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Tourist
26th Mar 2015, 21:04
It says a lot about the "military" section of Pprune, that amongst the usual historical threads there is nothing about the ongoing Yemeni airstrikes.

Not interesting enough?

Every gulf Arab state except Oman involved, but less interesting to Military aircrew than buffoonery from an Airbus pilot?

Hangarshuffle
26th Mar 2015, 21:38
Yea, you're right to bring it up and have a pop at them. I've just been watching it on UK's Channel 4 news. Aircraft from Egypt and Sudan, Saudi, Jordan....UAE.
Bet half of those jets were serviced by UK or European people. Aircrew trained by likewise....hey sleep easy.
Amazing how war has become the new normal. Nobody ever seems to bat an eyelid now.
The bombing itself wiped out some families (you know-men women and children all linked together) in residential urban areas but since when was that news or pricked the conscience of any steely brave young aviator?


Well, this sort of savage madness in the world will come back to us all one day. We are on borrowed time.


Anyway there's stories about people painting there fingernails red elsewhere on Prune, so carry on regardless.

mr fish
26th Mar 2015, 21:46
Yemeni prez has reportedly crossed over into Saudi.


supposedly to attend a "meeting" with other arab leaders........I guess the games up!!!


FISH.

bill2b
26th Mar 2015, 23:41
"Will you stop posting once you leave the "Mob" then ?"

Yes, I will lose the name Tourist, and move on to other forums. It is possible/likely that I might read occasionally, and even post if something comes up about the past, but I will not post on subjects that I am no longer current.

Are you currently in Yemen then? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tourist
27th Mar 2015, 06:49
Bill

Since you have bothered to go back and check my posts from the past (slightly stalky...?), you might spot an interlude where I didn't post on the military forum. Now I do again. What might you conclude from that?

just another jocky
27th Mar 2015, 07:11
The bombing itself wiped out some families (you know-men women and children all linked together) in residential urban areas but since when was that news or pricked the conscience of any steely brave young aviator?


I don't know you or your posting history but I assume you are not aircrew therefore what makes you think you are qualified to make such an outrageous statement?

If you are aircrew, then why did you make such an outrageous statement?

ian16th
27th Mar 2015, 08:48
I mentioned it 2 days ago on the RAF Khormaksar thread.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/557452-raf-khormaksar-5.html

Tourist
27th Mar 2015, 09:26
My apologies Ian, so you did.

I don't read the historic threads unless they are relevant to me so I missed it.

Tourist
27th Mar 2015, 09:34
Yemen's Civil War Threatens Global Stability (http://news.sky.com/story/1453430/yemens-civil-war-threatens-global-stability)


Saudi Arabia launches air strikes in Yemen - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32061632)


http://rt.com/news/244117-saudi-arabia-bombs-yemen-houthis/

bill2b
27th Mar 2015, 09:45
Tourist
I didn't go back through your posts I looked at my own and I seem to remember your slating of low life non military on the forum.
You said once you left the Military "Tourist" name would go, have you moved into politics then?
Anyway Its nothing as creepy as private PM messages :rolleyes:

Tourist
27th Mar 2015, 10:56
Bill

I will spell it out for you.

I was military, then I was not, and now I am again.

Never slated non military, just questioned their appearing on the military forum.

Is this really more interesting than a region wide conflict involving multiple actors, some of which are not far from/may effectively already have buckets of sunshine?

Right now, large numbers of modern western made aircraft with smart weapons are operating over another sovereign state and dropping weapons, and nobody gives a toss?!? :eek:

ORAC
27th Mar 2015, 11:26
Run down on the horses and riders, no odds on the winner however....

Gulf Sunnis opposing Iranian hegemony in Yemen war (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4641573,00.html)

Cows getting bigger
27th Mar 2015, 12:07
I was in Salalah the other day.

Tourist
27th Mar 2015, 12:08
It will be an interesting test of the various "modern" Arab airforces to see whether having the right shiny kit is the same as having the capability to precision strike.


Can anybody remind me of the last time a non-western power tried something on this scale?

Courtney Mil
27th Mar 2015, 12:22
One can always tell when a thread's going to get interesting, especially when the opening posts are phrased like these.

It says a lot about the "military" section of PPRuNe, that amongst the usual historical threads there is nothing about the ongoing Yemeni airstrikes.

Not interesting enough?


Tourist, you post here the same as everyone else and you posted about this item. Good. Someone else may well have done if you hadn't.

you're right to bring it up and have a pop at them

YOU are THEM. We're all members of the forum.

Still, it's a very entertaining start.

ORAC
27th Mar 2015, 12:44
I could be cynical and point out that:

a. An expected side effect is that the price of oil has started to rise, of benefit to all main protagonists.

b. As DeGaulle pointed out grudgingly about the British, they always had the sense to fight their wars in other peoples countries, and Yemen joins Iraq to the list where Where Iran and Saudi are fighting their regional hegemonic fight.

c. With Iran poised to become a nuclear power and Pakistan presumed to be a current or planned supplier to Saudi, perhaps it is better this were sorted out sooner than later.

rolling20
27th Mar 2015, 12:49
Anyone know if they are using F15s/Tornados or Eurofighters? I only ask as the Eurofighter is unproven as yet and wondered if they were fully operational with the Saudis.

