Learning to glide - what's it all about?

[wannabeglider]

I am looking for a new hobby. Flying has always been something I want to do but it's always been so expensive. I have been looking at gliding as it seems reasonable in price and pretty interesting.

I don't know that much about it though. My nearest club is London Gliding Club (in dunstable). I have heard it is mainly the older generation that glide as it requires a full days commitment (as being retired they have more time). Is this correct? I could spare full days now, but in the next few years I probably will not be able too (I'm an apprentice and my job is only going to get more complicated!).

Also how long does it take to be able to fly without needing an instructor? I see videos of people going on holiday to places like Austria to glide an it looks amazing!

Any advice/ info?

Thanks :)

[Flying Lawyer]

If you move quickly, there's still time to apply for a Gliding Scholarship which provides membership of a BGA gliding school of your choice and 20 winch launches which could take you to at least first solo.

Closing date for receipt of applications is 17 March 2015.

See here for more details, a downloadable application form and descriptions by last year's winners of what is involved : Gliding Scholarship Applications Open! | Young Air Pilots (http://youngairpilots.org/2015/01/30/gliding-scholarship-applications-open/)

[old10ge]

Thats a real big question wannabe and if you really want to find out then your best bet is to go and have a look at the operation as all clubs operate slightly differently.

Initially you could have a look at the London Gliding Club website and see what their rates are.

And though it may appear to be an old folks sport it certainly is not and we have a big Junior movement with solo pilots as young as 14 and the Junior classification continues up to the age of 25.

Best of luck.

[Benjybh]

Judging by the fact you say you're an apprentice I'm guessing you're young-ish? I'm going to copy/paste a reply I wrote for the very same question a week or so ago...

The Junior Gliding scene in the UK is very much alive and well, and an awesome way to extend your social circle!

Get yourself over to https://www.facebook.com/ukjuniorgliding and take a look at all the stuff we get up to. We run a number of events throughout the year, most of them involving flying, all of them involving having a great time and plenty of long nights in the bar! You'll be pleasantly surprised to find that there are actually a lot of very normal, decent young guys and girls in gliding - we're not all weird. Like Air Cadets. (I joke...mostly). To run you through the calendar of what we get up to:

In the off-season (say, October through to March) we run weekend expeditions to various gliding clubs - partly as a chance to do some interesting winter flying, partly as a chance to all catch up and have a bit of a party. This is our third year of running the 'Winter Series', as it's called, and this season we went to Portmoak in Scotland, Denbigh in North Wales, and we'll be heading to Shenington, Oxon, in April. Each event usually sees north of 50 young guys and girls turn up - aged anywhere from 15 to 26 (the official 'Junior' age cut off) and plenty more thirty-somethings who can't quite cut the Juniors cord!
There are a few other events too, such as the annual BGA Conference - which happened last weekend in Nottingham and judging by the photos (I sadly couldn't make it this year) finished with one hell of a party!

Of course the highlight of most people's calendar is the UK Junior National Championships: Nine days of racing, partying and generally having a good time. For the first time in a good number of years we're expecting a full (50 glider) grid, all made up of pilots under 26. It will be pretty awesome to be a part of. And don't feel that just because you're not competing you can't come along. There will likely be at least another 50 'crew' and hangers-on, as well as maybe 10-15 less experienced guys undertaking the 2-seat Cross Country training that runs alongside the competition. In addition, the competition this year (being held at Aston Down in Gloucestershire) is being run alongside a Regionals competition, so expect to see more than 80 gliders sat on the runway ready to launch each day...it's pretty impressive!

Of course there are competitions running around the country nearly every week of the summer, and you'll always expect to see at least a handful of young guys flying them - plenty of us will try and get down to the bigger competitions at weekends for the social side even if we're not competing or crewing...gliding club bars are cheap...!

Anyway, enough of that...I'm going to link you to a couple of videos put together by the UK Junior Gliding Team - our 2013 and 2012 end-of-season reviews. Check out the rest of the stuff on our channel too, if this whets your appetite!
2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ1jnQtCMiM
2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpFaCs_3JoA

If you need anything else at all, I'm happy to chat here, or drop a message to the UK Junior Gliding Facebook page and I'll get back to you.

In summary, gliding is awesome. The people in gliding are awesome. Find your nearest club (let me know where you are and I'll recommend one - not all clubs are born equal!) and come along to an event - we're all super friendly and you won't regret it!

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Wannabeglider,

It's very many years since I was a member of London Gliding Club at Dunstable Downs, but there are a few things that will not have changed; in particular, the site itself. Dunstable is an exceedingly complex site with three runways and therefore six directions of take-off and landing, each of which has its safety issues, notably the proximity of the ridge immediately along one side of the field, which complicates things.

