Ambassador Airways & SFT

[spitfire747]

Has anyone been to Ambassador AIrways in Naples Florida with SFT ??

I was thinking about going back to OFT, but on second thoughts the place was rough when i was there in MAy, Wonder how bad it is now, they have no information on the current situation of VISAs, Hour building etc..

Anyway I am thinking of going to Ambassador to do a IMC, Night and some hours in November, anyone got any ideas, good school, good instructors, good accommodation ?

THANKS everyone

[GoneWest]

Ambassador cannot get you a visa either.

Look for a school that can??

[Bloody long way down]

As far as I am aware you will not need to obtain a visa!
Unless things have changed since recent events you are entitled to visit the United States for a period of 90 days without needing to apply for a Visa under the Visa Waiver Program. :D
"Flight Schools" are not categorised in the same manner as Colleges or Universities and there for you will not be seen as a "Student" within Education. Nor will you be in employment so this essentially will be a "Pleasure trip".
The FAA will not be issuing the IMC for you as this doesn't exist in their regulations. Therefore as I see it you will not be undertaking any US or FAA recognised training and will not need any permission.

However this is only my OPINION and is not gospel Check out : US Emabssy (http://www.usembassy.org.uk)
This might be able to answer any questions you have. I would advise that if you are planning to take things to a higher level 'CPL' then if you do not already hold one get a Class one medical first!

Good luck :D

[GoneWest]

Many students, attending many flight schools come to the USA without a visa.

Numerous of them have been turned back - especially those entering through Pennsylvania (don't know why they are so hot there).

Flight schools still advise - because they cannot issue visas - "Just say you are coming on holiday, don't mention flying training (even though your luggage may include five volumes of Trevor Thom manuals)".

Fact remains that ANY course of training that includes more than 18 hours a week of study LEGALLY requires a visa. Easy to get - so why put so much effort into avoiding it???

The news broadcasts, especially here in Florida, are full of talk of Senators trying to make a name for themselves by insisting that the rules are tightened up for students coming to do flight training.

Yesterday they were asking that flight schools complete full background checks on all students and then take FINGERPRINTS when they arrive. These - and photocopies of passports, driving license and birth certificates be sent to both the FBI and Immigration for every student.

I.N.S. have absolutely NO REASON to not crack down on students entering the country for training. The local FAA office (Orlando) is the third largest office in the USA [behind Alaska and Miami] and proudly reports that some 20% of ALL flight crew licenses issued WORLDWIDE are issued through Orlando. (Before you jump on that statement remember that the district has the six largest flight schools in the USA in its area - including FlightSafety International, Embry-Riddle, Comair, PanAm etc).

It would be an absolute nightmare to come across the Atlantic to save money on flight training, only to be turned back at the airport of entry because you didn't fill out a visa application form in the UK.

There are legitimate schools - teaching JAA syllabii - that can issue you with a genuine, legal, visa.

[thecoltster]

So as a born and bread white hour build off to the states next month to do a 7hour JAR multi and 'hour build' you would suggest that I get a visa?! Excuse my ignorance but don't you fill out some kind of application on the plane?
Sorry if I am being an idiot!

[QUERY]

What a load of ...
It is true that you need a visa before studying at any FAA accredited professional training place but you (if Brit. or other European) do NOT need anything, other than normal tourist, fill-in form before landing, status for 'recreational flying'. That includes PPL, Multi, hour building etc. You are no different from tourists at Disney or on scuba-diving courses- it's only leisure.
I had this confirmed in writing by US embassy, so beware of people trying to fool and frighten you off going to Florida to learn to fly or for other private ratings or even to fly for fun.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

QUERY,

I suggest you take a look at Visa Explaination from U.S. Embassy in the U.K. (http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/niv/student.htm).

A small section from the page says:

"Nonacademic (M-1) Visa: A student wishing to pursue a course of study which is not principally academic in nature at an established vocational or other recognized nonacademic institution such as a post secondary vocational or business school requires an M-1 visa."

Please read the entire page. In addition you will find in the footnotes (not on that page) that any course where you are present for more than 18 hours a week is concidered a full time course requiring a visa.

Happy and Safe Flying,

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

Query,

Do you own a school in the US that is not approved for Visas? Sounds like it to me -

I just had a friend turned around at Gatwick on Sunday because he did not have an M1 visa - he was not allowed to fly and was advised to speak to the US Embassy! He is currently applying for the M1.

Looking at the web page from the Embassy, if you fill in the UK and study (which is what a licence is) it takes you to the nonacademic visa for study ie it is not a university but a course therefore the M1 is required at a minimum!

[ 26 September 2001: Message edited by: Facts Not Fiction Pls ]

[GoneWest]

OK - time to get mercenary.

Spitfire - I don't give a stuff if you get a visa or not. I don't do flight training, I don't hire out aircraft for hour building. If you want to risk your £300 on flight tickets, do it. I don't care either way.

Long Way Down - correct, you can fill out a visa waiver form on the aircraft....just like any tourist.

Coltster - I believe that a seven hour course (even if done in under than a week) is less than an eighteen hour course. No visa. Hour building has always been regarded as pleasure flying - even in Pennsylvania - come and enjoy (but I still don't rent aircraft [although I know many who do]). You are correct - fill out some form of application on the plane (it's an I-94W [visa waiver form])....it's green....and if you get one word of it wrong, you will be sent to the back of the queue and told to do it again. The form is in two parts - a big bit and a little bit.

The big bit will be kept by the Immigration officer at the airport of entry - the little bit will be stapled to your passport...on the page that the Immigration man just stamped and wrote the latest date of when you must leave the USA.

When you check in to fly back to the UK, the check in agent will ask for that little bit back - and will enter it into the I.N.S. computer.

Whilst on the subject - you will also be required to fill out a white card..with blue writing. A Customs form. This is to say that you do not have too much money, are not carrying any drugs or guns and, that you do not have an apple or a ham sandwich in your luggage. No, I'm not joking.

Query - what on Earth have you got against students doing it right?? Does "Facts Not Fiction" have a point? Your posting suggests you post from Yorks...are you an agent for a US school that cannot issue visas?

Cut and Paste: <<beware of people trying to fool and frighten you off going to Florida>>

Who is trying to put anybody off?? On the contrary, all that is being said here is aimed at ensuring that the student actually manages to get into the Country when they arrive - tell me, what has been said that can be read as trying to talk Spitfire (or anybody else) from coming to Florida?? The industry depends on people like Spitfire - they are a much needed commodity.

I have personal knowledge of THREE students that have been turned back by Immigration Officers in the USA over the four years that I have been involved with student pilots entering the USA - now, reading this thread, I hear of one being turned back by Gatwick Airport staff.

I also know that the big US schools - FlightSafety, PanAm, etc. INSIST on every student having the correct visa...even if just training for a UK PPL. Some students have slipped through the net - much to the anger of the administration office at FlightSafety. They arrived on the doorstep without a visa - one of them was refused entry to the school.

The FAA don't give a monkeys about visas - it is purely an IMMIGRATION question - and the Immigration officer is the FIRST person you will meet when getting off the plane.

If my memory serves me right, even Ambassador (mentioned by Spitfire at the start of his thread) mentions visas on their own web site (although they cannot legally get you one).

Spitfire - you please yourself, I was just trying to help. I, personally, have absolutely nothing to gain whether you cross the Atlantic or not (unless you bring some tea bags for my wife!!).

[thecoltster]

Thanks for the help GoneWest you confirmed exactly what I thought.
Cheers very much for your help!

COLT