Forces TV - 1st Gulf War 1991

[John Nichol]

Dear fellow Ppruners,

I am involved with Forces TV making a new series called "We Were There" - an hour long programme which brings together military personnel from an iconic incident to discuss their experiences. Rather than a 'normal' documentary style interview, the programmes are a round-table discussion involving about 6 'veterans' with everyone contributing.

So far, we have made episodes about: Korea and the Battle of Gloster Hill, The Falklands and the sinking of HMS Sheffield and Northern Ireland and the bombing of 2 Para at Warren Point.

I am investigating the possibility of doing an episode covering the air war during the first few nights of Op Granby in 1991 and I'd be interested to hear from any of you fine gentlemen who were out there at the time - if you DM me a few basic details and an email address, I'd be happy to hear from you.

best to all
John Nichol

[Top Bunk Tester]

Sorry John, touched a nerve, it was 2 Para at WP (Edited to tone down post)

A good friend who lost his leg in the incident (One of his colleagues came out with the now famous "No you haven't mate, it's over there") sadly died of a heart attack fairly recently after working tirelessly for many years with BLESMA and other service charities. He was in hospital following breaking his other femur during a charity bike ride when he succumbed. He had also recently had the other leg taken off after years of pain from the original incident. RIP Paul B

[John Nichol]

Many thanks for pointing out my error & you are quite right TBT - a slight slip of the keyboard on my part.

& your friend Paul was mentioned on a number of occasions by the guys I interviewed. Indeed I met him a couple of times when doing some work with BLESMA.

[Lima Juliet]

JN

How about covering the lesser known parts of Op GRANBY that started in August 1990? I was the Sqn Duty Officer the night the FLASH signal came in for the F3s of 5/29 Sqns to deploy immediately from Akrotiri to Saudi Arabia. Some very worried looking faces the next day as the int came in that Saddam was preparing to roll further South and that we would be standing on our own, with the Saudis and a few Americans, until the cavalry arrived...:ooh:

Whilst I was non-CR at the time, there were some interesting stories coming back from the crews that deployed. Flying CAPs in small numbers against a numerically superior foe in the first few days/nights in a barely combat capable jet with no defensive aids took a lot of guts, in my opinion. No CSAR, no preparation and making it up as they went along.

The build up to the '91 Air War might make an interesting 5 minute intro to your planned program. It shows, in my opinion, the very best of the RAF whilst it was still a force to be reckoned with in its own right (about 27 fast jet sqns, if I recall correctly?).

LJ

[John Nichol]

It's a very good point LJ, and made by the F3 guys before. Thanks for the reminder.

With the format of the programme as it is - filmed "as live" with half a dozen guests talking about a single incident, it might be quite difficult to bring in another storyline. But I'll see who comes forward with personal accounts.
cheers
JN

[Courtney Mil]

John, sounds like a great project. Very good luck with it.

[The B Word]

Here you go, this will bring back some memories:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2c6uKtUYXA

:ok:

[The B Word]

Found this on your YouTube feed JN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfdsMwg-XmQ

Splice the 2 together and job done! :ok:

[John Nichol]

ah yes - one of the classic GW1 vids.
I put a copy of the TVAM one up on Youtube a while ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfdsMwg-XmQ

Happy days.

[The B Word]

Beat you by 1 minute! :ok:

[Mal Drop]

I doubt that a full and frank discussion of the merits (or otherwise) of Saudi-Arabian compound-hopping (and 'furniture' constructed from slabs of tonic water) whilst waiting for the initial aluminium overcast to clear before we could take Albert off on a series of jolly adventures would make for riveting viewing. However, every luck with it.

Actually, having just looked at the schedule for this evening, it would probably qualify as 'appointment TV'.

[NutLoose]

You know what, it would be nice to see one covering the coldwar from a RAFG and BOAR viewpoint.

[John Nichol]

A very interesting point Nut......& already under consideration - you'll have to watch this space (or more accurately, a new thread!)