Tourist
27th Mar 2015, 13:42
Well, the Saudis are said to be using "100 aircraft" on various news sources. This suggests to me that most of the toys are in play.

Not sure what use a Typhoon is against tw@ts in pickups though.

Cows getting bigger
27th Mar 2015, 14:17
22°46'31.12"N 55° 3'49.82"E :ooh:

Reinhardt
27th Mar 2015, 16:13
Eurofighter Typhoon is useless in air-to-ground - never heard of them in Afghan or Lybian operations ...
and the relevant Air Forces headquarters know about that

ORAC
27th Mar 2015, 16:28
Eurofighter Typhoon is useless in air-to-ground - never heard of them in Afghan or Lybian operations ...and the relevant Air Forces headquarters know about

I think you'll find they were doing precision bombing in Libya.........

Rhino power
27th Mar 2015, 16:29
Eurofighter Typhoon is useless in air-to-ground - never heard of them in Afghan or Lybian operations ...

Wrong... The RAF used the Typhoon to drop LGB's during ops over Libya.

-RP

ORAC beat me to it!

just another jocky
27th Mar 2015, 16:30
Well you weren't listening loud enough then because they were definitely used air-to-ground in Libya.

Damn....beaten to it, twice!

Courtney Mil
27th Mar 2015, 16:54
Reinhardt, you're not the new defence correspondent for The Daily Mail are you?

melmothtw
27th Mar 2015, 17:29
Eurofighter Typhoon is useless in air-to-ground - never heard of them in Afghan or Lybian operations ...
and the relevant Air Forces headquarters know about that

At the risk of labouring an already well made point....

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag380/garethjennings1/149037_800_zpshwstmax0.jpg (http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/garethjennings1/media/149037_800_zpshwstmax0.jpg.html)

jonw66
27th Mar 2015, 17:59
A fine squadron to boot melmothw

Courtney Mil
27th Mar 2015, 18:08
Point well made, Mel.

Brian W May
27th Mar 2015, 18:49
"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"

About bloody time Saudi et al got involved in their own backyard . . . instead of spending our personnel and GDP.

As EX-military, am I not allowed here then?

Courtney Mil
27th Mar 2015, 19:29
Depends who you ask, Brian. This wouldn't be much of a forum without ex-military contributors. But as ex-service perhaps it's not for me to say.

Hangarshuffle
27th Mar 2015, 19:31
Yea its great, loads of little kids dead.
Video: Air strikes continue killing 39 in Yemen - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/11500407/Air-strikes-continue-killing-39-in-Yemen.html)


War, bombing and killing here is not the answer and probably never will be. The people of the Yemen are about as backward and as simple (in their own way) as its still possible to find on the planet, yet these ******** have decided now to bomb and attack and kill many of them in their own homes, killing innocent civilians-little children WTF is good about that>//?

jonw66
27th Mar 2015, 19:47
A very nice post from you Hangarshuffle with you on their side everything will be peachy.

Courtney Mil
27th Mar 2015, 21:02
Hangarshuffle, put the bottle down and take your medication. Weren't you military at some stage?

An ex-Navy anti-war fanatic?

bill2b
27th Mar 2015, 21:06
As EX-military, am I not allowed here then?
Only if Tourist says so. This thread has brought it all back how a few pompous twits can alienate some nice knowledgeable folk.
Anyway my view if I am allowed one being as I was only a Cpl Rigger (23 yrs.) Saudi are in cahoots with their American puppets the whole thing has nothing to do with Oil but rather than how oil can be sold. If you run a prosperous country and your people love you but you decide that you do not wish to fund the IMF robbers and sell your Oil for Gold you are a target.
Libya is a prime example.
I used to believe all I was told and I took my Naps tablets as ordered but as I have grown older I have come to realise we are all being duped.
Building 7 is a fine example, war in Yemen is just a extra money spinner for the American/ Israeli money men.

Tourist
27th Mar 2015, 21:27
Bill2b

"alienate some nice knowledgeable folk"

Do you consider yourself one of them?

"war in Yemen is just a extra money spinner for the American/ Israeli money men. "

It may be many things, but not many of the nice and knowledgeable persuasion would consider this war to fall under that heading.

bill2b
27th Mar 2015, 21:59
Tourist
Lets just end with I think you are a complete """"" and I do not give a toss what you think of me :p

I know nothing :ugh::ugh:

bill2b
27th Mar 2015, 22:04
:rolleyes: Shame there is not an avatar depicting a blinkered person :rolleyes:
Let alone a complete :=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=

ORAC
27th Mar 2015, 22:16
Jumping into the Abyss (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-battle-for-the-middle-easts-future-begins-in-yemen-as-saudi-arabia-jumps-into-the-abyss-10140145.html)

jonw66
27th Mar 2015, 23:08
All very strange Bill just leave it thats the only advice I can give.
Agendas somewhere.

AGS Man
28th Mar 2015, 06:26
Can't say too much for obvious reasons but as Tourist put it, Yes most of the toys are in play, some on CAP and some sandmoving.

high spirits
28th Mar 2015, 06:41
It's a curious situation to me. The U.S. Govt whilst militarily supporting Saudi against the Iranian backed Houti must be quietly satisfied at the upturn in oil price. Their own industry was being strangled by the Saudis who weren't restricting oil supply and playing the long game to bankrupt American Energy companies who had borrowed a lot of money to get into production.
To the UK public at large, this is a non event. However, they will start to take notice if the Houtis win and the Gulf of Aden gets affected.

