Confidence knocked post PPL

[BlueJays]

Hello!

Has anyone had to ask a controller for a steer or vectors when lost in poor visibility? I flew at the beginning of last week and this was my first flight since gaining my PPL. I ended up being pretty unsure of my position due to really strong haze and a very low sun at that time of the day. It's just totally knocked my confidence. I was on my way back to my home airfield. Edit: I did end up asking for a vector back home.

[pulse1]

Welcome to the PPL learning club. At least you had the gumption to ask for help. When I did something similar I tried to do it on my own and got so disorientated I landed on the wrong runway.

It is one of those learning experiences which are very valuable as long as we do learn from them. As they say, a PPL is a licence to learn about flying. I learned to keep a mental picture of relative bearings to the nearest or home airfield. Another lesson I learned is, in conditions with a low sun and mist, arrange to return to your airfield with the sun behind you if possible. A low Winter sun and slight mist can be quite disorientating even in the circuit.

[piperarcher]

You did the right thing, and you will learn lots, even if you get more advanced qualifications like the IR(R). There is always an opportunity for some mishap.


But to help me, I'd do two things 1: Don't fly in low viz unless you are sure it wont get worse and even prevent you from landing somewhere 2: get one of the popular GPS units / software to at least give you some situational backup and more prominent choices.


You were right to seek help though, so be confident you are making the right decisions in the air and build up to more challenging flights to increase confidence

[funfly]

Get yourself a really good GPS and teach yourself to use it.
Forget what the old timers say about this, the GPS will be your best friend when you fly and will certainly get you out of trouble sometimes.
Then get yourself instrument trained - best thing I ever did and, believe me, it makes flying a lot more easier and possibly interesting.

[Radix]

..........

[Gertrude the Wombat]

really strong haze and a very low sun
Yes, you can have "legal VFR" and an effective forward visibility of zero at the same time. In such conditions I've followed an NDB needle home from a few miles out in an area which I knew well. (Don't recall whether I bothered to turn on the GPS in the panel, the NDB needle was perfectly adequate so I might not have done.)

[rnzoli]

Has anyone had to ask a controller for a steer or vectors when lost in poor visibility?
Last summer I heard request for vectors from a pilot that got lost while trying hard to avoid a series of quickly developing thunderstorms. He didn't file a flight plan, which normally irritates our controllers, but in this case, he was given a squawk code, then the vectors shorly after, and also flight following service until he reported the airfield in sight. We heard the whole story on the frequency, from the initial very tense call for help to the great relief after he found the nearest airfield to land.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Well done for asking for help rather than risking blundering into controlled airspace. I'm an 'old timer' but I agree - GPS is wonderful!

Many decades ago I flew to a distant fly in on a day like you describe, except probably worse. I could not see more than about 1/2 mile horizontally, but the view straight down was fine. so I followed a railway line. It was some 20 minutes later, when things didn't 'add up', that I realised we were following the wrong railway line!

No harm done on that occasion, but if GPS had been around back then it wouldn't have happened! But I did learn from it - I never did that again!

[londonblue]

I actually got lost on my QXC. I was between Stansted and Luton on my way back to Elstree and couldn't be sure of my position.

Instead of guess and run the risk of busting someone's airspace I used 121.5 to tell them. About a millisecond after I stopped transmitting I had a reply. They also gave me a heading to Elstree, and stayed with me until I had Elstree in sight.

IMO the most important thing is to accept you're not infallible, swallow your pride and ask for help.

However, that only counts in the air: in the car with my wife next to me, I would never admit to being lost, because I never am...ever!

[pulse1]

Yes, you can have "legal VFR" and an effective forward visibility of zero at the same time.

That is a question I have long wondered about. I was once given a straight in approach by Bournemouth radar onto 08 and told to report "Field in sight". It was a beautiful Summer evening and I couldn't see anything into the setting sun. I also used the NDB to ensure that I was on the centre line and kept being asked if I could see the field. After about the third negative I came clean and said I couldn't see anything. Somebody behind me then made the same confession and we were both cleared to continue the approach and eventually to land.