But I need to get this GW1 programme off the ground first.

[Alber Ratman]

Thanks for posting the Sky News vid, B. Video of the battle damage to "Delta Hotel" on the 24th of January 91. I was on the ABDR team that got that frame back as a war goer less than two weeks later.. It did another 8 raids before a cracked canopy hinge saw its return to Bruggen (and two years of Cat 3 repairs!). Could talk about that for 30 minutes very easily.

[Vendee]

I am investigating the possibility of doing an episode covering the air war during the first few nights of Op Granby in 1991 and I'd be interested to hear from any of you fine gentlemen who were out there at the time - if you DM me a few basic details and an email address, I'd be happy to hear from you.

Hi John, I did Op Granby at Muharraq with an outfit called XV Sqn (groundcrew)..... you might have heard of them. From memory, you and JP didn't stick around for long ;)

I do remember it was the 17(F) Sqn groundcrew that saw you off and when the XV Sqn boys came on shift at 0700 to find out that you and JP were missing, the mood was so dark. It had been a bit of an adventure up to then with our fancy 5* hotels. The reality brought us all down to earth. The other dark time came later on when Steve Hicks didn't come back.

Nice to see you post here occasionally. Hope you are well and good luck with the programme.

[Kitbag]

Just to add a bit of balance in terms of types of ac involved I make no apologies for my favourite video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwieL2O2Nn8.
25 years on and no chance of operating on such a scale again.

[Pontius Navigator]

LJ, you reminded me, I took a couple of F2 guys down to Metropole Building for a special brief about 1988 prior to their visiting Q8. I wonder if they were still involved come 1990.

[Onceapilot]

LJ,

Yes, the initial deployment was a very interesting time for mud movers as well. The most dissapointing thing to me, particularly in retrospect, was that it took so long to get a useful air to ground capability in place. Yes, Heaven and earth were moved from the off but, we were supposed to be ready for WW3! Thank our lucky stars the big shooting war did not start any earlier.:O

Good luck with the prog John, I am certain this subject will become more seriously exposed as time goes by.:sad:

OAP

[just another jocky]

...it took so long to get a useful air to ground capability in place

M8, within 12 hours of the arrival of the first GR1s in theatre, there were 4 on QRA loaded with JP233s.

Yes, I know there were no maps, or targets and it was a political QRA as much as anything else but still, it was a capability.

The PGM capability took longer but then it was still in its infancy on the still-young GR1 in 90/91. But we showed the world how to do it and the GR1/TIALD combination was second only to the F117A on bombs dropped vs DHs. :ok:

[Lima Juliet]

OAP

Yes, I think the first muds (Jags) arrived in far off Thumrait about 3 days after the Lincolnshire Land Sharks touched down in Dahran.

JN

Thanks mate. I think that seeing as it is 25 years ago this coming August, that there might be enough for a documentary series on the UK's efforts for GW1 (similar was done for the Falklands War). Your planned program may well be leading the charge. Also, the transition from the 'thirty year rule' to the 'twenty year rule' might see classified info being released earlier under FOI.

Good luck with your project matey and I look forward to being one of the armchair critics if the TV production try to add their own falir to the final product! :ok:

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

PN

There were all sorts of 'special briefs' in 1990 to which you refer when some of the ex-Soviet equipment belonging to former East Germany fell under the gaze of the NATO Allies...:eek:

Some of this came at a very good time as Saddam had gone to the USSR to buy his arms after the West stopped selling him anything of use (apart from the French, with Mirage and Roland). If the Berlin Wall hadn't fallen in 1989, I wonder if the outcome of the Air War would have been slightly different?

LJ

[Onceapilot]

Hi JAJ,

Yes, but they were a GR1 pair with 4x1000ret on Q the first night we had any jets at Bahrain, 28 Aug 90.

OAP

[The B Word]

Another favourite from the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dxoavqQgKA

Plus, if I recall correctly, the GR1s arrived about 2 weeks after the F3s and the Jags.