When I was there, you needed a separate instructor check-out for each direction of take-off/landing. This meant that you might be flying solo on a direction you are checked out on only for the wind to change to one that you are not checked out on, so you are back with an instructor. And you only have to have gone a few weeks without using that direction of take-off/landing for your check-out to expire and have to be renewed with more than one check flight.

So if you do take up gliding, my advice would be to start at some other club located at a flat site and only transfer to Dunstable when your gliding has reached a high standard; (i.e. 'C' Certificate or above and when you are ready to buy into a group). When I was at Dunstable there were ab-initio people there who had taken three YEARS just to go solo!

My advice would be to take a summer, one-week, holiday gliding course at a flat, uncomplicated gliding site; (Booker might be a good site for this purpose). Read a book on gliding theory before you go as in my experience theory is not taught on the courses. A course would be an excellent way to gain your first basic flying skills.

Finally, unlike powered flying, (where you can turn up have your lesson and then go home,) in gliding you have to spend a lot of time on the ground man-handling gliders and cables, helping to get other people airborne. You will probably have to get there in the early morning to get your name high on the flying list and help get the gliders out to the launch point. You will then spend an hour or more manhandling gliders and cables before it is your turn to fly, and then after flying you will be expected to stay on and help everybody else fly. So expect to be there all day.

And don't think gliding is cheap. It isn't. Those small fees and costs soon build up.

Good luck!

BP.

[Shytehawk]

How old are you? Have you thought of Joining the Air Cadets who will provide the training for free.

[BackPacker]

Some random notes.

Gliding, to a very large extent, is a very social activity. Every member of the club is expected to pitch in, not just with the day to day gliding operation, but also regarding winter maintenance and so forth. That's what keeps the costs down. (Obviously there are exceptions - these are typically more commercial outfits that run as schools.)

The gliding day itself is normally a full day attendance. The reason is that gliders can't move on the ground under their own power, so you need a lot of hands on the ground to retrieve them from the landing area and line them up for take-off. You also need people to operate the winch, retrieve cables, man the starting light and whatnot. Everybody pitches in for these tasks, and it is considered "not done" not to do so. In fact, you'll probably be taught to perform the majority of these tasks on your first day already, to lighten the load on others.

Gliding is very weather dependent. Some days you can easily fly for hours, some days there's just no lift to be found and you're back on the ground in six minutes flat. For each instructor there's typically between three and five students, so you can expect to make two to three flights a day. If these happen to be short, then you've spent all your day at the field, with only 12 minutes of flight time in your logbook. (And still look back on a great day.)

Because of this, actual flight time is nearly never counted. What is far more important is the number of landings that you've done. With a bit of luck, expect to go solo after 30-45 flights.

Most clubs that I know only (or mostly) fly on weekends due to the work commitments of the members. If you show up every day on every flyable weekend, you should be able to gain your GPL in a years time. Most members actually take two years to reach that standard. In the Netherlands, the theory courses and exams are only organized throughout the winter period, so don't expect to be able to do an intensive course of a number of weeks and be done with it.

(Having said that, all this applies to the pre-EASA Dutch situation. The UK BGA has a different training scheme and I don't think there's a single big exam you need to pass, but rather a series of hurdles. And under EASA this is supposed to change anyway - somewhere over this year I believe.)

Winch launching is far more cost-effective, and a gliding club can reach a far higher number of take-offs compared to towing. However, a winch launch release is always directly above the winch, so you lose some altitude hunting around for lift, or reaching a ridge, or whatever. A tow is a lot more expensive but you can reach higher altitudes and you can be released at the ideal place. That may make it more cost effective on marginal days.

I have both a PPL and a GPL. They're totally different beasts - it's just the aerodynamics that's mostly the same. The club I rent SEPs from is about 45 minutes drive, so if the weather looks good I'll look in the booking system to see if my favorite aircraft is available, and I can be airborne about an hour later. Spend an hour doing aeros, drive home and have a great afternoon. In contrast, the gliding club is two hours away by car, so if I go there, it's for a full week. I treat it as a vacation.

[A and C]

Gliding needs new blood and I can only recommend it as a great way to go flying.

The only thing I would say is seer clear of the types who think that any powerd aircraft is only good to drag a glider into the sky, those types prevent the gliding movment engaging with other types of GA to the detriment of the whole GA community.

[sunday driver]

I booked a week's course at Lasham for myself + significant other a few years ago as an alternative holiday.
A really, really great holiday - plus we both came away much fitter as a result.
SD

[wannabeglider]

Thanks guys.

