Royal air force 63 and 19 squadron leaders from 1980 until 1994

[chiv hawk]

Hello my name is john karslake i live in Braunton in North Devon i travel the mostly in the uk during the year as a spotter of military avation i log and photograph aircraft from various countries whilst they visit the uk. I am currently doing a small private project on the bae hawk during the years 1980 to 1994 whilst the hawk was being operated out of Raf chivenor this project includes both photographic and written. Any photographs that you might have during this period of years would be most helpful and i would ask your permision to use them before they went on display. When project is complete it will be loaned out to the local museum for public display in my home town of Braunton in North Devon to mark 20 years since the hawk aircraft left Raf chivenor. Some of the information i have already researched myself regarding some written and photographic information on the history of 151 and 92 squadrons of the Raf during there time as hawk squadrons at Raf chivenor. What i would like to next is to continue this project and i am looking for any names of the squadron leaders from 63 and 19 squadrons of the Raf during there time in command of these squadrons at Raf chivenor from August 1980 when chivenor started to recieve the hawk jet and the eventual departure of the hawk jet from Raf chivenor in 1995. :)

[gr4techie]

Squadron Leader is a rank.

I think you mean the posts of Officer Commanding 19 and 63 Sqn. Which doesn't have to be a Sqn Ldr, it can be a Wing Commander. In fact I cant think of any flying sqn now where the Officer Commanding isn't a Wing Commander?

[Exascot]

chiv hawk, I hope that your project doesn't require any written input :ugh:

gr4, essential correct on Sqn Cdrs but don't forget the UASs

[langleybaston]

P L E A S E can we have R A F?

Come to that, I thought Chivenor deserved a capital C.

Surely nobody doing serious research is in that much of a hurry?

[Exascot]

LB, he has such low personal esteem, or cr@p written skills, that he doesn't even use capital letters for his own name or the 'perpendicular pronoun', as Sir Humphrey would say. What chance do we stand for any respect for the Royal Air Force (RAF)? Also great research so far on Royal Air Force ranks and posts :ok:

Exascot,
Sqn Ldr RAF (Ret'd)

Last post; Flt Cdr - that will confuse him.

[KPax]

'Can't think of any Flying Squadron where the CO isn't a Wg Cdr' 60 and 84 are two that spring to mind.

[langleybaston]

Exascot: my late father was very proud of his service in WW II, i/c a barrage balloon as an LAC RAFVR from the defence of Coventry in the Blitz to the Suez Canal to shipboard for the D Day Landings.

NEVER EVER let me hear you say raf!

Yes dad.

Never!

[Rossian]

.....normally I'm a paid up member of the grammar police. Aren't you being just a leetle bitty harsh on the guy?

anyhoo, nobody has come up with any names - may I chip in with Buggs Bendell who handed over to Tim Gawain (sp?) during the 19 Sqn APC at St Mawgan in 1979-ish??

The Ancient Mariner

[Courtney Mil]

Chiv hawk, sorry for the brutal reception here. Nothing personal, it's normal. There is a lot of knowledge for you in the heads of the members here. It will come.

To the rest of you, cut the guy some slack and stop behaving like arseholes. (Sorry, not ALL, but you know who you are.)

There was a thread some months ago where we managed to piece together most, if not all, of the Sqn Cdrs. Can anyone recall it? That may help.

I'll search for some links and photos.

[NutLoose]

Seconded, I couldn't believe the replies he got... :=

One hopes someone can help you with some answers

[Courtney Mil]

Could you be more specific? Maybe a link? I recall Chiv-related threads before, but not a specific one by CH.

[Exascot]

CM & NL with the greatest of respect gentleman yes, I am guilty, but whatever happened to research before 'foot in the mouth' insulting the Royal Air Force?

CM you are correct you will see that he has started at least two other threads in the past about this.

When researching for academic papers or presentations one gets nomenclature in order before approaching proffesionals on a subject. Rule one. Then we at least have the roots of a reasonable research project.

OK Chiv Hawk provide us with references and cross references to all your research so far and I will then believe that you are serious.

[Background Noise]

Squadron Leader is a rank.

I think you mean the posts of Officer Commanding 19 and 63 Sqn. Which doesn't have to be a Sqn Ldr, it can be a Wing Commander. In fact I cant think of any flying sqn now where the Officer Commanding isn't a Wing Commander?

In the timescale he is asking about, the Sqn bosses were Sqn Ldrs.

Courtney - it's here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/539902-squadron-commanders-raf-chivenor.html

[Courtney Mil]

Exascot, forgive me. I didn't think any intentional insult had been issued. Maybe nothing more than not understanding our sensibilities. But there is obviously some history here that have either not seen, forgotten or been stupidly unaware of.

BN, thanks for the link. I'll have a look and it may help the OP.

I'm clearly missing something here, I think.