PS. Wasn't there a good story about how the Pilot Officer became a Pilot Officer at 3:54 into the video? Always heard a rumour that there was, as it is highly unusual to make CR as a Pilot Officer on the Jag.

[Darvan]

JaJ. How short our memories are. I think you will find that the GR1/pavespike combination was marginally better than the GR1/TIALD combination. About 51% vice 50.5%

[Kitbag]

History of the Royal Air Force here (http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/AirPowerintheGulfWar.cfm) seems about right from what I remember at the time

[Snakecharmer]

Whatever happened to the 'out takes' version, complete with 'Buxton Mineral Water', "that crew drank my hospitality budget" etc? Someone taped a rugby match over my copy... would love to see it again...

[just another jocky]

Yes, but they were a GR1 pair with 4x1000ret on Q the first night we had any jets at Bahrain, 28 Aug 90.

OAP

Hmmm, at odds with my recollection but at this distance, I'm not going to argue.

JaJ. How short our memories are. I think you will find that the GR1/pavespike combination was marginally better than the GR1/TIALD combination. About 51% vice 50.5%

Not sure where you get your figures but at the end of the war, the US put out the figures and it was definitely TIALD 2nd to the F117A. If I had access to my library, I'm sure I could find a reference.

[Kitbag]

From the link at post 25

By this time it was clear that the weapon-carrying capability of the Buccaneers was being under-utilised and that mixed Buccaneer and Tornado formations raised some inevitable coordination problems. Thus, in the last ten days of the war, Buccaneers using Pave Spike and Tornados using the newly arrived thermal imaging airborne laser designators (TIALD) increasingly carried out self-designating attacks. A brand new system, TIALD offered important advantages over the day-only, manually controlled Pave Spike laser designator used by the Buccaneers. TIALD was more reliable, fully integrated into the Tornado's navigation and bombing system and could be used at night. As a result of this newly acquired night/LGB capability, the Tornados were tasked to help the US F-117A Stealth fighter with its attacks on Iraqi HASs, and thus for the next two weeks Tornado packages hit Iraqi HASs by night and bridges by day. At this stage of the war over 60% of Tornado sorties were using laser-guided bombs.

[NutLoose]

Having left the RAF I was involved in the repaint of the Ferranti 125 that had been involved in the development of the TIALD pod, they were operating out of Turnhouse and when setting up the TIALD on the aircraft they were presented with a feint image of the word FERRANTI in reverse across the screen, the engineer was telling me it took them ages to find out the cause. The jet was facing their ( closed I believe) metal hanger and it was detecting the thermal differences on the far hangar wall which had Ferranti painted in big white letters on the outside facing :)

[Darvan]

Pavespike and TIALD results were pretty much on a par during GW1. The TIALD pod rushed into service under UOR was still a developmental pod but still managed to guide approx 200 PW IIs against Pavespike, which designated 746 PW IIs with an overall accuracy of 51.34%.

[air pig]

JN,

Someone mentioned BAOR/RAFG, whilst there are some book about BRIXMIS nobody as far as I know has undertaken a documentary. Same amazing stories in the books.

The second one is about the teams and crews in the MERT/IRTs and CCAST and their development in Iraq and Afghanistan. Saved many a life and nobody except you and your co-author in 'Medic' has written about them. They so deserve their history becoming far more widely known as the award of the ARCC to Sqn Ldr 'Charlie' Thompson-Edger PMRAFNS will have passed so many on the 'outside' by without a thought. She was involved in moving up to 600 causalities. An outstanding achievement.

[just another jocky]

Interesting link in post #25 that is referred to in post #28...