ORAC
28th Mar 2015, 07:04
Saudi Arabia blames ‘technical failure’ for its fighter jet crash near Yemen (http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1749490/saudi-arabia-blames-technical-failure-its-fighter-jet-crash-near-yemen)

Saudi Arabia on Saturday blamed a “technical fault” for forcing two of its pilots in an F-15 fighter jet to eject over waters south of Yemen during a mission amid a bombing campaign targeting Shiite rebels in the country.F-15 The official Saudi Press Agency reported that the pilots were in “good health” after ejecting on Thursday. It said the US offered aid to rescue the airmen.

A US Defence Department official told reporters that an American helicopter flew on Thursday from neighbouring Djibouti to the Gulf of Aden and rescued the airmen. The official says the destroyer USS Sterett coordinated assets from the US naval base in Djibouti and the amphibious transport dock USS New York. The US official spoke on condition of anonymity as he wasn’t authorised to brief journalists by name.........

Washington says the US is providing refuelling tankers and surveillance flights for the Saudi operations, and there are several US troops working in the operations centre, but the US is not taking direct military action in the Gulf campaign..........

Also on Friday, Saudi and Egyptian warships deployed to Bab al-Mandab, the strategic strait off Yemen at the entrance of the Red Sea, Egyptian military officials said. The strait gives the only access to Egypt’s Suez Canal from the Arabian Sea and is a vital passage for shipping between Europe and Asia.


U.S. Boosts Aid in Saudi-Led Fight To Defeat Rebel Force in Yemen (http://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-doesnt-currently-plan-on-ground-forces-in-yemen-1427469528)

The U.S. military is preparing to expand its aid to Saudi Arabia in its air campaign against rebel forces in Yemen by providing more intelligence, bombs and aerial refueling missions for planes carrying out airstrikes there, American officials.......

Saudi officials have asked the U.S. to provide air tankers to refuel planes taking part in bombing Houthi forces in neighboring Yemen—and for more American-made bombs to continue with the strikes, the officials said. The U.S. is preparing to provide the Saudis with more help once the requests are approved in Washington, these people said........

The Saudi appeals come as the U.S. is deepening its support for the fight by providing military planners with vital intelligence from surveillance flights to help choose targets for the airstrikes in Yemen, officials said. American military planners are using live intelligence feeds from surveillance flights over Yemen to help Saudi Arabia decide what and where to bomb, U.S. officials said. Under the plan, the U.S. would beef up its role in a new military coordination center set up with the Saudis and other countries in the region taking part in the evolving operation. The center has become the focal point for military planning and a handful of Americans are currently taking part, officials said. That number is expected to grow..........

Hangarshuffle
28th Mar 2015, 08:52
UK 'will support Saudi-led assault on Yemeni rebels - but not engaging in combat' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/11500518/UK-will-support-Saudi-led-assault-on-Yemeni-rebels-but-not-engaging-in-combat.html)

“This is an Iranian-Saudi war playing out on my land, and as a Yemeni, I will be the one left to pick up the pieces when it is finally over.” Sarah Jamal.


Well, if you are taking your money from the Saudis, via BAE or whoever, and are involved in this sort of thing, can you be proud of yourself?
Because your skill and expertise serving them is significantly contributing to the death of many totally innocent Yemeni civilians simply caught up in it all.
Don't think you are not responsible -you are.

Tourist
28th Mar 2015, 09:27
Hangar

You are correct that this is going to cause some western soul searching if this escalates into something big. US and UK armaments being used etc.

It could be argued that the Brits and Americans supporting the Saudis are minimising the civilian damage.
They would be doing this anyway without shiny toys.
Being trained properly to use shiny toys minimises collateral damage.
If BAe etc were not there they would be down the Syrian barrel bombing route, and that is so much worse.

WE Branch Fanatic
28th Mar 2015, 10:45
Surely innocent Yemenis were already being targeted? A few days ago a suicide bombing killed over a hundred worshippers at a Mosque.

Yemen is home to Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. AQAP have been able to attack targets in the West. A failed state on the shores of the Red Sea/Gulf of Aden will be very dangerous.

Worrying times.

TURIN
28th Mar 2015, 11:32
Indeed it is worrying.
Qatar being smack bang in the middle looks isolated and vulnerable. Thoughts anyone?

Brian W May
28th Mar 2015, 11:48
UK 'will support Saudi-led assault on Yemeni rebels - but not engaging in combat' - Telegraph

“This is an Iranian-Saudi war playing out on my land, and as a Yemeni, I will be the one left to pick up the pieces when it is finally over.” Sarah Jamal.


Well, if you are taking your money from the Saudis, via BAE or whoever, and are involved in this sort of thing, can you be proud of yourself?
Because your skill and expertise serving them is significantly contributing to the death of many totally innocent Yemeni civilians simply caught up in it all.
Don't think you are not responsible -you are.

I think you need to ring 020 8789 9121, they can probably help you with your bleeding heart. BTW it's the Central London Branch of The Samaritans.

Failing that, checkout 'Sympathy' it's between 'Sh1t' and 'Syphilis'.