[sharpend]

As one of the Chivenor Squadron Commanders during this period I can perhaps forgive an illiterate youngster who is possible as keen as mustard :ok:

[ex-fast-jets]

I have taken the liberty of slightly amending the original input, perhaps, to satisfy the spelling/grammar police. I hope that I have not changed the intent of the OP, but I also hope that you will get the input that you are seeking.

Although my time at Chivenor preceded the timescale that is of interest to you, I absolutely loved my time there, and I only regret that the Royal Air Force saw fit to leave.

Any record of the RAF presence at what was, probably, the best RAF station of its time, deserves a fair wind, in my opinion.

Hello.

My name is John Karslake. I live in Braunton, North Devon. I travel mostly in the UK during the year as a spotter of military aviation. I log and photograph aircraft from various countries when they visit the UK. I am currently doing a small private project on the BAe Hawk during the years 1980 to 1994 when the Hawk was being operated at RAF Chivenor. This project includes both photographic and written inputs. Any photographs that you might have covering this period would be most helpful and, if you can send me any information or photographs, then I would ask your permission to use them before they went on display. When the project is complete, it will be loaned to the local museum for public display in my home town of Braunton, North Devon, to mark 20 years since the Hawk left RAF Chivenor. Some of the information I already have includes some written and photographic information on the history of 151 Sqn and 92 Sqn during their time as Hawk squadrons at RAF Chivenor. What I would like to do next in continuing this project is to list the names of the squadron commanders from 63 Sqn and 19 Sqn during their time in command at RAF Chivenor from August 1980, when Chivenor started to receive the Hawk, and the eventual departure of the Hawk from RAF Chivenor in 1995.

Any help that you can give me would be much appreciated.

[Al R]

Chiv hawk,

Good luck with your project. It's nice to see a member of the public spending so much of their own time recognising the RAF in one's community.

[thing]

approaching proffesionals

Er........

[ex-fast-jets]

As one of the Chivenor Squadron Commanders during this period I can perhaps forgive an illiterate youngster who is possible as keen as mustard

:= You just might wish to edit your comment before declaring illiteracy in others!! :=

[Bigbux]

ISS Mixed Martial Arts! superb!, the sport of kings.

chiv - good on you buddy. Be merciless with this lot and tap them up for all the information they have. Between them they could tell you everything that ever happened in the RAF - some of them were there at the inception.:)

[bike2lv]

I cannot comment on RAF Chivenor as I did not have the pleasure of serving there.
However, pointing out the importance of grammar and correct spelling does have some value, especially to the young. If nothing else, it demonstrates that such things do matter to some people, potential employers for example.
I say this, having had a number of years teaching technical subjects.
Eg: graduating students completing questionnaire about the 2 year technical program they have finished. One (of the better ones) shouts out to his fellow students " how do you spell 'red'? Me: (not supposed to be present, but trying to expedite said survey so they don't waste valuable class time) " What do you mean Trevor, what are you trying to say?" Student replies " I want to say 'they (College) should get 'red' of the English course".
Sums things up nicely for me. :D
BTW I always say I was in the 'are ay eff", as opposed to the 'rafff'. I assume that is the preferred pronunciation.

[sharpend]

Very good point Bomber ... possibly:D

ps , in my time at Chivenor (1980 - 83), the Squadrons were 63 & 151(F) 19 did not exist .

[Courtney Mil]

Nice points about "youngsters" and grammar, but you might check the OP's posted age.

[mikip]

If the OP is really 48 that was just about when they stopped teaching grammar and spelling because it destroyed the little darlings 'creativity', so now we have a generation of people who have no idea what grammar is let alone what the rules are and as for spelling it's just a free for all, I suppose we should thankful that he is not using 'text speak'

[si.]

I'm a little younger than the OP, yet we were still taught proper grammar and spelling whilst at school. Although that's not to say I'd claim my grammar was perfect, and I do make mistakes. (Before anyone finds one in this post.)

I do however wonder how English is taught in the modern education system, as I frequently feel compelled to correct my Daughters. It could be argued correct English is almost their second language, yet they all achieved good GCSE grades in both language and literature.

[thing]

I think that English is taught perfectly well in the modern education system. However there are so many external influences at work on today's youngsters that the learning of good English is seriously influenced by what they see on TV and of course parents of the txt spk generation.

My children are in their thirties. Both speak and write with accuracy; so do my grandchildren, albeit within the ability of their age group.

[si.]

Whilst I can't comment on the standards regarding education, I whole heartedly agree concerning other influences. The volume of American television programmes broadcast on a certain satellite Company's system, often leads to a 'discussion' about mispronunciation of English words... :ugh:

Apologies for the thread drift.

[O-P]

Personally, I can't remember doing any staff work, or for that matter worrying about the next comma, when I chased down Jags at 250' and 600kts.