By this time it was clear that the weapon-carrying capability of the Buccaneers was being under-utilised and that mixed Buccaneer and Tornado formations raised some inevitable coordination problems. Thus, in the last ten days of the war, Buccaneers using Pave Spike and Tornados using the newly arrived thermal imaging airborne laser designators (TIALD) increasingly carried out self-designating attacks. A brand new system, TIALD offered important advantages over the day-only, manually controlled Pave Spike laser designator used by the Buccaneers. TIALD was more reliable, fully integrated into the Tornado's navigation and bombing system and could be used at night. As a result of this newly acquired night/LGB capability, the Tornados were tasked to help the US F-117A Stealth fighter with its attacks on Iraqi HASs, and thus for the next two weeks Tornado packages hit Iraqi HASs by night and bridges by day. At this stage of the war over 60% of Tornado sorties were using laser-guided bombs.

My bold above; I'm not sure about more reliable but then PaveSpike may have been quite unreliable??? but to claim that the 2 TIALD pods in GW1 were integrated into the nav & bombing system is a bit of a stretch. It was only after GW1, during the work-up and deployment for the return to the Gulf in 92 that they started to become integrated.

Still, let's not have a pi$$ing contest over who a few %age points....both systems did incredibly well.

[Onceapilot]

JAJ

No problem. The JP233 was not sent until much later.

JN

You must be deep into research. Do you know what has been released 540 wise for the Bahrain deployments or Auth sheets? Cheers

OAP

[John Nichol]

thanks for the replies guys - always appreciated.

If there are any more chaps (from any aircraft type!) out there who'd like to put themselves forward, I'd be more than pleased to hear from you.

OAP - I'm not looking too deeply into the paperwork trail as this is very much a "personal reminiscence" type of programme - & most certainly not a documentary reconstruction of the war.

[engineer(retard)]

If you want to know about TIALD, "DunIan" who has occasionally posted on here is the man to speak to. He had a beard you could hide a badger in.

[BEagle]

John's project concerns the first few nights of the air war. Pave Spike didn't arrive until the Buccs entered theatre on 26th Jan - and TIALD arrived on 6 Feb. Thus JN's project will probably focus on the time before PGMs were available, when only JPs, dumb bombs and ALARM were being used by the Tornados.

I was over at Tabuk on 19th Feb and was fortunate enough to see some TIALD imagery - an excellent piece of kit. The destruction of whatever had been in the Iraqi HAS which it had been designating was very impressive, causing a massive secondary. Unfortunately our evening mission was cancelled due to a Tornado unserviceability after we'd launched, so we flew back to KKIA instead.

[just another jocky]

I was over at Tabuk on 19th Feb and was fortunate enough to see some TIALD imagery - an excellent piece of kit. The destruction of whatever had been in the Iraqi HAS which it had been designating was very impressive, causing a massive secondary. Unfortunately our evening mission was cancelled due to a Tornado unserviceability after we'd launched, so we flew back to KKIA instead.

We may well have bumped into each other.

It certainly was a game-changer, esp the ability to debrief the crews when we got back. For the first time, they could actually see what their bombs were doing. The debriefs were usually crowded, guys who hadn't been flying that night coming in to watch the recordings.

[Pontius]

Don't forget to invite the panelists to bring their hotel loyalty cards and they can compare points accrued during the period :)

[BEagle]

Hmm...not sure I'd be that keen to claim 'loyalty points' for the Sahara at KKIA as it doesn't feature too highly on my list of preferred holiday destinations....

Waiting in the foyer for the engineer and navigator to turn up (as usual...), one of the recently arrived French Air Force Transall crew came up to me and asked "Where is ze bar?"....

The look of total shock on his face when I told him that not only was Saudi dry, but it was also a serious offence for anyone to be caught with alcohol was quite remarkable!

[Trumpet_trousers]

Sahara at KKIA

Tut tut, such a second-rate establishment, you should have been downtown in the Sheraton (or was it the Hilton?)
Great sport lobbing the complimentary shampoo over the balcony from the mezzanine level into the ornamental fountain next to reception, and then listening as the noise of the water was muted somewhat some seconds later.. :E The not-so-secret local police didn't know what to make of it either...
And the Gingers driving their minibus into the hotel garage behind another one - unfortunately not realising that theirs had the a/c unit on the roof, and didn't quite fit... oh how we laughed!!