Cambridge gliding club is also close to me. I am 20 so I would imagine CGC would have more people my age as it's near to Cambridge Uni?

What do you think the best way for me to try it is? Should I buy one of these 'trial flights' (which seem a little over priced compared to flying charges?) or just go along and join as a member and go that way?

[Heston]

Cambridge Gliding Club are excellent - well equipped and well organised. Not the cheapest, but you will make progress there.


Gliding is not for you unless you are prepared to spend all day at the airfield helping others to fly as well as doing your own flight(s). Wear warm clothes.


I wouldn't bother booking a trial flight. Just turn up on a good day, find whoever is in charge on the day and make sure they understand that you're serious and prepared to muck in for the day as long as you get a slot booked to fly. You'll find out if you like it quickly enough that way...

[wannabeglider]

Heston are you a member there?

Anyone know what the costs are? I know it's about £11 per winch and 72p a minute but that doesn't really tell me much. How much would I expect to have to pay for a day at the club? (How many flights should I expect and roughly how long, if it's even possible to say?)

[thing]

Flying has always been something I want to do but it's always been so expensive. I have been looking at glidingI don't know if you know but gliding is flying...:).

I started off my flying adventure on gliders many moons ago, (still a club member). It's a great way to fly. It is an all day participant sport but if you get the right club it can be good. Be tolerant...many gliding clubs have members who have been there for a couple of hundred years and like you to know it. Far more so than powered flying it throws people of all backgrounds and temperaments closely together, so not only do you need the stamina to be out on the field from 0800 to 2100 0800-210o088 in the summer, you also need people skills.

Some people disagree but when I became a powered pilot I found that being a glider pilot made the training easy. So when you do start earning a bit more gelt and maybe want to dip your toe into powered flying you will find that your gliding experience will stand you in good stead.Call
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[thing]

And apparently 0800 to 2100 means I want to make a Skype call!!!:)

[astir 8]

a) You're right, gliding is amazing! Please give it a try

b) Costs vary a lot between clubs. The tendency is for the big 7 days/week clubs to have professional staff who have to be paid-for. Weekend-only clubs run more on volunteer staff and tend to be cheaper.

c) As with most things, the nearer to London you get, the more expensive it becomes, but there is an element of "yer gets wot yer pays for" as well.

d) How long it takes to go solo depends a lot on yourself, both through ability to learn and your ability to attend regularly. The younger you are, normally the quicker you learn (that's true for power flying as well). With purely winch launching on a fairly large airfield we used to reckon between 60 and 100 launches. Training by aerotowing implies longer flights and possibly 30 - 50 launches to solo.

e) Look at all the gliding club websites and you'll see what their charges are.

As I said, do give it a go! Addictive yes, time consuming, also yes. :ok:

[wannabeglider]

Is it always a strict 'start til finish' routine? I can barely get up at 10:00 at the weekends let alone be at an airfield an hour away for 8:00!!

Sorry my posts are all very delayed as mods have to check them first... as I am a new member!:ugh:

[rnzoli]

I have both a PPL and a GPL. They're totally different beasts
Actually, there is a way to combine them.
I had the same dilemma, gliding with a lot of time committment or single-engine planes that were stretching into the roof of my budget.

Luckily I discovered motorized gliders, which combine the best of both worlds. Many glider clubs as well as motorized clubs have them.
Fees are affordable, and no waiting is needed for aerotow or winch launch.
Can fly regularly, even during the winter, and go soaring for many hours in the summer.
Performance is about 2/3 of gliders and motorized planes.
There are several steps wtihin this category, ranging from early 1970's Scheibe Falke (Slinsgby T61 Falke/Slingsby Venture in the UK) to modern Grob G109s and Diamond Super Dimonas.


So if both time and money is a constraint for someone, I really recommend the touring motor gliders. Not so fancy, but very lovely planes.

[Benjybh]

WRT Cambridge/Dunstable, the latter has a really good bunch of Juniors at the moment - some top guys and girls. The current course instructor is 17, too. Having people your age will make a huge difference, believe me!

[thing]

Not so fancy

Anything with wings on is fancy to me, gliders, TMGs, SEPs: all good stuff, all different. They all get you into the air and master of your own fate.

[Benjybh]

Is it always a strict 'start til finish' routine? I can barely get up at 10:00 at the weekends let alone be at an airfield an hour away for 8:00!!