I did some work for BAE and if we hadn't done so then their manuals would have been in French, or Russian - they WILL have their 'toys'.

Proud? Yeah, pretty much - go figure

Ali Barber
28th Mar 2015, 13:16
Don't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite, but I presume they use the same Koran. If one side blows up a mosque, surely they're defacing copies of the Koran which usually seems to get either religion a bit hot under the collar?

ORAC
28th Mar 2015, 13:30
It's kinda like racism.... nonwhites can't be racist. (http://feminspire.com/why-reverse-racism-isnt-real/)...

Hempy
28th Mar 2015, 14:26
Don't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite

Apparently Shiites reckon only direct descendants of Muhammed can lead Islam, whilst Sunnis believe it should be open to debate. Regardless..

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/h3mpy/E7C82C86-E5FB-4918-BD39-CB7B6D2EB6FF_zpsr30u7j2y.jpg

Whenurhappy
28th Mar 2015, 15:34
Without a doubt, this split has taken place on Shi'sa and Sunni lines; with Tehran effectively controlling 4 capitals in the region, finally the GCC and AL have realised that Iranaian ambitions need to be blunted. The trick will be trying to keep the coalition together and focused on restoring the Hadi-led government in San'aa. However, the Iraninas won't take this lying down. Hisbollah will be spun up to attack Israeli interests (who will respond, predictably) undermining the will of the Sunni coalition. Erdogan, President of Turkey, has thrown his political weight behind the coalition; I'd watch your border if I were you Reccip.

Easy Street
29th Mar 2015, 01:00
Two points from me:

1) Hangarshuffle, the only way that the world will ever be at peace is if different cultures learn to accept that they are different, that no one culture is superior, and that no culture has a right to impose its values on another. I think those are sentiments with which you would agree. If you do agree with them, though, you have to accept moral relativism in all its forms... which means if the Saudis and their allies have a higher tolerance than the West does for collateral damage in the conduct of armed conflict, then there is little we can say or do about it. As the Swedes found out recently, there is no rule written in stone that the end-point of the evolution of society looks like western liberal democracy or a western viewpoint on human rights. East Asia has proved that democracy is not a prerequisite for successful capitalism, as had previously been thought, which kind of undermines the whole IMF / World Bank approach and explains why everyone's signing up to the new Chinese development bank. And as the EU and NATO have found out in Ukraine, "soft power" is not the answer either - it runs up against people who only believe in "hard power". It's a big, bad old world out there.

The message here: The West has to get over itself Sweden's feminist foreign policy has seriously annoyed Saudi Arabia (http://www.bustle.com/articles/72007-swedens-feminist-foreign-policy-has-seriously-annoyed-saudi-arabia)

2) Bearing in mind the above, it will be interesting to see:
a) How modern air power performs when rules of engagement are, shall we say, "permissive"...
b) Which of the Gulf states can use their shiny toys to best effect
c) What political price the UK and US will pay with the GCC for refusing to directly participate in a ridiculous regional balance-of-power struggle dressed up in sectarian and tribal clothing.

With any luck, 2c) will see us kicked out of our delusion that we have enough global clout to act as policeman in the Gulf once the Obama completes the US's slow disentanglement from the region. Roll on the Iran deal and let the buggers sort it out for themselves, I say.

jolihokistix
29th Mar 2015, 02:15
Well, if we support Saudi on this, we will be on the side of those who blew up the mosques in Sanaa, ie al Qaida and more specifically IS.

We are supporting Iranian-backed Shiites in Iraq, but Sunnis in Yemen.

In Syria we are bombing Alawite Shiites and backing more moderate Sunnis.

Sunnis and Shiites throughout the region will all know that we are not really to be trusted, as we do not show our true heart with any of them. :ouch:

rh200
29th Mar 2015, 04:30
Actually on one of the other threads a while back ,there was a mind map type of thing depicting who's side who was on, and who was helping who. With these latest developments it needs to be updated.

I think in Iraqi where where helping out the Irainians are the good guys, and in Yemen they are the bad guys.

The Chinese must be sitting back p!ssing themselves laughing. Old passion fingers in the white house is like the little boy pluggin the dyke with his fingers.

Hangarshuffle, the only way that the world will ever be at peace is if different cultures learn to accept that they are different, that no one culture is superior, and that no culture has a right to impose its values on another.

Thats all well and good, how far back do we sit, the problem is actually dc/dp, change in culture across a population, both on a world scale and local groups. Are we really prepared to sit back under all circumstances? It doesn't matter what the huggy fluffies say, honor killings, the most vial things in this world when spread across a population group is culture.