[Darvan]

Reference Posts 28 and 32. I cannot comment on the reliability stats for TIALD but Pavespike was tasked on a total of 250 Buccaneer sorties and not one single sortie was lost due to Buccaneer or Pavespike unserviceability. Yes, there were many times when aircrew had to run for a spare Bucc following system function checks and, on occasions, one of a pair of Buccaneers had to spike for an unserviceable wingman's pod. Now that doesn't quite chime with Andy Vallence's claim that TIALD was a more reliable system than Pavespike, unless TIALD had a 100% serviceability record, which I somewhat doubt for a developmental capability rushed in to service under UOR. However, someone here may have knowledge of the overall reliability of TIALD. I can only comment on Pavespike and how, in the words of Peter de la Billiere, it saved the reputation of the Royal Air Force in the eyes of the US.

[Vendee]

in the words of Peter de la Billiere, it saved the reputation of the Royal Air Force in the eyes of the US.But he's just a Pongo.... what would he know :E

[ivrytwr3]

I had my 18th birthday during my time on Op Granby!

No idea how i was allowed out there in the first place to be honest!

[Onceapilot]

Quote Darvan

" I can only comment on Pavespike and how, in the words of Peter de la Billiere, it saved the reputation of the Royal Air Force in the eyes of the US".

So, how did they view the contribution of JP233?

OAP

[Lima Juliet]

OAP

I thought the same. JP233 was a niche capability and needed a suicidal straight and level delivery along the runway. US PGMs would not have had the same effect, in my opinion. A few holes to be filled in by bulldozer the next day!

LJ

[Onceapilot]

LJ

Well, the difference in strategy of these weapons is considerable. The runway denial weapon was designed for maximum short term disruption of FJ air ops from a fixed base in a relatively hostile AD situation with approx 4 a/c to close an airfield. The PGM solution required virtual air supremacy at medium altitude to pick off point targets at approx 1 PGM per DMPI.

OAP

[Darvan]

Paveway IIs were used to systematically destroy hardened shelters, one by one. Some shelters had aircraft within them. When the majority of shelters had been demolished, entrances to the shelters were targeted, then the intersections with taxiways, and then finally PW IIs cratered the runways at regular intervals. All these DMPIs contributed to a systematic OCA campaign, which followed an Air Interdiction phase targeting bridges on the Tigris and Euphrates, and numerous POL sites. The RAF's employment of JP 233 was criticised heavily by the US authorities, particularly because of the heavy losses incurred. Buccaneers and Pavespike were deployed at very short notice (36 hrs notice) having been told just the day before by a UK 3 star that their services would not be required on Granby. The US changed the minds of the RAF's senior ranks overnight and 'encouraged' them to deploy their only PGM capability into theatre.

[ExAscoteer]

The RAF's employment of JP 233 was criticised heavily by the US authorities, particularly because of the heavy losses incurred.

Really?

What 'heavy losses' would they be then?

Only a single Tornado was lost on a JP233 attack and that well after weapon release.

[Darvan]

Yes, you are correct. The US was concerned about the losses due to the continued low level campaign rather than JP 233 attacks specifically. These comments are not meant as any criticism of the skill and bravery of the GR1 force who went in alone and brave at night but to highlight the concern the US had about our doctrine at the time, which conflicted with their own.

[John Nichol]

thanks for the replies & PMs - please do contact me if you or someone you know flew in the first few days of the air war.

& regarding the "LL losses" - this has been a much-misunderstood part of GR1 history. I'm sure someone has all the facts at their fingertips regarding the exact (or presumed) cause of each loss, but I can think of 2 of my fellow POW chums who were lost/shot down at medium level.

& certainly a number (majority?) of the US losses were medium level too.

Anyway, perhaps we will discuss it 'live' during the programme!

