Yemen.....2 [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Lonewolf_50

9th Apr 2015, 13:29

He said the US would support any state in the Middle East that felt threatened by Iran, and would not "stand by" if Iran destabilised the region. I think the Secretary of State left out a word there.

It should have read: would not "stand by" if Iran further destabilised the region

A fair criticism of American policy that led to going into Iraq in 2003 is that it has resulted in a destabilization of the region, politically. A further policy decision to support "the Arab spring" can as well be criticized as having further added to the political instability.
Granted, if change is/was to happen, what goes on during the process of change can be a lessening of stability until change has taken effect, or been rejected and the old way returned to.

But as we are not There yet, in any kind of end state, it is unfair for our Secretary to lay too much burden on Iran for its contribution to regional instability. As I've pointed out before: people against going into Iraq, in 2002, like General Zinni who had just stepped down as CENTCOM commander, asserted based on regional experiences that taking down Iraq would be a boon to Iran and its regional plans.

This has come to pass.
President Bush wanted to change the Middle East, starting in Iraq. This he did, for better or worse.
President Obama wanted to change the Middle East, in his support for "the Arab Spring" etc.
This he did, for better or for worse.
The government in Iran wishes to influence change in the Middle east ... for better or for worse. This they are trying to do, or doing.

Good for the goose, and all that. :p

Lonewolf_50

17th Apr 2015, 12:55

It's a free for all.

Al Qaeda has apparently counted coup in Yemen (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/al-qaeda-arabian-peninsula-seizes-yemen-airport-military-base-n343361).
That won't please the Iranians, nor the Saudis.

Many v many.

Lonewolf_50

20th Apr 2015, 17:24

More things going "boom" in Yemen, this time it appears to be a Scud facility (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/20/us-yemen-security-idUSKBN0NB0R820150420). (Reuters) - An air strike on a Scud missile base in the Yemeni capital Sanaa caused a big explosion that blew out windows in homes, killing seven civilians and wounding dozens, medical sources told Reuters.

Yemen's state news agency Saba, run by the Houthi movement which controls the capital, said the bombing resulted in "dozens of martyrs and hundreds of wounded," citing a government official. Rhetorical device noted.

Robert Cooper

20th Apr 2015, 21:18

Eventually the Shi'ites (Iran) will have Saudi Arabia surrounded, and with nukes, then watch out!

Bib C

Lonewolf_50

20th Apr 2015, 21:25

Eventually the Shi'ites (Iran) will have Saudi Arabia surrounded, and with nukes, then watch out!

Bib CThe nations and nation states of Europe spent from about 1789 to 1945 exercising their hobby of intramural homicide with modest input from the rest of the world.

How is it fair that the Islamic world is not free to engage in same, now that industrial methods of warfare are available to them?

With over a billion Muslims world wide, the ten or twenty million who die before they all get sick of the slaughter will hardly be missed. :p (And if that's all who are lost, they can figure to have gotten off cheaply as compared to the Europeans! )

Robert Cooper

21st Apr 2015, 03:45

Iran has a Shia network that reaches from Afghanistan to Lebanon once again... more connections building along the Persian Gulf... Yemeni Shias to the south... and Shia connections along the oil rich Caspian Sea.
Suddenly Iran has its mortal enemy Surrounded, and we could see the current unrest spread to the nearly two million Shia that live and work on Saudi Arabia's oil fields very soon. Even though that's exactly what the Saudis — and the Pentagon — hope will never happen.
Not only is Saudi Arabia home to Mecca, Islam's holiest place... but it's also home to the corrupt and U.S.-supported Royal House of Saud, considered an insult to all Islam by the Shia.
For centuries, the Shia have been the underclass. Sunni schools teach that Shiites aren't real Muslims. Shias don't get a seat in government. They can't become judges or even testify in high courts. In Sunni-run Saudi Arabia, Shias and Sunni can't even marry.
There are as many as two million of that Shia underclass in Saudi Arabia, with a 1,354-year-old axe to grind. It's a near-perfect formula for a FULL-ON war. And the fuse is already lit.
For eight years back in the 1980s, Saudi Arabia helped Iraq wage a bloody war against Iran. Along with other Sunni governments, the Saudis even gave Saddam over $47 billion to launch missiles and nerve gas attacks over the Iranian border.
Iran hasn't forgotten or forgiven. Iran has waited to make the Saudis pay — and now they have their chance.
Iran is ready to assert its place in the world. Think Japan or Germany in the 1930s. The threat is there, it's large, and it's not going away anytime soon.
But now, for the first time in history, they see this as their chance to turn the tide.

Bob C

ORAC

21st Apr 2015, 06:29

US Carrier Sent to Yemen to Block Iranian Arms (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/2015/04/20/us-carrier-moving-off-coast-of-yemen-to-block-iranian-arms-shipments/26084249/)

WASHINGTON — The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt is moving toward the waters off the coast of Yemen to prepare to intercept any potential Iranian shipments of weapons to the rebels fighting the U.S.-backed government of Yemen, a Pentagon official said Monday. Col. Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman, said the carrier and ships supporting her had been in the Persian Gulf. They moved to the waters near Yemen because of increased instability there, he said.

The Roosevelt is also tracking a convoy of Iranian ships headed to the Gulf of Aden, said a Defense official speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the Iranian vessels. The Iranians have been supporting Houthi rebels in Yemen. The Pentagon has been tracking the progress of the Iranian ships since last week, the official said.

The Navy is prepared to intercept the ships, according to a second Defense Department official who was not authorized to speak publicly. Moving the Roosevelt is viewed by the Pentagon as significant but not necessarily a prelude to conflict...........

The guided-missile cruiser USS Normandy is accompanying the Roosevelt, the Navy said.

Lonewolf_50

21st Apr 2015, 12:31

The Roosevelt is also tracking a convoy of Iranian ships headed to the Gulf of Aden, said a Defense official speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the Iranian vessels If he wasn't authorized to speak, why did this official open his mouth? :mad:

As to the embargo/quarantine/intercept (used to be called MIO during the 90's in the Red Sea) it has the look of Sharp Fence/Maritime Guard/Sharp Guard of 20 years ago.

But politically, this smells of the Spanish Civil War where some nations fed arms to the sides in a civil war, and other nations (League of) set up an arms embargo. In short, this is growing into a tidy little mess. It's good political fun to see that Iran and the US have more or less the same short term goal in getting ISIS put down, but not the same goal (short or long term) in Yemen.

Note: you don't need a carrier to conduct Maritime Intercept Operations (MIO) but it doesn't hurt to have one. :cool:

Lonewolf_50

21st Apr 2015, 16:54

The Iranian convey is parked south-southeast of the Yemeni border with Oman, the U.S. officials said. Saudi and Egyptian warships are positioned to the southwest of the convoy, forming a blockade of the Gulf of Aden and the port city of Aden. The opening moves:
Convoy of Iranian Ships Parked in Arabian Sea, U.S. Officials Say - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/convoy-iranian-ships-parked-arabian-sea-u-s-officials-say-n345451)

The arena (http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/arabian_sea_physical.jpg)

I found it interesting that Egyptian and Saudi naval vessels are establishing the ... well, what's it going to be called?
Quarantine?
Line in the Ocean?
The media are calling it a "blockade."
The UNSC calls it an Arms Embargo.
EDIT: UNSC resolution 2216.
http://www.un.org/press/en/2015/sc11859.doc.htm
(Full text begins about a third of the way down the page).

To all of you on the high seas involved in this, from whatever nation: thinking of you and hoping the political leadership don't get carried away with their bluff and counter bluff.

Could get grim. :(

melmothtw

21st Apr 2015, 17:29

Lonewolf_50

21st Apr 2015, 17:47

You don't have to go all the way back to the Spanish Civil War to find one side being supplied arms and the other subject to an arms embargo, just look at Bosnia - Serbs being armed by Russia and Greece mainly, Croats by the Germans, and the Muslims/ Bosniaks under a UN embargo. Fair point. One of the reasons I chose the Spanish Civil War model was to do with it being a prelude to the global war that followed it. The action in FY seems to have precluded a follow on large fight. (Alternate view: just delayed it, awaiting Vlad and his latest efforts to restore his version of the good old days).

This thing in Yemen may be like the Spanish example in setting up something larger as a follow on if this proxy fight within Yemen gets certain sides going after each other in places further afield.
Hopefully, it won't.

rh200

21st Apr 2015, 23:46

The nations and nation states of Europe spent from about 1789 to 1945 exercising their hobby of intramural homicide with modest input from the rest of the world.

Comparing past events and convolving them onto present situations is tricky and potentially dangerous.

Every culture needs to go though the social evolutionary process, but there is no golden rule to say it will work out as situation x. And the process where past cultural changes where influenced by others has changed as well.

Effectively yo have a culture that from some standpoints is centuries behind, but have access to modern weapons. The potential to have an outcome that may not be favorable to the west is several decades is to high.