Generally you'll be fine if you top or tail the day. If you need to shoot off early, then come up to the club to get all the kit out in the morning. If you really can't get there early, then make sure you stay around long enough to put the toys away again in the evening. Though bare in mind that daily briefings will often be at 9 or 10am, and you should really be going to those.

There are also a lot of sponsorship schemes and bursaries up for grabs. Have a read through this post (https://www.facebook.com/ukjuniorgliding/posts/782628895154334) I wrote a couple of months ago, and let me know if you have any more questions. Gliding for us young guys can be pretty damn cheap: Thanks to a bursary from the Air League (though I did have access to a free glider), my flying bill for last season worked out to about £18. Not too shabby.

[mary meagher]

Good morning wannabe!

Of course young people of your age have a different biological clock, about three hours behind the adults....schools are beginning to adjust to this fact!

I recommend you arrive at your NEAREST gliding club, about 9 or 10 am, and ask anybody around who is the duty pilot ....or launchpoint coordinator, whatever they call themselves at Cambridge! Say you would like to learn, and would be willing to help out in any way. See what they say. They will have all kinds of discounts for young people, most clubs do, even London Gliding Club has a very good program.

Talk to other club members, just get a feel for the place. If you rolled up to my gliding club, they would sell you a winch launch for £45 or £50 pounds, which would include 3 months membership, so after this first day, a winch launch would only cost £8. And we fly 7 days, weather permitting. A lot of smaller clubs fly only on weekends.
However, it is not so close to your home....so check out Cambridge first of all, you may find old pilots, but they should be pleased to welcome a youngster, ESPECIALLY if you say you would be pleased to help rig a glider....

If you do begin helping with the gliders, make sure you are doing EXACTLY the correct thing.....don't just rush in and start pushing on the trailing edge, for example. You will be especially welcome if you offer to wash the gliders at the end of the day, they do collect insects on the leading edges!

Others have said it is correct to either help get them out, or help put them away. Or you could pay a lot of money to fly power, and get fat instead...!

have fun! we do.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Wannabeglider,

Is it always a strict 'start til finish' routine? I can barely get up at 10:00 at the weekends let alone be at an airfield an hour away for 8:00!!

Here's something else about gliding that I can't imagine will have changed much since I was gliding. On a gliding site at the start of every day the instructors will open a fresh 'flying list' on which people who wish to fly that day will put their names down. People fly in strict order of their names appearing on that list. As people have their flights their names are crossed off the list. So the higher your name is on that list, the earlier you get to fly

When I was gliding, it was common for that flying list to be thirty or more names long by 9 a.m. So if you get there in the mid-morning, you can still put your name down, but there will still be about twenty odd names above yours. It was quite common for the people at the bottom of the list not to fly at all that day, (especially if the weather changed during the day,) this after putting in a hard day's work heaving gliders and cables on the ground.

Some clubs, (notably Dunstable,) used to have botheys. These were effectively dormitories where you could stay overnight and eat breakfast the following morning in the club canteen. So you could arrive the night before, sleep in the bothey and crawl out in time for the commencement of activities the following morning. It might be worth asking if this service is still available.

In regard to how to get started, I would say do a trial flight. If you like it, do a week's course.

Regards,

BP.

[thing]

People fly in strict order of their names appearing on that list. Of course when you get good at reading the weather you can make sure you're far enough down the list for when it starts booming... :ok: 'I've seen a bus empty when the duty dog walks in with the flying list and asks 'Can you start filling it in.'

[ChrisJ800]

I started gliding with a week long course at Challock aged 17 then from 18-21 at a small club then 21-25 at Dunstable. I loved Dunstable and never though about age but I guess most were older. It more came down to hours experience and X Country distances etc rather than age as to who you mix with.

I then got a UK PPL after a Silver C conversion in just 16 hours instead of 40 which was a big saving, before going onto CPL/IR. In spending a day at a club you learn other skills like driving and repairing tractors, driving the winch and rigging/derigging gliders especially when you get into a syndicate. These make the day go quick. At Dunstable you can stay for a few days or weeks intense gliding if you dont want to commute, or at least you could when I was there.

Because its got winch launching and a ridge these keep costs down as you can get plenty of airtime. I had years of winch launching and never got less than a 30min flight with ridge, thermal and weak evening wave lift. Even cross country flights can be started with a winch to the ridge.

[wannabeglider]

heliport - Yes I had a look but the entry criteria said something about wanting a career in aviation. I wouldn't mind it but my career path is pretty much set for the next few years so I don't think they would consider me.

Still reading all your posts, thanks!

[rnzoli]

gliders, TMGs, SEPs: all good stuff, all different
Very true, and you need to demonstrate good airmanship in all of them, while in the air.

