Sqn Ldr to Police Superintendent

[dctyke]

Military man Adam ?coming home? for top police job in North Yorkshire - Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/features/military-man-adam-coming-home-for-top-police-job-in-north-yorkshire-1-6997179)

Well done that man....... Although my local police inspector is not impressed.

[polyglory]

Good luck and fair winds, if he can do the job brilliant.

its the season all year round to get rid of the dormant driftwood, far too many around in the harbours:rolleyes:

[MightyGem]

Although my local police inspector is not impressed.
Can't say I blame him. How would it be if a Police Superintendent come across to the RAF as a Squadron Leader?

[Tankertrashnav]

If he came into the Security Branch*, and underwent some fairly basic military training, I wouldnt see a problem.

From Rock to cop - nice move!

*(Do we still have a Security Branch - I'm a bit out of date!)

[Tashengurt]

At least these people might introduce some original thinking.

[Old-Duffer]

Funny old job.

My RAFVR(T) boss is a police superintendent in his day job and a wing commander in the evenings/weekend!

Yonks ago, I served with a guy called George Richards. He left the RAF at his 38/16 point in 1974 and returned to somewhere exotic - think: "Murder in Paradise" - and played the Don Warrington role as chief of police.

Old Duffer

[Helen49]

At senior management levels, people move around industries and bring their management skills not their knowledge of the particular industry. Sounds like an excellent idea.

[jayteeto]

No no no no no, that isn't true. A Superintendent needs to understand the grass roots job. The reason that the police force is in such disarray (and believe me it is) is because a few years ago they introduced a 'fast track' graduate system. The current middle management are making crazy decisions that are affecting front line policing.
How do I know?? My missus has been with Merseyside Police for 12 years, I have experienced the crass stupidity of how her job has evolved; MBA 'business' models introduced, targets etc etc. I won't even list examples here, because you would simply not believe me. Imagine David Brent crossed with Tony Blair crossed with Robert Mugabe. Times 1000, 24/7, 365 days a year.
When they demanded calling arrested criminals 'customers' so as to not hurt their feelings, I started to crinkle.

[jayteeto]

Of interest, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner has risen through the ranks, spending time in every role on the way. He STILL regularly puts the body armour on and gets out on the street. He has been known to get his 'hands on' a suspect in the course of those duties. OK, a lot of it is for show, but he still does it. He hasn't forgotten what his actual job is. A manager brought in with no 'street' experience has zero credibility.

[Tashengurt]

Jayteeto, I disagree. The upper ranks of the Police are swollen by people who, despite coming up the ranks are far removed from the realities of front line policing.
I think people from other industries could give the managers ( I won't dignify them with the title leaders) a real wake up call and demonstrate some up to date management skills.

[1.3VStall]

MightyGem,

In the early 1970s the RAF Engineering Branch recruited a number of direct entry sqn ldrs, it didn't seem to ruffle too many feathers!

[Wrathmonk]

I suppose a similar policy (in reverse) would be to recruit full time flt cdrs (and even the sqn cdr) for 10 Squadron directly from the airlines. Perhaps start advertising the station commander posts to external candidates. After all, many people on here seem to think military management (from sqn ldr upwards) is screwed up so why not offer it up to open competition! :E

[Jimlad1]

Interestingly, from April, all Civil Service 1* posts that are being recruited for will be open to external recruitment. Given at this level its as much about management and business skills as it is technical knowledge, could a reasonable argument be made that mil 1* posts outside of direct operational areas be subject to the same requirement?

I think there is a deeply compelling case for reform to the wider military HR system, which is one of the only areas left where you can only enter at the bottom and work up, without any real sense of being able to bring good talent in at the right point.

[RUCAWO]

Well as Gold Command during a major public order incident he could be very useful, having trained and worked with RAFP and Regiment in those situations it was..............fun ;) they were nearly as good as we were :E
But he will have an uphill task convincing those below him of his knowledge, he will need to get out with the response crews to learn the basics.

[Tashengurt]

he will need to get out with the response crews to learn the basics.

