Emirates working conditions.....

[PuffTheTragicDragon]

Can some of you sum up the current state of this airline for a first timer on the site?

I'm in North America right now keepin a peek on things in the industry. What's happening to this great company? If they want to expand so much, why are the working conditions sounding so undesirable?

Thanks

[TransitCheck]

2 words.

Greed.....Arrogance

[AlanPardew]

Couldn't put it any better than those two words from TransitCheck.

They have until May to sort things out. That's their annual opportunity to adjust terms, conditions, pay and with it staff moral.

The news about how desperately short of crew we are has apparently now reached management level, after a 3 year or so delay. There's a mad push to now get enough people recruited before May so they don't have to try to keep current staff from quitting. We received what must have been a joke email from the head of recruitment last week saying 'we have roadshows in the following locations...why not recommend us to your friends?' We all had a good laugh at that.

I've never flown with so many colleagues who are either serving their notice period or waiting to resign - and trust me if there isn't a huge improvement in May then they're gone.

The biggest issues Emirates have right now are:

1. They've not in their history had so many people leaving, and this at a time when they've not ever needed to recruit so many
2. Pilots finally have options - American's can leave to go to good deals back home, Europeans can go to a better deal with several low cost carriers and everyone else can head East for bumper pay packages - hey if you're going to be a mercenary why not get the best money?!

It's all about May. They need to give a decent pay rise- around 10% in my opinion, an appropriate profit share - all things considered (profit forecast and cost of fuel) even 18 weeks would seem to be on the low side and most importantly they need to stop taking things away and treat all staff with respect.

Alan Pardew

[Monarch Man]

What Alan said, for a start.

[Nikita81]

If they want to expand so much, why are the working conditions sounding so undesirable?

Because they are left with corrupted managers who know that they will take the money and leave. Nobody will be held responsible so why should they care? System is too big, there is no individual responsibility anymore and managers are abusing this fact.

Nobody cares about the working conditions, people or the company. It's a cow to milk and leave her to die in the desert.

Emirates is a real face of humanity when nobody is watching and when there is no control of the law. People turn to be cruel, lying and greedy bastards then.

Slavery mentality and fear culture contribute a lot to this state of the company. People are told that they should be proud to work for EK and happy to have a job. I even had a manager who told us that we "begged to work for Emirates" and that we "have to ******* smile", otherwise "there are thousands waiting for our job".

Employees are held under some sort of emotional and psychological blackmail. Managers know that in this part of the world they can always find another poor soul to work more for less and to put up with abuse and bullying.

Never forget that this part of the world never went through human and labour rights evolution phase, so locals are not even aware of them, while this presents a good excuse for western managers to seat, do nothing and get huge salaries and benefits.

So, that connection between expansion and working conditions doesn't really apply on EK. Until someone forbids them to fly due to human and labour rights violations or nobody wants to fly with them anymore due to better quality of service in other ME carriers or something terrible happens due to negligence of safety rules and demotivation and fatigue of people responsible for safety. It will be too late then though.

Emirates Airline presents everything that went wrong in today's superficial, stupid, selfish and profit oriented capitalistic world. The problem with stupidity is that it always unconsciously destroys itself at the end.

[Emma Royds]

I hope that I am proved wrong but I suspect things will only improve to the extent necessary, once we see aircraft parked up due to there being not enough crew to fly the schedule.

I believe this for two reasons. Firstly our senior management display a level of arrogance that is galling whilst their judgement is clouded by the perception that our 'brand' is powerful and robust enough to survive unblemished. Middle management will do all that they can to keep the operation running in what ever way, so that they can protect their own jobs.

The eye has well and truly been taken off the ball. One one hand we have individuals in the Funny Farm who are salivating at the thought of deciding which sports events to sponsor next while on the other hand, we have loyal Skywards members who are complaining at the constant deterioration of the the on board product, which is compounded by exhausted and demotivated cabin crew. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

[polax52]

:confused: I never would have imagined that Emirates would fall apart in this way. I guess Qatar will be next.

[alwayzinit]

They need to give a decent pay rise- around 10%

In the last 2 years we have been "granted" 3% , this as many will remember is the contracted step but now appears to be discretionary.

So with the headline inflation rate at 15%+ that means in real purchasing terms EK has forced us to take a 24% pay cut. "Thank you so much!"

Sadly with inflation running at conservatively 15%+ a 10% raise in basic pay will still leave us way behind the curve.

