Airfield Recognition

[CoffmanStarter]

I've just been given a small collection of Chipmunk pics from the late 60's/early 70's, most of which are on AEF Summer Camp duty. The majority I've been able to identify both airframe, airfield and approximate date ... but I'm a bit stumped with this one ;)

I think the airframe is WP984 (the '4' comes from the usual tail fin last numeric 'convention'). If the serial is correct, she is still on the civil register as G-BWTO.

I'm guessing late 60's/early70's given the Dayglo/Matt Grey livery along with the Yellow Life Preserver.

Anyone like to have a stab at the airfield ? I'm assuming it's a main UK Base as the Chipmunk is Uhf equipped (note upper and lower blade aerials) as 'busy' bases didn't (understandably) like mixed Uhf/Vhf circuit traffic.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/img980%20Medium%20v2_zpsjddndfeo.jpg

Image Credit : Mr D Keep

Any help greatly appreciated :ok:

Coff.

[DGAC]

Could it be Ouston?

[Heathrow Harry]

Pretty flat around Ouston - I think soemwhere in Yorkshire with the N York Moors behind

Topcliffe? Dishforth??

I think Topcliffe looks about right

[1.3VStall]

HH, it's definitely not Dishforth. (I've never been to Topcliffe).

[rockridge]

Could it be chivenor?..saunton sands to left of picture, to the right lobb hill leading to saunton. Also the white house to the right looks like wrafton railway station?..i seem to remember the huts in the 70's leading up to where 22sqn is now.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I think Rockridge has it exactly. The line of houses just to the right of the Railway house are on Wrafton Road

[CoffmanStarter]

Many thanks all :D

Particular 'thanks' to Rockridge and Fox3 ... I've just orientated a few on-line maps ... all the features you mention confirm the fix :ok:

Chalk up another PPRuNe PI success !

[Heathrow Harry]

amzing really - one close up picture from 50 years ago and PPrune has it in 2 hours.................... :ok::ok:

[rockridge]

Glad to be of help, looking at the picture reminded me of fond memories walking like a hunchback with that chute on out to chipmunks at exeter.:)

[Rosevidney1]

I'm alarmed at the angle of slope on the runway!

[Hangarshuffle]

What's the guy got on his left foot? White high heels? glam rock type boot? WTF RAF?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

White plimsoll with dark sole, black sock, white leg.

One had to wear RAF uniform, but with white plimsolls/tennis shoes as the standard shoe or boot tread carried too much muck into the cockpit.

[CoffmanStarter]

Hanger old chap ... The PAX is an Air Cadet. They were briefed/required to wear back then plimsolls as opposed to heavy pongo style parade boots ... Simples :)

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks Fox3 ... You clearly type faster than me. ;)

Mind you the 'Strapper-Inner' on the wing should have had his sleeves rolled down as a minimum given 'Flash Fire' risks.




.

[Danny42C]

Ref the plimsolls, I wore baseball boots on ops in Burma. Much better touch on rudders/brakes, and ideal for the jungle if you'd had to dismount and walk back.

D.

[CISTRS]

I'm alarmed at the angle of slope on the runway! Is this the Clarkson thread? :)

[Hangarshuffle]

Ahhhhh I see. Did cadets ever have to parachute out often then? Its a good photo, seems really evocative of a time now long gone.
Any more guess-the-location photos?

[Heathrow Harry]

there is a long running thread in the History & Nostalgia Forum - both mil & civil

Don't start another one here!!

[tmmorris]

My cadets still generally wear trainers for both ankle flex and FOD reasons.

[Dora-9]

Hi Coff - another wonderful Chipmunk photo!

I agree with your time period, although if this aircraft was also VHF-equipped the antennae would be out of frame on the tail cone. Note the third fuselage Day-Glo stripe; the norm was only the upper two.

As far as I can ascertain, the only unit to have used red (Day-Glo?) fin numbers was 1 AEF - in some cases the number corresponded to the serial, e.g WK544/4, but in a lot of cases it didn't, making the WP884 identification rather tenuous.

