ATSB Aviation Commissioner.

[Frank Arouet]

It seems Chris Manning got the job. A capable sort of bloke and should do well.

[Ozdork]

Is he the ex QF chief pilot?
Edit: to answer my own question, yes.
So new question to QF drivers: What was CM like as a boss? Is this a good move? (Methinks anyone with aviation experience would be better than the current setup)

[Wunwing]

Prior to his Chief Pilot job he was AIPA President.

Wunwing

[CaptCloudbuster]

I remember seeing him shortly after his departure from QF in the SYD Dom terminal dressed immaculately in a suit. I recall thinking at the time how lonely he looked..... It must require rare qualities to go from AIPA President to QF Chief Pilot.

[Soteria]

Manning is ok. At least the ATSB will now have somebody who understands safety and aviation. That's a good starting point. He also understands what politics is about plus he is used to working with an assortment of executive wa#kers at the top so that should also be an advantage to him. I just hope that he has an affinity for counting buckets of coins and stretching the dollar afar because the Deputy Prime Minister and poster boy for bad skin plus MrDak are very budget conscious when it comes to safety.
Any word on where the incompetent beardless one is going? Comcare? A foreign aid program? Replacement for Joe Hockey?

Best of luck Chris. Please punt the other two non-aviation Commissioners and Jules Verne while you are at it mate and keep clear of those Westwinds. Cheers

[Wunwing]

CC.
Actually for a long time AIPA President was a normal progression on the way to QF Flight Ops Management.

Having worked with Chris in his AIPA roles I think that he has the right credentials to take on the DOT and Ministerial "heavies". He certainly knows the whole scene and the personalities very well and he doesn't owe anybody anything.

[vianostra]

From the ATSB site:


"The re-opened investigation is being conducted by an experienced team of ATSB investigators who have expertise in flight operations, human factors, organisational factors, air traffic control and cabin safety, and who were not part of the original investigation team. Oversight of the investigation team and lines of reporting to the ATSB Commissioners for the re-opened investigation have also been changed from the original investigation."


Is this new "ATSB Aviation Commissioner" (still to be announced?) an addition to the existing three commissioners including the existing discredited Chief Commissioner?

[COM Cleaner]

Wunwing,

As one who worked with him in AIPA and tried to work with him when he became CP, suffice it to say that your glowing endorsement of Manning is not universally shared. Some might suggest that integrity is not his strong point and others might suggest that he is not entirely independent of the Chairman of Pelair who may have even lobbied for his appointment.

Given that the rumour is that ATSB Commissioner is second prize for keeping him away from CASA, you have to wonder about Truss' judgement in supporting McComic for DG ICAO and Manning for the ATSB :ugh: :yuk: :ugh:

[The Banjo]

Is he the bloke who stood up in front of a room full of Jetstar pilots and told them they could never join AIPA because they are not Qantas pilots:confused::confused:

[Frank Arouet]

COM Cleaner: Check you PM's.

[neville_nobody]

Is he the bloke who stood up in front of a room full of Jetstar pilots and told them they could never join AIPA because they are not Qantas pilots

Yep and then magically becomes the CP.........

[Wunwing]

I am no apologist for Chris and anybody who knows my history within the AIPA Exec would know that we disagreed on many things. However for some time on this site there has been constant negative comment on the current team running the ATSB and CASA. In particular there has been much criticism of both teams lack of appropriate prior experience.Finally the industry gets an ATSB Commissioner with line flying,union and upper management,political and no RAAF experience and in typical PPRune fashion we get "stuck into him" even though he has all the background that we say is needed.

How about we do something unusual on PPrune and wait to see how he and the ATSB perform before we start the negative comments?

[Frank Arouet]

Does AIPA and AFAP work well together? CAsA appear to be fairly well embedded in the AFAP camp. Maybe the agro will continue?


But to repeat my opening post, "It seems Chris Manning got the job. A capable sort of bloke and should do well".

