upgrade to left seat in Emirates and Qatar [Archive]

Dking737

14th Apr 2015, 07:20

Does anyone any real numbers how many FOs have been upgraded in these 2 airlines in the last 2 years......and how does the future look for an upgrade for guys who are joining these respective airlines this year .

Avenger

14th Apr 2015, 13:20

Qatar Airways Careers - Current Opportunities (http://careers.qatarairways.com/qatarairways/VacancyDetail.aspx?VacancyID=81972)

You can do the maths. 2000 hrs is approximately 3/4 years. Experienced 737 Captains are being told after 2000 hrs as FO could be considered for upgrade. Average seems to be between 6 and 9 years for FO to Captain

Flytdeck

16th Apr 2015, 06:27

dc10fr8k9

16th Apr 2015, 10:07

Had an interesting discussion on the flight deck about promotions. One observation was that experienced F/Os were being held back from the promotion process as they wanted them on the flight deck to work with inexperienced Direct Entry Captains coming from other airlines with minimum left seat time.

Rumor or fact? No idea......

Dear "Held Back" ,

I am a high experience FO on 777 at QR, I was eligible for "fast track" command in late December. Not two weeks past my eligibility date, I was already contacted for command upgrade process. Starting course in May. I wasn't held back at all, not in the least.

pilotguy1222

16th Apr 2015, 20:15

Guys in my class, or just prior (early 2011) had their upgrade interviews at the 3 1/2 year mark on the 330/340. One has just finished his line training. So almost exactly 4 years from his 1st EK line flight.
Guys who went 380 (forced or requested) from the same period are interviewing over the next 2 months. May and June.
Don't think it will be the same for new joiners now.

Dking737

16th Apr 2015, 23:51

I wanted to ask you how many years have you spent in QR before you came up for your command upgrade??? How is the command upgrade process?? What is the pass percentage in command upgrade process?? How many FOs are being upgraded in QR presently per year?? I am potential candidate who would be joining QR in the near future. I have approx 4200hrs on a medium jet, how long would it take for a guy like me to be considered for upgrade to the left if I join this year??any info would be appreciated.

Machspeed

18th Apr 2015, 08:44

Who knows at EK. Funny thing is they have stopped the upgrades on the B777 as they don't have enough FOs and would be forced to cancel flights if they upgraded. So is the B777 DEC back in the line? Who knows. New hires have been told here 4 years. But I don't think that will be the case. I think the new hires are looking at 6-8 years. However with the "EXTREMELY" high attrition rate, it's anyone's guess what's going to happen. The train has derailed and the cars are starting to pile up behind it. The real question is how will this problem be solved. If it's not done correctly, EK will fail. But if it is done correctly, it will once again be the place to run to.

Waiting for the press release in the coming weeks to see. ðŸ˜¬ðŸ˜¬

trimotor

19th Apr 2015, 15:49

I think the delay to 777 upgrades is more to do with moving less 777 skippers to the whale (due to cost) - 27 instead of 60 I heard. Not a lack of FO's (though that might easily be a factor), but a lack of immediate need for new 777 skippers.

Emma Royds

20th Apr 2015, 19:05

So is the B777 DEC back in the line? Who knows.

Not a question of if 777 DECs are coming to EK but rather when. 140 new recruits is the number that I was told is being circulated around the Bouncy Castle. As the situation is somewhat 'fluid', then that number could and probably will change but the moral of the story is that current and future F/Os will face a much longer wait than anticipated. Whether they will fill those places is another matter altogether!

trimotor

22nd Apr 2015, 04:20

There is NO plan (as of yesterday) to recruit 135 (or any rumoured number near this) 777 DEC's IN EK. This rumour has been doing the rounds (supposedly having come from a training captain - as if he'd know) and is viewed with amusement at the lack of logic by EK training management!

Last time EK recruited 777 DEC's (3-4 years ago) they struggled to find 55...

Current 330 DEC recruitment has yielded a big fat ZERO acceptable candidates, so the rumour goes.

Emma Royds

22nd Apr 2015, 04:35

There is a big difference as to what the company hope to achieve in recruitment for this financial year and what will actually happen. As far as management are concerned, DECs make perfect sense as you only have one command course to worry about rather than a command course, plus an initial type rating for the new recruit to replace the promoted F/O.

I would not be at all surprised if the company do quietly hope to attract a number of DECs. The fact that they will be unable to will raise its own challenges in the year ahead.

johntrav69

22nd Apr 2015, 05:00

Well thats gone horribly wrong all FO upgrades cancelled and 160 DEC's to come is the latest I heard. I don't post here very often but I foresee trouble ahead. No FO with an interview date deserves that. I am at a loss to see what else can happen here except no FO applications unless the T&C's become to good to ignore. Morale on the line extremely low.

Emma Royds

22nd Apr 2015, 05:36

It's a reactionary decision made in a state of panic. They have realised that the Sierra stands will become a static fleet display, unless they get more pilots. Such a number of DECs is a clear indicator of massive mismanagement.

falconeasydriver

22nd Apr 2015, 06:22

Good grief,

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQZqJ_-WAO8

Dking737

22nd Apr 2015, 16:55

I have an offer from emirates as well Qatar........which one do I take?? Keeping in mind that I want to be a captain someday, I can't wait forever for an upgrade to left seat. By the looks of it in Emirates the upgrade scene is very bad, so if I guy me who joins this year can basically only dream of ever becoming a captain........so what are your comments?? I choose Qatar over emirates?? I am guessing in Qatar the upgrade times are faster.