Ever since I have wondered about the legality of that "VFR" flight. If I hadn't had ADF that would have been a very unpleasant experience.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

After about the third negative I came clean and said I couldn't see anything.
Tricky, that.


Once when I admitted I still couldn't see the runway I was told to go around. Of course two seconds later the runway appeared.


I would not, of course, advise anyone to lie to ATC.

[Mach Jump]

Hi BlueJays.

A lesson learned about visibility into sun that you now realise you could have predicted with a bit of thought prior to the flight.

As mentioned several times above, 'well done' for being smart enough to ask for help.


Get yourself a really good GPS and teach yourself to use it.
Forget what the old timers say about this, the GPS will be your best friend when you fly and will certainly get you out of trouble sometimes.

Many decades ago I flew to a distant fly in on a day like you describe, except probably worse. I could not see more than about 1/2 mile horizontally, but the view straight down was fine. so I followed a railway line. It was some 20 minutes later, when things didn't 'add up', that I realised we were following the wrong railway line!

No harm done on that occasion, but if GPS had been around back then it wouldn't have happened! But I did learn from it - I never did that again!


There are three risks associated with flying into deteriorating visibility:

1. Hitting other aircraft.

2. Becoming disoriented, and losing control.

3. Getting lost.


Of these three, the one that seems to concern most pilots, way beyond the other two, is getting lost.


As we have now as good as eliminated the risk of getting lost, with the almost universal presence of moving map GPS systems., I fear that we have also eliminated the one thing that used to deter most pilots from continuing to fly into deteriorating weather.



MJ:ok:

Ps. You can't legally be 'VMC' and at the same time have a visibility of '... no more than about 1/2 mile horizontally...'

[Rod1]

BlueJays,

I second the idea of getting a good GPS - I would recommend PFMS Easy VFR on Android but there are others. Secondly - find an experience PPL who is prepared to be your mentor and help you in the transition between the book and real life. This swill help boost your confidence.

Rod1
PS I am not too far away so if you would like a trip with me drop me a PM.

[Crash one]

I have on two occasions arrived at my home field with a low sun, haze & runway 24 impossible to see the ground. The field is grass with at least 150 metres of landable width at the left side, estimating height from the adjacent clubhouse and missing the strip by 50metres, set land attitude and wait for the bump is not a good way to behave! Therefore I haven't flew 24 on this kind of days since.
As for telling someone you're lost, absolutely agree.

[flybymike]

I actually got lost on my QXC.
I got lost in the circuit on my second solo.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Ps. You can't legally be 'VMC' and at the same time have a visibility of '... no more than about 1/2 mile horizontally...'

In that case, it must have been further. ;)

[Maoraigh1]

Airspace Avoid is free.
PS I've had 15+ miles viz flying away from field and sun - and virtually zero ahead when I turned to return, but good lateral viz.

[skyking1]

sometimes it pays to fly a 3 leg course that lets you "quarter" on the sun. Think of an old sailing vessel beating to windward :)

[A and C]

You did everything right ! All pilots have had this type of learning experience and are better pilots for it.

The place that I differ from a lot of those above is that I would advise you to first re-visit your VFR navigation training and practice these skills as this skill is essential to being a pilot.

There is far to much reliance on GPS amongst PPL holders who over use the GPS, spend far too much time head in the cockpit looking and don't think past what is on the screen......... This is not a problem while the thing is working but as soon as the GPS quits the workload goes through the roof because the pilot has been thinking follow the GPS Not about his next waypoint or the heading he is using to maintain track.

Most GPS units used by PPL holders who rent aircraft are reliant on battery's or power from a very cheap cigar lighter socket in the aircraft with yards of wire hanging from them and so are inherently unreliable.