ORAC

22nd Apr 2015, 05:45

What to call it? "Cordon Sanitaire" seems appropriate..... :hmm:

Lonewolf_50

22nd Apr 2015, 13:04

What to call it? "Cordon Sanitaire" seems appropriate ... :hmm: I note this language in the news, for what it's worth: an Iranian convoy is under constant surveillance by U.S. Navy warplanes and is believed to be loaded with weapons for rebels based in Yemen.

So nobody knows, however, but there may be probable cause since the two freighters are being accompanied by five naval frigates.

The news also reports that aircraft are keeping the flotilla under observation.

It will come to the test when the Egyptian and Saudi ships have to make a stand or let them pass.

Hangarshuffle

22nd Apr 2015, 18:45

Yemen Times (http://www.yementimes.com/)

I quite like the Yemen Times, brave impartial journalists if nothing else.

Lonewolf_50

22nd Apr 2015, 18:58

*Yemen Times (http://www.yementimes.com/)
I quite like the Yemen Times, brave impartial journalists if nothing else.
Al-Arabiya and Al-Jazeera added to list of banned websites | Yemen Times (http://www.yementimes.com/en/1875/news/5043/Al-Arabiya-and-Al-Jazeera-added-to-list-of-banned-websites.htm)
Interesting to see how the information war is shaping up in this multi-faceted mess.

From my estimates, in a day or two the "day of decision" will come at sea when the two Iranian freighters are close enough to the Saudi and Egyptian picket for something to give.
Aside: I wonder if the Fifth Fleet can account for all of the Iranian submarines in the OOB. Were I the Iranian naval commander, I'd ask for a sub to go along with the flotilla escorting the freighters ... it's good to have a hole card.

Not sure how much that maritime stuff influences what's going on shoreside, near term ...

Lonewolf_50

23rd Apr 2015, 14:38

As this is a rumors and news site:

Within the last quarter of an hour, word is filtering out (via Twistter) that the convoy is turning about and heading back to Iran.

Mike Walker @New_Narrative (Walker@ New_Narrative) : "NBC reporting the Iranian convoy off Yemen has turned back toward Iran"
Traci Lee @traciglee (Lee@ traciglee)
Iranian convoy believed to be carrying weapons destined for Houthi rebels in Yemen have turned back toward Iran. -@JimMiklaszewski Probably best to check back in a few hours, but perhaps things have been defused for the time being.

ORAC

29th Apr 2015, 08:54

#BREAKING: Iranian civilian plane defies no-fly zone, attempts to land in Sanaa
— Al Arabiya English (@AlArabiya_Eng) April 28, 2015

#BREAKING: Coalition: Sanaa airport runway bombed to prevent Iranian plane which defied the no fly zone from landing
— Al Arabiya English (@AlArabiya_Eng) April 28, 2015

Yemen conflict: Saudi-led jets destroy Sanaa airport runway; fighting kills at least 30 people (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-29/saudi-led-jets-destroy-yemen-sanaa-airport-runway/6429474)

Jets from a Saudi-led alliance have destroyed the runway of Yemen's Sanaa airport to prevent an Iranian plane from landing there, Saudi Arabia said, as fighting across the country killed at least 30 people........ Air force planes from the Saudi-led coalition bombed the runway of the country's main airport to stop an Iranian flight landing, officials from both sides said, in a move that will further complicate humanitarian efforts to fly urgently needed aid into Yemen.

Saudi-led coalition spokesman Brigadier General Ahmed Asseri said the airport was bombed after an Iranian aircraft refused to coordinate with the coalition and the pilot ignored orders to turn back. He said the bombing of the runway made it unusable for planned aid flights.

Airport officials said the strikes set a civilian aircraft operated by Yemeni Felix Airways ablaze, adding that a cargo plane was also hit. An official at the Yemeni civil aviation authority said the runway was targeted by 20 sorties that destroyed both the take-off and landing runways.

Iranian state news agency IRNA confirmed the incident, and said the pilots had ignored "illegal" warnings from Saudi jets to turn back before the runway was bombed. IRNA said the plane was carrying humanitarian aid to Sanaa. The Houthis' al-Masirah television station said the plane was scheduled to carry wounded victims of the Saudi-led strikes for treatment in Iran.

A civil aviation official said the airport at the Red Sea city of Hodeidah had also been bombed, but appeared to be still operational. Officials said aid flights would be diverted to Hodeidah until Sanaa airport is repaired.......

Lonewolf_50

29th Apr 2015, 12:55

Iranian state news agency IRNA confirmed the incident, and said the pilots had ignored "illegal" warnings from Saudi jets to turn back before the runway was bombed. IRNA said the plane was carrying humanitarian aid to Sanaa. The Houthis' al-Masirah television station said the plane was scheduled to carry wounded victims of the Saudi-led strikes for treatment in Iran. Uh, nowhere closer to treat them? :confused:

This is getting messier by the day.

Tourist

29th Apr 2015, 17:58

Well, you have to admire their ability to think out of the box.....

It probably would not occur to us to destroy the runaway to enforce a no fly zone.

ORAC

16th May 2015, 10:44

Iranians Fire Warning Shots at Ship In Gulf (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/mideast-africa/2015/05/14/iranians-fire-warning-shots-commercial-ship-gulf/27333373/)

.......Another possible maritime showdown emerged this week.

The United States has demanded that an Iranian aid ship bound for Yemen change course and head towards Djibouti, where the United Nations is overseeing humanitarian efforts for the Yemen conflict. But a senior Iranian commander rejected the request and warned the Americans that "a fire might start" if there were attempts to block Tehran's aid efforts.

Although Iran has said it would provide a naval escort for the aid ship, so far the vessel has no warships guarding it. The Iranian cargo ship is currently heading southwest off the coast of Oman, Warren said.......

ORAC

17th May 2015, 16:24

Iranian ship carries aid and activists into waters off Yemen (http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/05/17/yemen-security-iran-ship-idINL5N0Y804X20150517)

May 17: An Iranian cargo ship carrying aid and activists crossed into the Gulf of Aden on Sunday and will reach Yemen's Hodaida port on May 21, Iranian media reported, in a challenge to Saudi-led naval forces controlling Yemeni waters. A coalition of Arab countries led by Saudi Arabia has imposed searches on all ships trying to enter Yemen in a bid to prevent weapons being smuggled to the Iran-allied Houthi rebel group which controls much of the country, including Hodaida.

Iranian officials last week said they would not allow the Saudi-led forces to inspect the Iran Shahed, which is under military escort, and warned of war if the cargo ship was attacked.

"After entering the Gulf of Aden today... we expect to be in the confines of Hodaida port early on May 21," the Iran Shahed's captain, Massoud Ghazi Mirsaid, was quoted as saying by state news agency IRNA.

Iran says the ship is carrying food aid, medical volunteers and seven Western activists, one of whom was identified by the Tasnim news agency as Caleb Maupin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caleb_Maupin), a native of Ohio who has campaigned against war and the U.S. financial system. "If they prevent (the ship from docking), which is likely, this is a major human rights violation," Tasnim quoted Maupin as saying in an interview on board the ship.

The presence of foreign activists has previously complicated plans to intercept ships carrying them. Israel faced criticism in 2010 when its forces raided a Gaza-bound flotilla, resulting in the deaths of nine Turkish activists on board. A 10th Turk died in May 2014 from wounds sustained in the incident. Maupin also criticised a plea from his native United States that Iran redirect the ship to Djibouti, where the United Nations is coordinating relief efforts.

Reuters ship tracking data showed the Iran Shahed located off the coast of eastern Yemen at 1110 GMT, heading west towards the Bab el-Mandeb strait, one of the world's busiest oil shipping routes.......

Lonewolf_50

18th May 2015, 13:45

Iranian officials last week said they would not allow the Saudi-led forces to inspect the Iran Shahed, which is under military escort, and warned of war if the cargo ship was attacked.

Iran says the ship is carrying food aid, medical volunteers and seven Western activists, one of whom was identified by the Tasnim news agency as Caleb Maupin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caleb_Maupin), a native of Ohio who has campaigned against war and the U.S. financial system. "If they prevent (the ship from docking), which is likely, this is a major human rights violation," Tasnim quoted Maupin as saying in an interview on board the ship.
Maupin also criticised a plea from his native United States that Iran redirect the ship to Djibouti, where the United Nations is coordinating relief efforts.
And so it begins again, now with that joyful cargo of activists added.
Caleb Maupin - Radical Journalist & Political Analyst (http://calebmaupin.info/)
If you are interested in this graduate of a liberal arts school in Ohio
Baldwin-Wallace College (http://www.bw.edu/) here is some info.

Saw some other news from Yemen, apparently SecState Kerry has come out in support of the resumption of air strikes among the Saudi led coalition.

"The Houthis were engaged in moving some missile-launching capacity to the
border and under the rules of engagement, it was always understood that if there
were proactive moves by one side or another, then that would be in violation of
the ceasefire agreement," said Kerry, according to the Reuters news agency.
Hmm, reminiscent of the NATO whacking of Serb air defense units in Bosnia, 20 years ago or so.

