Skydive The Beach / Skydive Australia - Deleted thread [Archive]

RatsoreA

12th Feb 2015, 08:54

Why did this thread get deleted?

Is this not a rumour site, about aviation? Seemed like a pretty important thing going on! No one was slandering, defaming or libellous!

I think that the 2 largest skydiving companies in Australia holding a tight grip on that industry, then one trying to list publicly to raise the cash to buy the other and establish a monolithic monopoly would be something of great interest to many parties, especially if they are intending to 'get into bed' with them.

So, why the hush hush? Did someone get sand in somewhere uncomfortable about it, and they exert such influence they are able to dictate terms to what amounts to "the press"?

And just remember people, the truth is a defense to defamation!

kingRB

12th Feb 2015, 09:14

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/content/images/mj-popcorn.gif

PPRuNe Towers

12th Feb 2015, 09:35

The person who started the thread deleted it

Rob

RatsoreA

12th Feb 2015, 09:39

Rob,

Thank you for replying, appreciate it.

kaz3g

12th Feb 2015, 10:26

And just remember people, the truth is a defense to defamation!

But also remember the onus of proof rests with the defendant who must prove the statement is true. It is not for the plaintiff to prove it is not.

Kaz

hawkerxp

15th Feb 2015, 23:22

And just remember people, the truth is a defense to defamation!

This is incorrect... A widely held belief amongst Pilawyers, however the defence has a number of other elements that need to be involved, for example how the truth was found, you can't rely on the fact that the statement becomes true or is discovered to be true after the publication.

But also remember the onus of proof rests with the defendant who must prove the statement is true. It is not for the plaintiff to prove it is not.

This is also incorrect, there are certain scenarios where the burden of proof is switched, especially in criminal law (yes defamation is covered under criminal law too)...

At the end of the day if you are running on rumour and innuendo that you think others may not want to be published. You are probably better to keep it to yourself. Unless of course you are an expert at torts law and criminal law...

50 50

16th Feb 2015, 06:14

Hawkerxp, did you really just advise us to keep rumours to ourselves, on a rumour network? You win the Internet today.
Perhaps this site should be called the ProfessionalPilotsandTortsLawExpertsNetwork, or PilotsTruthAdvocacyForum? I bet they would be thrilling reading. :ugh:

hawkerxp

16th Feb 2015, 07:57

No I was simply referring to any case where the rumour may be defamatory... So what do I win as a prize?

50 50

16th Feb 2015, 08:02

Today's Internet features a stunning showcase of angry armchair bloggers, arguments with strangers via social media, and everyone being offended by everything. Or for a second choice, a full grown African Elephant.

FoolCorsePich

16th Feb 2015, 08:04

Yawn, lets make this thread real.

So the biggest skydiving company in the world is buying Australias 2nd largest skydiving company. When do AOC's kick in for commercial parachuting?

RatsoreA

16th Feb 2015, 11:30

FCP, Thank you, exactly what I was getting at.

If they are trying to raise $70m (a figure I heard, take it with a grain of salt), it is big business, essentially carrying as many pax as a small-medium airline, with almost no oversight, and the oversight it does recieve is essentially the body put in place to promote it.

It's a bit like your parents agreeing to buy you a new Ferrari, if all your mates agree that it's a good idea...

tail wheel

16th Feb 2015, 19:47

"....and the oversight it does recieve is essentially the body put in place to promote it."

Works for the FAA in the USA!! :ok:

fencehopper

18th Feb 2015, 06:03

RatsoreA please delete some messages in you PM box as it is full and won't accept anymore. wish to send a PM

kaz3g

18th Feb 2015, 08:21

This link to a summary of the Uniform Defamation Laws may be useful for those who are planning on saying things that might diminish reputations:

Arts Law : Article : The new uniform defamation laws (http://www.artslaw.com.au/articles/entry/the-new-uniform-defamation-laws/)

Kaz

GTang

18th Feb 2015, 12:43

Maybe it is big business because the oversight body promotes it and that's one of its functions. If it wasn't one of its functions then it might as well kill off skydiving through over regulation. No jumpers = no accidents. Sound familiar?

I would have thought that the case for more regulation and oversight is a safety case. Not, there's 70 million bucks, let's put a stop to that nonsense.

GTang

18th Feb 2015, 12:51

"Almost no oversight"

What, as in no operational regulations, no regulatory schedules, no safety management systems, no training systems in place for examiners and instructors, no technical conferences, no incident reporting, no incident investigations.

Its a bit like saying all ferraris are dangerous, because you have never touched one.

RatsoreA

18th Feb 2015, 13:02

Teenager describes harrowing moment he skydived during hailstorm only to wake up in hospital - 9news.com.au (http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/02/17/19/51/teenager-describes-harrowing-moment-he-skydived-during-hailstorm-only-to-wake-up-in-hospital)

I have made room in my inbox.

And, GT, from a pilot perspective, no.

If flying school/charter company A is flying un airworthy POS' and the get found out, their regulatory body pulls their right to operate.

When has the APF, being the regulatory body for all things skydiving ever done that? Even if any incident has nothing to do with the airworthiness of the aircraft, I have never heard of the APF pulling their support/right to operate under their oversight from any company, for any reason. But if you know of any such instances, I am happy to listen.