For us, TMG folks, the troubles happen on the ground! The glider folks laugh at our 1:20-ish glide ratio, and the SEP folks laugh at our 65-ish kts cruise speed :) So you can't really show off with a TMG plane, unless it's one of those brand new composite makes.

Although I must mention, one big advantage of our low cruising speed is that single engine planes and also gliders like to team up with us and fly on our wings for a minute or so, when the circumstances allow, just for fun. It's an awsome sight, words can hardly describe :)

[mary meagher]

rnzoli, motorglider flying next to a glider an awesome sight?

Wannabe, if you get your wish and become a glider pilot, awesome sights await. I trust you will be trained to KEEP A GOOD LOOKOUT!

Because the most awesome sight in aviation you will ever see is sharing a thermal with fifteen or twenty other gliders....above you, below you, and one or two at your level, all turning the same way. And this takes place every summer over the UK, in competition flying. Which is why we wear parachutes.

My first competition was at Lasham, the biggest club in the UK. There were a hundred gliders on the runway, a national competition of 50 gliders flying the standard class, and two regional handicapped classes of 25 gliders each.

Each class must be launched in an hours time. So about 8 or 10 tug planes, in orderly sequence. The safe way the PPL flying light power can avoid this traffic, is to fly above cloud, say 8,000 to 10,000 feet. Usually smoother air, as thermals are associated with the cumulus clouds. Airline pilots often fly gliders, for fun.

NOTAMS advise about these events, but they are weather dependent, and the tasks for the day may cover 300 to 500 kilometers. This to my mind is the most fun in aviation, I just loved flying in competition. Especially if I was still flying and half the guys have landed out!!!!!

[Piltdown Man]

Pop along to your nearest club as soon as you can. Both Cambridge and Dunstable are good clubs. Both will have young people. Have a Trial Lesson. Ask about the money. If you can afford it, do it. And spend as much time as you can doing full time courses to get the inital drudge out of the way. Once you have reached a reasonable level, say after a year, you will know what you want to go for. Competitions, Aerobatics, Cross-country, Wave Soaring, the Vintage glider scene etc. Each has their own set of attractions. It just depends how you are cut. Only time (and wanting to see my family) prevents me from gliding now, otherwise I would be off gliding every weekend.

PM

[snapper1]

Wanabeglider,

Lots of good advice here for you - as is always the case when someone asks for info on gliding. We glider pilots are keen to show our enthusiasm for our sport/hobby and to attempt to change some of the many misconceptions that exist within the general populace and even within aviation circles. Responding to questions from someone with a genuine interest is a good way to do it.

But just to take it a step further, have a look at the attached video. The voice-over is a bit cheesy but the content is factually acurate. These pilots are the Lewis Hamiltons and the Fernado Alonsos of soaring. Something to aspire to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33bOGqWheCY

[PaulisHome]

Hi

I'm Chairman at Cambridge - I'll PM you my phone number, give me a call and ask any questions you like.

But to answer a few of the points:

At Cambridge we have bookable training - so you can book training by the half day with a ratio of two students per instructor. That will give you a good amount of flying for your time on the airfield (but you will be expected to help get the aircraft out and around the launch point for the rest of the half-day).

For someone like you, who wants to learn to fly, I wouldn't recommend a trial flight - they are for people who more typically want a 'gliding experience'. Instead, come along and book some training - a half or full day, or even a one week course. We do that for a membership fee of £25 per day, plus flying at club rates.

In the long run gliding is both cheaper and (IMHO) more challenging than power flying (and I speak as someone who still has more power hours than gliding, just). At the early stages though, it's cost benefit isn't as marked - since as has been said, you do a lot of launches per flying hour.


Paul

[Fantome]

Because the most awesome sight in aviation you will ever see is sharing a thermal with fifteen or twenty other gliders.

no, not quite Mary, because if you are thermalling very close to a Wedged Tail Eagle, as we do often at our club, then that can add a glorious bonus to a good day's soaring. Sometimes the eagle is right off your wingtip, so close that you swear he deflected his wing to clear your wingtip. You can be eyeball to dynamic eyeball, something simply not possible for a human to experience in any other context.

This may sound too close for comfort. The club has been at the Woodbury site for forty years now.. In the beginning the eagles could be aggressive. One of the Blaniks still bears a graunch just behind the back seat on top. But now they are completely accepting of our presence. Today we are probably sharing the airspace with third or fourth generation wedgies since our coming, which would explain their almost amicable behaviour.

Needless to say watching their movement closely can be a sure signpost of where next to be heading. Often the eagle will take you directly to the next booming thermal.