[COM Cleaner]

Ahhh Wunwing,

Good to see that 'not one minute of RAAF time' is now a valid selection criterion, ROFLMAO

As for performance, he will prove to be as effective as Cosgrove was on the QF Board and equally as eagle-eyed looking for the next step up in the world.


Frank,

There is nothing left of the Manning influence at AIPA and there hasn't been for some time. The AIPA-AFAP tango is conducted to a far different orchestral backing these days.

[Wunwing]

Where did the "not one minute of RAAF time" come from? What I said was that Chris had "no RAAF time".This was in reference to the list of attributes or lack of, constantly complained about on PPrune. It is not my list, its a compendium of the PPRune criteria which current incumbents have or dont have.

From my perspective given the recent CASA appointment with a RAAF background I see it as a good thing if this is countetred in the ATSB with someone with no service experience.

Anyone reading this thread would come to the conclusion from these posts that no one is suitable for a senior CASA or ATSB position and what we have had over the last few years is probably as good as we ever will get.

[Lookleft]

There were many who decided that AVM Skidmore was going to be a mere puppet of the real men in power but he seems to have already asserted his authority with the Angel Flight decision. CM is not replacing Dolan he is just going to provide some aviation experience on the ATSB Executive. I doubt he will have a hands on role in the day to day running of the place and I doubt he will have any more authority over the Chief Commissioner than the other Commissioners do. Hopefully CM will be able to tell Dolan that a report like the PelAir report is not good enough and then be able to explain why.

[busdriver007]

CM's best mate John Sharp won't let him criticise anything REX! Ask CM's course mates at QF what they thought of him. He wasn't invited to the reunions. Hopefully the Chief Commissioner(yet to be named)is a man of moral fibre! Truss continues to be a poor judge of character, first Peter Cosgrove, now Chris Manning. Skidmore needs to be more than a figurehead.

[aroa]

If CM has to explain to Doolan that the Pelair report is not up to scratch and why, then Doolan is obviously as thick as concrete block if he hasnt yet figured it out for himself.
That block should be used as a boat anchorage beside the Westwind while the boxes are recovered.:ok:
Then he might ?just get the message.

[hiwaytohell]

FWIW
Chris's political acumen, would be a definite advantage in this role. Having dealt with him outside of Qantas I feel he is a good choice.

[Torres]

"Truss continues to be a poor judge of character..."

Not at all when the principal criteria is to keep his name out of the media!

One day - maybe - it will all come crashing down on him, but then again, that other useless Minister Anderson survived almost unscathed!

[Arm out the window]

From my perspective given the recent CASA appointment with a RAAF background I see it as a good thing if this is countetred in the ATSB with someone with no service experience.


Maybe 'complemented' might be a better word then 'countered', after all, it's not unknown for the two branches of aviation to be graced or cursed (as appropriate) with individuals who have been involved in both. Not mutually exclusive, is what I'm sayin' ...

[dr dre]

I think what he means is that appointments to senior aviation manager positions in Australia don't end up becoming an Old Boys (and Girls) Club

[Sunfish]

LookLeft:

There were many who decided that AVM Skidmore was going to be a mere puppet of the real men in power but he seems to have already asserted his authority with the Angel Flight decision. CM is not replacing Dolan he is just going to provide some aviation experience on the ATSB Executive. I doubt he will have a hands on role in the day to day running of the place and I doubt he will have any more authority over the Chief Commissioner than the other Commissioners do. Hopefully CM will be able to tell Dolan that a report like the PelAir report is not good enough and then be able to explain why.

I am saddened by your continuing optimistic efforts to avoid the obvious conclusions arising out of the Pel AIr matter, the Senate review. the colour blindness problems, the continuing Quixotic attempts by CASA to rewrite Australian aviation regulations and a host of other troubling matters, starting with anomalous political donations by an airline and including the attempted appointment of the former DAS to an international aviation body.