I get the feeling he'll be up for that!

[teeteringhead]

At least he was Regt and not RAFP! :eek:

Hat ..... coat ........ stabvest ......

[Old-Duffer]

A couple of observations.

The 1970s experiment in the Eng and Supply branches did not delay promotions for others by too much. Instant sqn ldrs or Greenshield stamp sqn ldrs generally had suitable experience outside, some were ex-service anyway and many were able to rely on their natural charm and ability to help integrate.

As to the police. The met police college stands on a part of RAF Hendon given to them in 1930 something when Trenchard was called in to sort out the Met. Furthermore, there were a number of senior police officers who were military but of course very many in that era had fought in the war.

Old Duffer

[jindabyne]

A very good local friend of mine is a retired Super, ex-Head of Lancs CID. We often banter about our relative ex-standings, Police v RAF. As a past Wg Cdr, I assert that the equivalent of his rank would be a Flt Lt at most, and that he really should refer to me as 'sir'. Well at least he usually ends up buying the Grouse!

[EngAl]

Slight thread drift, but in the early eighties we had an hon member of the Fylingdales mess who was a superintendent in Whitby. He was a great chap who fitted in well, especially when he wore his DFC to mess dinners. He had war service followed by a full police career. Ginger Lacey was an hon member too!

[pohm1]

From what I hear from service friends and police force friends, he's getting out of the frying pan and into the fire.

P1

[Helen49]

With the ability to acquire Squadron Leader status he should be bright enough to assimilate the knowledge of ‘grass roots’ policing without the need to have started as a constable. I would imagine that the Police Service are well able to organise training which will enable him to grasp the ‘grass roots’ problems.

He will bring with him natural leadership skills together with management techniques learned in another walk of life. It happens all the time in all industries and professions. Why should it be any different in the police Service?

Not that I am denigrating the skills brought by the guy who started ‘at the bottom’ and worked his/her way up through the ranks/industry. Both should have plenty to offer when they achieve management status and should provide that ‘breath of fresh air’ or that ‘new broom’ so often needed at the top.

There’s more than one way to skin a cat.....as they say!!

[gsa]

There’s more than one way to skin a cat.....as they say!!

But that's only if your previous experience in the job gives you the inkling that the cat needs to be skinned in the first place.

[langleybaston]

Its not actually a step up in rank, is it?

In passing, I remember that we often had senior police officers, and fire officers, in the Mess at Leeming c. 1965. They seemed, dare I say, not to sparkle compared with the members.

[Danny42C]

In years gone by, it was not unusual for Chief Constable Posts to be filled by retired senior Army officers. In the '50s, we had a Major Egan (?) as Chief Constable in Middlesbrough.

"Experiences of an Irish R.M.", by Somerville and Ross, was a very good read (and was later turned into a successful TV series). Of course, Resident Magistrates (in the days when Ireland was ruled from Dublin Castle) were not exactly the same thing, but the priciple was the same.

D.

[Melchett01]

If the only criticism is that he hasn't risen through the ranks, does that mean the military has it wrong by permitting direct entry and graduate commissions?

I'm sure there are some old and bold that would say yes, but on balance it doesn't seem to have done the military too much harm. So just who has the right idea? Do you really need to be able to do to 100% if your role is going to be managing a broad portfolio where you might only need to know and understand the key 50% of issues?

[teeteringhead]

And most airline CEOs manage quite well without ATPLs.

Another oddity (climbs aboard a Teetering hobby horse) is the number of ranks.

The Met (with just about the same number in uniform as the RAF) manage with 11 ranks, which is two more than most constabularies.

The RAF seem to have 8 or 10 non-commissioned ranks (depending whether you count SAC(T)s and L Cpl Rocks) and then 10 or 11 officer ranks (depending whether you count Lord Jock's 5th star).

Nearly twice as many ranks - why ??? :confused:

[Edited to add:]

Some Police Forces used to have direct officer entry as "Sub Inspectors" with one pip, which is why an Inspector has two.