[TEEEJ]

Darvan wrote

to highlight the concern the US had about our doctrine at the time, which conflicted with their own

Apologies if I have mis-read your post. During those initial days did it really conflict with what the US and others were doing?

The initial phase of the campaign was at low level for many of the players and was apparently planned for three days. F-111s, F-15Es and even B-52s were in those initial days flown at low level to strike targets. A number of B-52Gs suffered combat damage at low level. One F-15Es was lost during a low-level mission near Basra. Again during this low level phase other Coalition aircraft suffered damage. One French Jaguar returned with its tail shredded.

After the initial part of the low level phase CENTAF ordered the switch to medium level operations. Details of the low level phase were highlighted in Operation Desert Storm - Evaluation of the Air

Campaign - General Accounting Office - House of Representatives.

Moreover, in the first 3 days of the war, some aircraft (B-52s, A-6Es, GR-1s, and F-111Fs) attacked at very low altitude, where they found they were vulnerable to low-altitude defenses—AAA and IR SAMs. As a result, on day two, Brig. Gen. Glosson ordered that all coalition aircraft observe a minimum attack level of about 12,000 feet.

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/ns97134.pdf

B-52 low level info.

Colonel Ramsay bio

In January 1991 he was the flight leader for the first night, low-level combat mission ever flown by a B-52G, leading 14 aircraft to strike five Iraqi airfields in the opening minutes of Operation Desert Storm.

http://www.151arw.ang.af.mil/resources/biographies/bio.asp?id=10878

On 17 January 1991, seven B-52Gs, known as the "Doom Flight", took off from Barksdale AFB in Louisiana to help kick off the air campaign. They performed a flight that lasted 35 hours and took them almost halfway around the world to launch 35 CALCMs and then go back home. The routes of the missiles were planned so that they would impact almost simultaneously, and 33 of them hit their assigned targets. That same day, the B-52G followed up this strike with the first low-level attacks conducted by the type after decades of training. Buffs swept into Iraqi airspace at an altitude of 90 meters (300 feet) to pound four airbases and a highway.

With Iraqi air defenses disabled, the B-52Gs then returned to high-altitude bombing, with three-ship formations pounding Iraqi troops concentrations in Iraq with 340 kilogram (750 pound) bombs and cluster bombs. The B-52 performed 1,600 sorties in the Gulf War and dropped 22,725 tonnes (25,000 tons) of munitions.

[2.0] B-52 At War (http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avb52_2.html)

Major James Riggens, USAF also highlights the initial low-level phase in the following.

'Brilliant Attack: The Need For Autonomous Standoff Weapons in Airfield Attack Missions'

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA293645&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

See also accounts online of low level operations - B-52 Stratofortress Units in Operation Desert Storm by Jon Lake

John Ritter, a 42nd BW pilot who flew with the the 4300th BW(P), recalled that, "We sent representatives up to Riyadh to advise the central air planners on how best to use our aeroplane. 'We wanted to fly low, preferably at night, protected by fighters and radar jamming aircraft. In the end, the planners decided that the B-52s would 'sneak in below radar cover for the first few nights and then go high bombing when it was safer'. Heavy casualties were expected according to John Ritter.
.....

'I flew several mission after that one - each is notable in its own way. Some nights the flak was so intense I felt I could have walked on it. Other nights, I just wanted to rain bombs down on the enemy, like the night Navy Lt Jeffrey Zaun appeared beaten on Iraqi TV. None, however, can compare to that first mission because of the way it changed us.'

Whatever the reason , Brig Gen 'Buster' Glosson soon ordered that all coalition aircraft should observe a minimum attack level of 12,000 ft.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9rVZ8SAnYEQC&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=B-52+Stratofortress+Units+in+Operation+Desert+Storm+by+Jon+Lak e+low


Account by EF-111 pilot on 17th January 1991 providing the jamming for strike packages. He highlights the following '10 F-111Fs and 2 Mud-Eagles (F-15Es) were coming in on the deck against two different targets.'