Given the prior behaviour of CASA, the simplest explanation for CASAs decision (for now) to avoid a direct confrontation with Angel Flight has nothing to do with the appointment of a White Night, AVM. Skidmore, and everything to do with the cowardly avoidance by CASA of a direct public confrontation with a well liked charity with excellent PR skills.

To put that another way if CASA has hard evidence that Angel Flight is a real threat to "safety" I would expect CASA to act fearlessly and immediately to close it down right now. Instead CASA has slithered away knowing that it can try again after the next Angel Flight incident.

As for Chris Manning "telling Dolan that the Pel AIr report is not good enough" don't be childish. The Pel Air report looks like a steaming pile of shyte that was deliberately concocted by Dolan and his acolytes to shield a subsidiary of a company with deep political links from any commercial damage and this saga is ongoing.

Mannings appointment to ATSB is just like Skidmores to CASA; attempts to put an acceptable faces on Two, now totally corrupt and dishonest institutions.

The fact that Skidmore and now Manning decided to lend their reputations to these organisations, knowing that they have no hope of reforming them, is to put it mildly, troubling.

[Lookleft]

I am not sure why you have decided to single my post out Sunny from the many that are here but I also note that a lot of your statements in the past about CASA issues have been wrong. Such as how PM&C would clean CASA up if they continued to embarass the government and recently how the Karen Casey case would be settled out of court. I'm not sure why you consider your insight regarding the Angel Flight issue is sharper than anyone elses but if the so called Iron Ring was that powerful then it would have been irrelevant what AVM Skidmore wanted. I think that it is more than coincidence that his appointment has led to a major backdown on an issue CASA went in hard and heavy on.

As to CM, he is no fool and yes, I still think that if he had been doing the Aviation Commissioner's job when PelAir was first released (had that job been in existence of course) then it would not have been released in the form that it was.

The Pel Air report looks like a steaming pile of shyte that was deliberately concocted by Dolan and his acolytes to shield a subsidiary of a company with deep political links from any commercial damage and this saga is ongoing.

Mannings appointment to ATSB is just like Skidmores to CASA; attempts to put an acceptable faces on Two, now totally corrupt and dishonest institutions.


If you think CM would have put up with that then you may have to reconsider your accusation as to who is being childish.

No I won't put that another way because I give the reader credit for working out what I have written the first time.

[Sunfish]

Lookleft, I am the first to admit I'm often wrong about all sorts of things. I still believe P M & C could clean up CASA easily…if they have a mind to, I didn't say they were going to do so.

I also believe the Karen Casey matter, like almost all legal disputes, are better settled through negotiation out of court. This could, I believe, still happen.

You are free to think that AVM. Skidmore made CASA walk away from regulating Angel Flight, personally, as an old cynic with some experience in dealing with sacred cows, my instinct is that CASA knew it would have a very public fight on its hands if it tried.

As for the Pel Air report, I accuse you of wishful thinking. The report is not "just a bit wrong" and the result of a lack of due diligence by some lowly ATSB operator who was having an off day as you wish to suggest.

The Senate Committee process and the Truss review reveals that the Pel Air report is a very carefully concocted litany of lies, omissions and half truths. Further revelations of anomalous political donations beg the questions of transparency, bias and political interference.

To put that another way for you Lookleft, the integrity of the ATSB is now called into question.

To put that yet another way Lookleft, when I heard the reports of Dolans dissembling in Senate Estimates about his safety model and its classification schemes proving that Pel Air was a "minor incident" you know what I heard?

The answer is I heard me. As a management consultant in corporate strategy when I was a newly minted University of Melbourne MBA, I and my colleagues dreamed up and used all sorts of similar classification schemes to prove to our clients that we had superior methodology for solving their problems. Not to put too fine a point on it, we were talking BS and thats how I know so was Dolan.

As for Mr Manning, Two of my senior management appointments involved cleaning up corporate messes, but I always went in with my eyes wide open and with a Board behind me that was prepared (mostly) to allow me to clean out the stables.

For AVM. Skidmore or Mr Manning to enter CASA and ATSB respectively without similar guarantees of a free hand, freedom of action and a mandate for reform would in my opinion be foolhardy, unless of course they were invited in with the expectation they would provide window dressing while the dirty business went on as usual.

[actus reus]

I normally only hang around the test flight forum but this rabidness has certainly caught my attention.
So, I did some reading; about some of the so called; 'I have never seen the committee so united on this'; vintage Xenophon. Quinn et al by his side.
But there is no such comment in the Pel Air report that is under the signature of the chairman of that committee.
This sort of comment comes AFTER the unanimous committee findings under the heading of 'Further comments from Independent Senator Xenophon'.
AFP investigates 'withholding of information...'
Reading Hansard, there seems to be NO withholding. Mccormick said it had to be requested under 'Part 301' as per usual.
Dolan says that 'I knew of the existence of the report' and that everything in the report was 'already available to us'.
Australian GA: go figure...

[Two_dogs]

FFS
..........

[Creampuff]

actus reus: any chance of translating your post into plain English?

2D: For who or what's sake are you effing?

[Part 121]

Chris Manning's appointment is a good move for the industry. Manning will call it as he see's it and will not put his reputation on the line for bureaucratic incompetence

If the ATSB is as rotten as is said, and Manning cannot improve it, I would expect to see him resign in disgust.

Not so sure about the new DAS. Concerned he may be developing early signs of stockholm syndrome....... :{

[Two_dogs]

Creamie

Mccormick said it had to be requested under 'Part 301' as per usual.
Dolan says that 'I knew of the existence of the report' and that everything in the report was 'already available to us'.

Nuff said

[Lookleft]

This is what you think you said:

I also believe the Karen Casey matter, like almost all legal disputes, are better settled through negotiation out of court. This could, I believe, still happen.

This is what you actually said Sunny:


I suspect that Karen's lawsuit will be settled out of court very shortly.

The risks for Rex if it doesn't settle include:

- The potential for the media to pick up on the donations story.

- Political fallout for all the political parties.

- Potentially an ASIC investigation of Rex and possibly a NSW ICAC reference.

- Further publicity about the state of CASA and ATSB.

- and finally, A lawsuit by Dominic James on the basis of being denied procedural fairness and natural justice possibly by CASA, Rex and ATSB in collusion.

As for this I couldn't care less what you accuse me of:

As for the Pel Air report, I accuse you of wishful thinking.

Your predictions, forecasts and reading of the political wind are no better than anyone elses, despite your often stated qualifications,experience and connections.

[dubbleyew eight]

creampuff, sunfish

haven't you realised you are being trolled by CAsA staff ?

obvious as hell.
W8

[Lookleft]

If sarcasm is the lowest form of wit then accusing people of being trolls is the basest level of posting. :ugh:

[Creampuff]

W8 I agree with many of the arguments and points made by Lookleft on various threads on PPRuNe. Sometimes I disagree.

I don't know or care whether s/he works for CASA or Calathumpia Corporation.

[Soteria]

W8 I agree with many of the arguments and points made by Lookleft on various threads on PPRuNe. Sometimes I disagree.
Sounds to me like Creamy and Lookleft are both a match made in AOPA heaven!!!

[Lookleft]

Sounds to me like Creamy and Lookleft are both a match made in AOPA heaven!!!

Still very much barking up the wrong tree Sotty Boy. I haven't been a member of AOPA since the highest category of license I held was a PPL and that was when the Cold War was at its peak and Bob Hawke was still riding a 74% approval rating.:ok:

[Prince Niccolo M]

The Minister has confirmed the appointment.

Part 121 - wonderful expectations, but history suggests that most resignations are escapes rather than gestures... :E

[Frank Arouet]

It has also been confirmed that the new investigation into the Pel-Air crash will include the recovery of the recorders. It is believed they will be in good enough order to be examined.
Now, can Dolan and Manning work together?