Armed Forces alcohol abuse...

[Biggus]

BBC News - Armed forces alcohol abuse strategy criticised (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31101559)

[Basil]

"On average on a bad day - where I wasn't really in the mood - it was probably four to five pints a night.
"On a good day it could be trying to keep up with a lot of people who obviously do drink a lot more, and it could be anything from 10 to 15 pints a night."
I remember it well - thereby demonstrating that it may not be as harmful as suggested :E

Very thankful that our (old) boys night out now amounts to a max of four pints.

[Pontius Navigator]

The problem is team drinking. It is not just military. Went for a quiet drink in Shepherd's Market, every bar packed from 5 pm.

However an ACTer visiting Coningsby left the bar in the mess at 1am and attempted to drive back to Leeming at 6; didn't make it.

[goudie]

Looking at some of the capers that happen in most towns, on a Friday and Saturday night, Service guys are probably no worse than their civilian counterparts.
Drinking has always been part of Service culture, usually because there wasn't much else to do!

[Background Noise]

The Ministry of Defence said it was teaching personnel about the harmful effects of drinking too much

Ah... Demo, teach, practice.

[Sandy Parts]

One of the many things I miss about the RAF is the chance to over-indulge in booze in an environment where it is appreciated as a 'bonding-agent' and 'stress-reliever'! There will always be those who exceed their personal limits as in any walk of life. Won't be long before someone says "tax-payer funded subsidies" when we know they are the same prices any organised club could negotiate with suppliers :rolleyes:. Still, £2 a pint seems a bit steep compared to my mess bills!:p

[99 Change Hands]

I always thought I was part of a dangerously heavy drinking culture on the squadron until a CID Sergeant took three of us on a crawl in Kings Lynn one night. He outdrank us two-to-one and drove the whole night.

[NutLoose]

Heck you could even get it when you were in a military hospital as a patient :D

Ahhh...... I remember pints of Bacardi Cokes and Tizers, where it cost more to put the coke in than it did the spirits (RAFG) ......... Hic, happy days :O

[thing]

Heck you could even get it when you were in a military hospital as a patient

You could get it in NHS hospitals back in the day. Mackeson as I remember, lots of iron in it apparently.

[Wander00]

99- many years ago and living in Devon we were invited to supper by parents of kids who were friends of our young son. Both were police. Transpired that rest of the guests were SB. I was conscious that I was driving so was pretty moderate in my consumption, but otherwise I have never seen so much alcohol consumed, irrespective of the forthcoming drive home. Outdid anything I have ever seen in the RAF

[sitigeltfel]

You could get it in NHS hospitals back in the day. Mackeson as I remember, lots of iron in it apparently.

When I was in Nocton Hall they had Guinness........can't stand the stuff! :*

[Pontius Navigator]

Still, £2 a pint seems a bit steep compared to my mess bills!:p
Short arms? :)

Seriously, pub at £3.30, mess at £2, supermarket at £1.50.

Complain about low mess prices, raise prices by decree for the greater good, then wait for the law of unintended consequences to kick in.

Ban on-base drinking den and wait for the uncontrolled off base den to start up.

Fifty years ago bar bills were limited so everyone drank up to the limit and went off base when they ran out of credit. End of the month and the Merrydown party. Cider was not rationed and those that had credit bought the booze. Such an outstanding success they dropped the scheme.

Remember the boxes? Drinks heavily unwisely, heavily wisely, moderately unwisely etc?

[goudie]

At RAF Ely hospital the nurses were very quick to snap up any Guinness not consumed by patients.
My brother was in the Met., he and colleagues certainly liked a serious drink!

moderately unwiselyPN Looking back I think that summed me up:O

[Sandy Parts]

PN - how very dare you! ;) I was referring to the fact I don't think a pint in the mess ever cost more than about £1.80 even for wifebeater!! I'm sure the messes I enjoyed weren't the only ones to vote every year to keep the profit margin nice and low (5%? from memory - too much beer!). I feel HM forces do enough already to highlight the dangers and as others have said, a comparison with other organisations might highlight this. This (non)story seems to appear every few years for some reason.