I have been told CASA refers complaints about skydive ops to the APF. Without wanting to sound like Tracey Grimshaw, how many teenagers do they need to fling through hail storms before someone says something! And yes, I am well aware of the factious nature of my last remark.

sarge75

18th Feb 2015, 13:13

"Maybe it is big business because the oversight body promotes it and that's one of its functions."

Champagne comedy

GTang

18th Feb 2015, 19:43

You are right there is no aoc as such to "pull". CASA, not the APF still regulates their aircraft and I know of instances where the operator has been fined.

I can also think of instances where charter aircraft have flown through weather that was too much too handle.

RatsoreA

19th Feb 2015, 10:50

The APF can pull the DZ's/company's approval to conduct parachuting, the same way CASA can pull an AOC, but I've never heard of it happening.

fencehopper

19th Feb 2015, 10:52

They would have to do something really bad as the APF make a good income off those 'pink cards'. They would rather ground the individuals like the Tandem Masters, DZ safety Officers or the Chief Instructors.

RatsoreA

19th Feb 2015, 12:10

Exactly my point!

The cash is more important to them than the safety of the customers and staff of the companies they watch over.

What is 'pretty bad'? Operating defect riddled airplanes? Dropping people through hail? Maiming someone for life? Killing someone?

fencehopper

20th Feb 2015, 01:00

Can't complain about the condition of 'the beaches' aircraft. They are well maintained and he has a good team looking after them. He also asked me to go work for him but i declined the generous offer. Too old for that stress now.
Don't know how the other team play the maintenance game never been in their aircraft. Hard part is getting good high time pilots now. Most log hours then race for the airlines. Can't blame them either. I have noticed the standard of fun jumping decline over the years most old school types have moved out of the sport or prefer traveling to Europe or the US for the big ways or summer boogies.
I find the biggest problem is the young guns progress too fast and get instructor and TM ratings far too early and don't have the experience that high jump numbers give like experience in weather observation ect. Some things only come with time and hours. Attitude and animosity towards the 'old school' is also a big problem. Most young guns believe the sport started the week before they did their first jump. Some refuse advice and it has come back to bite them.
FH

YPJT

20th Feb 2015, 01:50

I particularly like the bit about how the weather changed after they left the plane. :mad:

RatsoreA

21st Feb 2015, 01:16

YPJT, lol, yes, it somehow went from weather that was fine for drop, to hailstorms in the space of 40-50 seconds!

Fencehopper, I know of two people who have direct knowledge of the condition of 'the beaches' aircraft, and the sub standard nature of it.

The name is Porter

21st Feb 2015, 02:22

Now, now. Let's not get caught up in the tall poppy syndrome. They pay their pilots, they even pay for required endorsements for their pilots. Their pilots are professionals & behave like it. Aircraft condition? You wish you could fly aircraft that are in the condition theirs are in.

Propstop

21st Feb 2015, 02:49

Fencehopper, I know of two people who have direct knowledge of the condition of 'the beaches' aircraft, and the sub standard nature of it.

Please enlighten us

fencehopper

21st Feb 2015, 08:34

Several of their aircraft ( C208, Cresco, PAC and C182, Turbine C206) have all been used at the local DZ and all have been in good condition. In the 5 years there have been only two incidents. One was pilot induced and the other was a partial failure of the FCU.

Propstop

21st Feb 2015, 09:09

Fencehopper, I agree the aircraft are in very good condition as they have a good team. I certainly know about the one which got damaged last year. Pilot induced, fortunately the firewall was not bent so was a straight forward repair.

I am sure RatsoreA will enlighten me with his statement.

Lumps

21st Feb 2015, 10:47

The APF can pull the DZ's/company's approval to conduct parachuting, the same way CASA can pull an AOC, but I've never heard of it happening.

Skydive City?

fencehopper

21st Feb 2015, 10:52

Propstop, Missed that you were quoting him.

Skydive City, was that Phil M in Victoria years ago.

RatsoreA

21st Feb 2015, 12:18

Oh Propstop! You tell me who you are and I'll be well happy to enlighten you, but I suspect you already know exactly what I'm talking about! :cool:

50 50

23rd Feb 2015, 21:01

I've flown SDTB aircraft and I thought they were fastidious with their maintenance. In fact proper engine handling was emphasised and critiqued just as much if not more than the actual jump. They had aircraft on blocks waiting to get re-weighed and certified after making changes, and more LAMEs than I've ever seen in a single hanger.
The C208 they use near me was brand new when they bought it. Doesn't get a whole lot better.

Nibbles2310

24th Feb 2015, 04:54

Looks like they're going it as a public company... Skydive the Beach announces $20m float | Illawarra Mercury (http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2902404/skydive-the-beach-announces-20m-float/?cs=300)

fencehopper

25th Feb 2015, 08:43

Wow that's pretty ambitious. Palmer will be going woohoo. Wonder when Picton comes to the fold? If i was younger I'd take Bowie up on his job offer.
Heard that NMV is becoming a Super 'Van down in Moorabbin. 3 short flights according to flightaware today so maybe getting a shakedown before coming home. If not then it has been a good rumour.