Anyone have a link to the infamous Cranwell F4 flypast?

[Four Types]

I have just taken the tour of CHOM at Cranwell and mentioned to my friends accompanying me the infamous F4 graduation flypast. They would love to see it and asked if there is a link to it anywhere on the web. I have Googled it and cannot find it. Anyone help me?

[Maxibon]

Aha, that deaf, dumb and blind kid...

[captainsmiffy]

Sorry, no link......but I was there! Awesome!!

[ShyTorque]

The video used to be shown at the Flying Supervisors' course. IIRC, it was held at Cranwell.

[radar101]

fourtypes,


Check your PMs

[Courtney Mil]

^^^Share with all^^^

[BEagle]

Having seen the video of the second F-4 appearing around Whittle Hall in wing-rock, descending and then selecting full A/B before bottoming out at 72 ft a.g.l., it looked like a very close call and nearly an horrific accident....

[Roadster280]

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGxUovo7CSI

Or lower?

[Navy_Adversary]

Lower , I believe.:ok:

[Al R]

Was the flight path the same?

[BEagle]

No.



.................

[Al R]

Thank you. I was just wondering.

[dagenham]

This needs to be on you tube!!!!

[Exascot]

Are we talking about the one where the jockey was a certain Flt Lt J...s? Up for promotion but it got kind of delayed?

[FarWest]

I was there. It was lower than the Lightning on YouTube and the F4s came in over the Orange.

FarWest

[Mal Drop]

If anyone has a decent copy they could PM me with I would be most grateful. I was the cadet standing in front of No. 2 flight with a pointed stick (and one of the few who kept his hat on).

[ShyTorque]

I liked the last part of the video, where the SNCO went around the parade square, picking up SD hats. :E

[BEagle]

Only the idiot flying at stupidly high AoA and full A/B will truly know how close he came to wiping out the parade, spectators, reviewing officer, College WO and half of College Hall......

:mad:

[FarWest]

Beagle is right. I was watching from Whittle Hall and thought he was going to hit College Hall.

Far West

[Al R]

I'd be mildly surprised if the CWO didn't survive.

[Herod]

I've tried the link, and all I get is the parade. There is obviously another picture behind it, but it won't display.

[General Disaster]

I was at the back of the parade square on no 98 IOT in support of the graduating Sqn No 97 IOT DEC 86. Apart from the fact that it nearly wiped the parade out it was awesome. A pair of F4 s first passed from East to West. One of the F4 s then turned left towards the airfield and turned through 270 deg and attacked the clock and graduates head on. He then turned left again turning through 270 deg and came from the West dirty and slow. FUll burner and climb away. Avtur smell delicious, hats on the floor, flag poles over and crinkly AVM on Dias. We all believe the Orange to be clean of crap....... Wrong. Gravel hit me in face. Much fun. On my parade NImrod at 500 ft

[H Peacock]

I was there too, also on 98iot so part of the support Sqn. We had just been given an 'inwards dress' or something similar, so being on the front row of the support Sqn I had to look to my left and take my spacing. Looking up I saw the 2 F4s approaching from the East with everything down (Flap, gear and hook) as they passed over the parade.

The parade commander was initially unable to give his 'eyes front' call for some time due to the incredible noise. I do recall a fellow A Sqn member (A--- A-----) quietly mouthing a comment about 'take that blunties'.

Once the 'eyes front' was eventually called, we were all greeted with the sight of the F4s rolling out of their left 270 pointing directly at us from the South. The final pass from West to East caused the mayhem.

Overall a truly spectacular sight!

[rarelyathome]

I too witnessed this (Flt Cdr on 98 IOT). Watching a jet pull up to clear the trees over the sports pitches between Whittle Hall and CHOM was a clear indicator of what was to come - caps, marker poles, blue blankets everywhere!

I seem to remember it added to the fun because the blue blankets were wet and the dye had run into a number of lady's dresses.

Tell em that today an ............

[gileraguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGxUovo7CSI


is there one that's NOT private?

[teeteringhead]

the SNCO went around the parade square, picking up SD hats .. and Mums' and WAGs' flowery hats too IIRC......

[Wasn't there, but have seen the film on a number of occasions!]