The recent survey results are yet to be published and I strongly suspect they never will see the light of day.

I have always tried to be objective in my observations and criticisms, getting one's blood pressure up achieves nothing, but the current situation is a spectacular train wreck in the making.

Flights are being cancelled, so the slow motion crumpling of the engine has begun.

An airline without crews is an aircraft storage company nothing more.

In short, to original poster, stay where you are.

[SOPS]

The fact that the survey results have not been published says it all really.

[Trader]

A 10% raise won't be nearly enough to keep pilots. In any case, it is less about he money then it is about the conditions!

90+ hours a month is unsustainable and the main driver of people leaving. Most contracts elsewhere are 75-80 month. They actually have a leave policy that works. They get treated well or better.

I won't rehash all the issues.

I doubt they will ever go back to a 76 hour month so if they don't increase pay 25% plus pilots will continue to leave. They will not stay when other pay the same for a 76 hour month and where conditions are better.

Keep treating the employees like they do and people will keep leaving.

[SOPS]

And Trader, we are actually getting paid for 76 hours a month at EK. When they took away the overtime and rosters suddenly jumped to 92 hours, we did not get any pay rise, they just got a heap of productivity for free.

And let's not even start on no credit for leave, ground school, sim or whatever....

They think they have been really clever, but it's coming back to bite them now.

[kungfu panda]

Just a question; are you required to, as operating crew, be in the aircraft for more than one thousand hours per calendar year (seat time+bunk)?

[MR8]

Honestly, I sincerely think the pay at EK is reasonable if the conditions were reasonable. The problem with most crew (that is pilots and cabin crew) is that they are exhausted and overworked. No pay can change that fact: you don't get less exhausted from being paid more.

In order to get our crew levels back up to where they used to be, EK should keep the pay as it is but go back to a European style pay system like we used to have until about 10 years ago: 82 credit hours per month (31 days) and credit for every duty, including STBY, simulator and even annual leave. An while we're at it, get rid of the flight pay.. Only that way a healthy and sustainable lifestyle can be obtained for the crews.
Initially this would lead to a big overtime pay for most pilots every month while we are still working our asses off, but as the numbers would go up, the overtime would be traded in for a better lifestyle.

Unfortunately, I am expecting the Arabic capitalistic solution to the problem: pay them more money and work them harder for it...

[BigGeordie]

Kungfu Panda, Yes, depending on how many Ultra Long Haul flights you are rostered for. On the A330 you wouldn't get anywhere near 1,000 hrs (but would still be exhausted all the time). On the A380 it is perfectly possible and legal to do well over 1,000 block hours in 12 months.

[jack schidt]

Too BIG to FAIL attitude in EK...

Wasn't there a perfect example of what not to do/(BE) a few years ago as demonstrated in the banking industry.

This (stated above by a knowledgeable poster), Arrogance, is a result of self regulation. As was seen in the 2007/8 crisis, no matter how BIG you think you are, natural forces eventually balance even the arrogant.

No matter how BRAND MINDED EK thinks it is, no matter how much arrogance flows through the pipework in HQ, eventually the workers are making their feelings known and are leaving and others are not coming. Those that do come dilute the already badly reduced standards in both safety and service. It is only a matter of time before the workforce KARMA hits the public KARMA and they prefer another airline. My family members prefer to travel on other carriers now due to EK staff ticketing and the service on the flights.

Gulf Air was to have been the BIG player in the gulf, it failed and EK is setting itself up to be the Biggest failure in both Aviation and of all the Gulf businesses if it doesn't work hard to help get this mess sorted out fast.

I for one hope it does get sorted as it was once a great company to work for, now I wish I could leave sooner than I am able to.

J

[kungfu panda]

Big Geordie Thanks for your reply. As I understand, all other ICAO contracting states have a Maximum of 1000 hours of total block time per calendar year. Could you describe the studies carried out by the GCA (whatever the UAE authority is) to ascertain that the appropriate safety levels would be maintained whilst increasing the minimums above normal standards?

[22k]

So quick question.

If they reduced the monthly hrs to say around 80 or thereabouts, would that at least return Emirates to being a good place to work for or is it past the point of no return.

I agree that not having credit hours for sims etc etc rubbish and shouldn't be allowed.