ORAC

14th Mar 2016, 15:56

UAE Mirage Fighter Jet Crashes Over Yemen (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/mideast-africa/2016/03/14/uae-mirage-fighter-jet-missing-yemen/81753912/)

DUBAI — A United Arab Emirates fighter jet has crashed in the southern port city of Aden during a combat operation in the early morning hours of Monday, killing two pilots.

A statement from the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen confirmed that the fighter jet was one of the French-made Dassault Mirage 2000-9s participating in the operations. The UAE operates alongside the Mirage 2000-9s F-16 block 60s in their Operation Restoring Hope missions over Yemen as well as other logistical and transport aircraft.

"The Supreme Command of the Armed Forces announced today that a fighter jet taking part in the Arab coalition led by Saudi Arabia ... in Yemen was missing," a statement on the official WAM news agency said Monday afternoon, without giving further details. According to a statement released by the coalition, the Mirage crashed “due to a technical fault.”

According to the UAE armed forces, clashes last night and earlier this morning took place in Aden between security forces and al-Qaida militants in the southern capital.

A government official told AFP that a coalition jet had carried out an air raid against the home of a local ISIS commander at dawn, killing the target’s 18-year-old son, near the plane crash site. Coalition Apache helicopters were also taking part in the fighting on Monday, security officials said. “We saw Apache helicopters fire rockets and open machine gun fire at al-Qaida militants” in the al-Mansoura district of Aden, one witness told the news agency.

This is the first known case of a UAE jet from the coalition crashing since the campaign began in March last year. In December, a Bahraini F-16 crashed in Saudi Arabia due to a "technical error." The pilot was saved and the plane's wreckage was found.

It was the second coalition jet to crash after a Moroccan warplane went down during a mission over Yemen in May. Its pilot was later found dead and his body was returned home. The coalition said at the time that the crash had been caused by a technical fault or human error, and it denied rebel claims that they downed the plane.

ORAC

2nd Oct 2016, 18:46

Rebels sink UAE warship (ex-USN) HSV-2 Swift off Yemen coast.

https://www.rt.com/news/361339-uae-warship-attack-yemen/

WTNeEYlO3Iw

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSV-2_Swift

ORAC

1st Feb 2017, 10:50

Pentagon believes attack on Saudi frigate meant for US warship (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/31/exclusive-pentagon-believes-attack-on-saudi-frigate-meant-for-us-warship.html)

The Iranian-backed suicide attack targeting a Saudi frigate off the coast of Yemen on Monday may have been meant for an American warship, two defense officials told Fox News.

The incident in question occurred in the southern Red Sea and was carried out by Iranian-backed Houthi rebels. Two Saudi sailors were killed and three were wounded. At first the ship was thought to have been struck by a missile.But based on new analysis of a video showing the attack, American intelligence officials now believe this was, in fact, a suicide bomber whose small boat rammed the side of the Saudi vessel.

In the audio heard on the video, a voice narrating the attack shouts in Arabic, "Allahu akbar [God is great], death to America, death to Israel, a curse on the Jews and victory for Islam."

U.S. defense analysts believe those behind the attack either thought the bomber was striking an American warship or that this was a “dress rehearsal” similar to the attack on the USS Cole, according to one official......

SASless

1st Feb 2017, 13:50

One thing holds true....there's Submarines and Targets.

Proved to be a game changer in more than a few dust ups of varying sizes.

jolihokistix

3rd Dec 2017, 10:53

UAE nuclear power plant targeted by Houthis?
Yemen's Houthis report missile launched towards UAE | News | Al Jazeera (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/yemen-houthis-report-missile-launched-uae-171203102556419.html)

And from the UAE and Saudi Arabian viewpoint: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2017/12/03/UAE-denies-Houthi-allegations-of-firing-a-missile-against-nuclear-plant.html

Even the fact that people are actually threatening this is appalling. A new and very dangerous step for humanity.

Heathrow Harry

3rd Dec 2017, 11:02

Yemen is like Afghanistan - easy to get into a war there and bloody awful to get out in one piece

I'm not really sure who wants what - the Houthis want power but are (apparently) totally incompetent, the Saudis want a client state preferably run by Sunnis, and Iran just enjoys meddling..............

A_Van

5th Dec 2017, 16:43

Looks like an optimism about intercept of a 55 y.o. missile by a Saudi-operated Patriot was a bit premature.

Or maybe these are just fake news from NYT to prick and laugh at Trump?

From: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/04/world/middleeast/saudi-missile-defense.html

“Our system knocked the missile out of the air,” President Trump said the next day from Air Force One en route to Japan, one of the 14 countries that use the system. “That’s how good we are. Nobody makes what we make, and now we’re selling it all over the world.”
But an analysis of photos and videos of the strike posted to social media suggests that story may be wrong.

Instead, evidence analyzed by a research team of missile experts appears to show the missile’s warhead flew unimpeded over Saudi defenses and nearly hit its target, Riyadh’s airport. The warhead detonated so close to the domestic terminal that customers jumped out of their seats.

Heathrow Harry

5th Dec 2017, 16:48

well Ali Abdullah Saleh is now gone so that's one of the meddlers out of the game

I really despair about it TBH - no-one is in the right here - it's just people meddling for the sake of it.

At least the West and Russia have stayed out so far

Lonewolf_50

5th Dec 2017, 19:54

You may have put your finger on the problem A_Van\a Saudi-operated Patriot
and the other question is "how well did the cueing and early warning work?"

Heathrow Harry

6th Dec 2017, 06:32

probably all looking the other way - West to Israel, North to Iran & Qatar, East to PRK

Lonewolf_50

6th Dec 2017, 13:57

Harry, when's the last time you worked with a ballistic missile defense systems? (my last time was in 2004).

A_Van

6th Dec 2017, 15:33

You may have put your finger on the problem A_Van\
and the other question is "how well did the cueing and early warning work?"

Yes, I was meaning that "hi-tech stuff in hands of ....(well, put your own word there) is nothing but a piece of metal". Well applicable to Russian arms exported to that region, too.

Heathrow Harry

6th Dec 2017, 15:56

"Harry, when's the last time you worked with a ballistic missile defense systems? (my last time was in 2004)"

I wasn't being serious..........................................

ORAC

8th Jan 2018, 06:40

Saudi-led coalition warplane crashes in Yemen: Saudi statement (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security-warplane/saudi-led-coalition-warplane-crashes-in-yemen-saudi-statement-idUSKBN1EW0NV)

DUBAI (Reuters) - A warplane from Saudi Arabia’s air forces fighting the Houthi movement in Yemen crashed on Sunday due to a technical fault while conducting military operations, a statement carried by the Saudi state news agency SPA said.

The Houthi armed movement’s TV channel al-Massirah earlier said Houthi forces had shot down the fighter in Saada province, adding it was a Britain-made Tornado.

The Saudi statement said the plane had crashed in the war zone. It said the Saudi-led coalition conducted a special operation to evacuate the two pilots who survived the crash.

BEagle

8th Jan 2018, 07:27

It said the Saudi-led coalition conducted a special operation to evacuate the two pilots who survived the crash.

Even in GW1, RSAF Tornado back-seaters referred to themselves as 'Tornado co-pilots' rather than navigators or WSOs...:hmm:

Were they really pilots, or trying to avoid some loss of face by accepting that they were not?

50+Ray

8th Jan 2018, 09:51

Certainly some of the earliest WSOs trained in UK for RSAF Tornados were qualified pilots. I met one lad at Finningley in late 1986 who I had sent first solo nearly two years earlier. The RSAF at the time of signing Al Yamamah 2 had no back seaters at all, at which point of course BAE immediately said 'we will train some for you - give us even more money'.
I believe the initial selection for the back seat had a lot to do with (lack of) family clout and royal influence.

Heathrow Harry

8th Jan 2018, 10:03

it's the media reporting - it really doesn't matter TBH

TEEEJ

9th Jan 2018, 19:07

Claimed to be a Saudi F-15 hit over Yemen on 7th January 2018

Ignore the holding image for the video as that was an Su-24 shot down over Syria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaD4qjjNLbE

Cazalet33

9th Jan 2018, 19:16

Tornado back-seaters referred to themselves as 'Tornado co-pilots' Some helicopter nose-gunners like to call themselves 'co-pilots' too.:cool:

dead_pan

9th Jan 2018, 21:21

Looks like an F15 in the video. First combat loss?

parabellum

9th Jan 2018, 21:48

Some helicopter nose-gunners like to call themselves 'co-pilots' too.:cool:
Think you will find that in the British Army the guy sat in front is also a pilot, employed as the weapons systems officer, responsible for the effective delivery of the payload and may even be 'in-command' of the aircraft. Someone here will know for sure.

ORAC

26th Feb 2018, 07:40

HOUTHIS DESTROYED UAE PATRIOT SYSTEM IN CENTRAL YEMEN WITH SWARM OF DRONES – REPORTS (https://southfront.org/houthis-destroyed-uae-patriot-system-in-central-yemen-with-swarm-of-drones-reports/)

On February 23, an unnamed Yemeni officer told the Yemeni al-Masirah TV that the Yemeni Air Force and the Missile Forces [both allied with the Houthis] had conducted a joint operation and destroyed a MIM-104 Patriot PAC-3 air defense system and a headquarter of the UAE Army in the central Yemeni province of Ma’rib.