See online pages of 'F-15E Strike Eagle in Combat 1991-2005 by Steve Davies'

F-15E

On the first night of the war there were 21 F-15Es that went into Iraq. The original plan was for 18, but three more were added near the start time...... Once the refuelling was completed , we headed north and descended to low level.... We were all on the Terrain Following Radar at 200ft in radio silence - the pilots were hand-flying the TFR steering while concentrating on the FLIR picture in the HUD .....

More details at following link of the F-15E low level missions.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0MWKa3J3Cz8C&lpg=PA28&ots=M5rGRDzrdi&dq=On%20the%20first%20night%20of%20the%20war%20there%20were% 2021%20F-15Es%20that%20went%20into%20Iraq.&pg=PA29#v=onepage&q=On%20the%20first%20night%20of%20the%20war%20there%20were%2 021%20F-15Es%20that%20went%20into%20Iraq.&f=false

[petit plateau]

TEEJ, etc,

In the USA GAO report OPERATION DESERT STORM Evaluation of the Air Campaign (http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/ns97134.pdf)

it says in footnote 7 on p17

7 We interviewed pilots representing each type of aircraft evaluated, with the exception of British Tornados. The British government denied our requests to interview British pilots who had flown in Desert Storm.

Any idea why ? And what did the USA want to use for airfield strike in opening days other than JP233 given the forces available to the allies at the time ? Presumably nothing or they would have done it differently ?

regards, pp

[Trumpet_trousers]

One French Jaguar returned with its tail shredded

I remember seeing it after the event at one of the airfields we used to visit on our C130 round-robin. I recall being totally amazed that it managed to get back at all - IIRC it took a missile, which took out the number 2 engine :eek:

[Lima Juliet]

Off topic but relevant to SAM damage. i remember this whilst I was doing DENY FLIGHT over Bosnia:

Damaged French Etendard lands on Carrier - YouTube

One lucky Frenchman! :eek:

LJ

[NutLoose]

French Jaguar mentioned above damage

http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14948&stc=1&d=1076074158

image from

Any fighter plane which can survive Missile hit? (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?20958-Any-fighter-plane-which-can-survive-Missile-hit)



more

http://bdd.deltareflex.com/cns_affiche.php?image=7147


http://img1.pictaero.com/2011/05/25/s/121760.jpg

from

http://www.pictaero.com/fr/pictures/picture,121760

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1063761_10201474993780264_390255240_o.jpg

from

http://www.forcesdz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1504&p=100942

[jonw66]

Hi Leon
Would that be the Etendard that they fixed at Gioia.
We had the tyre bay in the hangar where they fixed it, the Starfighter hangar.
Was new year 94/95.
The French engineers brought a new back end down. Good guys.
Cheers
Jon

[Lima Juliet]

JW66

Not sure mate. I just remember hearing it and then watching it on the telly.

Anyway, back to GW1 (which I had a fleeting part in in Aug '90!)

LJ

[BEagle]

Trumpet_trousers wrote: Tut tut, such a second-rate establishment, you should have been downtown in the Sheraton (or was it the Hilton?)

Well, we started in the Hilton at Bahrain, then moved to the Holiday Inn (some tight git scammed breakfast included in the room cost). When the squadron relocated to KKIA, we indeed started off in the Sheraton in Riyadh, but then after the war started and there were no civvy pax needing the airport hotel, we moved there - and were 2 to a room. Much nearer the airport and easier to guard - and less exposure to the driving 'skills' of many of the locals.

There was an attempt to move us all into some wretched 'compound', but after it was learned that the septic tanks hadn't been emptied for 2 years - and a comment to the effect that "The damn place just needs an 'Arbeit macht frei' sign and a few goon boxes to complete the illusion!", that stupid idea was quietly dropped.