I'm always tempted to try to join EK but what I read here puts me off. I'd love to experience the travel, equipment and diversity but not at the cost of my relationship or health. By the sounds of it, it's a given that both will suffer if you decide to join EK. It's a really shame because I would jump at the job if it wasn't so poorly reported on lately.

[Kapitanleutnant]

22K…

I think you'll find most of us agree the main point of contention (although not everyone) is the rostering. As one alluded to above, one morning back whenever, we all awoke to find our T&C had been changed from 78 hours for overtime threshold pay to 92 hours. And back then we were being rostered for sometimes 95 to 96 hours a month after this occurred. Someone decided it would be cheaper to limit us to 92 hours so we would never get overtime pay and except for this month of Feb, that has proven true. For some reason (shortage of crew more than likely) they've rostered many of us above the overtime threshold for the shortened 28 day month. Must be really short if they've had to resort to overtime….

So, to answer your question…. IMO, yes, your suggestion of 80 hours would be a GREAT step in making this place bearable. As many have said here, at the current rate of flying (92 hours) month after month after month, it's simply unsustainable to the body. It's mostly the lack of recovery days between trips and the time zone changes of our route system and the ever changing day time-night time zig zag that just messes your body clock up completely…. month after month after month.

Just my two fils…

Kap

[littlejet]

16 months between leaves and 24 months of forced leave only. That will ease your temptation I suppose.

[White Sausage]

22K, quick answer: No!
They worked very hard the last 7 years to destroy ANY goodwill, pride, loyalty and commitment of their workforce. There is hundreds of other things besides the insane amount of working that need to be repaired. Even if they started now (which they won't), it's too little, too late. Nobody trusts them anymore. This is gonna be Gulf Air 2.0...

[SOPS]

And the question White sausage is, why have they done just as you described?

[White Sausage]

That is a question we all are asking ourselves, aren't we? But I don't think that anybody cares anymore...

[glofish]

Even if they went back to 82 hours, even if we would get all of our contractual leave per year, even if they would compensate for all the inflation and put the pay back to what it bought before 2008, the situation would not improve .... because White Sausage got it all in his few words:

Nobody trusts them anymore

They lied to us and backstabbed us too many times to be able to get the motivation back even to the lowest standard required to stop the haemorrhage.
Most of us will leave, some earlier, some later, but all too early to keep a sustainable level of manning or experience.

Does anyone want to join such a party? :ugh:

[falconeasydriver]

I've said it before...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=yoK6BzZOYxs

Why? The best metaphor I can find happens at the end of the RTGS day along with a pervasive culture of short term gain based around having no checks and balances in decision making.
I see so many parallels with the combined intelligence failures of the CIA, FBI and NSA that has led to calamity and collateral damage due to a lack of oversight and an over reliance on "data" rather than quality HUMIT, with how EK have pursued a similar HR policy based on negative interactions, fear, and of course the localization of certain key positions that places little faith or credence in their "employee" (resource) input and satisfaction.
It's now coming home to roost, and of course at certain levels there will NEVER be an admission of any culpability.
Airlines are a people business, if you treat your staff poorly, eventually the people element is lost and the business suffers, but it's only when you begin to haemorrhage staff and can't replace them that the bean counters can quantify the cost, by then however it costs 3-5 times as much to repair as it would have if you had engaged the staff originally.

[SOPS]

I am lucky I have never been threatened directly by management. But I lived with the fact that the threat could come. It is a very strange way to run a company, let alone an airline.

I was very fortunate that my bucket load of money became full at the same time as my bucket full of poo,

Good bye
L

[palm]

17 month without a single annual leave this year.....Don't even thing about joining that Cie.

[PuffTheTragicDragon]

Thanks to all of you for your candidness.

The irony of your replies is that my company is going through the same fuchery right now. Thus, the reason I guess I'm looking elsewhere.

We are a very successful NA airline, but the philosophy of what made the brand and airline so successful has been abandoned. Now they ride the coattails of brand and the market share by offering a fetid product. The employees are being nickel and dimed to cut costs of an already lean operation.

My theory is that the more successful an airline is, without healthy competition, the more the working conditions are stolen because "they can".

You good people deserve better, and so do I. Lets hope this pilot shortage reverses the tables on the corporate greed, and we become a true commodity.

Patience wins the race.

Puff

[22k]

Hey guys, one more question.

With regards to the salary, is it true that every 12 months it is increased from the base by 3‰? I'm a little confused as the website does not make it clear.

Cheers all.

