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pilot2013
5th Mar 2015, 17:36
UK CAA PPL A holder with an SEP rating that expired nearly 3 years ago.




Not sure if I should bother renewing it for the sake of renewing it as I cannot afford to fly GA anymore since the recession started. My job changed and lets just say I earn a lot less than I did 10 years ago. I am not in the GA scene anymore and I am wondering that mabey I should just dump my PPL and forget about it because if I do go to the trouble of a couple hours refresher training with a skill test after, I will end up back where I started waiting another few years just to renew it again. (Part of me dreams of some how having the money one day to pay for a CPL and try my luck as a First Officer!!!)


Should I forget flying a Cessna 152? I only earn £11,000 a year and renewing that rating would mean living on packets of noodles in my cold flat for a while.
Cheers for any advice.. mabey someone has been here before!

Whiskey Kilo Wanderer
5th Mar 2015, 18:25
Hi,

Things don’t sound too wonderful for you at the moment, but hopefully it will improve. If your licence is a ‘poo brown’ CAA PPL (and not a JAR FCL licence) then it’s for life and you can pick up the SEP Rating again if/when finances and motivation return.

If you can find a local group of pilots, either LAA or some ad-hoc gathering, you might find that it’s possible to get the odd flight in as a pax. This might be in exchange for helping with the aircraft etc. most pilots are amenable to a sob story about being skint and wanting to keep one’s hand in. While you can’t put anything in your logbook (well, you can write what ever you like in your logbook, but it won’t be relevant for re-igniting your SEP) it might keep your hand in with GA and reduce the time to get back up to speed for the SEP renewal.

Good luck, hope things improve soon.

Whopity
6th Mar 2015, 07:31
Why throw the licence away, you can always renew the rating when you can afford to do it. The requirement is the same whenever you do it, you will just need more training the longer you wait.

rusty sparrow
6th Mar 2015, 08:39
I was in exactly the same position, also with a poo brown PPL (A). Over 40 as a redundant engineer resulted very little money so a break from flying of over ten years. I got back to work in a different career but couldn't justify the cost of flying. Then I had a flight in a Tiger Moth and shortly afterwards did about three hours refresher and a GFT to get my licence back.

I now fly LAA aircraft to keep the costs down. Just keep your dream of flying alive and you'll get back to it. Don't give up :)

BillieBob
6th Mar 2015, 09:19
If your licence is a ‘poo brown’ CAA PPL (and not a JAR FCL licence) then it’s for life and you can pick up the SEP Rating again if/when finances and motivation return.Since 8 April 2012, all JAA licences are deemed to be EASA licences, which are also non-expiring.

Maoraigh1
6th Mar 2015, 09:49
I got my PPL in August 1964, and stopped flying in March 1965 for financial reasons. I retrained to regain my PPL in April 1987, when I could afford to fly regularly, and have flown 1900 hours solo since. It's purely a financial decision for you.

300hrWannaB
6th Mar 2015, 20:16
OK, so you are short of money at the moment.

Like you I had a CAA PPL (A), and didn't fly for 7 years. I deliberately quit after finding myself scud running, for the sake of my young family.
Getting the licence valid again took.....3 flights. 2x training flights and a test. Sure, they worked a sweat out of me, but I surprised myself. It's like cycling. You don't forget everything overnight.

Suggestions? Visit the local gliding club. Get some wind under your wings cheaply. It only costs a bit of time and a tenner or two.

thing
6th Mar 2015, 20:32
It only costs a bit of time

I'll go along with the tenner or two but it costs more than a bit of time..

MrAverage
7th Mar 2015, 10:28
BillieBob !

The majority of JAA licences, although deemed to be Part FCL, actually have only a five year validity. The last ones issued will run out in three years.

BillieBob
7th Mar 2015, 11:05
Yes, but but the point is that they will be re-issued as EASA licences at any time after expiry if you have a valid class rating. In practice, therefore, there is little difference between re-activating a national PPL and a JAA/EASA one.

pilot2013
7th Mar 2015, 11:30
My Brown UK CAA JAR PPL A license expires in a number of months!! Yikes.
The SEP and the license dates are very close to each other. Damn so I also need a new brown book. More money!! And the R/T licence date!!!!!!!!!!!


Thank you all for the above replies and advice. It is very welcome and makes me feel positive when I read them.

Whiskey Kilo Wanderer
7th Mar 2015, 18:54
Hi Pilot 2013,

The good news is that your shiny new EASA PPL will be valid for life (as mentioned above) so that particular five yearly cost won’t come around again.

One quick warning, if you have any Ratings (TMG, IMCr, Night etc) they should be valid when you change from JAR to EASA. If you have an invalid rating it will appear on the back of the new licence and it will cost you an additional fee to the CAA to get it revalidated in the future. All valid Ratings are transferred to your new EASA licence on issue and are covered in the cost of the new licence.

If you do get a ‘poo brown’ book from the CAA you should complain. The new licences come with a blue folder, usually called a ‘blue book’ to differentiate it from the old licence. Your new EASA licence will comprise sheet(s) of paper and the blue ‘book’ with lots of clear envelopes inside. On no account cut up your new (A4-ish) EASA licence to fit in the plastic envelopes, logical and tempting though it may be. That renders the licence invalid and you will have to get the CAA to print you a new one, for a fee naturally…..

Good luck with your Licence & SEP

Safe Flying.

Curlytips
7th Mar 2015, 20:26
Yes the blue folder has lots of pockets suitable for all the sections of your new EASA paperwork, plus medical. So simply photocopy the originals, chop up the copies and populate the folder. Keep the originals safe at home. You are required to carry your licence, but no one will fault you for a copy if ramp - checked (and it's never happened to me in 30 years flying). Add a reduced copy of your passport or maybe your AOPA crew card, so that you also have the photo-id that is required. Simples.