Whenurhappy
29th Mar 2015, 09:09
Saudi officials have asked the U.S. to provide air tankers to refuel planes taking part in bombing Houthi forces in neighboring Yemen—and for more American-made bombs to continue with the strikes, the officials said. The U.S. is preparing to provide the Saudis with more help once the requests are approved in Washington,

Providing certain types of PGMs to KSA is problematic for the US. Israel has to maintain the qualitative edge over any military equipment exports to the Middle East; in other words FMS (part of the State Department) will approve 'slightly' precise weapons, that's all.

t43562
29th Mar 2015, 15:00
Not directly to do with Yemen probably but you can see Saudi Typhoons flying with Eagles:
Zf37PT76WwQ

denachtenmai
29th Mar 2015, 16:01
No apology for this.
Think of it:
· Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
· Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
· Hindus living with Jews = No Problem
· Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
· Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
· Confusians living with Baha'is = No Problem
· Baha'is living with Jews = No Problem
· Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
· Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
· Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
· Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
· Hindus living with Baha'is = No Problem
· Baha'is living with Christians = No Problem
· Christians living with Jews = No Problem
· Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
· Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
· Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
· Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
· Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem

Think of it:
· Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
· Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
· Muslims living with Christians = Problem
· Muslims living with Jews = Problem
· Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
· Muslims living with Baha'is = Problem
· Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
· Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
· MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM
Regards, Den

Heathrow Harry
29th Mar 2015, 16:39
RUBBISH

Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem - Sri Lanka and Tamils???
· Hindus living with Christians = No Problem - regular repression in E India
· Hindus living with Jews = No Problem - no jews in India
· Christians living with Shintos = No Problem - all christians killed by Japanese in 17th Century - Hiroshima
· Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem - ask the CHinese about Nanking
· Confusians living with Baha'is = No Problem - who the hell are Bahia's??
· Baha'is living with Jews = No Problem - who the hell are Bahia's??
· Jews living with Atheists = No Problem really?????
· Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem -
· Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
· Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem - about 1 million dead in 1947
· Hindus living with Baha'is = No Problem - who the hell are Bahia's??
· Baha'is living with Christians = No Problem - who the hell are Bahia's??
· Christians living with Jews = No Problem - Auschwitz
· Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
· Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
· Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
· Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
· Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem - try 1962

and no-one likes the Israelis....................

denachtenmai
29th Mar 2015, 16:49
Picky Picky, HH
Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith)
Regards, Den.

ORAC
29th Mar 2015, 17:30
No Jews in India?

History of the Jews in India (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_India)

Judaism was one of the first foreign religions to arrive in India in recorded history.[3] Indian Jews are a religious minority of India, but unlike many parts of the world, have historically lived in India without any instances of antisemitism from the local majority.........

Christianity in Japan (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Japan)

After checking just two, I don't think I'll bother checking the rest of your spurious claims.

denachtenmai
29th Mar 2015, 17:51
Thanks, ORAC, saved me the bother :ok:
Regards, Den.

Fareastdriver
29th Mar 2015, 18:47
Judging by the number of churches that have been built in China in the last couple of decades the Confucions get along with Christians.

Ignoring Catholic references to the Pope, that is.

Lonewolf_50
29th Mar 2015, 21:39
Building 7 is a fine example,
Indeed it is, of someone who knows nothing, but thinks he knows something.

As to the current killing and such, I don't mind that the locals are finally using their own paid for tools to fight a war rather than rely on outsiders, like my countrymen, to do it for them.

Cry havoc, etc.

Easy Street
29th Mar 2015, 21:46
Judging by the number of churches that have been built in China in the last couple of decades the Confucions get along with Christians.

If culture will be the driving force for future conflict, as predicted by a US academic some 20 years ago, I'd be very happy to see an alignment between the boozing, pork-eating Chinese and the west. Safety in numbers and all that!

Lonewolf_50
29th Mar 2015, 21:51
Some of he best pork I ever ate was cooked in sauces of Chinese style.
I wouldn't kill for it, though. :cool:

As to the toys being used ... they were bought for a purpose. That purpose is to kill someone else. Let's not try and fool anyone as to why the Saudi King bought that kit.

rh200
30th Mar 2015, 00:13
As to the toys being used ... they were bought for a purpose. That purpose is to kill someone else. Let's not try and fool anyone as to why the Saudi King bought that kit.

I'll add a minor correction for you.

As to the toys being used ... they were bought for a purpose. That purpose is to kill someone else if the need should arise. Let's not try and fool anyone as to why the Saudi King bought that kit.

layman
30th Mar 2015, 02:40
Welcome to the Middle East and have a nice day - NevilleHobson.com (http://www.nevillehobson.com/2013/08/26/welcome-to-the-middle-east-and-have-a-nice-day/)

Sir, Iran is backing Assad. Gulf states are against Assad!
Assad is against Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood and Obama are against General Sisi.
But Gulf states are pro Sisi! Which means they are against Muslim Brotherhood!
Iran is pro Hamas, but Hamas is backing Muslim Brotherhood!
Obama is backing Muslim Brotherhood, yet Hamas is against the US!
Gulf states are pro US. But Turkey is with Gulf states against Assad; yet Turkey is pro Muslim Brotherhood against General Sisi. And General Sisi is being backed by the Gulf states!
Welcome to the Middle East and have a nice day.
K N Al-Sabah, London EC4, UK

This is claimed to be a letter to the Financial Times on 22 August 2013

regards
layman

ORAC
30th Mar 2015, 12:01
http://www.post-gazette.com/image/url/520x_q90_cMC_z/image.jpg?url=http://blogs.post-gazette.com/2015_Rogers_Cartoons/032715_Yemen.jpg

Lonewolf_50
30th Mar 2015, 13:58
rh, fair point, correction accepted. :ok:

What's going on in Yemen is doubtless related to what's going on in the never ending "talks (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iran-nuclear-talks-running-out-time-n332141)" with Iran regarding their nuclear programs.

These negotiations strike me as a pawn in a larger game.

ORAC
30th Mar 2015, 14:40
These negotiations strike me as a pawn in a larger game. Obama to throw Israel under the bus?