[Sandy Parts]

I like Al R's reply re the CWO. I can imagine him stood among smouldering wreckage shouting "Get that f******* mess OFF MY PARADE GROUND"! Saw the video on the Auth Course - scary to watch but that was from an 'older/wiser' point of view...

[Mal Drop]

Pics taken by one of my guests at the graduation parade (with crappy little point and shoot 35mm film camera).

Toom on early pass ...
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/Aircraft/Cranwell%20Grad%201_zpsqebebxmi.jpg

Some SD hats still scattered on parade ground (even after NCOs carried out initial pick-up) and Central Band being magnificently stoic about the whole thing ...
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/Aircraft/Cranwell%20Grad%202_zpsyiulsfix.jpg

Cunning attempt to draw attention away from fast pointy things ...
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/Aircraft/Cranwell%20Grad%203_zps5a7j9x2m.jpg

/Would seriously appreciate it if anyone could steer me towards a vid of the occasion.

[Wensleydale]

I was sitting in the back of the cunning diversion but sadly had to rely upon the description of the flight deck because we were not near any windows.

[Tiger G]

I'd be happy to donate an arm or leg, to see said vid :ok:

Come on............it's soooo about time it was for public consumption, what could possibly go wrong ?? :confused:

[Bladdered]

Wow, after all those years. I was another one of those 98IOT 'red sqn' Flt Cdrs doing the ushering and it was an incredible display. Will never forget it.

[Snakecharmer]

99 were returning from a LAT run at the time... which is where I remember it from... saw the whole thing from wherever it was we came back too... loved it... a refreshing change from all the blunt nonsense being peddled by the IOT-and-over-ambitious ground branch flt cdrs... subsequently served with the 'deaf, dumb and blind kid' in MPA... he didn't tell it in any kind of boasting fashion.. lovely chap... then he pointed out he was one of my Father's ex-studes... small world :-)

[Bigbux]

98 IOT too. It's a small world.

[cash47]

I was graduating. I can still remember the stink of fuel and the extraordinary reaction of the directing staff. It would be impossible to hide now.

[LowObservable]

Cunning attempt to draw attention away from fast pointy things ...

Hey, folks, you want to see a real disaster?

[SPIT]

WHAT is the sense in putting a video on a PUBLIC FORUM and then stating that THIS VIDEO IS PRIVATE . If you wanted it kept private then WHY THE HELL was it put on a forum like You Tube ???? :hmm::hmm:

[The Old Fat One]

^^ Youtube has a variety of "permissions" settings including private (as in you must be authorised by the owner to see it).

It is a hugely useful hosting platform for training videos and suchlike. Plus private and unlisted videos are not subject to the same copyright restrictions (for example with a musical soundtrack) as publicly listed videos.

Nice photo of the Nimrod AEW (Airborne Elephant, White). Just under 1bn tax payer's wonga down the swannee and pledge to review defence procurement, so that never happened again. Oh well...it was a nice thought.

[Stratofreighter]

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGxUovo7CSI

is there one that's NOT private?" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The link that you are mentioning only showed
a single Lightning flying past at Cranwell.
Certainly not as low as those Phantoms.

This Lightning-video was still accessible a few days ago.

[Eau de Boeing]

If you go onto a well known video sharing website (that may rhyme with Poolube).

Type in a number between 96 and 98 IOTC and flypast, you may find what you seek........


I imagine if it had been filmed on a GoPro it would have been even more scary!

:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Iot not iotc

[Rhino power]

Holy crap, that was low! :eek: (1:30 onwards for those who wish to fast forward...)

-RP

[Wensleydale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3yV7pL1p24

N3yV7pL1p24

[1771 DELETE]

I had the pleasure of flying many times with Tommy, after that incident while going through nav training at 6FTS. He always wanted to bounce his mates farm even though it was no where near my chosen route. After a few trips, i learnt to incorporate the farm into the first leg - he was happy and i got an easy time.

[taxydual]

Naughty.

OK, what happened to the 'guilty basta*d'. sorry, the accused pilot once he landed?