I now look forward to ten or so posts calling me everything from a Luddite to an out of date old fart who won't except modern technology to an idiot for not excepting the reliability of the latest thing that some have got from the Transair catalogue but aviation is seeing an increasing number of accidents that are as a result of over reliance on technology the worst example being the two pilots who put a perfectly viable airliner into the Atlantic ( along with 200 or so trusting souls ) because some technology failed and they did not know the pitch and power settings for straight & level flight.

Basic flying skills are the basis for safe flight and until these are second nature don't errode your skill base with too much technology................. The industry will try its best to do that as you move on !

[Rod1]

A and C, I agree with a lot of what you say but;

As a newly qualified PPL his traditional skills are probably good

In the conditions described a GPS would have been worth its weight in gold.

The transition from newbie to experienced PPL will involve GPS...;)

Rod1

[A and C]

You are undoubtedly correct that GPS will become part of flying for most PPL holders but navigating an aircraft should always be about pointing the aircraft in the right direction for the right amount of time ( and backing this up with the GPS )........ Not following a magenta line and hoping for the best.

One should have an inherent distrust of things powered by battery's and cigar lighters, they have a habit of going wrong just when you most need them. The latest panel mounted GPS equipment is of a much higher order of reliability and so deserves a position much higher in the navigation pecking order.

All this being said I fly an aircraft with 2 GPS, 2 IRU, 2 VOR/ILS, 5 DME & 1 ADF. But we still have a navigation log (plog) with the times and headings calculated............. So If it all goes dark over the middle of the Atlantic we can still have a good crack at finding correct part of the coast with some accuracy using the compass and a wrist watch.

[Less Hair]

Don't fly solo in marginal weather. Get some fair weather practice on easy routes first. Take some instructor with you to practice and show you how to handle MVFR. Use available VORs along your routes. Don't get overconfident and stay cautious. Get detailed weather briefings before any flight. Don't be shy to cancel some flight if you are not comfortable with the weather, daytime or aircraft. Keep enjoying it.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Don't fly solo in marginal weather.
I suspect that part of the difficulty in this case might have been failing to realise before take-off that the weather would be marginal (when trying to navigate into the sun).

[300hrWannaB]

I still vividly recall one flying lesson, departing Manchester (how old am I?) as one of the very few training flights to depart. The AFI and myself crawled out along the standard route via the Crewe railway line, past Jodrell Bank. Visibility was nailed on the grotty minimum. We were not lost at any point. Right until we reached the Zone Boundary. Then the big open fields and FIR beckoned, and with equally dismal visibility I decided that it was rather unpleasant and could I go home please?

I think that the Assistant Flying Instructor was equally happy turn around and grope home. I wonder to this day whether he has testing my decision making ability, just along for the joy ride, or merely clocking hours at my expense. Probably all 3.

[marioair]

From my experience you get very few chances to independently make a go-no-go decision during your PPL based on weather. The FI normally does this for you apart from your test and maybe your QXC

The lack of this plus the eagerness to use your hard earned PPL is a dangerous mix.

If you're flying for fun, save your cash for a nicer days westher (and get a good met weather app - but dont just read the current METAR and TAF..... Learn to understand the TRENDS that the TAF show in relation to the FRONTS. )

[thing]

Plenty of radar weather type stuff available these days. Look at the TAFs along your route and get a radar picture. Can't go far wrong doing that. However you can still get caught out even with all that modern technology can throw at you so have a plan B.

[RatherBeFlying]

Until you are qualified for night flying, plan your flights with sufficient time before sunset.

Being lost during daylight is much simpler to work out than being lost at night and confronting your first ever night landing.

[Pace]

I read an article where the biggest cause of aircraft accidents has now changed to loss of control accidents.

Is this a reflection of the change of emphasis to recovery at incipient in training and hence a lack of confidence in pilots of being able to handle situations whether weather related or loss of control of the aircraft?

there was a interesting article posted here by a pilot who was scared stiff of practising stalls on his own.

it transpired that he was scared of the aircraft going beyond what he had been taught into a spin or spiral dive or much more dramatic stall behaviour he had never learnt.