[BigGeordie]

The 3% increment has been held back from individuals in the past as a form of management punishment for alleged wrongdoing during the year. There is no right of appeal for this and obviously it affects your salary for the whole time you work there, and your provident fund. It is far from contractual and could be withdrawn at any time.

[BigGeordie]

KungFu Panda, the company say we aren't fatigued and that is good enough for the GCAA. Not sure what the crew who had a 12 hour stay in the hotel in New York after a 16 hour duty and then flew back would make of that but clearly they weren't tired either.

[fatbus]

Was that a whole crew or just the Capt that deadheaded in.?

[BigGeordie]

Whole crew, during the weather disruption. Summary is on the ASR reports. Nikita81 also has something to say about it on her blog. As you might imagine.

[Trader]

So they admitted to illegally operating after only 12 hours rest? You require rest at least as long as the previous duty!

[fatbus]

12 hrs in the hotel plus travel plus non paid duty time ,probably made it legal. Don't know the details

[BigGeordie]

Operated under ULR rules, normal FTL rules do not apply. Basically for ULR there are no minimum rest requirements. It could legally have been operated as a turnaround!

[BANANASBANANAS]

OM A 7.C.4.f. + OM A 7.C.7.f

[BigGeordie]

Also OM-A 7.C.7.h

With apologies to those who aren't EK and have no idea what we are talking about but there is no way I'm posting anything from the OM-A on a public forum.

Basically the above references say: whatever we say, goes.

[polax52]

Thanks big Geordie, your posts are informative. Unfortunately at Emirates as I understand from another thread; The onset of Fatigue is indicated by an abnormal blood pressure. I would therefore suggest that you all Stop whinging and keep flying until you exceed 160/100. Disregard all flight time limitations as they are a burden to Airline profitability.

[Nikita81]

Last edited by BigGeordie; 14th Feb 2015 at 12:37. Reason: To drag Nikita into it.

You successfully dragged me into it BG:

The real reason why Emirates Airline plans to employ 11.000 new staff | Truth about Emirates Airline Management (http://donotflyemirates.org/2015/02/14/the-real-reason-why-emirates-airline-plans-to-employ-11-000-new-staff/)

[Pucka]

Sausage...almost a perfect reflection on the situation at CX!!i guess the major difference with the UAE and HKG, the latter was built on 19 century semi legal trade and the former built via the slavery and blood of others...sad that EK has descended into such arrogant chaos...the reference to arrogance referring to the management and not the coal face...we were rather hoping that EK would become the shining light we could all look up to..and eventually put the two finger salute to CX to and join...even with the EK road show pitching up March 1 in HKG, the best they will get would be HK Airlines and very junior CX guys....the experience crews could never take the cash drop, the Emiratie attitude and all the pathetic short thrift that goes with it..CX in the sandpit!!!

[RoyalEnfield]

On the lighter side, here's one from The Onion on Dubai's working conditions. For those that aren't familiar with The Onion, it is a satirical news site.

Dubai Unveils Plans For World?s Largest Human Rights Violation | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/dubai-unveils-plans-for-worlds-largest-human-right,37979/)

[White Sausage]

Pucka, don't even think of swapping CX for EK. I understand that you fine guys get threated there badly as well but at least you got more money for the pain and some rules. Here the money is not enough for all the bad things happening as of lately. And rules??? Don't even get me started :ugh:

[InnocentBystander]

You successfully dragged me into it BG:

The real reason why Emirates Airline plans to employ 11.000 new staff | Truth about Emirates Airline Management

Truth about Emirates Airline Management (http://donotflyemirates.org) is now blocked when you try to access it from the UAE. Looks like Dragana really got under managements skin if they go to the length of influencing the UAE authorities to block the blog of one(!) ex-employee.

By the way, the possible violations that can lead to the blocking of a Web site in the UAE according to the respective Annex are:

1. Internet Content for Bypassing Blocked Content:

This category includes Internet Content that allow or assist Users to access Blocked Content.

2. Internet Content for Learning Criminal Skills

This category includes Internet Content that either provide instructions for or identifies methods to promote, encourage, or provide the skills to commit illegal or criminal or unethical activities. These include bomb-making, phreaking (breaching phone security or phone service theft), scams and fraud, terrorism, evading law enforcement, stalking, lock picking, selling pirated material such as commercial software, music, videos, or others.