According to al-Masirah, Yemeni forces attacked the UAE Army Patriot PAC-3 system with “a swarm of unmanned aerial vehicles [UAVs],” while the UAE Army headquarter was targeted with several ballistic missiles launched by the Yemeni Missile Forces.

The Saudi-led coalition immediately announced that its air defenses in Yemen had intercepted two ballistic missiles, which had been launched by the Houthis over the center of Ma’rib province. However, the collation didn’t report shooting down any UAVs of the Houthis.

Most likely, the Yemenis used a type of suicide UAVs named “Qasef-1” to conduct such attacks. The Qasef-1 is a copy of the Iranian-made “Ababil-2” UAV armed with 30kg warhead, according to a report of the Conflict Armament Research (CAR) group.

The Houthis conducted a similar attack (https://southfront.org/houthis-reportedly-destroyed-saudi-arabias-patriot-air-defense-system-in-western-yemen/) with UAVs and ballistic missiles against a Patriot PAC-3 system of the Saudi Army in the southwestern province of Taiz on February 8. However, the real results of these attacks are yet to be known.

https://southfront.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DR1.jpg?x51150

Lonewolf_50

26th Feb 2018, 19:07

I wonder if anything like the Phalanx (https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/north_america/united_states/artillery_vehicle/centurion_c-ram/pictures/Centurion_land-based_Phalanx_on_trailer_C-RAM_counter_rocket_artillery_and_mortar_weapon_system_United _States_US_army_005.jpg) was part of the UAE Patriot operating site or not.

ORAC

25th Mar 2019, 07:36

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-commandos-shot-on-secret-missions-in-yemen-97v079bln

British commandos shot on secret missions in Yemen

Five special forces commandos have been wounded in gun battles while on secret missions in Yemen.

Members of the Special Boat Service (SBS) were shot while fighting in the Saadah area in the north of the country, according to a report. They clashed with Houthi rebels, who are backed by Iran, and were hit in the arms and legs. The five men, thought to be among 30 Britons operating in Yemen, are back in the UK.

The report is likely to incense critics such as Andrew Mitchell, the former international development secretary, who has accused the UK of complicity in Saudi Arabia’s role in the war..........

The Mail on Sunday quoted an SBS source saying: “The guys are fighting in inhospitable desert and mountainous terrain against highly committed and well-equipped Houthi rebels. The SBS’s role is mainly training and mentoring but on occasions they have found themselves in firefights and some British troops have been shot. A few weeks ago, an SBS guy was shot in the hand and another guy was shot in the leg.”..........

The SBS mentoring teams inside Yemen include medical workers, translators and forward air controllers, whose job is to request air support from the Saudis. The service, which is based in Poole, Dorset, is a 200-strong maritime special forces unit founded in 1940. Most of its recruits are former Royal Marines.

Yesterday it was reported that RAF engineers sent to Saudi Arabia to work on military aircraft sold to the country had evaded an explosion at King Khalid airbase in the southwest last week.

The Ministry of Defence said: “No UK military personnel based in Saudi Arabia have been affected by reported attacks. We take the safety of our personnel extremely seriously and suitable and effective precautions are in place to ensure it.”

ORAC

14th Sep 2019, 06:13

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49699429

Saudi Arabia oil facilities ablaze after drone strikes

Asturias56

14th Sep 2019, 08:53

It's turning into the Saudi's Vietnam..........................

ORAC

14th Sep 2019, 19:18

https://twitter.com/drjamesrogers/status/1172916170732838913?s=21

etudiant

14th Sep 2019, 22:58

Think this is only the beginning of the long discussed RMA (Revolution in Military Affairs).
Courtesy of cheap drones, cheap electronics guidance and GPS targeting, even a non state can inflict serious strategic damage on an adversary.
Of course, knowing the Saudis, it is not impossible that they are accentuating the damage reports in order to increase the pressure on Iran, which is sure to be blamed for facilitating this strike.

A_Van

15th Sep 2019, 09:45

RMA is too loud a word with regards to such attacks. Maybe in the "3rd world" only. Like Toyota-based "jihadmobiles" used by ISIS instead of IFVs.
For countries with modern air defence, even subsonic cruise missiles is not a big deal.

Asturias56

15th Sep 2019, 09:53

Problem is Van is that RSA have spent a fortune on Air Defence - they just don't have the right sort to stop this sort of thing.

The other is that infrastructure is spread over a very wide area - it's not like defending an airbase or a city - a $1000 drone can take out an electricity pylon in the sticks and close an installation down - and they can do it the next day 20 miles away etc etc etc

The "entry costs" (as an Economist would say) are so low and the technology is so simple it means just about anyone can get involved. See the idiots trying to close down Heathrow this weekend - 5 or 6 protesters who can afford to buy a couple of drones and operate them from a field........

Fareastdriver

15th Sep 2019, 10:05

It's strange that a cruise missile can be launched from Yemen on to a target 1,000 kilometres away with a missile that has a cruise speed of 300 km/hr. and an endurance of up to two hours.

Asturias56

15th Sep 2019, 11:28

Might have had local help.............. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-49705197

One element of the Houthi statement on the attacks did however thank "co-operation with the honourable people inside the kingdom".

The Wall Street Journal has said experts are investigating whether the attacks could have been carried out from the north - either by Iran or its Shia allies in Iraq - using cruise missiles rather than drones. If so, it seems unlikely they would have escaped detection.

The Washington Post said the US government believed that 15 buildings at Abqaiq had been damaged on the west-northwest sides, not the southern sides facing Yemen.

A 2018 UN report concluded that the Houthis' Qatef-1 suicide drone was "virtually identical" to Iran's Ababil-T. The Ababil-T is considered a low-tech drone with a maximum range of about 150km (93 miles). The distance from the nearest point of the Saudi Arabia-Yemen border to the closest target - Khurais - is about 770km. On Sunday, Iraq denied its territory had been used to launch the attacks.

Asturias56

15th Sep 2019, 13:20

The current US Govt continues to see every thing through the "IRAN" prism - TBH the Saudis have got themselves stuck in the Yemen swamp (as the Egyptians did years ago) and can't find a way out - that's the trouble when you don't have elections to change the guys behind the policy

The Iranians are just doing what the US did in Afghanistan - a few missiles, some money and you can create all sorts of problems for the those in the swamp. No need to invade - just keep the pot simmering

racedo

15th Sep 2019, 14:05

ORAC

15th Sep 2019, 14:07

The problem will come when the Iranian oilfields are attacked by “Yemeni loyalists” in retaliation.

Asturias56

15th Sep 2019, 14:54

No - they'll just stir it up somewhere else - plenty of lunatics and people's with a grievance to tap into

You forget they Iranians have been under sanctions etc for nearly 50 years - they can take it.......... they don't LIKE it of course but for most of the population it's "normal"

XR219

17th Sep 2019, 12:21

The Wall Street Journal has said experts are investigating whether the attacks could have been carried out from the north - either by Iran or its Shia allies in Iraq - using cruise missiles rather than drones. If so, it seems unlikely they would have escaped detection.

Surely a "suicide drone" with a warhead as payload (e.g. Qasef-1, Quds-1 etc.) IS a cruise missile?

racedo

17th Sep 2019, 18:54

Surely a "suicide drone" with a warhead as payload (e.g. Qasef-1, Quds-1 etc.) IS a cruise missile?

Kind of scary that US admitting its much vaunted Patriot don't do as they should.

Strange that when Russian base in Syria is being attacked they are regularly able to shoot down the drones.

etudiant

17th Sep 2019, 19:41

Kind of scary that US admitting its much vaunted Patriot don't do as they should.

Strange that when Russian base in Syria is being attacked they are regularly able to shoot down the drones.

Horses for courses. Do not believe the Patriot system was ever designed to knock down overgrown model airplanes such as were effectively used by the Houthies.
Of course, given the damage inflicted by these small drones, Saudi might want to purchase a few regiments of Bofors guns or some Skysweepers, if they can still be found.

ORAC

17th Sep 2019, 19:56

Or Iron Dome - as are the Americans.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend....

Easy Street

17th Sep 2019, 21:51

Strange that when Russian base in Syria is being attacked they are regularly able to shoot down the drones.

Defending a single base is a very different proposition to defending critical infrastructure spread widely across vast areas. And indiscriminate GPS jamming (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/amp28250133/russia-gps-signals-israel/) helps a lot when the threats are cheap drones. I wonder if we’ll see it being employed more widely.

etudiant

17th Sep 2019, 23:31

Defending a single base is a very different proposition to defending critical infrastructure spread widely across vast areas. And indiscriminate GPS jamming (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/amp28250133/russia-gps-signals-israel/) helps a lot when the threats are cheap drones. I wonder if we’ll see it being employed more widely.