[Trumpet_trousers]

and less exposure to the driving 'skills' of many of the locals.
never mind the locals, our GE did his best to write us off outside the hotel when he lost control of the 'pimpmobile' :eek:

There was an attempt to move us all into some wretched 'compound', but after it was learned that the septic tanks hadn't been emptied for 2 years - and a comment to the effect that "The damn place just needs an 'Arbeit macht frei' sign and a few goon boxes to complete the illusion!", that stupid idea was quietly dropped. We may have been in the same compound! IIRC, mother nature being what it is, 50-odd of Aunty Betty's finest all heading for the 'small room' simultaneously in their respective 'bashas' had the effect of turning the ground into a foul smelling swamp! Someone got the Doc involved, who promptly declared it a health hazard, so Sheraton it was! (great prawn curry, btw! :ok:)

[just another jocky]

If memory serves, the F1-11 wing based in Turkey flew low level missions for the whole of the Op.

[Alber Ratman]

Jaguar A91 of EC11, damaged by an SA7 on the Al Jabar raid on the 17th of January 1991.


Some pictures from the raid. Low level daylight raid as well. Some lucky escapes indeed.


Mission de guerre : Al Jaber 17 Janvier 1991 | PILOTE de CHASSE 11 ème Escadre de chasse (http://www.pilote-chasse-11ec.com/mission-de-guerre-al-jaber-17-janvier-1991)

[TEEEJ]

Petit plateau wrote

And what did the USA want to use for airfield strike in opening days other than JP233 given the forces available to the allies at the time ? Presumably nothing or they would have done it differently ?

The USAF had the BLU-107 Durandal. There are claims that it was used by the US during the 1991 Gulf War but I've never seen any confirmation of this. Definately it was in the inventory but I've not seen any official confirmation of use.

Weasel Pilot
According to the USAF's Gulf War Air Power Survey, Vol 5, no Durandal were dropped during Desert Storm. I have found some errors in GWAPS, but have talked to several DS Vark crews and I believe this (no Durandal in DS) to be correct

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6669.0;nowap

The following is the reference widely quoted in likely error.

An evaluation of the unique Durandal "runway-buster" motor was performed at the Air Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory beginning in 1982. The 20th Fighter Wing first tested the Durandal runway-buster bombs during Exercise Red Flag in January and February 1988. During the 1991 Gulf War the 20th Fighter Wing, flew F-111Es from Turkey, initially in low level night attacks on airfields, using the Durandal anti-runway weapon. 20th Wing flight commander Captain George Kelman said "there is nothing better at destroying a runway than a Durandal."

BLU-107 Durandal - Dumb Bombs (http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-107.htm)

Noted fitted on F-15E and F-111

TooCats - Original Thoughts ? Matra (now MBDA) BLU-107/B Durandal - Anti-Runway... (http://toocatsoriginals.tumblr.com/post/105448783309/matra-now-mbda-blu-107-b-durandal-anti-runway)

Image links of Durandal at RAF Upper Heyford during late 1980s

http://www.raf-upper-heyford.org/20MMS/DF-ST-90-01987.jpg

http://www.raf-upper-heyford.org/20MMS/DF-ST-90-02045.jpg

From

20th Munitions Maintenance Squadron - RAF Upper Heyford, England (http://www.raf-upper-heyford.org/20th_MMS.html)

The USAF gave the Greeks the Durandals free of charge.

Some of free-of-charge deliveries to Greece in 1990-94 523 BLU-107 Durandal

Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies - ¹1, 1999 (January - February)<br>Transfers of the USA Surplus Weapons (http://www.cast.ru/eng/journal/1999/1-transfers/?form=print)

[petit plateau]

Thank you TEEJ. I too have seen no info that the Durandal was used.

[John Nichol]

In case anyone is interested, the episode of "We Were There" on Forces TV featuring some fine GR1 aviators from the first Gulf War in 1991 is repeated on Sunday 9pm. My old chums who feature:

Air Cdr Paddy Teakle
Air Cdr Dave Waddington
Wg Cdr Steve Barnes
Sqn Ldr Robbie Stewart

•Sky Channel 264
•Virgin 244
•Freesat 652