Cusco
7th Mar 2015, 22:55
A photocopy of a licence is not valid, so a chopped up copy of a licence is even less valid.

Just fold the original licence and shove it in one pocket as the CAA intended:

I takes a lot less time to remove and examine one sheet of A4 than to flick through 8 pockets (you actually need 8 pockets if you are going to be able to see both sides of 8 bits without removing any from their pockets.)

If you shove two cut 1/8th sheets to a pocket to save space you'll need to pull them both out to inspect both sides (even if most are blank) for your ramp check. That will really please the humourless Dutch fuzz.

I really don't get this obsession to fill every pocket in the blue book.

Cusco

flybymike
7th Mar 2015, 23:11
Why so many pockets I wonder.....

mrmum
8th Mar 2015, 07:39
.....because almost everybody at Gatwick who had much idea what they were doing left? Did you ever try getting an answer to a difficult question out of them around the adoption of part-FCL? :ugh::ugh::ugh:
So you'd imagine some admin person just looked at the format of the EASA licences, saw all those nice page numbers on it, then assumed that each of them would be a separate piece of paper and made a wallet with a pocket for each of them.

Whopity
8th Mar 2015, 12:45
Why so many pockets I wonder.....
The same wallet is used for every licence now, and some licence holders have more pieces of paper than others.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
8th Mar 2015, 13:05
Well I have a poo-brown non-expiring CAA licence dating from 1978. It seems if I wish to convert to one of those EASA thingies I have to prove my competence in using the English language, despite all my tests, checkouts, biennials etc etc since my first flying lesson being conducted in that language. Oh, and my RT licence, the test for which I passed in 1978, and was conducted by a Manchester ATCO was also (surprise surprise) conducted in English.

I understand if I do not convert to EASA I cannot fly the likes of the Cessnas and things I did my PPL on all those decades ago. I can still fly the likes of Chipmunks and Yaks though, so that's all right! :ok:

pilot2013
8th Mar 2015, 22:34
If I don't fly and I let my sep expire more than 36 months and I left my brown jar licence uk Caa expire aswell and say in a few years I want to fly again do I have to do the full 45 hours again from scratch? Thank you

BEagle
8th Mar 2015, 22:53
pilot2013 - no.

You'll just need to hold the medical for the licence you wish to obtain, do whatever refresher training you need and pass an SEP Class Rating renewal proficiency check with an examiner.

pilot2013
9th Mar 2015, 14:04
Thank you BEagle.


I seem to remember though something (cannot find it in CAP 804) that if you let your SEP rating lapse and then do not renew it within 60 months of the date of its last renewal then you basically have to do the whole 45 Hour PPL course again or something much worse than simply refresher training and a test? or was that the old CAA LASORS JAR PPL way and now with EASA things have changed..


So really, If I let my brown licence lapse (that runs out soon as well) I do not need to panic because even if I let the Brown JAR UK CAA PPL go along with the SEP rating which I last renewed in 2010 that means that worse come to worse I can get a new PPL and SEP rating in X years again by not doing the exams and 45 hours but simply by just refresher training and a test?

Cusco
11th Mar 2015, 16:48
Why so many pockets I wonder.....

Well: if you're too lazy to fish out and unfold a single sheet of A4 to show the licence and feel the need to chop it into 8 bits , you're gonna want to chop your medical up into 8 bits as well. I guess....

Cusco

BillieBob
12th Mar 2015, 00:26
I seem to remember though something (cannot find it in CAP 804) that if you let your SEP rating lapse and then do not renew it within 60 months of the date of its last renewal then you basically have to do the whole 45 Hour PPL course againI'm not sure what you've been smoking but that was never the case, whether under EASA, the JAA or the UK CAA. All you have ever needed to resurrect an expired licence is a valid medical and a valid type rating (and, in the case of an ATPL(A) or ATPL/IR(H), a valid IR). Where do these idiot rumours come from?

pilot2013
12th Mar 2015, 18:47
BillieBob, thanks for your reassurance. I just remember something in the LASORS about letting the SEP go more than 5 years, that it was a real pain to get it back..something to that affect.. anyways!


I have read in the CAP that all UK-CAA JAR brown book physical licenses must be replaced by no later than 8th April 2018 (In my case that would be July 2015 so!!!!)


But!!! What if I do not want to renew my SEP and leave it a few years and I miss the 2018 deadline (or 2015 in my case) does that mean than that I am screwed and I have to do the 45hrs again.


Sorry for harping on about this. I just want to know all my options. Thanks again so much for all your help and advice.

Prop swinger
12th Mar 2015, 19:27
No, you're not screwed. Currently all licences & associated ratings earned before the end of the derogation period can be converted to EASA licences, there is no time limit for conversion.

cherokeephil
16th Mar 2015, 21:49
agree shaggy sheep driver

I can still fly the likes of Chipmunks and Yaks though, so that's all right!

yes, I picked up on that recently too.....so much confusion re validation
Haven't flown for around 8 years due to finances and limiting my flying to once every 2 to 3 months
I got disallusioned having a check out every 6 to 8 weeks if you had not been airborne, certainly spoils the fun of it all
Mind you, If we opt out of this dreaded EU,we might get back to norm and keep using our hard fought for brown Group A PPL licence
If not am certainly not paying the CAA for a new licence for the priviledge of flying a cherokee/cessna etc which I am already experienced on..............it's comlete lunacy
Well if it comes to it, i'll keep my prized original 1980 PPL and go fly chipmunks or something else