Not sure GPS jamming would be all that useful. Image matching sensors are no longer restricted to government customers and inertial systems are pretty decent as well.
I think Yemen is a Spanish Civil War style preview that we are seeing, one where the various players experiment on the hapless population.
The Shiite side has less money, but is at least as dedicated as their Sunni opponents. I'd bet on their resistance causing a fracture in the Sunni team, possibly even within the Saudi leadership. It cannot be happy news to the princes to see their incomes slashed because of MBS's war.

A_Van

19th Sep 2019, 15:33

No doubt that several reasonable explanations can be found why the Saudis did not shoot down those UAVs.

Nevertheless, the fact is that a country having 80+ Patriot complexes (PAC-2 and PAC-3) was unable to defend an important object of its infrastructure. I assume the "human factor" is the main "contributor". They were either "sleeping" or could not operate the equipment properly. Or/and poor tactical training: with that many defense stuff they have purchased over the years, they still have huge holes in the perimeter.

However, the question remains about the US Navy. They have some destroyers in the Persian Gulf and all around that area. Good radars, trained and qualified personnel. Why did not they detect those UAVs even if shooting them down was not their responsibility? Those drones and cruise missiles (at least the ones shown on TV) look quite primitive. No stealth at all, RCS' seem to be similar to a 3rd generation fighter.

Lonewolf_50

19th Sep 2019, 17:50

However, the question remains about the US Navy. They have some destroyers in the Persian Gulf and all around that area. Good radars, trained and qualified personnel. Why did not they detect those UAVs even if shooting them down was not their responsibility? Why would you assume that their, the USN's, mission is to shoot into Saudi Airspace, or to defend a "feet dry" area that is the critical infrastructure of a sovereign nation?

At the political level, it is very likely that the Saudi military do not want to be seen as having their hands held by the USN.
(And as I don't know where the USN assets were on that particular day, I have no idea what engagement geometry may or may not have been available for that particular defended area, nor which sensor packages would be positioned for such an event)

Regarding Patriots: as a TBMD asset it is a different air defense asset than any number of other Anti Air asset for small, slow movers. Your calling out of the Patriots would make sense of this was an attack by Theater Ballistic Missiles like Scud and the various mods and improvements to that missile family. But that does not seem to be what hit the Saudi oil facility.

The other points on "who was awake and on task" reminds me of the question regarding Malaysian Radar sites and MH 370. If the radar is there, and on, but the operators are not paying close attention, some bad things can happen.
Or/and poor tactical training
I'll drop a five dollar chip on that number at the gambling table.

Here's an idea: the Saudis' threat assessment led to a gap that was exploited.
Ain't the first time something like that ever happened. Won't be the last.

etudiant

19th Sep 2019, 19:29

The Houthies have acknowledged that they got help in mounting this strike and there are plausible reports the strike came from southern Iraq, which is a Shia enclave, one that Saddam was trying to crush earlier.
So they are a community that has the same experience with Sunni assaults as the Houthies and is proximate to Shia Iran, so easily supplied with weapons. Their sector is also much closer to the target site.
Simultaneously, it seems plausible that the Saudis would not focus on their northern borders, an omission which clearly has cost them dear.
That means Iran is at most on the hook for arms sales/deliveries to its coreligionists, which at worst puts them into the same boat as the US and NATO wrt Saudi and their coalition.
Act of war??

Lonewolf_50

19th Sep 2019, 20:20

Act of war?? That's a good question in terms of geopolitics: who will so characterize this event as an act of war, and for what purpose?
I think that Prince Mohammad Bin Salman making a clear public statement about taking this to the UN is a tentative step in preparing the ground for that option: but that option will become subject to the various jockeying about at the UN and the UNSC as whatever team to inspect is picked, who is among the players, and what they find, and then what they report. (Those two are not necessarily the same). In other words, he's both buying time and getting a feel for how well that assertion will sell on the great stage of world opinion and among the UNSC members. Garnering political support from more than one or two sources would be in Prince MBS's interest.

From your observation a few days ago
Of course, knowing the Saudis, it is not impossible that they are accentuating the damage reports in order to increase the pressure on Iran, which is sure to be blamed for facilitating this strike. Based on the latest noise in the news, it would appear that the impact is less than first reported.
But I'd say it's too early to tell.

racedo

29th Sep 2019, 17:55

Lonewolf_50

29th Sep 2019, 19:13

Interesting that it appears Houthi's have gone and acquired huge amount of barely used equipment plus it is claimed 3 "Brigades" of KSA armed forces. The equipment appeared to stretch over a bit of a distance plus some of the videos show couple of thousand men taken prisoner. Definition of size of a KSA Brigade may be open to question. First reports being subject to variation in veracity, it seems that the BBC are skeptical (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49866677).
I'd say give it 48 hours and check back. A bit more detail may be forthcoming by then.
Reports of getting a hold of some valuable equipment seems to stand up.

racedo

29th Sep 2019, 20:10

First reports being subject to variation in veracity, it seems that the BBC are skeptical (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49866677).
I'd say give it 48 hours and check back. A bit more detail may be forthcoming by then.
Reports of getting a hold of some valuable equipment seems to stand up.

BBC Foreign Service will parrot what Saudi's say until they cannot. Not sure whether there is still the fawning interview Frank Gardner did with MBS a couple of years ago.

This shows a lot of people and equipment and don't think Oshkosh gave any equipment to Yemen.
3 Saudi Military Brigades Destroyed in a Yemeni Offensive in Najran, Thousands Taken Prisoners. September 29, 2019 (http://aljazeerah.info/News/2019/September/29%20n/3%20Saudi%20Military%20Brigades%20Destroyed%20in%20a%20Yemen i%20Offensive%20in%20Najran,%20Thousands%20Taken%20Prisoners ,%20September%2029,%202019.htm)

https://twitter.com/thoulfikar3ali

Not sure how to post the T*****r link seprately but the poor video shows lots of celebration and a pretty deceny sized convoy. but looking further down Bojo is suggesting Rouhani jump into a swimming pool.

rattman

29th Sep 2019, 20:41

BBC Foreign Service will parrot what Saudi's say until they cannot. Not sure whether there is still the fawning interview Frank Gardner did with MBS a couple of years ago.

This shows a lot of people and equipment and don't think Oshkosh gave any equipment to Yemen.
3 Saudi Military Brigades Destroyed in a Yemeni Offensive in Najran, Thousands Taken Prisoners. September 29, 2019 (http://aljazeerah.info/News/2019/September/29%20n/3%20Saudi%20Military%20Brigades%20Destroyed%20in%20a%20Yemen i%20Offensive%20in%20Najran,%20Thousands%20Taken%20Prisoners ,%20September%2029,%202019.htm)

https://twitter.com/thoulfikar3ali

Not sure how to post the T*****r link seprately but the poor video shows lots of celebration and a pretty deceny sized convoy. but looking further down Bojo is suggesting Rouhani jump into a swimming pool.

So hard to tell other places regulars are saying thats old footage like over 12 months. That said there is some floating around they believe might be from the latest one. They claim they captured 2000 yemeni and sudanize mercs, with over 200 + vehicles. Purported pictures show everything for toyota 4wd to mraps, lavs to to an M113 with a vulcan on it

dead_pan

30th Sep 2019, 08:07

I think that Prince Mohammad Bin Salman making a clear public statement about taking this to the UN is a tentative step in preparing the ground for that option

I think its more a case of him talking the talk so as not to lose too much face. I see no prospect them actually instigating such a venture - they'd much rather stand in the background and let the US or Israel take the lead on this, which I can't see happening anytime soon.

Not sure whether there is still the fawning interview Frank Gardner did with MBS a couple of years ago.

You clearly missed the report he gave after the Khashoggi murder - no holds barred there. I'm guessing Frank won't be invited back anytime soon. Your point is valid though - the BBC reporting on Saudi over the years has been pretty abysmal.

racedo

30th Sep 2019, 13:04

I think its more a case of him talking the talk so as not to lose too much face. I see no prospect them actually instigating such a venture - they'd much rather stand in the background and let the US or Israel take the lead on this, which I can't see happening anytime soon.

You clearly missed the report he gave after the Khashoggi murder - no holds barred there. I'm guessing Frank won't be invited back anytime soon. Your point is valid though - the BBC reporting on Saudi over the years has been pretty abysmal.

BBC went with a story after everything out in the open. There was no downside as everybody doing the same thing. Since Death of a Princess, the BBC World has listened to their paymasters in Foreign office.

racedo

30th Sep 2019, 13:13

So hard to tell other places regulars are saying thats old footage like over 12 months. That said there is some floating around they believe might be from the latest one. They claim they captured 2000 yemeni and sudanize mercs, with over 200 + vehicles. Purported pictures show everything for toyota 4wd to mraps, lavs to to an M113 with a vulcan on it

Agree difficult to know exact detail but seems Israeli news media have been reporting it even with them on holiday. Only thing I taking from it being new is that the Houthi's would have published it last year.