Avenger

22nd Apr 2015, 17:13

When you attended the interview and asked the question what did they say? this is a normal question to ask a panel, you can't make a career decision based on pprune feedback, however, remember with these airlines your seniority will be based on your time served with the company taking into account your applicable experience on their aircraft types, there is no queue jumping. In short plan on 4 plus years based on ALL the feedback here Qatar or Emirates are both sand pits so I guess its the lesser of two evils you base your decision on..

Dking737

22nd Apr 2015, 17:42

Absolutely !!! Both the interviews I did ask timeframe to command. Nd the response I got was 4 years from both the companies. Obviously I undestand that there is a seniority which is followed before which you get a shot at command. But from what I read here the timeframe in Emirates is close to 7-8 years fr a new joiner. The reason why I am leaving the present company is because I do not have command opportunities in my present company. I have 4000 hrs on a medium jet. I am trying to get a clearer picture of the whole situation.

Flyboy_SG

23rd Apr 2015, 08:15

Well Dking, I am going through my command upgrade here at home but still looking at QR & EY for various reasons. I second your decision. QR seems to be a better bet for faster left seat.

cheers

Dking737

23rd Apr 2015, 08:28

Any QR pilots out there doing their command training in QR, request you guys for some information.

Yorkshire_Pudding

23rd Apr 2015, 08:58

My advice would be to find an airline with the happiest working environment and not to go chasing an early command.

KRUGERFLAP

23rd Apr 2015, 09:42

My Advice. >Do another interview,if you didn´t with "The National Airline of the UAE "

Wish you a good choice!

Flyboy_SG

18th Apr 2016, 21:49

They are screwed up too Kruger !

Flyboy_SG

18th Apr 2016, 21:51

"My advice would be to find an airline with the happiest working environment and not to go chasing an early command."

I just did that Yorkshire. Hoping for the best.

bananaman2

19th Apr 2016, 01:33

I had an assessment with the unmentionable airline a few months ago... they say they introduced a 'Senior Officer Pay Scale'... as time to command was taking longer than hoped (FO Pay Scale is upto 5years) - previously it was largely obselete as they would expect you to get Command within the 5years... take from that what you will.

nitrowired

19th Apr 2016, 03:14

A320CaptDav

19th Apr 2016, 03:45

As someone said a good working environment is most important.

As for the airline we don't speak of, little is known and must of its policies are hush hush which makes you wonder would you really want to work in such an environment

EK seems to be careless they are a well oiled machine and will keep going at it to fulfill their needs with little regard towards any work -life balance.

QR seems like the only workable environment

This is my two pence..just a perspective

All the best

fatbus

19th Apr 2016, 03:45

The 2 pilots in Dec will end up very lucky as they will be on the 380 in a year. Recruiting is desperate now and will take just about anyone. Non airbus going onto the 380 @ may/jun

pacbro

19th Apr 2016, 08:01

My neighbour is starting his training early next month. That'll be exactly 5 years to the date since he joined EK. When he joined, he asked the questions you're asking and was told 3 years. So be careful of the decisions you want to make based on what you're told today as it could easily change tomorrow. As long as you accept that things in this industry is largely based on supply and demand, then you won't be too disappointed further down the road when you're told to wait a few more years for your upgrade.
Hope that helps and good luck with whatever decision you make.

Che Xindamail

19th Apr 2016, 08:01

QR is upgrading around 10 F/Os per month. Expect four years if you join with experience. Doha is not as fun as Abu Dhabi or Dubai but QR is probably the much better choice in terms of overall working environment. Everyone I speak to on the line has a long term plan to stay, unlike five years ago when many pilots left. I also hear that several of those that left for Abu Dhabi are now returning to QR.

Qwerti

19th Apr 2016, 08:50

Fatbus
Non airbus going onto the 380 @ may/jun
Do you mean that they started recruiting FO's (I suppose) on the 380 without airbus time?

TypeIV

19th Apr 2016, 10:07

I think QR looks promising, with all those airframes coming in, things might start to move rather quickly. If command is your priority and you are eligible to work in Europe, just join an LCC and upgrade quickly.

fatbus

19th Apr 2016, 10:11

yes i believe so but with jet time. No longer the place to be. Upgrades with depend on pilot retirements compared to expansion.

AviatoR21

19th Apr 2016, 11:31

Does quality of life and being a happy person actually take less of a priority than chasing that quick command? Just amazes me how some pilots will do anything to get that 4th bar, and then once they are there complain more. Personally I'd rather be a WB FO in my home country living the dream than be treated as a slave in uniform. Each to their own....

Flyboy_SG

1st May 2016, 09:43

@Smash

That post for from Apr2015. Yes I left my command and I'm in the desert for better QOL & money. Definitely it's not a wise decision as far as career is concerned but personally it is.
Atleast I get plenty of time for myself now and my health is not taking a toll like before.
No point in having the 4th stripe with no time off to spend with family or by your self.

@QR be sure to work with a gun on your forehead all the time. Mistakes might cost your job. Ppl usually report 1 HR before reporting time and don't talk much in the cockpit. And it's Sterile below
FL200. And strict compliance with SOP. Apart from that it's a great company with plenty of time off. Expect to carry your own meal, as cabin crew may not get time to serve you at times, remember pax first. And overall don't expect a lot of respect from any dept there. This is what I got to know from some of my folks who joined there DECs & FOs 320/787/777. Most of them are happy there.

@Aviator, it's great that you have a widebody job in Aus.