Conversion advice sought

[gfunc]

Hi Folks,

I've moving back to the UK after 13 years overseas and I'm looking for advice on the best route converting my licence and the general lay of the land. Hopefully you'll forgive my basic questions as I have been out of the loop for a good while.

I have a very old UK PPL and shiny new Australian CPL (SE VFR) with an instructors rating plus tailwheel & aeros endorsements. My "simple" aim is to fly for a living - I am an aviation anorak, so I honestly don't mind if it were to be GA or bigger things. I'd be really grateful for any input to the following questions:

1) What route is most likely to lead to employment in the UK at the current time - pursuing a career as an instructor, or one of those airline FO schemes (e.g. Ryanair etc)?

2) Regarding the UK CPL - it looks like most CPL courses include a multi-engine IR. Is this typically expected for those applying for instructor jobs?

3) I am aware I have to take at least the CPL exams, although for the looks of it I would be more "future proof" going straight for the ATPL exams - am I correct in my thinking that you can take the ATPL exams without taking the CPL exam (unlike in Australia)?

4) Does anyone have any practical advice for working through the ATPLs? I have a couple of old Oxford ATPL textbooks - the material looks straightforward, although there is a huge volume! What order is most logical for working through the subjects? Is it correct that attendance at some organised groundschool is required? What sort of timescale would be reasonable for a motivated chap to work through them all?

5) I will be relocating to North Yorkshire (slightly petrifying for a soft southerner from Kent!) and it looks like the closest airfield will be Leeds, with Sherburn a little further away - it looks like one school on each field, but does anyone have any advice on advantages or disadvantages of either?

Many thanks!

[Transsonic2000]

I am aware I have to take at least the CPL exams, although for the looks of it I would be more "future proof" going straight for the ATPL exams - am I correct in my thinking that you can take the ATPL exams without taking the CPL exam (unlike in Australia)? Yes, that's absolutely correct! If you're considering aviation as a career (and not just as a leisure activity) and to be more competitive, then you should definitely go for the ATP! On a time and study basis there's only little difference between the CPL and ATP. So once studying, why aim for the lower-grade license?

What sort of timescale would be reasonable for a motivated chap to work through them all? Well, difficult to give a definite answer to this question. It all depends on how much time and effort you can or are willing to put in. If you have to work a full time job and have to take care of a family, it'll probably take you longer than someone who has all day for studying. If you want to get it done in minimum time (~ 6 month) and if you can afford it (time & money wise) I'd recommend attending a full time course, like CATS or Bournemouth Flight Training. If we're talking about distance learning, I'd say a realistic time frame would be between 12 - 18 month (if everything goes as planned, but as you know life is full of surprises). You might want to take a look at Bristol Ground School regarding distance learning, the school has a pretty good reputation. But don't underestimate the time and afford you have to put in the ATP studies, that's actually the biggest hurdle of the conversion!

[paco]

"On a time and study basis there's only little difference between the CPL and ATP. So once studying, why aim for the lower-grade license?"

There is about a 45% difference in study material and BS. The ATP looks better on your resume, but it is a much more serious commitment. As an example, the minimum consolidation time (in the classroom) for the CPL is 25 hours - it is 65 for the ATP. The questions, however are just as badly worded :)

For the ATP, you also need to get the IR within 36 months, an MCC course and a suitable type on the licence.

For a parent with two kids and a full time job, expect about 12 months for the whole process - adjust the timescale for your circumstances. Those old Oxford books will likely be very much out of date by now. You will get notes from whatever school you sign on to.

The best advice with all flight schools is to visit them and see which ones you like.

[gfunc]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

I have two further questions:

(i) Is there a guide to the practicalities of taking the exams; I see on other threads that you have to take several exams in one sitting - are the rules for this written down somewhere succinctly?

(ii) What is all the kerfuffle about question banks? My impression is that the young guns are learning the answers, rather than material (never a good idea). There's also a lot of moaning about "useless stuff" in the syllabus (example given are characteristics of VORs, map projections, local climatology etc) - I see that it may not be directly relevant at any one particular instant, but it is underpinning knowledge and normally quite interesting. Am I just getting older or more geeky?

[paco]

You don't have to take any amount of exams - you have 4 attempts at each subject over 6 sessions, and it's up to you to arrange things to suit. However the best seems to be doing them all in 4 to leave yourself some slack. We recommend 4 - 5 - 5 in a particular order.

There used to be a trend to learn the answers, but the question banks are pretty much useless now for anything but revision - one student just reported that his Met exam contained 50% of questions that were not seen before. I myself am drumming up some more POF/Perf questions so there is a major overhaul going on.

[319driver]

Hi guys,
I have few questions about the conversion as well.
I have a FAA ATP with A320 type rating and I'm flying in Asia as FO on the 320 with a ICAO ATPL.
I passed the 14 EASA ATPL exams (UK) and I have my 1st class medical from the UK as well.
I was looking to do the skill test to convert from my FAA license but I guess the A320 type and IR are not valid anymore? last LPC in the US was in August 2013, my FAA medical is valid. Can someone confirm that I have to do a FAA LPC before the conversion? I think the original license must be valid.
My second options is convert to EASA from my ICAO ATPL from the country I'm flying in. If they recognise it.

The second question is about the PIC time to get the EASA skill test, when I did my FAA atp they took half of my SIC time for the PIC requirements, it looks like it doesn't work like that with EASA. I heard that people log PICUS time when they fly their sectors? Is that right? Or do I need an approval letter from the authority here to log as PICUS?

A last question about a TRTO offering the conversion ATPL skill test in the UK, any good contact for the conversion skill test on the A320?

Many thanks for your help.

[gfunc]

Sorry for my continual questions, but it's quite difficult going from one giant bureaucracy to another!

I've spoken to a CFI in the UK that I trust and he suggests that a bare bones CPL and instructor rating is sufficient for employment as a FI just starting out. It's probably better for the flying school as it reduces the probability of the FI running off at the first sniff of an airline job.

Given that I'm more than happy to have a career as an instructor at this stage (yes, weird I know!) I'm inclined to just convert my Aussie CPL & FI rating to the UK equivalent and get flying ASAP with minimal costs. There isn't much detail about CPL theory (compared to ATPL), can anyone recommend a CPL distance learning course? Am I correct in assuming that the CAA will not give me any credit for the Aussie CPL theory?

Cheers!

[paco]

That is correct, and the bonus is that you don't even need the CPL, just the CPL exams (as least it is for helicopters - check that for fixed wing). But it may be just as easy in the mddle of all those check rides just to do it.

There is no credit for your licence - you still have to take 13 exams. But it is only 250 hours of study overall.

Actually, there is always room for a dedicated instructor. Far too many of them have one eye on the student and the other on the clock.