Guess KSA may start to realise, just because you pay all that money to people to fight for the glory of KSA and die for it in som ****ty wasteland. The people concerned may look at it differently and think thanks for the cash but I want to see tomorrow. The ex Mil and Industry contractors I know who have spent time there had a pretty similar view to be fair.

rattman

30th Sep 2019, 22:36

Agree difficult to know exact detail but seems Israeli news media have been reporting it even with them on holiday. Only thing I taking from it being new is that the Houthi's would have published it last year.

Theres a lot of footage going purported to be of the offensive that is months/years old. But there is some pretty much agreed to be a current.

I have no ability to read /speak but this apparently from the offensive you see the same burned out and overturned vehicles in some of the other footage

https://twitter.com/Sunkway_China/status/1178550389865512962

Apparently I cant post links yet, look for " (https://twitter.com/Sunkway_China/status/1178550389865512962) Sunkway_China " on twitter

racedo

30th Sep 2019, 23:02

Theres a lot of footage going purported to be of the offensive that is months/years old. But there is some pretty much agreed to be a current.

I have no ability to read /speak but this apparently from the offensive you see the same burned out and overturned vehicles in some of the other footage

https://twitter.com/Sunkway_China/status/1178550389865512962

Apparently I cant post links yet, look for " (https://twitter.com/Sunkway_China/status/1178550389865512962) Sunkway_China (https://twitter.com/Sunkway_China/status/1178550389865512962) " on twitter

A lot seems to be current and was puzzled by the 3 - 4 vehicles all burning together but appears that KSA AF attacked and bombed their own vehicles when realised they captured killing many of their own mercaneries.

weemonkey

2nd Oct 2019, 13:12

Losing face is to many of the Saudi elite worse than death.

Depending on how this is seen "at home" and any reactions to it, it wouldn't surprise me to see them doing something really drastic.

Thank heavens for the independent deterrent.

racedo

2nd Oct 2019, 18:57

ORAC

15th Feb 2020, 13:38

https://sputniknews.com/world/202002151078322846-spokesman-for-saudi-led-coalition-reportedly-says-military-plane-has-crashed-in-yemen/

RSAF Tornado Down in Yemen

A spokesman for the Saudi-led coalition confirms military aircraft has crashed in Yemen. The statement comes a day after Yemen's Houthi militia reported downing a Saudi-led coalition Tornado warplane with a surface-to-air missile.......

A day earlier, Houthi spokeperson Brig. Gen. Yahya Saria reported (https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/202002141078318715-houthis-claim-downing-tornado-warplane-carrying-out-hostile-missions/) that the militia had downed an "enemy jet" over northern Yemen using a new kind of cutting-edge surface-to-air missile.

https://twitter.com/alihashem_tv/status/1228648901315567616?s=21

Lonewolf_50

15th Feb 2020, 14:50

Two guesses on the origin of that missile.

RAFEngO74to09

15th Feb 2020, 18:36

TEEEJ

15th Feb 2020, 21:30

Definitely a RSAF Tornado - NSN of part of UK manufactured ECM system clearly visible in piece of wreckage at 1:42 on this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chUd8pkaFxg

https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/5865-99-766-6768

That is old footage from a 2018 shoot down over Yemen. From the video description.

Yemen air defense shot down a Saudi Tornado fighter (Made in UK) on January 7, 2018 over Sa'ada province.

https://www.aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=203972

TEEEJ

15th Feb 2020, 21:43

Yemen's Houthi militia have released a video.

QE7LZFvquP4

Tashengurt

15th Feb 2020, 22:07

I wonder if the two dots of light that shoot off after the second impact at about 0:43 are the crew banging out?

Easy Street

16th Feb 2020, 08:08

I wonder if the two dots of light that shoot off after the second impact at about 0:43 are the crew banging out?

I’d say almost certainly yes. If you step through frame-by-frame you can actually see 5 bright spots leave the aircraft very quickly around that point. The first 3 all flare up brightly, accelerate away from the aircraft and fade quickly to leave a faint trail. I reckon these are the canopy jettison rockets and then the 2 seat rockets leaving in the command ejection sequence. Then there are 2 bright spots which don’t flare up, accelerate or fade, but drift away from the falling aircraft. I’d be guessing what these are; hot debris associated with ejection seat function seems a reasonable possibility.

I also don’t think this was after a ‘second’ impact. The first event at 0:15 looks to me like 3 flares being dispensed. These appear to seduce the green tracking box on the screen before it then jumps back to the aircraft (very advanced camera for a rag-tag bunch of rebels :hmm: - it also recovers to track the falling aircraft after initially being seduced by the explosion) and notably they seem to be deployed at roughly the same time as the SAM would have been launched, which makes me wonder if they were deployed automatically by a system detecting it. It seems unlikely to me that the crew had much/any awareness as they would presumably have deployed more flares and/or manoeuvred.

Onceapilot

16th Feb 2020, 09:18

Tornado canopy not normally "jettisoned".

OAP

edit: It does go as part of the ejection sequence.

Tashengurt

16th Feb 2020, 10:11

.I also don’t think this was after a ‘second’ impact. The first event at 0:15 looks to me like 3 flares being dispensed. These appear to seduce the green tracking box on the screen before it then jumps back to the aircraft (very advanced camera for a rag-tag bunch of

I see what you mean. Much clearer without wine involved.
No rockets on Tornado canopies as far as I know. Just a big ass cutting cord to split it in half.

superplum

16th Feb 2020, 11:24

I see what you mean. Much clearer without wine involved.
No rockets on Tornado canopies as far as I know. Just a big ass cutting cord to split it in half.

Tornados' had/have two canopy jettison rocket motors; one fitted at each of the two front corners.

Easy Street

16th Feb 2020, 11:48

Tornado canopy not normally "jettisoned".

OAP

Stated with such confidence. And wrong.

If you insist on evidence, read paragraph 1.4.5.22 of this (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/323449/Tornado_ZD743_ZD812_Part_1_4_5.pdf) SI report. And I don’t see why you’d “air quote” someone when you’re evidently beyond your area of direct knowledge.

No rockets on Tornado canopies as far as I know. Just a big ass cutting cord to split it in half.

Much more polite ;) but see reference above. The cord is there as a backup in case of jettison failure or for manual use when trapped during ground egress in situations where jettison would be inadvisable (eg in a HAS).

Tashengurt

16th Feb 2020, 17:07

Stated with such confidence. And wrong.

If you insist on evidence, read paragraph 1.4.5.22 of this (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/323449/Tornado_ZD743_ZD812_Part_1_4_5.pdf) SI report. And I don’t see why you’d “air quote” someone when you’re evidently beyond your area of direct knowledge.

Much more polite ;) but see reference above. The cord is there as a backup in case of jettison failure or for manual use when trapped during ground egress in situations where jettison would be inadvisable (eg in a HAS).

Ah, I thought they just had the splitter cord. Always thought that was a risky proposition!

ORAC

1st Mar 2021, 08:44

I’m presuming it was launched from Yemen, and nit direct from Iran which provides them...

https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1365730188483563522?s=20

ORAC

8th Mar 2021, 15:38

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/7/blast-heard-in-saudi-arabias-dhahran-reports

Houthis fire missiles, drones at Saudi oil facilities

Yemen’s Houthi rebels fired drones and missiles at the heart of Saudi Arabia’s oil industry on Sunday, attacking a Saudi Aramco facility at Ras Tanura in an assault the kingdom said was aimed at the security and stability of the global energy supply.

Announcing the attacks, the Houthis also said they attacked military targets in the Saudi cities of Dammam, Asir and Jazan.

The Saudi energy ministry said an oil storage yard at Ras Tanura, the site of an oil refinery and the world’s biggest offshore oil loading facility, was attacked with a drone but there were no casualties or property loss.

“One of the petroleum tank areas at the Ras Tanura Port in the Eastern Region, one of the largest oil ports in the world, was attacked this morning by a drone, coming from the sea,” the ministry said in a statement released by the official Saudi Press Agency.

It added that shrapnel from a ballistic missile fell near Aramco’s residential compound in Dhahran......

Houthi military spokesman Yahya Sarea said the group fired 14 drones and eight ballistic missiles across the border with the kingdom in a “wide operation in the heart of Saudi Arabia”......

The United States mission in Saudi Arabia advised US citizens to take precautions after reports of possible attacks and explosion in the area of Dhahran, Dammam and Khobar in Saudi Arabia’s Eastern Province. The province is home to most of Saudi Aramco’s oil production and export facilities.....

The coalition said earlier on Sunday it intercepted 12 drones launched by the Houthis, including five that were fired towards the kingdom, and two ballistic missiles fired towards Jizan.

Separately, the coalition said it conducted air strikes on Houthi military targets in the Yemeni capital, Sanaa, and other regions and warned that “civilians and civilian objects in the Kingdom are a red line”.......