[Exascot]

Speaking for myself I can't recall any heavy drinking sessions in the Royal Air Force :E

[Haraka]

Watching the Guinness Tanker pulling in to Farnborough at the beginning of yet another stint at the display years ago, reminded me of the definition of a good SBAC week as being one in which more alcohol was consumed than aviation kerosene.

[newt]

"We have rigorous processes in place to discipline personnel who make poor choices regarding alcohol consumption, and treatment mechanisms in place for those with genuine alcohol problems"

They had those in my day! Station Commanders bollocking and banned from the Mess bar for three weeks! Not a problem! Stand in the flower bed outside the bar window and the boys pass you a beer!:ok:

[Tankertrashnav]

When I was in Nocton Hall they had Guinness........can't stand the stuff!

When Mrs TTN was a QARANC midwife at BMH Hong Kong, Guinness was provided for the Gurkha mothers, who apparently loved it.

I could never stand it either!

I blush to think of what I used to get up to. Fell off my motorbike riding home after a Friday afternoon session in the crewroom and fortunately ended up unhurt giggling on the grass verge. Drove home to Swaffham after a dining in where I got so smashed that I forgot I'd booked a room in the mess :O. In those days if I'd been pulled over I'd have been out on my ear in short order (happened to a chum).

These threads are a bit like the low-flying ones. Great for those of us who got away with it - not so funny for those who didnt.

[Willard Whyte]

Not sure about any abuse going on , I was always on very friendly terms with Messers Shiraz and Cabernet-Sauvignon. My best mate was Mr Daniels though.

[MPN11]

I regret the intensive 30 years training I had in various locations over my Service years, ranging from Bugis Street to the Opera Tavern [off Kingsway, near Covent Garden].

I have spent £49.25 today doing a minor re-stock of the cellar, as our local wine merchant has a 20% discount offer this week ...

... now please excuse me, as I have some intense tasting to carry out.

Hic.

[Pom Pax]

Heck you could even get it when you were in a military hospital as a patient
In RAF Ely hospital there was a bottle (a large one?) of either IPA or Guinness each evening. However being on traction with my feet being higher than my head I had to drink through a plastic tube. Unfortunately this caused me considerable gastric pain as I swallowed all the bubbles! As a result I donated my ration to the S/L SP Scottish gentleman in the next bed.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, unlike Exascot I think I can remember.

Remember at Akrotiri one night, took a short cut from No1 Mess to my block behind No2 Mess. Arrived at a curb and cautiously gunned my moped so as not to damage front wheel, then eased the throttle. Then fell over, happens when you aren't moving.

I could fill a thread.

[kaitakbowler]

Anyone remember the Staish at Gut shutting the bars at lunchtime? I can't remember if it was Mike Stear or Dick Johns. I seem to remember it was strictly enforced even when VIP's were being hosted. Civvy canteen still served booze though, our WO informed our civvy fitters that any one smelling of booze would be given a formal written warning and sent home. Never had a problem

PM

PS from my lowly view in MTMF they were both top blokes.

[Random Bloke]

When I joined my first Squadron I flew with an old spec aircrew nav who had served on Shackletons at Ballykelly. He told me that there was once uproar when a new Stn Cdr decided to limit the duty SAR crew's alcohol intake to 3 pints each!

[Fareastdriver]

Got airborne in a Puma from Practica del Mare (Rome) enroute to the UK via Cognac. Opened the inflight rations kindly supplied by the Italian Air Force and there was a bottle of Chianti.

When in Rome...........

[Wander00]

I too remember the bottle of Guinness each evening in the orthopaedic ward at RAFH Ely

[Lima Juliet]

Three points (no that's not Irish for 'pints'!):

1. If you don't let the chaps/chapesses have a beer then they'll find something else illegal to imbibe.

2. Working with a bit of a hangaover in peacetime helps you cope when on ops and the 'sh!t hits the fan' - doing it without that hangover makes it a breeze!

3. If I can't buy a beer in my own Mess for <£2 a pint then let's stop the great unwashed from buying it cheaper in LidLs!

LJ

[Pontius Navigator]

Leon, please, where else can I buy it?

$eriously I enjoy a bottle of strong ale rather than several pints of the weaker p**s.