3. Dating Internet Content

This category includes Internet Content that provides online dating or matchmaking
which contradicts with the ethics and morals of the UAE.
Exemptions: Chatting services, chatting groups, social networking and forums.

4. Internet Content for Illegal drugs

This category includes Internet Content that provide information on purchasing, manufacturing, promoting and using illegal drugs.

5. Internet Content containing pornography and nudity

This category includes Internet Content that contains material of a pornographic nature, or relates or depicts acts of homosexuality, nudity and sexual material (including stories, jokes, animations, and video) or Internet Content that promotes sexual activity. It includes Internet Content which promote the distribution of above material (such as Peer-to-peer websites and links).

6. Gambling Internet Content

This category includes Internet Content that is relevant to gambling or such as
gambling links, tips, sports picks, lottery results, as well as horse, car or boat racing.

7. Internet Content for Hacking and malicious codes

This category includes Internet Content that distribute information and tools for hacking (root kits, kiddy scripts, etc.) that help individuals gain unauthorized access to computer systems. Also include Internet Content that distributes tools or information for producing and distributing malicious codes such as viruses, worms or Trojan horses. Exemptions: information security including ethical hacking.

8. Internet Content that are offensive to religions

This category includes Internet Content that contains material which expresses hate to
religions.

9. Phishing Internet Content

This category includes Internet Content where entities or persons falsely represent themselves as a ‘legitimate’ businesses or enterprises for the purpose of deceiving and obtaining from Users, valuable personal information such as bank account or email account information including details such as usernames, passwords, credit card details or bank account details.

10. Internet Content that downloads Spyware

This category includes Internet Content that downloads Spyware which gathers
private information of the users without his or her knowledge.

11. Internet Content providing unlicensed Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) service

This category includes Internet Content that allows access to services which are prohibited in accordance with the TRA’s Voice over Internet Protocol Policy.

12. Terrorism Internet Content

This category includes Internet Content of terrorism groups and related Internet Content that support terrorism and publish and distribute materials for terrorism or include material for training and encouraging terrorism or help to serve terrorism groups such as funding, facilitating communication and other direct and indirect services.

13. Prohibited Top Level Domain (TLD)

This category includes Internet Content under a Top Level Domain names which offends against, is objectionable to, or is contrary to the public interest, public morality, public order, public and national security, Islam morality or is otherwise prohibited by any applicable UAE law, regulation, procedure, order or requirement .

Since none of these apply to Dragana's blog they need to add a 14th one: "Stuff we don't like". ;)

[donpizmeov]

Works here.

[InnocentBystander]

Are you on etisalat? It's definitely blocked on du.

[donpizmeov]

Yep with the slut. That's the government one right?

[Nikita81]

Can someone please check this DU-Etisalat information? I need the right info on where and how it's blocked. Thank you. :)

[InnocentBystander]

Can someone please check this DU-Etisalat information? I need the right info on where and how it's blocked. Thank you.

It's definitely blocked on Du:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/1zydgtx.jpg

[Nikita81]

Thanks. :)

Edit: so this is not a governmental decision.

[346Heavy]

https://vtunnel.com you will get a webpage with an address bar and then type in the URL...that should take care of it.

Now before anyone gets excited this doesn't really work for videos

[Old King Coal]

Wrt: 8. Internet Content that are offensive to religions

This category includes Internet Content that contains material which expresses hate to religions. but only if the religion being ridiculed is Islam. :E

[TCU LUX]

Guys/Gals,

Whatever the recruitment people may spin to you at the roadshows there are some simple truths that you should know (I am open to correction by anyone that disagrees):

1. You will never get 42 days holiday in a year. The days you don't get assigned will just keep building up until you're fed up and resign. In the months that you do get leave EK will roster you the max hours possible in the remaining days of that month i.e. you still work as many hours in that month as in any other month.

2. The bidding system no longer functions - therefore do not expect to have more than 3 days off per month in a row. We are also heading for a max of 8 days off per month. This is not enough due to the rostering pratices at EK. You will fly lates to earlies...earlies to lates with minimum rest in between. The result is that you feel like a zombie and can not spend quality time with your family. You will be fatigued and irritable most of the time. This is all legal because the GCAA allow it. GCAA is Emirates & Emirates is the GCAA = you get screwed.

3. Education allowance will not cover the cost of your Kids education and depending on how many kids you have, and which schools you find a place in, you will be out of pocket. This can be a large part of your disposable income.