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/brent-crude-oil-prices-soar-after-attack-on-saudi-arabia-key-facilities-093808911.html

Oil prices soar above $70 after attack on Saudi Arabia key facilities

ORAC

5th Oct 2021, 20:20

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/10/11/the-ship-that-became-a-bomb

The Ship That Became a Bomb

Asturias56

6th Oct 2021, 09:01

A bomb? Crude doesn't explode - tho it could easily leak. Remember the RAF trying to set fire to the Torrey Canyon?

treadigraph

6th Oct 2021, 09:33

Have you read the article Asturias? I'm no expert but it chimes with my understanding of such matters.

ORAC

6th Oct 2021, 11:00

A comparable vessel - and not even in as bad a condition….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiddy_Island_disaster

The Whiddy Island Disaster.

ORAC

24th Jan 2022, 07:47

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/24/united-arab-emirates-intercepts-two-ballistic-missiles-targeting-abu-dhabi

United Arab Emirates intercepts two ballistic missiles targeting Abu Dhabi

The United Arab Emirates intercepted two ballistic missiles claimed by Yemen’s Houthi rebels over the skies of Abu Dhabi early on Monday, authorities said, the second attack in a week (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/17/drones-explosions-three-oil-tankers-airport-abu-dhabi) that targeted the Emirati capital.

The missile fire further escalates tensions across the Persian Gulf, where there has been a series of assaults near but never indisputably on – Emirati soil amid Yemen’s years-long war and the collapse of Iran’s nuclear deal with world powers.

The attacks threaten the business-friendly, tourism-focused efforts of the Emirates, a federation of seven sheikhdoms on the Arabian peninsula which is also home to Dubai. For years, the country has marketed itself as a safe corner of an otherwise-dangerous area.

Videos on social media showed the sky over Abu Dhabi light up before dawn on Monday, with what appeared to be interceptor missiles racing into the clouds to target the incoming fire. Two explosions later thundered through the city. The videos showed known features of Abu Dhabi.

The state-run WAM news agency said that missile fragments fell harmlessly over Abu Dhabi.

The Emirates “is ready and ready to deal with any threats and that it takes all necessary measures to protect the state from all attacks,” WAM quoted the UAE defence ministry as saying.

The missile fire disrupted traffic into Abu Dhabi international airport, home to the long-haul carrier Etihad, for about an hour after the attack.

Houthi military spokesperson Yehia Sarei claimed the attack in a televised statement, saying the rebels targeted the UAE with ballistic missiles and drones. He warned the UAE would continue to be a target “as long as attacks on the Yemeni people continue.”

“We warn foreign companies and investors to leave the Emirates!” Sarei shouted from a podium. “This has become an unsafe country!”

The US embassy in Abu Dhabi later issued a security alert to Americans living in the UAE, warning citizens to “maintain a high level of security awareness”.

The alert included instructions on how to cope with missile attacks, something unheard-of previously in the UAE, a tourist destination home to skyscraper-studded Dubai and its long-haul carrier Emirates.

The Emirati defence ministry later tweeted out a black-and-white video that it said showed an F-16 striking the ballistic missile launcher used in the Abu Dhabi attack. It identified the site as being near al-Jawaf, a Yemeni province about 1,400km (870 miles) south-west of Abu Dhabi…..

ORAC

25th Jan 2022, 05:42

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/uaes-defense-ministry-destroyed-2-houthi-ballistic-missiles-wam-2022-01-24/

Yemen's Houthis fail in second missile attack on UAE

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uae-intercepts-two-missiles-heading-for-abu-dhabi-fired-by-houthis-fwbqhnbdg

UAE intercepts two missiles heading for Abu Dhabi fired by Houthis

Two ballistic missiles fired by rebels in Yemen were intercepted over Abu Dhabi today, the explosions lighting up the night sky over one of the world’s key oil capitals.

Houthi rebels said they were aimed at the al-Dhafra air base, which the United Arab Emirates armed forces share with the United States and France, putting the Gulf’s western allies as well as their businesses in the cross-hairs as Yemen’s civil war crosses borders.

Yemen’s Houthi rebels said they also targeted Dubai, the UAE’s second city, 90 miles along the coast from Abu Dhabi and a major business and tourism hub. However, there was no immediate sign of missiles landing there or being intercepted.….

Today’s missile attack followed warnings over the weekend by the Houthis that they would target the many western businesses based in the UAE. They include oil giants and arms companies in Abu Dhabi, and finance, trade and tourism companies, particularly in Dubai and Jebel Ali port.

They won significant support from their backers in Tehran. Kayhan, a hardline newspaper associated with the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, bore a photograph of Dubai’s skyscrapers under the headline “Evacuate the UAE’s business towers”. It also quoted Houthi officials warning of more strikes. The stock exchange in Dubai was hit, with shares falling across the board later on Monday.….

ORAC

31st Jan 2022, 07:00

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abu-dhabi-expats-left-shaken-after-attempted-missile-strike-by-houthis-nfr2kt7n0

Abu Dhabi expats left shaken after attempted missile strike by Houthis

…..Abu Dhabi was once named one of the safest countries in the world by the World Economic Forum, but now those living there are on edge after attacks by Yemen’s Houthi rebels, the latest of which was in the early hours of Monday morning.

The UAE’s Ministry of Defence announced that at 12.20am its air defences had destroyed a ballistic missile intercepted on its way to the UAE. There were no casualties as the missile dropped into an unpopulated area.

In a tweet, the ministry said: ”The UAE air defence forces and the Coalition Command succeeded in destroying the missile launcher in Yemen after identifying locations of the sites.” It reiterated its “full readiness to deal with any threats” and adding that it would “take all necessary measures to protect the UAE from any [further] attacks”….

Last Monday, two ballistic missiles fired by rebels in Yemen were intercepted over Abu Dhabi (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uae-intercepts-two-missiles-heading-for-abu-dhabi-fired-by-houthis-fwbqhnbdg). The Houthis said they had been aimed at the al-Dhafra air base. The rebels said they also targeted Dubai, the UAE’s second city and tourism hub, 90 miles along the coast from Abu Dhabi.

Last week, the Houthis had targeted an oil storage facility (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/yemens-houthi-rebels-kill-three-in-uae-drone-strike-vk5f6r5d6) near Abu Dhabi, killing three workers, two Indian and one Pakistani….

This week, the Foreign Office raised the threat level for Abu Dhabi and warned British citizens to be vigilant, saying that terrorist attacks were “very likely”.

On Thursday, the US advised its citizens to avoid travel to the UAE, which is now a level four “do not travel” status, citing “threats of mission or drone attacks” as well as Covid-19.…..

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/united-arab-emirates-travel-advisory.html

Asturias56

31st Jan 2022, 10:06

"Abu Dhabi was once named one of the safest countries in the world by the World Economic Forum, but now those living there are on edge after attacks by Yemen’s Houthi rebels, the latest of which was in the early hours of Monday morning."

I heard from a colleague working there that everyone was expecting it - things occasionally go bump in the night in the Emirates and people just keep their mouths shut

dead_pan

31st Jan 2022, 11:28

This will hammer the tourist trade in Dubai too, also Emirates which relies on people hubbing through DXB.

Asturias56

1st Feb 2022, 07:18

"This will hammer the tourist trade in Dubai too,"

Doubt it - the average punter going to Dubai has no idea where it is, wouldn't connect it with Abu Dhabi or the UAE, and knows that wherever you go these days there's always the chance of someone trying to kill people

Thud_and_Blunder

1st Feb 2022, 12:48

I only heard about the first attack because I occasionally catch up on Al Jazeerah - hardly any coverage initially on the Beeb. We're so inward-focused these days - sad. Must re-tune to the World Service ont' steam radio...

chopper2004

16th Dec 2023, 11:33

Can say the skipper and crews are diamond geezers with Sea Viper did its job.

https://www.forces.net/services/navy/hms-diamond-shoots-down-attack-drone?fbclid=IwAR1yqImvzzOKSWwdxio09iD6oXkjwd8CNhIDIgiI3IWn6-1nM9Z-vnEgfuM

cheers

Ninthace

16th Dec 2023, 11:56

Bravo Zulu Diamond.

KiloB

16th Dec 2023, 18:34

Perhaps, after the Sea Viper a Tomahawk should also be fired on a reciprocal bearing?

Ninthace

16th Dec 2023, 19:41

Perhaps, after the Sea Viper a Tomahawk should also be fired on a reciprocal bearing?
How far? :8

KiloB

16th Dec 2023, 20:37

I’m fairly sure that data is available.

Ninthace

16th Dec 2023, 21:17

I’m fairly sure that data is available.
I admire your faith.

Lonewolf_50

19th Dec 2023, 12:28

News report: (https://www.dw.com/en/us-launches-red-sea-force-against-attacks-by-yemens-houthis/a-67764682)
A multinational naval force will be deployed in the Red Sea to defend against attacks from Houthis that have disrupted international shipping routes, United States Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin announced on Tuesday.

"The recent escalation in reckless Houthi attacks originating from Yemen threatens the free flow of commerce, endangers innocent mariners, and violates international law," Austin, who is on a trip to Bahrain, home to the US Navy's headquarters in the Middle East, said.

