Best Place in the Middle East now for B777 F/O to start

[Gander_Radio]

Hello all,

I am relatively new here. I would like to get the input of people who have been working in the Middle East for a long time and can guide me to what they think is the best place to start as a B777 F/O? I am choosing from the big 3 in the ME. :ugh:

Thanks in advance,

Gander

[Flyboy_SG]

1.QR
2.EY
3.EK

in that order....considering faster Left seat.

[fleu]

And salary wise?

[Chocks Away]

777 Salary & rostering?
ET OR SV!

[Gander_Radio]

I appreciate the replies.

Considering best place to live?

Doha, AD, Dubai??

Ill probably be there for a long time and more likely than not will start a family there someday?. So if I'm willing to wait a couple of years for the left seat but have a relatively nicer place to live and environment,

What would be the order in your opinion??

Thanks people!

[Airmann]

Dubai is best for infrastructure and living. After that Abu Dhabi and Doha in that order.

EK is probably worst for roster. Don't know about EY 777 rosters but since both EY and QR have narrow bodies the wide bodies are predominately doing long haul with lay overs.

EK is also worst for upgrade, unless you are on the fast track option, but then again I wouldn't trust any guarantees, this place will only let you down. All three. Whatever people tell you always assume the worst. I always find it funny when guys believe the crap that management feed them. You usually meet them down the line sometime later only for them to look startled at the fact that they were lied to. Serves you right for believing crap.

I think EY seems to treat their staff the best. Followed by EK and then QR, who don't seem to like the idea that pilots exist, and just put up with them because they have to.

So to summarize:

Treatment of Pilots
1. EY
2. EK
3. QR

Upgrade (Normal Track):
1. QR
2. EY
3. EK

Location:
1. EK
2. EY (Some may argue that Abu Dhabi is better since rents are lower and Dubai is ultimately just one hour away, its subjective)
3. QR

Rosters:
1. QR/EY (Don't know really about EY but cannot be worse than EK)
2. EK

Assuming I give 3 points for first place, 1 point for second and no points for third,

EK: 5
QR: 6
EY: 8

[Gander_Radio]

@Airmann Thank you for a detailed analysis of the situation. Things are a lot clearer now.

Treatment is very important if you plan on staying there for a long time I guess, but then again it might change. I am sure treatment of pilots at EK wasn't the same as it is today 7 years ago.

[cucuotto]

The best place in the Middle East is out of it.

[LowPassGliderA330]

Agree with cucuotto, there are certainly better places. And if you have a job, stay out of EK.

[Chocks Away]

Yes and there's one thing to always keep in mind... people leave a Management, not an Airline.
Your interviews are a great chance to evaluate those who are assessing you and whether you wish to work for them.
The tide has definitely turned and there are a huge number of positions going everywhere. What roster pattern also do you wish to work with? For me it is really a key question... no flight deck time limits but max duty limits; 8 hours max flight deck time; min rest overnights under "exemptions" or ULH overnight rests following stipulated rules. It makes a huge difference, so happy hunting and happy landings:ok:

[Flying738ng]

Requesting guys to provide more info on
SV and EY
1. Upgrade to left seat
2. Roster
3. Annual leave
Thankyou

[olster]

QR / ET / EK

[Payscale]

Don't make career decision based on pprune. If you do, you deserve what you get. Travel to all cities and spend a day or two. Rosters and T&Cs change with demand. Good luck

[donpizmeov]

Don't mess with Darwinism Payscale.

[White Knight]

Anyone who puts QR first needs to see a head doctor... The treatment of staff there is far worse than anything that happens elsewhere in the Gulf. And that's saying something!!!

[fleu]

White Knight, how is the treatment different from EY or EK?

[LHR Rain]

The pay is much better at QR and the working hours are much less than at EK. That in itself is pretty good treatment.
I don't want to speak for White but he might be referring to Doha to live in. Keep in mind though that you could possibly upgrade in 2 years, 3 years max and make more money as a captain sooner. Meanwhile back at EK you will still be an FO after 8 plus years in Dubai. You better enjoy the lifestyle a whole lot all the while living on FO wages.

[paokara]

8 years to upgrade at EK?

No way......a lot less than that

[White Knight]

I am indeed mainly talking about Doha... I visited once and that was quite enough! Very expensive and the infrastructure lags far behind Dubai and Abu Dhabi... The few guys I know at QR would far rather be at EK; but then again, as we see from the posts and threads in this forum, the grass is ALWAYS greener!

[White Knight]

And I do know that 380 FOs are starting upgrades now at 5 years service in EK...

[LHR Rain]

Pilots are upgrading Today in 5 years but what about someone getting hired in the next few months? No way is it under 7 years and depending on what fleet you are on it might be as long as 9-10 years.
Almost 3800 pilots now. When EK goes above approx 7600 pilots that is when a new hire pilot will get his upgrade. A very long way out time wise.

[White Knight]

Very true LHR rain, but there are a lot of leavers so it seems... At the moment anyway! Equally one could say the same inertia will hit both QR and EY... I still maintain that if you wish to come to the ME to fly then EK is the best long term bet. Current mismanagement notwithstanding...

[LHR Rain]

The other ME airlines won't reach critical mass for at least a decade so a pilot is far better joining the other airlines besides EK.
Yes some pilots are leaving and probably many more after the screw us (AGAIN!) in May but not enough to move the upgrade time in anymore than a few months. If and that is a big IF Emirates has a 100 pilots leave that is less than a years' worth of upgrade positions.
The only good thing EK has going for itself at this point is Dubai is better than the capital and Doha which really isn't saying much. The airline ops side all favours the other two airlines and the way Emirates is attracting pilots at this point my points are validated.

[SOPS]

Just my 2 cents worth for those considering.mwhen I came here almost 9 years ago, it was a great job, in fact ( as far as I thought, close to the best job ever).

Things have changed, and changed downhill, at times slowly, at times quickly, to the point we are at now.

All I say is, do your homework, and don't believe everything they tell you at the road shows and at interviews.

And really really think about how you will handle 92 hours a month, long haul, back of the clock, minum recovery time, month after month.
And if you think you will get your 42 days leave every year, think again. Well you might get them, but in 4 day blocks.....

Just think

[Flying738ng]

Its great to get such reviews, gives you a good understanding of the region, still havent read much on this forum for Saudia,
Requesting fellow airmen to share their views on the same

[polax52]

Saudia remains a very big question mark regarding upgrades. There is no history of Saudia upgrading foreign F/O's and there are around 650 local F/O's who need to be upgraded.

[mutt]

still havent read much on this forum for Saudia Probably less than 10% of the 1600 Saudia pilots are expats, and a smaller % of them are native English speakers, so its unlikely that they would browse an English based forum.

So good luck with your quest :)

[mutt]

There is no history of Saudia upgrading foreign F/O's Yes there is...... they transitioned from the B747C to the ERJ for 500 hours in the right seat prior to going into the left seat, some made it, others didn't.

The next group of senior expat FO's are due an upgrade, they have about 9 years seniority.