[Tiger G]

That was f'in fantastic, waited ages to see that :D

[tartare]

Using a very crude estimate;
Length of F4 fuse = 58 feet 3 inches.
Number of apparent fuselage lengths between underside of jet and ground (not taking into account viewing angle etc) seems to be approximately 3 to 4 Phantoms worth.
Therefore, altitude of number two at pull-up with burner on... between 175 and 233 feet?
Even two Phantom's worth is around 120 feet.
If so, still pretty low for such a big, loud jet...

[Fonsini]

Reminds me of the Hunter/Tower Bridge incident - if only there was a video of that.

[ihoharv]

anybody know what the Hunter pilot - Flt Lt Alan Pollock - went on to do post-RAF following his "medical discharge"? If he's still with us he'd be about 80 today.

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter_Tower_Bridge_incident

[Bigpants]

Most pilots who flew cold war era fast jets will have found themselves at some point in heavy buffet and wing rock. If you were sensible it occurred at a height from which you could recover or if lacking situational awareness you were at low level pulling too hard somewhere over Labrador or a remote bit of Germany and tent pegged.

Cranwell and Shoreham very similar events, one a lucky escape the other not.

[BEagle]

Agreed, Bigpants!

That link posted by Wensleydale isn't the version which was shown on the Flying Supervisors' course - which showed the jet rounding Whittle Hall in wing rock, descending with full AB and nearly buying the farm. It was calculated that he bottomed out at 72' agl before climbing away...:eek:

[John Nichol]

It was certainly a most interesting day to graduate. IIRC, it was the 3rd pass - the one Beagle describes above - which took most of the hats off & blew a couple of people (me included) out of line. Someone did say that one chap was blown off his feet but I didn't see that.

Our gallant Flight Sergeant had to invent a wonderful new dill move called "re-positioning the parade commander's (Mark someone?) hat on his head". He slammed it on so hard it covered said parade commander's eyes and I had to offer verbal commands of "left a bit, right a bit" to him as we slow-marched off so he could walk up the steps.

Everyone was in fits of laughter but I don't think Tommy was laughing when he landed. The Reviewing Officer (can't remember his name?) stormed off the parade ground and hit the phone - the story goes that the Conningsby Staish was waiting for Tommy when he landed and that - as they say - was the end of that! I got to Finningley a few months later and Tommy was OC LLTS. Jolly nice chap too - though the flypast was never-ever mentioned.

[ExAscoteer]

I think you;ll find he was OC LLADTS (JPs) at Finningley not LLTS.

[John Nichol]

I bow to your superior knowledge - it was 30 odd years ago & my memory is not nearly as good as.........

[Cows getting bigger]

I think it was recklessly irresponsible, we just didn't see it that way in the 80s.

How many pointless funerals back then? In my 23 years I stood looking at a coffin 18 times; 16 of those had been 'own goals' with the other 2 having been shot down.

[Tashengurt]

In this situation is the Nav as culpable as the pilot?

[BEagle]

Tashengurt wrote: In this situation is the Nav as culpable as the pilot?

No stick = no vote!

[ExAscoteer]

IIRC the Nav was the Auth for that sortie.

[RAFEngO74to09]

I missed seeing the action on the day as I was clearing in Clothing Stores prior to posting on promotion as a fast-jet SEngO - but I could recognize the noise inside the East Camp building as coming from a fast-jet flying way too low above inhabited buildings.

I subsequently saw the video showing the more dangerous situation that BEagle referred to whilst attending the Flying Supervisors Course at MOD Inspectorate of Flight Safety (RAF) a few months later. When I joined the staff of MOD IFS (RAF) 3 years later, it was still being shown as an example of irresponsible behavior. Selection of full burner certainly seemed to make the difference between hitting CHOM / the Parade Square or not and it was an extremely close thing - sinking lower than the example in the video posted here.

Having been a JEngO in RAFG - and an OC Armament on a number of Akrotiri APCs - I had seen a number of Phantom last flight on sqn / last flight of career beat-ups over HAS sites / dispersals - all were executed in an exciting and competent manner !

[tartare]

...and I take it the third pass video is nowhere to be found on the interweb?

[RAFEngO74to09]

I think it was part of a Board of / Unit Inquiry proceedings on a VHS tape - I don't know the origin of it. In almost 30 years I have never seen it outside of MOD IFS (RAF).