For that matter, I didn't give a crap about it once I'd landed either. Those that got really upset about it, in my opinion, weren't the best boys in the real game.


English is blessed by its flexible rules and willingness to change. Just look at French if you wish to be pedantic.


chiv hawk got is point across. I don't care for those that snipe from their high horse, I'm sure I could make them look like utter fools in a discipline other than English.


O-P

[Null Orifice]

Squadron leader J A Hall was OC No 151 Squadron in July 1984.

[4ROCK]

When I was on 63 Sqn in the early 80's we had Rapier not Hawks

[Dominator2]

Sharpend,

Correction,

19(F) Sqn did exist in 1980-83 as a Front Line Sqn operating Phantom FGR2's in RAFG!

[Courtney Mil]

No closer to helping the OP with his question here, although the stear towards previous threads should help.

One big thread drift I cannot resist.

When I was on 63 Sqn in the early 80's we had Rapier not Hawks

QCS. Who introduced Continuity Drill to QCS?

[Al R]

In 1920's.. at Uxbridge (I assume) - RAF apprentices, Guards Division, L of A maybe?

I was once told I was too ugly for QCS, fact. And too short. I would sue now.

[Courtney Mil]

Too ugly for QCS? Al R, take them to court. :ok:

[Al R]

They had a point mind. :E

At the time, I remember walking in Dodge, at Aki, and my FS walking up behind me and putting his dog lead in my rather trendy 1985 earring before nearly pulling my lobe off. "You want to look like a dog, Rush, he hissed, ".. and I'll treat you like a dog". The years dull the pain and the memory, I think he may have spiced the vernacular a little. It was him who gave me my aesthetic critique too.

Great bloke though, seriously. :ok:

[Courtney Mil]

Love that story, Al. Still have the earring?

Anyway, I think continuity drill for QCS was around 1960. Anyone help with that?

[BEagle]

Al R wrote: I was once told I was too ugly for QCS, fact. And too short. I would sue now.

During his time on 14GE at the Towers, the late Don Turbitt was once told by his rather wet IOT Flt Cdr that he had 'unofficer-like bone structure'...:rolleyes:

When we had the entry photo taken at graduation, Don was positioned by the photographer at some point amongst the assembled throng - only for 'someone' to call out "Not him - he's got unofficer-like bone structure!", much to the chagrin of the to$$er who'd made the original accusation - and was sitting with the rest of the Flt Cdrs in the photo....:E

Re QCS continuity drill, for one moment I thought you meant that rifle-twirling thing the Spams seem to love:

?v=FOzub_ghAbM

[Tankertrashnav]

When I was on 63 Sqn in the early 80's we had Rapier not Hawks

And in the 60s when I was in they had these:

Bofors 40/70 gun restored to its former glory « Express & Star (http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2010/11/01/bofors-4070-gun-restored-to-its-former-glory/)

Similarly when I was on 37 Sqn we had Land Rovers, not Shackletons (as Shack37 already knows).

[Al R]

Courtney, long lost! I would restart but my kids would probably disown me.

Now there's a plan.

Beagle, I once had a particularly vindictive and useless Flt Cdr who said of me and my deportment (in one of my 6000); "Cpl Rush, when visiting the unit in his time off, can sometimes dress unsuitably, much like a biker might".

My successful redress pointed out that my transport at the time was a Honda VFR750 FT.

[Haraka]

During his time on 14GE at the Towers, the late Don Turbitt was once told by his rather wet IOT Flt Cdr that he had 'unofficer-like bone structure'...

Then there was the 99 Cadet Entry Inter-Squadron Ugly competition, where "A" Squadron's entry was disqualified on the grounds of his being a professional.

[sharpend]

Dominator2. I stand very much corrected. Total lack of research. What I meant to say was that 19 (F) was not a Hawk Sqn at Chivenor. Personally, I as an ex Sqn Cdr, am obviously disappointed of the demise of 151(F) Sqn but given it's Scottish history maybe it will rise again when Scotland get its independence !

[threeputt]

I claim my £5; I went through OCTU in '67 with the late WO Danny Gourd (latterly Flt Lt) and it was 'im wot did it!


3P:ok:

[thing]

I once had a particularly vindictive and useless Flt Cdr who said of me and my deportment (in one of my 6000); "Cpl Rush, when visiting the unit in his time off, can sometimes dress unsuitably, much like a biker might".


Had a mean little swine as a JENGO once too. Not known for my patience he once said to me at a beer call

'You don't suffer fools gladly do you Corporal.'

To which I replied with my nicest smile

'Well obviously I do sir.'

The mouth worked up and down a couple of times as he thought of a pithy retort but he decided that I hadn't said anything and wandered off to annoy someone else...my SENGO on the other hand was having a beer down the nose moment... :).

[Al R]

Mr Gourd would have looked smart in a sandbag.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/381385-wearing-uniform-public-7.html#post5078928