4. The inflation in Dubai greatly exceeds any miserly step pay increase you may receive - therefore year after year your actually real income is decreasing.

5. Profit share: May or may not happen. Looks like it's a thing of the past. If you get any then it will not be much...especially not the 12/14 weeks promoted at the roadshows.

I could go on and on. But the single biggest issue is that your health will suffer. Whatever else has been said, this is the greatest issue. You will feel fatigued all of the time and your health will suffer...along with it your lifestyle and quality of home life.

By the way, I hope you do decide to come as we need all the people we can get....maybe then we can get some leave.

From the sinking ship.........

[flyaway777]

The post above is as accurate as it is damning of the current situation in EK. Especially the part at the end about our long term health and how little regard they have for it. This is the single most important issue here (amongst many others) and one that only seems to be getting worse.

I would however disagree on hoping people ignore all this and join anyway. It would seem to me that the only time things will improve overall is when they have to park aeroplanes due lack of crew. Until then their sheer arrogance will not allow them to acknowledge that there is any problem in the first place.

[Nikita81]

I guess I can open hundreds of new blogs for DU users:

This blog has been blocked in UAE | Truth about Emirates Airline Management (http://donotflyemirates.org/2015/02/16/this-blog-has-been-blocked-in-uae/)

For all DU users this is the alternative website address where they can read news:

Josephineq.org

[Shania]

I have recently been offered employment with EK as cabin crew. I have been reading reviews for the past few hours from a variety of websites and there seems to be a few common themes.

1. Cabin Crew are worked like dogs
2. The managers bully their team and favor some over others
3. Labour law issues (no union)
4. Work/life balance

Can anyone give me some more insight?

I have lived in other countries, have a university degree and am 28. I keep going back and forth on whether or not I want to accept this position. Can anyone help me out? This is a huge life decision for me and I don't want to make the wrong move.

Thanks

[Emma Royds]

We are also heading for a max of 8 days off per month.

Will this be the final straw for many? I personally will be voting with my feet if this 'stunt' is pulled off.

[allaru]

This will take care of any pay rises.

https://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/gulf-states-continue-dialogue-value-added-tax-uae-110659465--business.html

5. Profit share: May or may not happen. Looks like it's a thing of the past. If you get any then it will not be much...especially not the 12/14 weeks promoted at the roadshows............................continued

6. The Meydan labour camp.

7. New flight time limitations and bidding system (it won't be for our benefit).

8. Increased sub load ticket prices disguised as an extended eligibility scheme.

9. Megalomaniacal managers.

feel free to add to the list

[flaphandlemover]

Ask your TRE...

Some of them got introduced to the new Lido Roster which is already parallel running to the current overloaded one.

In a washup there where Rosters put up on the wall... BRACE FOR IMPACT.

Min off days is Max... 8 days in a month.
Max 3 days in a row and not a day more ( and you cannot swap for more)

4 US flights (only stick time counts, makes it 2 one is doing for free)
3 European Flights plus 2 avail days. ( will transform in local turn arounds and could be double sectors).

This new SCREWING system makes EK not to worry about resignations.
They can loose 500+ people and still fly the rest into the grave.

Who ever thinks of coming here.... EK doesn't care about you or your family.

If you get sick too often you get a threat email bu your chief pilot telling you that you should ask yourself if this job is the right job for you....

[flaphandlemover]

@shania

You summed it up already.

Simple answer...

Read and decide...

You have been warned!!!

[SOPS]

I have heard the same story about the new rostering system, flap.

[fatbus]

TRE's are not using the new system.

[Pucka]

Sausage...not thinking of bouncing over..rather fly a Twotter in Oceania than continue flying the big jets for a bunch of heathens... That said.. Looks like you guys are going through a pre 49 ears round up...if the resignations are that bad and management don't give a stuff, maybe it's time to usurp the road show programme?....are there pilots involved in this scam or just trainee lizards and PR cretins??

[donpizmeov]

Fattie are you sure?

[flaphandlemover]

Fatbus,

I said that they got introduced to the system... Not that they are beeing already rostered with it...

[HVYMETAL]

How many days off for the 777 long haul and A380 crews? Due to longer flights won't they get more days off than the minimum of 8?

That said, thanks for the info I used to really want to work for EK, after reading these threads I'm having second thoughts...

[White Knight]

Indeed HVYMETAL, but nothing wrong with a bit of hysteria from time to time!!!