Washington Post: Obama's Next Earthquake (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-next-earthquake/2015/03/29/93d7599c-d3d5-11e4-ab77-9646eea6a4c7_story.html)

Times (behind firewall): Iranian troops advance towards Israeli border (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/article4396459.ece)

Iran is close to putting its forces on Israel’s northeast border for the first time, as its allies crush rebel groups in the Golan Heights area of Syria.

The prospect of Iranian troops being posted on a frontier that has been calm for decades is causing alarm in Israel, and comes as international negotiations over Iran’s nuclear ambitions near a climax.

“Iran will be so close to the Israelis that it will no longer need long-range missiles to hit them,” said Abu Ali, a fighter with Lebanon’s Iranian-backed Hezbollah organisation who has served multiple combat tours in Syria......

A spokesman for the Syrian rebel forces in southern Syria, Major Issam el-Rayyes, said that 80 per cent of a 5,000-strong force attacking rebels around the Golan Heights were Iranian-backed militias, including Hezbollah, but also Shia fighters from Yemen, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. The offensive into the southern region of Daraa and Quneitra, bordering the Golan Heights, began in February. It is the first time that Iranian forces have operated openly in southern Syria.

“Iran is on the march, its proxies are taking territory,” an Israeli official said.

Abu Ali confirmed that Iranian troops were on the ground. “We are taking the area square by square until we reach the border with Israel.”.......

On January 18, Israeli drones targeted a convoy of vehicles near Quneitra, on the Syrian side of the Golan Heights, killing an Iranian general and six Hezbollah fighters. The highly unusual attack was interpreted as a forceful message to Iran to stay away from the Golan Heights.

It appears to have fallen on deaf ears.

bcgallacher
30th Mar 2015, 16:03
It would be the utmost folly for Iran to threaten Israel - the country is more than capable of taking on any forces that Iran could put in the field. The Iranians would be a long way from home with a long line of supply and an Air Force with limited capability.

Lonewolf_50
30th Mar 2015, 16:39
bcg, I concur, and estimate that the article in question is yet another example of media as fear mongering conduit. :ugh:

rh200
30th Mar 2015, 20:36
These negotiations strike me as a pawn in a larger game.

Most likely correct, who's the pawn?

Obama to throw Israel under the bus?

Don't like the guy, think he's a incompetent f$% wit, but I'm not sure even he would try that, an not sure if he would be allowed to.

It would be the utmost folly for Iran to threaten Israel - the country is more than capable of taking on any forces that Iran could put in the field. The Iranians would be a long way from home with a long line of supply and an Air Force with limited capability.

Though true, but the middle east is just a bigger example of tribalism phenomena (think Afghanistan), where they fight amongst each other until theres a common enemy.

Imagine for a moment Iran did try something big and sustained against Israel? Think sudden polarization and symmetry. Not going to happen, but still worth thinking about.

bcgallacher
31st Mar 2015, 08:56
What we are seeing at the moment is a sectarian war across the Islamic world waged between the Sunni and the Shia.The Arab Israeli conflict is on the back burner because the followers of the two main branches of Islam hate each other more than they hate the Israelis. I find it amusing to read the hate directed by some western media at Israel because of the casualties among Arab civilians when the Arabs have committed atrocities on their own populace in vastly greater quantities.The Arab world has actually given up on the Palestinians due to their self inflicted catastrophes. Hamas is reducing its followers to poverty stricken squalor with its idiotic confrontation with Israel. I spent the best part of 20 years in the Middle East - including Iran - and came to the conclusion that the Arab world is incapable of unifying for a common purpose. The Iranians would never really ally themselves to any great extent with the Arabs as they regard themselves as superior. The wealthiest of the Arab states really are not countries,they are basically large commercial enterprises where millions of foreigners go to work.

Hempy
31st Mar 2015, 09:25
Imho Israel is going to settle this one way or another. They don't seem to wear the 'cotton gloves' or political correctness of the western democracies, and I'm sure Netanyahu is just waiting for a good excuse to start issuing iodine tablets before turning the greater part of the middle east into glass. They don't need US approval or assistance in doing that.

ORAC
31st Mar 2015, 14:12
Actually on one of the other threads a while back ,there was a mind map type of thing depicting who's side who was on, and who was helping who. With these latest developments it needs to be updated.

http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/ucv3g6RVrSLPIFGAzOx_3Q--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTQzMTtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz01MDA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ucomics.com/tt150331.gif

Lonewolf_50
31st Mar 2015, 16:28
Imho Israel is going to settle this one way or another. They don't seem to wear the 'cotton gloves' or political correctness of the western democracies, and I'm sure Netanyahu is just waiting for a good excuse to start issuing iodine tablets before turning the greater part of the middle east into glass. They don't need US approval or assistance in doing that. Are you writing a script for a B grade movie, or trying to depict events in the real world?

While I agree the Israelis act often without so much as a "by your leave" (they are a sovereign nation after all) your assertion that they are eager to enact their own Gotterdammerung, to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of nuclear war, is at best a comic book trope and at worst a fantasy being believed as a reality.

But here's a core question on your premise:
Imho Israel is going to settle this one way or another.

Just what is it that you think the Israelis desire or intend to settle?