The worst fear is fear of the unknown.

there are more and more accidents caused by loss of control and too much emphasis is placed on pilot aids fancy displays and automation an dnot enough on the handling pilot.

reading some of the Cirrus chute pulls makes me want to bash my head against a brick wall at some of the needless reasons for a chute pull.

The pilot with a fear of stalling took himself off for aerobatic training with a sympathetic instructor so he could explore out of the box situations and become more comfortable with his abilities.
and that is what its all about CONFIDENCE that you can handle any situation which occurs. Its not like a car where you can be parked up within seconds you are stuck with what happens with weather or otherwise and if your skills are not up to it you naturally will be nervous of getting into a situation which you cannot handle

Pace

[PTR 175]

Firstly, Bravo for having the courage to own up to your failings and using D and D to help you out. They are not only there for the nasty things in life.

One thing i have not seen mentioned is to fly with another pilot. This can take the load off. It means that you can concentrate on the Aviate bit first and have your friend in the RH seat helping you navigate.

That is what I did. It works well. I am at the moment legal but not current with my club so once current again I will find a PPL who is supping tea and we will go somewhere local for an hour. All it cost is a cup of tea and a bun if you land away.

Also as a confidence builder go on a land away somewhere local it does not need to be far, choose somewhere you went with your instructor, ideally at a place that does flying training. They will be more tolerant and you can have a laugh together later at the c0ck ups you made enroute and the bad RT you did. I second the GPS. I use an oldish monocrome Garmin. Which I use to compare my position.

Enjoy it. It is supposed to be fun. Before you go up ask others, if possible, what the Wx is like as well as looking at and understanding the Met. A good club will not be unhappy if you Cx your booking.

[cherokeephil]

get yourself instrument trained - best thing I ever did and, believe me, it makes flying a lot more easier and possibly interesting


I did the IMC 15hr plus test back in '84 at Clacton Airfield, three years post completion my PPL. Some 15 years later this training proved invaluable. On a local hop around Caernarfon, my home airfield in OK weather with some haze, decided to play cautious and return to the field only to discover a visiting aircraft had had a mishap in the middle of the landing runaway 26R.
At this stage weather was pretty good so circled around a few miles from the field whilst these guys were wrestling their damaged craft off the runaway.
The inevitable occurred and without warning a thick foggy haze rolled in from the west taking viz down to around 800 metres or so. Several urgent calls to the controller to expedite the aircraft off the landing area as they (controller and aircraft guys) seemed to be taking too long, probably not realizing the viz was deteriorating

In all honesty I can say that had I not been through that excellent IMC training course which included blind take offs (that was a real confidence booster in itself) things might have been very unpleasant. Best advice, get some instrument traing in as soon as you get your ppl. it might save your life one day and give you extra confidence. That training you go through though is a back up as a last resort. The GPS also has it's uses but even that will not get you out of etreme weather. Know your limitations and you will be OK

[Gertrude the Wombat]

blind take offs
Did one of those during PPL training. Never did one on the IMCr course!

[cherokeephil]

Did one of those during PPL training




Hi, that is interesting to hear, as the only instrument training as far as I remember was putting on the hood and keeping to an assigned course heading. It felt quite weird though, during the IMC putting on full power and lifting off at 65 by concentrating on the altimeter and VSI, most important keeping the old girl heading straight down the runaway with rudder
Digreeing slightly, I guess much has changed since 1981 PPL training, am not sure that full spins are part of a basic PPL syllabus now, but if not, it's a shame perhaps as one knows what to expect if all goes haywire. My first spin with my instructor (a current RAF Pilot at that time) was bloody terrifying, (remember grabbing the seat eyes closed) but after a couple of shots doing it, it seemed OK, certainly got the adrenalin going

[WiggleMyStick]

GPS. End of story.