As an Antipodean with maybe 20 UK visits under his belt, me attempting an airfield identification is rather fraught. I have 1 AEF based at Biggin Hill, White Waltham, West Malling and Manston. Hopefully this will help.

Any chance of seeing the other Chipmunk photos - please?

Cheers,
D9

[huntaluvva]

An alternative identity would be WP980, which was at Chivenor on 229 OCU strength in 1970.

If you look closely through the Chipmunk's canopy, you can make out the canvas hangar used by the ATC gliding school. They moved in from Exeter in 1966 if memory serves me right.

[CoffmanStarter]

Hi Dora-9 ... good to hear from you again :ok:

I'm pretty certain that no RAF Chipmunks were fitted with both Vhf and Uhf radios (they were either Vhf or Uhf equipped) ... with respect to Mil Vhf aerial installation, this was under the starboard wing. See the yellow quarter wave inverted ground plane rod here on WK518. I've seen some Civilian (ex Mill) Chipmunks with Vhf aerials located as you describe, but such installations are non-mil-standard. In fact ... WK518 was one of the first RAF Chipmunks to be fitted with a Bendix 360/380 Channel Vhf radio which replaced the older 'Steam Driven' 10 Channel XTL controlled 1988 sets.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/CAe4r82WwAAWM2-.jpg-large_zps1udkrftx.jpg

Image Credit : RAF BBMF

I'm also certain that the Chivenor Chipmunk pic wasn't a 1 AEF aircraft as they were exclusively Vhf equipped from Biggin Hill, White Waltham, West Malling days through to their close at Manston in the mid 90's. As an aside WK518 was on the 1 AEF fleet between 1973 and 1983.

I'll post a few of the other pics I mentioned over the weekend :ok:

Hi Huntaluvva ...

I think you may have something there ... many thanks :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

[ACW418]

Coff,

I thought the Chipmunks were fitted with PTR175's in the end i.e. VHF and UHF. Don't know anything about their aerials though. Mod H337 in April 1980 although this was for PTR 1751 which may not have been VHF/UHF.

ACW

[CoffmanStarter]

Hi ACW418 ...

Many thanks. I'll dig further over the weekend ... I believe the 1751 may have been Uhf only ... But I'm always willing to stand corrected :ok:

[Dora-9]

Coff:

I'm pretty certain that no RAF Chipmunks were fitted with both Vhf and Uhf radios (they were either Vhf or Uhf equipped) ... with respect to Mil Vhf aerial installation, this was under the starboard wing.Unthinkable I know, but I suspect that I was (generally) wrong and that therefore you were correct about this. I've just trawled through my RAF Chipmunk photos, normally a lovely thing to do but this time rather marred by that sinking feeling that I'd erred - big time! It seems that, with very very few exceptions (I only found three), RAF Chipmunks had either a UHF radio (the two fuselage "blade" antennae) or a VHF radio ("whip" antenna under the RH wing).

The first exception to the rule seems to have been Birmingham UAS' WG307 which carried both aerial styles as noted above, which is not to say that both radios were actually fitted. Further to my earlier comment about the layout of WG98?'s Day-Glo fuselage stripes, note the two variations apparent here (the cowling stripes on WP790 have rounded leading edges too):

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/Blithering/WG307-Birmingham-UAS-Shawbu_zpsw8rp4ltl.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/Blithering/media/WG307-Birmingham-UAS-Shawbu_zpsw8rp4ltl.jpg.html)

Also, I had it firmly fixed in my brain that the VHF antenna was always the swept white "rod" style fitted to the upper tail cone. I'm not sure where this notion came from. Again looking at the evidence provided only two examples, if nothing else validating my favorite adage that "assumption is the mother of all cock-ups".