Their core political motivation since inception is to exist, and to keep existing, as the no-kidding Jewish homeland. They have shown the ability to work with other local governments now and again, even though they don't always get along well with others. There are a great many ways for them to exist in that fashion without trying to destroy the surrounding area.

It's a tough neighborhood, sure. But Yemen is a far reach from being the most pressing area of Israeli interest. It is my suspicion, possibly in error, that the Israelis aren't displeased to see some of their more difficult rivals/threats fighting one another, which keeps Israel out of the gun sites for a while. The harder question is:
Who are they slipping assistance to, on the sly, if anyone as this multi party fight progresses?

Hempy
31st Mar 2015, 17:04
Netanyahu has been calling on 'outside help' (i.e legitimisation) for nearly 20 years. His speech to the US congress in 1996, his speech to the US congress in 2015. They are on youtube.

You really think that when one side gains ascendancy in the middle east, be it a Shia led Iran or a Sunni lead Saudi Arabia, or some other godforsaken conglomerate, that he or Israel is going to sit back and say 'Shalom, welcome to our border sworn enemy'? After the Muslims are finished killing themselves 'occupied Palestine' is next. If you can't see that you are blind.

Why is he so keen on destroying Irans posible nuclear capability? It's not because he's worried about Iran starting it, it's because he's worried about retaliation.

Of course, you are right, they might just sit around holding hands singing Kumbaya. But I doubt it..

smujsmith
31st Mar 2015, 17:12
Perhaps to lighten the mood gentlemen, this post from a commenter in a British national paper today might make some chuckle ;

An American Indian, a cowboy, and a Muslim were riding on a train across America together. There was an uncomfortable silence, so the Indian spoke. Once we were many, but now we are few. The Muslim sneered, once we were few here, but now we are many. The cowboy lit up a cigarette, tilted his hat and said, "that's because we haven't played cowboys and Muslims yet, but it's a’ coming.

The sooner the better.

Smudge :ok:

Hangarshuffle
31st Mar 2015, 18:28
Arses firmly kicked out of Iraq (yes eventually) and also Afghanistan (er, yes eventually)? War didn't end entirely end or go the way the cowboys envisaged? And at such destructive massive cost in all lives let alone material.....
And look at the state of the British Armed forces 14 years later, fantastic aren't they?


I'm sorry smudge I've had a drink and I find nothing funny about it all. Seems the region is set in perpetual warfare and downfall and I truly wish the world had the wit to come to its senses.

Lonewolf_50
31st Mar 2015, 18:39
Hempy:
You really think that when one side gains ascendancy in the middle east, be it a Shia led Iran or a Sunni lead Saudi Arabia, or some other godforsaken conglomerate, that he or Israel is going to sit back and say 'Shalom, welcome to our border sworn enemy'?
They already share borders with sworn enemies, and have since about 1948. As I said, it's a rough neighborhood.
After the Muslims are finished killing themselves 'occupied Palestine' is next.
They've tried it before, and failed. After they have bled one another a good bit, what makes you think they'll succeed if they try again?
If you can't see that you are blind.
I see quite clearly, thanks, and in more shades of gray than some others.
Why is he so keen on destroying Iran's posible nuclear capability? It's not because he's worried about Iran starting it, it's because he's worried about retaliation. Retaliation from what, Israel starting it? I don't think Israel is going to start it, with "it" being a nuclear exchange, as that leads to Gotterdämerung for them in both a kinetic sense and a political sense. If you think European and other nations have strong anti-Israeli sentiments now, consider the backlash/blowback if the Israelis send out nukes. Nukes change the nature of the ball game.
Of course, you are right, they might just sit around holding hands singing Kumbaya. I never suggested that, so those are your words not mine. What I have pointed out is that they have figured out a variety of ways to deal with and try to engage their neighbors who hate them, with varying degrees of success and failure.

This is in part due to what you alluded to first, help from third parties. The Camp David agreements, and the ensuing bribe from the US treasury to keep Israel and Egypt from going to war again, were third party assistance to peace in that region. If he keeps asking for that, it makes a sort of sense since that avenue more or less worked.

The odds of third party assistance if the Israelis start something with nukes? Gone fishing, most likely for good.

So back to the actual topic of this thread, which is the proxy war fought in Yemen by regional rivals. It strikes me as in the Israeli interest to keep a close eye on it, and to let (or help) their enemies bleed each other white.

Hangarshuffle: if one uses the RoE that the cowboys (specifically the Texas Rangers) used vis a vis the Indians (suggest you read the Fehrenbach (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/595618.Comanches)book on the Comanche) you might see a different result. It was originally published with the subtitle "the destruction of a people" and later re-released as "the history of a people."

PS: it wasn't cowboys who went to Afghanistan, nor to Iraq.

Brian W May
31st Mar 2015, 20:24
Hangarshuffle . . . you still with us?

I trust the Samaritans couldn't help then . . . oh dear, perhaps someone will sympathise with you.

Thanks Smuj, I had a bloody good laugh . . . but then I'm shallow, ignorant and flippant (I'm sure I've got reports that say that somewhere).

jindabyne
1st Apr 2015, 10:18
I had a titter too :ok:

jolihokistix
3rd Apr 2015, 03:24
Getting back to the confusion:
Al-Qaida in Yemen captures a southern city, frees 300 inmates ? Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion (http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/al-qaida-in-yemen-captures-a-southern-city-frees-300-inmates)

Lyneham Lad
3rd Apr 2015, 10:33
A Reuters report (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/04/03/uk-yemen-security-china-idUKKBN0MU0HM20150403) (my bold)

A Chinese naval frigate has evacuated 225 foreign citizens from strife-torn Yemen, its foreign ministry said, marking the first time that China's military has helped other countries evacuate their people during an international crisis.