[AtomKraft]

Nice beat up in the '97 IOT' YouTube link, but didn't look very dangerous to me- although never flown a Phantom..:{

Add me to the list of folk keen to see the 'other' footage.

[SpazSinbad]

'ihoharv' inquired:
Hunter/Tower Bridge
anybody know what the Hunter pilot - Flt Lt Alan Pollock - went on to do post-RAF following his "medical discharge"? If he's still with us he'd be about 80 today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter_Tower_Bridge_incident
AFAIK 'Alan Pollock' went to RAAF Pearce to become a QFI with the RAAF subsequently.

IN HIS OWN WORDS: http://www.rafjever.org/4sqnper004.htm
&
http://www.rafjever.org/pictures-4/4sqnpic424.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/PollockHunterThruTowerBridgeUK1968forumED.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/PollockHunterThruTowerBridgeUK1968forumED.gif.html)

[cash47]

Immediately after the parade flustered directing staff were running around asking if any of our parents or visitors had taken video of the flypast.

[kenparry]

'ihoharv' inquired:
Quote:
Hunter/Tower Bridge
anybody know what the Hunter pilot - Flt Lt Alan Pollock - went on to do post-RAF following his "medical discharge"? If he's still with us he'd be about 80 today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker...ridge_incident
AFAIK 'Alan Pollock' went to RAAF Pearce to become a QFI with the RAAF subsequently.

Not so. Al never flew again. He ran an import/export business for many years. Yes, he's still alive, and living in southern England.

[MAINJAFAD]

anybody know what the Hunter pilot - Flt Lt Alan Pollock - went on to do post-RAF following his "medical discharge"? If he's still with us he'd be about 80 today.

He's still alive and kicking and on a Facebook group that I'm a member of.

[MACH2NUMBER]

I saw its when at IFS and it was used in FS lectures. Never seen it anywhere else. After 30 years, perhaps it might be released as many other official 'documents' are.

[Pontius Navigator]

I believe on of the navs was Darryl Rodgers (sic) OC Ops design RAF Leuchars who had 6 months loss of seniority.

[Treble one]

For the uninitiated amongst us, was the problem that he pulled up from low level (below the briefed altitude say) with full burner on and blew off some hats, or that he was too low on the flypast and had to use full burner to stop himself being spread all over the parade ground?

[Pontius Navigator]

T1, I'll stick my neck out and say both. Ultimately flying indiscipline. Many of us have been there, few have been seen on video. Today you might say few are not on video.

[Mogwi]

Bit of thread drift but I did manage to invert the beer tent at San Nicole with wing-tip jobbers in the '80s. Lusty also had to check the mainmast aerials after my last disembarkment. Fortunately no vid! There was, however HUD film of us at 5-15' on the attack run into Stanley on 1st May '82. Ahh, swing the lamp!

Off to polish me Tiger.

Mog

[Tashengurt]

There was, however HUD film of us at 5-15' on the attack run into Stanley on 1st May '82

I'm guessing you knocked a few hats off too?

[Just This Once...]

Probably one of the lesser quoted effects of HE, but I guess Mog will have knocked a few hats off.

[Bladdered]

Cash47 says that immediately after, flustered DS were rushing around asking for photo/video footage:


1. No we were not (rushing around or flustered).
2. Heads down - didn't see nothing my lud...............:mad:

[Shaft109]

Hello Mogwi - could you elaborate about the HUD height and how it was calibrated to the aircraft - i.e. was it from the bottom of the gun packs and only when S and L? (RadAlt)
or was it Barometric but imprecise?

The main reason I ask is obviously lower the better in that situation but curious as how you know how far to roll at such a low height.

Also how did that compare to 'normal training' heights you were used to?

Thanks

[cash47]

Bladdered, I am sure the bulk of the DS did exactly as you say. Certainly it would be my reaction 30 years on. However, my flight were approached and asked the question.

[The Old Fat One]

We covered this on the Flying Supervisors Course at Bentley Priory, along with Bud Holland and the Puma that run out of fuel and landed on a parade square in the middle of a parade somewhere in Europe.

Twas a long time ago and I'm sure there are better informed than me out there, but I seem to recall the root cause was thought to be a badly planned display, requiring said infringer to over cook a turn or something. The guy who briefed us seemed to think the pilot did a good job not parking it in CHOM.

more than happy to be flamed if wrong...just reporting what I recall for from a very good course, with a lot of "hidden insights" 15 years ago.

