R66 flight in snow prohibited

[jymil]

I was pretty amazed to find out that flight in blowing or falling snow is prohibited by the R66 POH. In winter time, occasional snowfall is not too uncommon, so this is quite a significant operational limitation. The R66 is already on the market for quite a while in FAA land, did nobody there complain about this yet ? Or is the R66 just used for tours in FL and CA ?

[NickLappos]

I would bet it is work yet to be performed to assure that snow/ice doesn't form around engine inlets. The US requires extensive testing to show that the engines run happily in flight from hover to Vne. Until these tests are entirely successfully passed, the prohibition is a blanket one.

[HeliHenri]

so this is quite a significant operational limitation

Hello jymil,

Does that mean Swiss operators buy helicopters ( for example, 4 R66 have been registred in the last two months) and them look at their capabilities once they've received them ? Sorry, I can't imagine that.

[jymil]

Does that mean Swiss operators buy helicopters and them look at their capabilities once they've received them ?

Apparently, yes. The Cabri G2 was also bought here by operators and it has a minimum operating temperature of -5 deg celsius, which would mean no flying today. Not sure though whether this limitation is still in effect or not.

@Nick: I agree, it's all about the engine air intake, which isnt positioned too bad. But the FAA type certificate has been issued in 2010 already, is this taking really that long ?

[HeliHenri]

The Cabri G2 was also bought here by operators and it has a minimum operating temperature of -5 deg celsius

Well, it's hard to compare the R66 and the G2, Gimbal Helicopteres is not a big compagny and the G2 is just a two seats piston engine helicopter used for training, private flights and light aerial work but why not :

The G2 is certified for flight in snow conditions and the Minimum Operating Temperature is - 20° C.

By the way Swiss operators still buy G2, Swiss Helicopter AG oerates 3 G2 and will receive a fourth one this month.

[chopper2004]

Don't forget recently Heli-Line in Austria have recently delivered a 66

Cheers

[jymil]

Ok, initially the G2 was limited to -5°C, but seems like Guimbal have done some cold weather testing in the meantime.

[lelebebbel]

It doesn't have any snow deflectors (yet), so is that really surprising?

The good ol' 206 also can't fly in snow, unless you have the optional snow kit (particle separator, inlet deflectors, auto relight).

[jymil]

Nope, AS350 B2 can fly unrestricted down to a visibility of 1500m in snow. 10 minutes between 1500m and 800m. I don't think this really a limiting operational factor, because 1500m coincides with SVFR limits, i.e. you can't get out of the airport anyway if vis is below 1500m.

[Nubian]

The whole series from B up to B3+ has the same restrictions as jymil refer to, however the new B3e is prohibited from flying in falling snow without filter.

[Orin]

I was just at the Robinson Safety Course last month and Kurt Robinson mentioned the blowing snow limitation for the R66. He said they have a ship sitting in Canada and they are just waiting for the proper conditions to do the testing and get the certification. He didn't elaborate on what the specific conditions have to be, but he did say they've been waiting some time to get it done.

It may not be around the corner, but it does sound like the certification will be coming at some point down the road.

[NickLappos]

The proper FAA conditions are intense, heavy snow of the warm, sticky type. Typically 1/4 mile vis in snow and blowing snow without fog, and OAT at -4C or warmer.

These are not easy to find. The French seem to allow parsing the test out, as reported, with intermediate visibilities, the FAA and CAA have been very reluctant because it isnt very easy to control (ie you are flying in supposedly permitted 1500 meter vis in snow and now it is down to 1000. You are in violation of an operating limit, do you fly to the nearest jail? Land immediately? Suffer an engine failure and make excuses?

[Aesir]

We have those weather conditions here in Iceland everyday the last 2 months here in Iceland.

Just send one of these R66 thingies up here Fedex and we will test it :)

[feathering tickles]

Never mind snow, what about no flying after dark? (UK).

[jymil]

Huh ? Why the hell shouldn't you fly an R66 at night ? (non-commercial of course in EASA land). Is that one of the UK idiosyncrasies, like the extra lamps for night flying ?

[feathering tickles]

Exactly as you say Jymil, very handy at this time of year...