Ten different nationalities were among the evacuees picked up on Thursday afternoon from Aden, Yemen's second city, and transported to Djibouti, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement on its website late Thursday.

The ministry said foreign governments - Pakistan, Ethiopia, Singapore, Italy, Germany, Poland, Ireland, Britain, Canada and Yemen - had requested China's help. A spokeswoman said it was the first time China had carried out a specific evacuation of foreign nationals from a danger zone.

A diplomatic source familiar with the operation said it was "very risky" and that fighting had come close to the Chinese warship.

"The Chinese ship was in the right place at the right time," the source said.

Violence has been spreading across Yemen since last year, when Iran-backed Shi'ite Houthi fighters seized the capital, Sanaa, and effectively removed President Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi. A Saudi-led coalition has hit the rebels with air strikes over the past week.

A state television report on Friday showed evacuees, who were mostly Pakistani, arriving in Djibouti.

"We are really thankful to the Chinese government, who really helped us, and took us out (with) the school children," one woman told China Central Television.

The broadcaster showed footage young children stepping off a Chinese warship waving Chinese flags, and in one case, kissing a seaman on the cheek.

The evacuation of foreigners bolsters China's image at home and abroad, according to Shen Dingli, an international relations professor at Fudan University in Shanghai.

"We wouldn't look very good if we have the capacity to help others but no heart to do it," Shen said.

"Now we look really good," he added.

China had earlier evacuated 571 of its own nationals, along with eight foreigners who worked for Chinese companies.

Once-reclusive China has become increasingly active in disaster relief and humanitarian aid abroad as its global economic interests widen.

"China has been keen to learn from the experience of other countries on how to evacuate people, especially after Libya," said one senior Western diplomat in Beijing. "It's good to see China taking more of an interest in this."

A low-key diplomatic player in the Middle East despite its reliance on oil from the region, China has voiced concern at the surge in violence in Yemen and called for a political solution.

LT Selfridge
3rd Apr 2015, 11:27
Thank the Baha'ian god for the Chinese cavalry.

ORAC
3rd Apr 2015, 12:50
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/ErWWKkFGh04L8TTbMKlVbQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTE4MTtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02MDA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ucomics.com/prc150310.gif

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/wzJcYphesbYMFGHkZ_eYHw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTE4MjtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02MDA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ucomics.com/prc150312.gif

Hangarshuffle
6th Apr 2015, 18:24
Still here, but occasionally these days (work is busy but well paid).
Nope, haven't read any of the witty but cold replies I'm sure that are up above.
I just get on here to post the odd newspaper story-linky
Yemen conflict: 'This war has killed everything that was beautiful' | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/06/yemen-conflict-war-houthi-sanaa)


Watching the BBC world service just now about the on-going bombing of the Yemen, and it clarifies the above.
And its still terrible-absolutely innocent people, frequently women and young children dead. 12 days of this have resulted in about 500 dead, or 549 according to the UN WHO. I mean if you think that's okay, that's your bag.
No sign of the bombing ending either. It isn't working, whatever its aim actually is.
So take your money, and your consciences if that's your career and your choice, but God is watching.


I never thought that British people would end up helping and supporting this sort of killing, for money (because that's what they are-paid and bought men), but I concede its probably always gone on, if you pinch your nose for a bit and read the history books.
Toodle pip.

Hangarshuffle
6th Apr 2015, 19:05
http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_166953/bae-systems-adds-34bn-riyals-to-the-saudi-economy?_afrLoop=2202071335106000&_afrWindowMode=0&_afrWindowId=mpm866jef_155#!%40%40%3F_afrWindowId%3Dmpm866je f_155%26_afrLoop%3D2202071335106000%26_afrWindowMode%3D0%26_ adf.ctrl-state%3Dmpm866jef_374
I couldn't let it lie...
Pretty long link that above, in fact it probably wont work but I guess you can follow it if you are independently minded to. Its a BAE blurb from a year ago about how much money they have made for Saudi society between 2008 and 2012.
There is a lot about careers with BAe Saudi- about 38% of the current workforce must be ex-pat then, of one type or another. The Saudi-ization programme (training people to kill and destroy civilian neighbours) has gone well.
So, er yea. My current disdain for the ex-pats who signed up for this, who have helped create this little war spouting monster, it er.. remains as it was.
Good night.

bill2b
6th Apr 2015, 20:49
I'm with you Hangar Shuffle its a shame that some are to blind to see what terrorism America and our own clowns in charge are guilty of.

Training Risky
6th Apr 2015, 23:11
So take your money, and your consciences if that's your career and your choice, but God is watching.



Oh thank you oh wise one for your divine judgment on us lesser mortals.

(Pssst...you know that there is no God and 'He' is just a concept created to get people to follow the will of others?)

I take it you will stop using all Saudi oil products immediately to register your disgust? No car, no diesel buses, no plastics!

Let us know how your boycott goes...