[Widger]

If it is the Mogwi that I am thinking off, I was stood as a young Middy on the port sponson on Ark Royal in about 1987/8 during his final flight and he was half way between the sponson and the water with a huge rooster tail of water following behind. 5-10 feet my estimate and doing about 300 knots!!

:eek:

[Mogwi]

Hello Mogwi - could you elaborate about the HUD height and how it was calibrated to the aircraft - i.e. was it from the bottom of the gun packs and only when S and L? (RadAlt)
or was it Barometric but imprecise?

The main reason I ask is obviously lower the better in that situation but curious as how you know how far to roll at such a low height.

Also how did that compare to 'normal training' heights you were used to?

Thanks

Hi Shaft,

As I recall, the radio altimeter aerial was pretty much under the cockpit, so a foot or so above the bottom of the gunpods. Don't know if it was calibrated to take account of this but then those sort of heights were probably not in the spec! Normal training heights for the RN were down to 50' over the sea but normally restricted to 250' over land and roll restriction was purely eyeball! The radalt obviously over-read when not in level flight.

There was also bar alt in the HUD but that relied on the correct/accurate setting to give true height and was only really used for ATC purposes.

I remember my late father (ex Seafire driver) telling me that the lowest safe height to fly was half your wingspan, so you could always get 90 degrees of bank!

Don't know about affect on hats, but it had an effect on my long-johns!

[Mogwi]

If it is the Mogwi that I am thinking off, I was stood as a young Middy on the port sponson on Ark Royal in about 1987/8 during his final flight and he was half way between the sponson and the water with a huge rooster tail of water following behind. 5-10 feet my estimate and doing about 300 knots!!

:eek:

Hi Widge,

Yes, tactically unsound but great fun! You could see the "snail trail" from about 30 miles from height, on a good day. Same applies to helos flown "tactically" over water, as I once found to my advantage!

Mog

[Evalu8ter]

Mog,
Indeed - which is why we did an overwater demo on the course. Flying at 20 ft over the water gains you very little except a wake - the same, of course, over dust, sand and snow...The more time you spend avoiding hitting the ground, the less time you've got to look for other threats. The time for 10-20ft is over a desert locked up by an RF SAM (whether the enemy's or, indeed, your own....).

I think the Cranwell flypast has been somewhat relegated in recent years on the FSS by a certain Typhoon incident. Most amusingly, I was on the FSS with the said pilot and his "version of events" was somewhat different to the Chain of Command's....clearly, the D Staff hadn't all been briefed as there were a few awkward shuffles when the presenter started with "let me tell you what this muppet did...." (or words to that effect...).

[oldmansquipper]

Low flying? It`s a piece of cake. (Apologies to Mr Hannah)

As part of my gliding `Full Cat Instructor` course at Benson in the early 70`s I was privileged to fly with Doug Bridson as part of my final tests.

Doug had been a glider aerobatic champion. He had perfected a finishing routine which involved a very low downwind pass of the launch point at high energy. (Modern terminology for `kin fast, I believe). He would then keep it low to the field boundary before completing an extended 270 which led to a final 90 back into wind. He would stop with precision alongside the control box. Very very impressive.

Anyway, in the bar after my successful qualification, which included him demonstrating his `routine` with me in the back seat of our Bocian I naively said to him:

"Doug, it seems to me that, during the final turns when you were bleeding off the speed, you seemed to raise the fuselage rather than putting the wingtip down, why is that?."

His reply is still a classic.

"Well, old boy, If you don't, it can get rather messy"

RIP Doug, gone, but not forgotten.

[Fitter2]

We are in danger of thread drift, but I also had the pleasure of glider aerobatics with Doug Bridson, and recall him (when he was part of the Blue Diamonds) looking down at his Hunter doing a low fly-by at Middleton-St-George. The Electronics Centre was a single storey building......

[BEagle]

'Air show departures' were often a likely source of rule-breaking, particularly by those who'd been on static display and who hadn't been selected for their flying skills to be demonstrated at the show itself...

