never happen. If we don't start to attract more crew the working conditions will deteriorate further and the leave promised in our contracts will never be achieved. Why do the company not approve conditions that have no material effect on safety or cost but would be of big benefit to crew and improve morale at a stroke.

[FL3]

Can someone tell me what was the profit share target for 2014-15?
TIA

[fliion]

The 2014/15 Group profit target was 3.7bn dhs. The year before it was 4.22bn. Reduced due runway closure.

The first half of 2014/15 - 2.2bn profit 2nd half 3.3bn - total 5.5bn

f.

[mutt]

I am grateful as well! Not many places give 9 week bonus'. Just to put things in perspective, an airline slightly west of you are paying a 30% contract bonus following a 3 year contract, so thats a 15.6 week annual bonus!

[vfenext]

Yes Mutt but for that you have to work/live in KSA. Thanks but no thanks.

[harry the cod]

Trader

Please, rumours is one thing, stirring the pot with complete bull is another. Regardless of our current apathy with the Airline and the rather lacklustre response to 9 weeks, perhaps credit where credit's due. Salary scales have always remained constant.

The profit share may not be the panacea to our grievances within this Company but a 'Ryanair' we are not. If HR do start changing the scales, I start changing my report time to 60 minutes. :cool:

Harry

[Am NOT Sure]

No change of salary scales


I would love to engage in another bash but this one is BS

[glofish]

Scaling is for real! New FOs have a higher basic than those being here for 2 years and if i believe right, apparently DECs in 2004 started on the fourth year salary .....
I wouldn't be surprised by a A and B scale in the very near future.

[Trader]

The 'rumor' came from someone in training. Yes, it could be untrue. What was said is that in an attempt to get 330 DECs they offered new DECs a big jump in where they started on the CURRENT scale!

The rumor is that new FOs are being offered s start at the 3rd year.

I know for a FACT that there are various analyst teams within EK working on trying to make the job more marketable to new hires. They are looking at area like staff travel etc because they are having a very difficult time recruiting.

[Kapitanleutnant]

You wonder if it's really a puzzle to recruiters that they can't find enough pilot wanting to come to EK.

I recall my days attending an EK Road Show and it was standing room only!! Wow, have times changed…. for the worse.


Kap

[flaphandlemover]

I know for a FACT that there are various analyst teams within EK working on trying to make the job more marketable to new hires. They are looking at area like staff travel etc because they are having a very difficult time recruiting.

You might want to refrase....

Our (s)crewing team is trying to spin the evident truth into a positiv fiction to lure inocent people into the dragons den...

And once here you will receive a warm welcome letter (written verbal warning)
to underline EKs good will in changing for the better.

[Laker]

what good is staff travel if you are constantly at or near min days off per month, rarely get more than 30 days of leave per year, and must be back in base several days before a ULR (generally the only time you get 4+ days off in a row)? Heaven help anyone who misses the flight back to Dubai and has to call in sick from an outstation.

[Deep and fast]

I'm always up for an adventure and considered Emirates as a possible, but how could anyone think it's a good idea to resign for a company with such a bad report as this one!

I the situation changes and things improve I'll apply. Simple.

[pilotguy1222]

Haven't heard the DEC pay rumor, but I know the FO "advertisement" is showing salary WITH flt pay to make it look nicer.

[new tomcat]

Of course Emirates will pay new hires or DECs more if they have to. They did this in the past and are probably doing this again today.
About 10 years ago they were offering DECs anywhere from 8-10 year pay rates to attract pilots. I know this because I was offered these rates but thank God I thought better of it. Things seem to be really bad there and they have to offer something substantial to attract pilots.

[kipper the dog]

Aren't you the guy that failed DEC selection, and been a bit chippy about it ever since..?
They do need to increase the package substantially though, if they are to get out of the hole they are in. Personally I think they would rather watch the ship sink than do do anything that might improve our lot.

As people keep saying, Gulf air version 2.

[Wizofoz]

Yeah, new tomcat is a bit fast and loose with the truth a lot of the time. At one time EK WERE offering DECs 3RD year pay as a starting salary, but that finished in 2006.

[Red Hackle]

When will the Profit Share be paid? Normally in May but nothing was mentioned at the announcement?
Thanks

[170to5]

When will the Profit Share be paid? Normally in May but nothing was mentioned at the announcement?
Thanks

It actually was, May salary!

[fatbus]

New Capt start at level 13 are you saying DECs are at 16?

[JAYTO]

This little Gem keeps popping up. People are looking at the website and seeing a salary quoted that is higher than a year 1 FO or a year 1 DEC base salary. What they fail to see is the fine print that states the figure is based on 80 or so hours of flying. In reality we are all doing more than 80 hours so the figure quoted is actually less than the new hire can realistically expect to earn in the current situation.

[OzoneAddict]

Pilots apart from profit sharing expectations and predictions:-
Has anyone got a recent, average pay scale for captains of International Carriers, namely the EK; QA; ET; SING; CX; DELTA; AA; CS; Kor etc?
I saw article of 37% increase at Korean?