Right now it is a can of San Miguel.

sent from Lanzarote

[The Oberon]

I think most of the problem is the strength of current day alcohol. When I were a lad 8 -10 pints no problem but with 4.5 - 5% beers these days, forget it. The same applies to wines, the average plonk used to be about 8%, nowadays 13 - 14% not uncommon.


Perhaps it's just an age thing ?

[BEagle]

If you look at the likes of Worthington 'E', Whitbread Tankard, Watneys Red Barrel, Youngers Tartan etc., they weren't actually that much weaker than pub beers of today.

Bland, brown and fizzy - they were all pretty dire.

[The Oberon]

Beags, my mistake, I forgot about Worthy E, Stamford Friday market, Bill Patten's open all day. Favourite haunt for Wittering nightshift.

[Educated Armourer]

When going through IOT a few years ago as a slightly older and maybe sensible officer cadet we had a dining in night very close to the end to say goodbye to the training officer who had been posted. At about midnight after I had drank copiously at the meal and at the bar the games started - first game a team rowing one. There was chugging invloved and I decided that if I had to drink a pint in a oner then it would be revisiting the bar very quickly so I said I wouldn't play. A couple more in our flight agreed with me and suddenly there weren't enough to put a rowing team up. Next day and for the next week we were duty flight. Not an onerous duty, but it still rankles me that we were punished for sensible behaviour. I suppose if I had had a couple more I would have said 'to the hell with it' and taken part - so maybe it was my fault for being a lightweight.

[Pontius Navigator]

EA, I think you were right, the heavy drinking belonged to the youth and the alcoholic.

With maturity, a wife and kids at home, and a choice of a Friday night sleeping it off in the mess or an abstemious dining in night, the family came first.

The execs, longing for the traditions of the old days really didn't like responsible adults.

[MPN11]

In 65, may father was in conversation with an ex-RN officer and told him I was about to join the RAF. The response was, "Ah, the drinking Service."

Sadly, either because I was easily led or simply an incipient alcoholic, I found that to be the case. Fifty years later, I'm still drinking far more than I should.

Perhaps I was unlucky with the places I was posted, where drinking substantially was the norm?

[TyroPicard]

newt..

They had those in my day! Station Commanders bollocking and banned from the Mess bar for three weeks! Not a problem! Stand in the flower bed outside the bar window and the boys pass you a beer!]
And all the boys' beers were on your mess bill! Happy days...

[victor tango]

mp11 REYR#20

Bugis St ................aaahhhhhhh

[Wensleydale]

I was once written up on my ACR for not drinking in Happy Hour - the fact that I had a 17 mile commute on a motorcycle with keen police about did not come into it!

[MPN11]

I recall vividly being interviewed by my Flt Cdr at OCTU about the size of my Mess Bill, and being asked if I had 'independent means' ;) The next month was slightly larger, but no comment was made.

During my GCA course at Shawbury in 66, I achieved a Mess Bill that was larger than my pay, but sadly I have lost/misplaced the evidence. But it was ...
Pay = £52/10/0
Mess Bill = £54/12/6

Ahh, happy days of youth :D

[victor tango]

You service chaps are so lucky with a pint at £2. We in civil aviation have to pay what the great unwashed pays.

Hang on, that makes me part of the great unwashed.......
I represent that !!!:=

[MPN11]

And are we now to compare Civil and Military pay scales? :cool:

Moving swiftly on ... whose round is it? I've lost track ... arrgh ... <thud>

[Pontius Navigator]

VT, did you drink in UK or just duty free down route?

Be thankful you were never force fed Brandy Sours in Transit Bar at Luqa, kokinelli in Niazis,Tennents in Gan, or Tiger with Horses' Neck chasers in Changi.

[Sandy Parts]

VT - The price of drink in MoD bars is not subsidised. In Mess bars, the contracted supplier (whoever that is these days?) sets the 'trade' price based on the volume ordered. The Mess committee then set the profit margin (and get it approved by the membership). Not surprisingly, this profit is set very low hence the reasonable prices at the bar! Sqn bars, line bars, sports club bars follow a similar model. 'General' or non-membership bars on the bases are run on purely commercial basis so will have prices set by the contractor running the facility. However, even they know that if they don't keep prices below the local area, the 'troops' will go there instead.
Any organisation could opt to run a bar under the 'mess' model and many ex-service clubs do just that. When I were a lad, the cheapest beer near me was in the Dowty club at Staverton - comparable prices with Innsworth messes at the time I believe.
With the advent of PAYD and sole-contractor arrangements for Station bars, all the above may have now changed :{ - but that was how it was in my experience.