Seeing a P-47 emerging from between the hangars at Coningsby was memorable, as was a TWU Hawk at Brize. The world's only (serviceable at the time) Mk 7½ Meatbox slow-rolling at low level departing Abingdon was another, but it was flown with clear skill, if illegally. Whereas the CF-18 which came across the ULAS ASP at head height was another matter...

Back nearly 40 years ago when I was young and foolish, having been on static at Honington, I rang the Duty Pilot (who was actually OC Ops Wg) and asked if it would be OK to fly 'a visual circuit' before RTB. This was approved; a careful study of the TAPS showed that if one lined up with the south-eastern part of the taxiway, it would be possible to fly between the control tower and 12 Sqn's hangars after crossing the ASP. So, get airborne, turn downwind accelerating all the time, then turn in to run at about 80 ft and 350 KIAS over the ASP as planned... Then pull up, wingover to about 120° AoB to stop the climb and head off on the published SID.

Which probably gave people the closest and noisiest view of a Vulcan that they'd ever had until then. And yes, we did get deeply in doo-doo over that...:= Fortunately Honington's OC Ops Wg had been asked for the OK to do the circuit on departure, but hadn't actually asked for the details of our intention...:E

[H Peacock]

I've witnessed some very impressive flypasts during my time ( including the Cranwell F4s), and probably been involved in quite a few. I would opine that there is usually a 'grey' area between what has been approved/authorised, through what will almost certainly get you in trouble, to something potentially dangerous.

Just saw a video of an E3 doing a flypast of Lincoln a few years ago. Probably 1000ft msd or even more. I accept that it wasn't needed at roof-top height, but it looked almost pointless. I know it's not a display, but 500ft msd was as high as it ever needed to be! Snag is who will authorise it. QBF is a tad more involved, but again it's just too high.

Conversely, I recall being at Woodvale long long ago as very skilful Hawk QFI (CM) flew a display, then went over the top of ATC/MASUAS somewhat below 100ft! Looked great and perfectly safely flown. I remember Harriers out in Belize flying even lower, and occasionally upside down!

As ever it's a balancing act. You know if you 'bend' the authorisation you'll probably get away with it - provided you have the skill to safely complete it. If you completely ignore the auth/approval you're going to be in trouble, but sometimes it's worth it and just has to be done.

[LOMCEVAK]

It used to be a lot easier to 'discuss' flypasts after the event before YouTube came along!!!

It is possible to perform v. low flypasts safely, albeit whilst breaking the rules, but also possible to satisfy the rules and regulations and be dangerous. Judgement is the key, both in the flying and the supervisory aspects.

The Buccaneer left its jet efflux in the water below about 40 ft and there was an urban myth that if you were low enough you could push the stick forward and the ground effect would prevent you from hitting the sea. Funny thing is that I never met anyone who had tried it!

Tommy was one of my QFIs at BFTS before he went to the F4 - small world.

[Just This Once...]

Pre-YouTube, after one or two impressive 'airfield attacks':

Boss: "Anyone else who does a beat-up with no HUD film or claiming that the film was destroyed will be off the squadron by the end of the day."

Later that day... wings fully swept, quite low and neatly inverted, in full burner... sqn boss in full rage mode....

Sqn shag: "Boss, HUD film on the rack, as requested."

[Treble one]

Evalu8ter-are you talking about the Typhoon incident at RIAT, when his burners got him out of trouble?

[Stitchbitch]

..or was it the other one a few years later. :E

[Evalu8ter]

Treble One,
Ahem, no...the other one........Matt's close call is well documented and captured on Video. His mea culpa was very public....and also covered in these hallowed pages.

Typhoon Close Call At RIAT [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-182254.html)

As stitchbitch suggests, the one a while later that wasn't anything like as public....

[DON T]

As a young LAC at Kaitak in 66/67 I can vividly remember being awoken one weekend by a Sqn Ldr Bodger Edwards flying his Hunter very low over our barrack block to celebrate the disbandment of 28 Sqn. Just as well that sheet change was the following day:eek:

[Treble one]

Ahh, I'm afraid I am entirely ignorant of that one Evalu8ter. I did see the Dutch F-16 nearly buy the farm once (literally) at RIAT during a Friday display practice, burner was to the rescue again (FCC ordered him to land immediately afterwards)....