[fatbus]

Have not seen the new system, bid for Apr closed on the 12 th feb for all trainers. Talk is apr bidding for jun .

[HVYMETAL]

Can you give a sample "normal" 777 or A380 or other long haul schedule? You don't have to post yours, just an example of what a trip might look like? That's all I'd be interested in if I can get more than 11 days off per month. I'm currently flying domestic narrow body here in th USA (I was at a U.S. regional before that) so I'm not really interested in 5 legs a day on an A320.

Again, thanks for the info.

[Dune]

How many days off for the 777 long haul and A380 crews? Due to longer flights won't they get more days off than the minimum of 8?



Assume you haven't done much (if any?) reading. Impossible to answer your questions as everything is in the process of changing once again.

New Duty Limitiations as defined by the licensing authority:

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/555784-new-gcaa-flight-time-limitations-could-not-any-worse.html

New rostering system soon to be put into place by Emirates:

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/554312-jeppesen-bidding-sytem-ek.html

You would be best served by watching this space for 6 months. You will get your answers by then ....... I put money on an absolute disaster based upon the current management arrogance and ineptitude.

[HVYMETAL]

I've read a lot thanks and everything is vague, I'm assuming they're worried about management scouring these forums which is ok I understand.

Someone on another forum mentioned that pairings and schedules at EK are bid on by seniority (so a senior pilots gets pick of the litter over a junior FO). According to the other thread this is not so at QR?

Either way I'll keep reading this thread for new info.

[22k]

Any chance there might be any pilots from the 'unmentionable' here who may care to pm me with some info on their conditions there?

It's very hard to find up to date info on how their conditions, rosters and culture are. Any info would be greatly appreciated guys!

Cheers in advance.

[Nikita81]

Clear the cookies from your browser (and type the address manually if still not working). :)

Emirates cabin crew fired for complaining to GCAA, ACAA and IATA?

https://donotflyemirates.wordpress.com/2015/02/18/emirates-cabin-crew-fired-for-complaining-to-gcaa-acaa-and-iata/

[InnocentBystander]

Clear the cookies from your browser (and type the address manually if still not working).

Quote:
Emirates cabin crew fired for complaining to GCAA, ACAA and IATA?

https://donotflyemirates.wordpress.c...acaa-and-iata/

Using the https wordpress link works:

https://donotflyemirates.wordpress.com

[fatbus]

Good read down route

[bcflyer]

Shania,

Let's see, you posted that according to your findings:

1. Cabin Crew are worked like dogs
2. The managers bully their team and favor some over others
3. Labour law issues (no union)
4. Work/lifestyle balance

Why would anybody accept a position with those working conditions? How much more insight do you need?

[TomU]

Much discontent within Flight Deck and Cabin Crew.
How is it with hangar staff, LAE and other technical staff? Qa, Tech Services, Planning etc?

[Emma Royds]

The line engineers are working flat out and in a block of four days off, it is now routine for them to get called on one of those four days. Despite it being a day off, they can only refuse coming into work if they have a sick note from the Doc.

[de facto]

If you cant deal with the work,pressure and all...send your CV and work for another airline.
Seriously,over eating,over sleeping,not
working out is an early sign of depression i agree,but wouldnt it be the right time to leave??
There are many airlines in the world.....give them the finger,move and get on with your life.

[BigGeordie]

de facto, it has been said before but it is not always that easy to "just leave".

If you have any debt in Dubai (and most of the Cabin Crew have a fair bit of debt- they have loans and credit cards almost thrust upon them from the day they collect their first paycheck. The banks have desks set up in the training college on payday.) you can't leave. It has to be paid off first. If you skip town without paying it (and crew do sometimes simply not show up after a layover) you will be thrown in jail if you ever set foot in Dubai again.

For the pilots/engineers, if you have moved your family halfway around the world to come to Dubai to "just leave" would involve taking the children out of school, possibly your wife out of her job, and moving your entire life halfway around the world- again. This in itself is highly stressful, especially if you don't have a job to go to.

[Machspeed]

BigGeorie, that's what they have been counting on for years and it has worked. That stopped working last year and is now the reason for the new 5 year bond over the previous 3 year bond. They believe they can just keep people from leaving with the threat of legal/criminal action in Dubai if you ever come back. Lol. That's easy. Don't come back. Lol

Flight Deck and Cabin Crew are both leaving at alarming rates and even without finishing their contracts.