VT - apologies if that is not what you were getting at with your post re the great unwashed not getting beer at £2 a pint. Just wanted to put to bed the idea that all service men and women are drinking at prices somehow directly subsidised from the taxpayer. Next people will be thinking they get free accommodation as well!

[Jayand]

Back in the early 90s in RAFG if you weren't drinking heavily five-six nights a week there was something wrong with you.

[Sandy Parts]

Jayand - must be why my old man did so well at Bruggen! His bicycle seemed to have a tendency to steer into the ditch along the path from base to Elmpt on a regular basis!

[LowObservable]

I regret the intensive 30 years training I had in various locations over my Service years, ranging from Bugis Street....

I thought that had to do with target classfication and weaponeering rather than alcohol.

[teeteringhead]

One always thought Bugis Street was the origin of the Flight Safety slogan: "Don't assume, check!" :E

Strangely, when strolling in Birmingham recently, en route to the ballet from New Street Station, one saw a restaurant named after said Singaporean thoroughfare. But I shudder to think what the dress code might have been!! :eek:

[goudie]

But I shudder to think what the dress code might have been!!

Or the real gender of the lovely waitresses:eek:

[NutLoose]

Jayand - must be why my old man did so well at Bruggen! His bicycle seemed to have a tendency to steer into the ditch along the path from base to Elmpt on a regular basis!


He was lucky, rumour control when I was there, had someone waking up in the morning after passing out in or near a ditch on the married patch to find he had a sore arse, I believe they traced the bugger.. pun intended.


.

[Pontius Navigator]

Or the real gender of the lovely waitresses:eek:
The rule of thumb was 'if it's ugly you're ok, but do check for pox next day'

[MPN11]

Or the real gender of the lovely waitresses
Well, as you divert to that aspect, 'Christine' was a nice chap ... we had our regular table at Mick's makan stall in Bugis Street, and 'Christine' would come and chat if there was no trade around. 'She' even bought a round occasionally. 'She' was no trouble - just saw things from a different perspective than the rest of us.

'She' told us her clothes were bought for 'her' by a BA Captain :ouch:

[goudie]

'She' told us her clothes were bought for 'her' by a BA Captain
MPN11

I took Mrs G down Bugis St. with a party of friends. The wives were really peed off because the 'chaps' were better dressed than they were!

[Basil]

'She' told us her clothes were bought for 'her' by a BA Captain
A, now deceased, RAF Argosy captain went off with one and subsequently pleaded that he thought it was a girl.
OK, Skip; if you say so :rolleyes:

[goudie]

went off with one
Basil
A work colleague who had served in the RN told me that's what he did.
He said 'I put my hand there and found a bloody 'toggle and two'!

Some years ago my local publican went out to Singapore and came back with some pics of the Bugis St talent.
One night the local rugby team were in and to a man, when shown the pics, they said they they would definitely shag any one of them.
They were in utter dis-belief when he told them they were blokes. I took great joy in confirming their worst fears.

[Fareastdriver]

The wives were really peed off because the 'chaps' were better dressed than they were!

Our wives were really peed off because the 'chaps' were better looking than they were.

[goudie]

because the 'chaps' were better looking than they were.

Agreed FED but we blokes thought it best not to tell our wives!

[LowObservable]

Not that anything like that goes on these days. There is no Insane Equine nor Social Establishment of Juliet's Partner in the Multistory Establishment of Ladies.

DAMHIKT

[Basil]

One night we took three PMs down there from Changi and the Chinese waiter with a sense of humour walked up and asked "What you six gentlemen like to drink?"

[jindabyne]

Many happy memories of the 'culture'. Down to 4-5 pints, 3-4 nights a week now; these days I call it medicinal. Everything in good working order, brain excepted :ok: