Training to be an air craft engineer in the military

[Matt227]

Hi, not sure if this is the right place for this question so I apologise in advance. I am interested in training to be an aircraft engineer in the military. I would like to know if one would receive the same level of training/ obtain the same qualifications in this job in all 3 off the services. I know in the navy they call the position air engineering technician, and in the army you can become an aircraft engineer or avionics technician. Thanks for any insight in this.

[Dark Helmet]

Hi Matt,
You might be better off posting this question on e-goat.
e-goat (http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/forum.php)

I am an ex-rigger and left in 2000. The biggest difference is that only the RAF offers you fixed and rotary wing training and experience. The other two services only operate rotary.
I served on both types during my career from the mighty Phantom to the mighty Wessex and many more in between.

Good luck.

[N707ZS]

How much work does the military actually do these days and how much is contracted out to civilian contractors?

[Dark Helmet]

Yes, a very interesting question. I'm afraid I've been out too long to give an opinion.
I do that the Tornado fleet maintenance at Marhell is a mixture of BAe civvies and military. All front line stuff is still only military I would guess.

[diginagain]

The biggest difference is that only the RAF offers you fixed and rotary wing training and experience. The other two services only operate rotary.Not strictly true.

[NutLoose]

Army tend to be soldiers first Engineers second

Navy mainly rotary at the moment, you go to sea and hence need to do all the survival stuff as well. But they will be getting more fixed wing and new carriers, as will the RAF who will no doubt end up operating off them at times. No doubt the new carriers will do some exotic locations when they embark, but it's a long time off before they get fighter assets.

RAF tend to be Engineers first, RAF squaddies second.

Unless it's changed, that is.

I would think Army training oriented towards rotary wing, navy Rotary and a bit of fixed.

RAF all types.

But that's conjecture as waaaay out of the loop.

What ever path you choose, you will enjoy your service if you are successful. I am slightly biased btw towards the RAF for obvious reasons.

[NutLoose]

Just a foot note, if you can go for a Airframe/ Engines or Avionics, do not let then try to fob you off with something like armourers etc, some time down the line you WILL be a civilian and an aircraft armourer is worth squat in the civil aviation environment.

Sorry not up to speed with the current trade structure.

[Matt227]

Thanks for the help, the appeal of working on the new aircraft carriers is very attractive. After leaving the forces would one need to get a civilian license to work in civilian aviation?

[Vendee]

I would recommend the OP to forget military and try to get a civilian apprenticeship which results in him getting his license. I just think there is much better long term prospects in that area.

[Dark Helmet]

Matt,
In order to make any decent money in civilian aviation, after leaving the forces, yes, you would need to obtain your licences.

Easy enough to do if you are switched on - you may even use your resettlement credits (or whatever it will be in the future). Just keep a careful eye on the requirements and make sure you can provide evidence.

[NutLoose]

As said Matt, yes you can work ex services as an unlicensed engineer, however it's when you become Licenced that your pay rises. I did my licences through self study when I came out whilst working as a un licenced engineer, but a lot of people start studying and work towards them whilst still serving. There is nothing to stop you holding licences whist serving, though you will need to show currency at renewals.

[Rigga]

Hi Matt,
There are quite a few positions nowadays that are fully (civvy) Part 66 Licenced Engineers in the RAF. These are mainly on the larger stuff such as Voyager and the fleets at Waddington. The Atlas (A400M) will also be a Licenced Engineer fleet. You might notice that all these types are also civilian types.
However, even if you don't end up on a heavy fleet but on a Fast or just old fleet (or on the old fast fleet at Marham or the old slow fleet at Brize!) there are opportunities to study for whatever future career you want.

If you go to civvy Street for your career you will have a different experience but one that is likely to be just as enjoyable.

You have to decide two things:
1. Do I want to work on aeroplanes or helicopters?
2. Do I really want to join up?

Good Luck - whatever your decision
Rigga

[NutLoose]

Trouble with those posts Rigga is the A330 you need type on licence and looking at the pay rate they are for the A400 it's peanuts compared to Civi street. Getting in Civiwise is not that easy unless he can get an apprenticeship and to be honest the life does not compare to military experience.

[Rigga]

Yes Nutty, I understand what you're saying, and many (not all) of the LAEs are either serving or reserve RAF personnel, but I believe the conversation was about Licensing and the RAF - and both meet at Brize/Waddo.

FYI - I also believe that CAT A's are in use at Brize too, so there is possibly room for a serving Mech to start there.
Don't know, just saying.
Cheers

[Matt227]

Thanks for all the input, the reason I have looked at the military is because I believe it will give good on the job training and ex military staff are held in high regard by civilian employers. I would also think getting an aircraft engineering apprentice in civvy street is pretty hard and I would need to go the uni/college to study before anyone would consider employing me as a trainee?

[Saintsman]

If you want to join up with the view of continuing in that career once you leave, then I would suggest that a communications trade would be a better choice.

For the foreseeable future there is going to be a demand for those skills, whether it involves networks or what is at the end of them. Plus in the forces, you can go anywhere with those skills (admittedly not always good). Unless on Ops, some trades are limited where they operate and with the cutbacks, the choices are getting smaller.

Nothing wrong with being an aircraft engineer but it's not what it used to be, both in the forces or civvy street.

[downsizer]

Golden hellos for ICT Techs at the moment, I wonder why....:uhoh:

[thing]

Nothing wrong with being an aircraft engineer but it's not what it used to be, both in the forces or civvy street.

It's not bad in monetary terms though. I have mates who went on to be civvy engineers after service life and they earn top dollar. One or two of them on here.

[TURIN]

In order to make any decent money in civilian aviation, after leaving the forces, yes, you would need to obtain your licences.

Easy enough to do if you are switched on

Not necessarily.

Getting the practical training logs and OJT books stamped up is becoming increasingly difficult.

Working in a heavy maintenance hangar to 'learn the trade' seems to be the way to go. However, it's a catch22 situation.

Good luck anyway. :ok:

[Matt227]

Thanks for all your advice, one other thing I am 27, currently working in the plumbing and heating industry. But want a more technical job. Would many think I was too old to be going in to this trade?

[Bladdered]

For what it is worth Matt, it really depends what you want in life. 27 is young but you will be competing to get in against much younger and potentially more 'malleable' men and women - albeit, my son with 4 years experience and BTEC up to his armpits in engineering at the age of 19 failed to get any response from his application and despite badgering them by phone decided to apply for an apprenticeship with a local aircraft engineering/component manufacturing company and is now earning far more than a sergeant in a trade group 1 appointment; albeit, pension, healthcare and opportunities for further advancement/and overseas dets are not an option (we think thankfully!!).

If you are a gas safe plumber and charge as much as the local plumber I use, I would stay there frankly. I sense some of the old faithful on this site will of course disagree.

[stevef]

Speaking as a civilian LAE, don't get carried away by the perceived glamour of being an aircraft engineer - a large part of your working day could see you carrying out repetitive mundane tasks such as greasing undercarriages and control actuators. And these will have to be cleaned before being inspected... ever been inside the main landing gear bay of a large aircraft?
How does a few days of seat repairs appeal to you if the AMO doesn't have a dedicated seat team..? or paintstripping and treating corrosion..?
It's not all like that, of course, many tasks are interesting, but don't expect it to be as exciting as might be portrayed elsewhere.
Line work is another thing altogether and arguably more satisfying as long as you don't mind all-weather maintenance/handling and occasional periods of intense pressure inbetween slack times.
Most people do enjoy the trade but it's as well to understand the good and not so good aspects.