WG480, possibly with 4 AEF, which would date this in the late 1980's (note both UHF and VHF antennae carried here):

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/Blithering/WG480-poss-4-AEF_zpskgjswskz.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/Blithering/media/WG480-poss-4-AEF_zpskgjswskz.jpg.html)

WD310, I don't know when & where, but since this one was noted at EFTS wearing a "hydbrid" scheme (a combination of the first and second R/W/LG schemes) in August 1987 it's apparently after that (only a VHF radio here?):

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/Blithering/WD310_zpsmotwxvnx.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/Blithering/media/WD310_zpsmotwxvnx.jpg.html)

Cheers,
D9

[Dora-9]

ACW:

H.337 dated 18.4.1980 is entitled: Radio: "To Introduce Plessey PTR 1751 ARI 23301/26 UHF in Lieu of PTR 170 ARI 18197/1 UHF", so I don't think this covers fitting a VHF radio.

I have a complete modification list (available to download on the DHSL website), and I can't find anything about fitting a VHF to RAF Chipmunks after 1965 (but it obviously happened; look at the above photos)!

Any ideas, Coff?

[kenparry]

WRT Chipmunk radios:

I never saw a Chipmunk with a PTR175. I still have my Chipmunk Pilot's Notes, amended up to 1994, which lists in a diagram the following fits:

RAF: choice of PTR170 UHF; PTR1751PP (also UHF); or a Marconi AD120 720-channel VHF.
Army: PTR1751BB, either alone or "with standby UHF".

All the above had their control boxes mounted on top of the coaming, unlike the original 10-channel VHF which had the control mounted near the starter pull-ring.

Also, in the text, additional info:
1. RAF aircraft could have a 720-chan VHF plus the PTR1751; .
2. RN aircraft had a Bendix RT221 380-chan VHF plus either a PTR170 or the Marconi AD120 720-chan VHF;
3. The Army standby UHF set is not identified.


For RAF aircraft, a Dittel ATR720B 720-chan VHF is also mentioned, which used a whip aerial on the tailcone (see WG480 & WD310 in post #25 above). It's unclear from the Pilot's Notes whether it could be fitted in conjunction with a PTR1751, though the photo of WG480 perhaps shows it could.

What a lot of options for a simple aircraft!

[ACW418]

Coff,

My interest was from being an Air Cadet squadron commander and as a consequence getting an occasional ride at the same time as being a manager in Plessey making the PTR 175. I thought I remembered it being fitted to Chipmunks but clearly I was wrong!

Very sorry for the duff gen. Now have I had breakfast yet?

ACW

[Danny42C]

How about some airfields to recognise, chaps ?

D.

[ACW418]

Try this.

Mystery Airfield.jpg Photo by acw418 | Photobucket (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/acw418/media/Mystery%20Airfield.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0)

Credit: John Henshall

[wub]

This is Woodford

[KPax]

I am told the Chipmunk was based at Exeter based on the serial.

[Dora-9]

Kenparry:

It's unclear from the Pilot's Notes whether it could be fitted in conjunction with a PTR1751, though the photo of WG480 perhaps shows it could.Well, both sets of antennae at least! I'll chase up my contacts at DHSL and see if they know more, although this will take time...

Danny:

Sorry, but any talk of Chipmunks gets me going big time (and wandering OT).

[ACW418]

Wub,

I believe it might be.

ACW

[CoffmanStarter]

Good morning chaps ...

I've had a good old dig yesterday (before the Rugby) and think I can summarise a little better the Chipmunk Comms 'variables' we have been discussing ... Wibble Wibble !!!

I'll post a summary later today on the Thread below to keep things nice and tidy for the MOD's. I just need to close off a couple of bits first ;)

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/412255-raf-chipmunks-11.html

For those who'd like to do more 'Guess-the-Location' ... There is a Thread over on 'History & Nostalgia'.

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/459713-aerodrome-mk-iii-270.html

I'll also post later today the other pics I mentioned in my OP on this Thread given they relate to 1 AEF.

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/375999-raf-manston-history-no-1-aef-1967-1995-a-3.html

Best ...

Coff.