I'll be doing the same if DECs go to the B777 without taking those qualified first. My family will be waiting for me to give my two weeks notice from the safety of their own beds in the homeland.

The train has derailed here and the front of it hasn't even seen the dust yet. It's amazing how the blinders were on for so long. It's now time to sit back and laugh.

[BigGeordie]

Machspeed is correct but I think another reason for the number of people leaving is the demographics of the hiring over the last few years. Emirates has been hiring more younger people without families of late. That looks great to the accountants because it saves on housing and schooling. However, these people can also leave relatively easily as they don't have to worry about spouses and children. If they get fed up they can quit tomorrow and relocate anywhere in the world much more easily than somebody married with two or three children in school.

[Capetonian]

If you have any debt in Dubai ................ It has to be paid off first. If you skip town without paying it ............. you will be thrown in jail if you ever set foot in Dubai again.There are worse travesties than that, and debts should be paid off.

This is the story of a 78 year old doctor from CPT who treated a patient who died some years later from the terminal illness for which he had treated her. Transiting the hub of hypocrisy and double standards 10 years later, he was arrested and jailed. Full story ...........

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/world/middleeast/united-arab-emirates-laws-ensnare-a-doctor.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Ana_Cleto]

New Leave Awards from April leave planners "reconsideration" are in the air already.

At least my rejected requests are...

I read that priority would be given to those with a long period of non-leave, and I'm gonna be close to a year without any, but no April days where granted...

What to do!

[alwayzinit]

There is one way the 9th floor could try and improve moral and actually retain people whose bucket is slopping over, actually ask folk which type of routes they actually want to fly.
Short haul, turns out to 4 hours and back.
Medium haul, layovers with 4+ to say 6.30 legs.
Long haul, layovers 6.30 to 9.30 legs
Very long haul, everything that is left.
or
Pax
Freighter.
Whatever but at least ask?


I know that it would be difficult to manage initially and to fill the schedule the occasional blip one way or another but an online survey on the portal would cost nothing and give the brain trust some useful info.


Just my 5 aed worth.

[theidler]

There is one way the 9th floor could try and improve moral and actually retain people whose bucket is slopping over, actually ask folk which type of routes they actually want to fly.

Isn't that what CRS is? Each month we put a request in for where we want to fly to and then two or three weeks later we find out where the company is actually sending us. If we're lucky there might be a mild resemblance between the two. Until a few months ago I did quite well. More recently not so well and next month I have over a 100 hours of flying east when I bid just west.

Meanwhile on the swaps board all the trips west I want to do are there but I can't swap onto any of them because my schedule is too tight or there's a secret rule banning the swap. The trips west are up there for swap because the people who bid east were given west. Figure that out.

CRS is only in place to bring up at roadshows and selections to give the impression of a forward thinking and employee minded company. It doesn't need to actually work.

[airbusgirl66]

OR....for the less than desirable fleet, the choice of:

War zones vs. non war zones
Flt segments less than 1 hr. vs flt segments more than 1 hr
Possible ebola African layovers vs typical African layovers

It's all relative...

[alwayzinit]

theidler:

I agree, though my point was even when CRS was allowed to work there was always some junk (subjective) thrown in for good measure.

Just having an idle stroll the E swap and there are many people looking to swap lay overs for turns and visa versa.

My point was to gather actual data to see what people would prefer flying. To be given a roster that already has your preferred pattern type rather than having to spend hours trying to jiggle a swap would be a step in the right direction and cost zip.

[Machspeed]

In a wash up last week TCAS admitted to the use of manual inputs prior to roster release. He said it without knowing it and then was questioned about it right afterwards. There was a lot of back peddling.

[Machspeed]

Emma (EK Engineers).

I asked ours on my last flight about this. He said that they/he are/had complaining(ed) to their manager and was told directly by the manager that they don't have a staffing issue and that everyone here was happy. He was asked what his problem was. He gave them his 3 mo notice the next day.

[22k]

Hi all,

Not sure if I've missed something or not but was just looking up the FAQ section on the careers website for FO jobs and saw that they have the bond written there as 3 years and 36k. For some reason I had in my head that it had risen to 5yr and 45k?

Can anyone verify the info in the FAQ section as current or recently superseded?

Sorry if I've missed something already said here somewhere before.

Cheers!
22

[maurgz]

I recently submitted my apolication to EK, and am undergoing the recruitment process. However, after resding all these, I am considering to withdraw my application 😐