Dubbed "Operation Prosperity Guardian," the US-led coalition will include Britain, Bahrain, Canada, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Seychelles and Spain. They will reinforce a US and Egyptian-led force already operating in the region.The Iran-backed along the key route in response to Israel's war on Hamas.On Tuesday, the militants said they would not halt attacks on Red Sea shipping despite the announcement of the new maritime protection force.
"Even if America succeeds in mobilizing the entire world, our military operations will not stop... no matter the sacrifices it costs us," senior Houthi official Mohammed al-Bukhaiti said on X, formerly Twitter. He added that the group would "respond to any aggression with military operations that are unprecedented."
I think he's about to receive some incoming.

In the last four weeks, Houthi militants have attacked or seized commercial ships 12 times and still hold 25 members of the MV Galaxy Leader hostage in Yemen, according to the US.

The UN Security Council discussed the Houthi threat on Monday but took no immediate action.
Gee, who saw that coming?
About 12% of world shipping traffic usually transits via the Suez Canal, the shortest shipping route between Europe and Asia, passing into the Red Sea waters off Yemen.
On Monday, oil giant BP (https://www.dw.com/en/bp-to-pause-red-sea-shipping-transits-over-security-concerns/a-67756177) said it had paused shipments through the Red Sea, pushing up oil prices.
Just in time for Christmas.

Ninthace

19th Dec 2023, 13:24

I would have thought any attempted blockade starting now would be too late for Christmas, but I bet it will be a good excuse for some early price rises.

Lonewolf_50

20th Dec 2023, 20:34

Operation Cancel Christmas is already underway. Do you understand the joke?

A Houthi rebel leader has warned of retaliatory efforts against American warships if the Yemeni group is targeted by the U.S. as part of a newly launched operation to counter attacks on commercial shipping in the Red Sea. The warning comes a day after Houthi rebels based in Yemen attacked two commercial shipping vessels south of the Red Sea. A spokesperson for the Houthi rebels said on Monday they had attacked two vessels that had alleged links to Israel, Newsweek reported.
In response, the U.S. is leading a new international force, Operation Prosperity Guardian, to ensure that the region remains safe for commercial shipping, despite the Houthi rebel attacks. Given the time of year this is, it smells a lot more like Operation Cancel Christmas. :p
"We will not stand idly by if the Americans are tempted to escalate further and commit foolishness by targeting our country or waging war against it," Abdel-Malik al-Houthi said in a televised statement. "Any American targeting of our country will be targeted by us, and we will make American battleships, interests, and navigation a target for our missiles, drones, and military operations."

"The American fought our people with humanitarian aid, even with food that was provided through the World Food Program, and yet he threatens more," Al-Houthi said in the statement. "Whatever the Americans do against our people, we rely on God and confront the Americans. We prefer a direct war with the Americans and the Zionist enemy." He's talking a lot of smack.

Asturias56

21st Dec 2023, 07:29

Like all politicians - it plays well at home..............

tartare

21st Dec 2023, 22:37

Surprised at the population of Yemen - nearly 33 million and growing.
Wife spent time in Aden as a little girl, and then went to Sanaa in '99 on a news job - still talks about it - said it was absolutely beautiful.
Absolute tragedy what's happened since.

Asturias56

22nd Dec 2023, 08:01

It is a striking place - beautiful if you like places like Monument Valley. Rather similar to Muscat .

The population rise is a classic - women are not as well educated in general as men (and many of them aren't really educated at all outside the cities) and there aren't tha t many in jobs . Once women start to earn their own living the birth rate drops like a stone.

ORAC

5th Feb 2024, 21:02

https://x.com/airpowernew1/status/1754500814406590559?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A

"A Saudi Patriot battery shot down six Houthi ballistic missiles in 48 sec.. According to officials, battery commanders launched an undisclosed number of Patriots to intercept the incoming missiles, with one missile being launched every six seconds".

https://t.co/R0rwiHZos7

SRFred

6th Feb 2024, 07:43

"A Saudi Patriot battery shot down six Houthi ballistic missiles in 48 sec.. According to officials, battery commanders launched an undisclosed number of Patriots to intercept the incoming missiles, with one missile being launched every six seconds".

https://t.co/R0rwiHZos7
You should have highlighted that this occurred in 2019 and is not a current occurrence.

ORAC

22nd Mar 2024, 05:15

Yemen's Houthi rebels have assured Russia and China that their ships can safely travel through the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden, according (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-21/china-russia-reach-agreement-with-yemen-s-houthis-on-red-sea-ships?srnd=homepage-europe) to a Bloomberg report.

In return, both China and Russia have promised to provide some "political support" to the Shia militant group.

The exact nature of the help has not been detailed, but it may include backing them in international institutions, such as by blocking resolutions aimed at the Houthis in the United Nations Security Council, Bloomberg reported.

In January, the Security Council adopted (https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145382) a resolution condemning Houthi attacks on cargo ships in the Red Sea; China and Russia abstained during that vote.

ORAC

24th Mar 2024, 08:13

Hmm, the dog that didn’t bark….

Nite that no attempt seems to have been made to intercept the ballistic missiles……

https://x.com/centcom/status/1771726107168960751?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
CENTCOM:

MARCH 23 RED SEA UPDATE

From 2:50 to 4:30 a.m. (Sanaa time) March 23, the Iranian-backed Houthis launched four anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBM) into the Red Sea in the vicinity of M/V Huang Pu, a Panamanian-flagged, Chinese-owned, Chinese-operated oil tanker.

At 4:25 p.m. (Sanaa time), a fifth ballistic missile was detected as fired toward M/V Huang Pu. The ship issued a distress call but did not request assistance.

M/V Huang Pu suffered minimal damage, and a fire on board was extinguished within 30 minutes. No casualties were reported, and the vessel resumed its course. The Houthis attacked the MV Huang despite previously stating they would not attack Chinese vessels.

Between 6:50 and 9:50 a.m. (Sanaa time), U.S. forces, including USS Carney (DDG 64), engaged six Houthi unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) over the southern Red Sea. Five crashed into the Red Sea, and one flew inland into Houthi-controlled areas of Yemen.

It was determined these UAVs presented an imminent threat to U.S., coalition, and merchant vessels in the region. These actions are taken to protect freedom of navigation and make international waters safer and more secure for U.S, coalition, and merchant vessels.

jolihokistix

24th Mar 2024, 11:39

Is the M/V Huang Pu definitely Chinese and not Taiwanese owned?

Lonewolf_50

27th Mar 2024, 18:53

In a related article, in Telegraph, a (retired) Captain Tom Sharpe offered this up after discussing the attack on M/V Huang Pu
On 20 March a French Navy helicopter was directed onto a Samad drone (https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/03/french-navy-helicopter-shoots-down-houthi-drone-in-red-sea/) and engaged it successfully with gunfire. Given that the two aircraft have comparable top speeds, this is a remarkable piece of airmanship and then marksmanship. Not to be outdone, German frigate Hessen’s Lynx helicopter armed with a .50 cal machine gun did the same a few days later. Speaking as a former warship captain, anything that adds layers and improves the stand-off distance at which enemy weapons can be knocked down is to be welcomed – as is anything that allows you to keep back precious missiles to use against faster, more difficult cruise or ballistic missiles. As a method though, this should not be relied upon. Small helicopters flown from frigates and destroyers have short legs, particularly in the heat, and can only fly for so many hours in a day before rest and maintenance become obligatory. You would also have to be very quick to get one launched in response to an incoming drone, whilst the act of launching makes you less manoeuvrable at a time when you want your moves the most. It also makes you more vulnerable if there is a follow-on missile attack. But if the aircraft are up already, and the ships are sharp, then this is a remarkable development. Nobody would have foreseen the use of humble helicopters as air-to-air interceptors.
Actually, we foresaw it about 40 years ago. (FWIW out at MAWTS they had hung Sidewinders on Cobras well before that).
We were patrolling the Eastern Med a bit after the suicide bomb barracks attacks in Lebanon. We had a variety of things to go out and look for on a daily basis.
One of the threats we trained for was the small, light commercial aircraft (think Cessna or similar) non-squawker. Tight RoE.

The SH-2F could comfortably run about at 135 knots. Our ASAC/Controller ran a variety of intercept exercises with us on known fixed wing air contacts, and any number of unknowns. (He used to be on an AAW ship, so we were his "slow Tomcat" :p)
We sometimes used friendly helicopters who would pose as the non-squawker light aircraft. (Assumed suicide attackers).
Not sure about Captain Sharpe's lack of imagination, but we didn't share it. (We had a few things to sort out as regards mounting an M-60 in the SH-2F's door area ...that's a while back)

In the early 90's I added these kinds of drills on my SH-60B detachment. On the bright side, how to mount an M-60 to an SH-60B had already been sorted out in the Persian Guld in the 80's, although much of that was in aid of anti-mine warfare.
People have been using helicopters for Air to Air from the backs of ships for a bit longer than Captain Sharp imagines.

Also: tip-of-the cap to the German and French aircrews who got the drones. Well done. :ok: