For the Flying Instructors of Pprune

[Ryder19]

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if any could be me in contact with a Flying Instructor, preferably a 'Chief Flying Instructor' as NATS called it, but I'm sure this doesn't matter to much.

This is my situation - I went for my Class 1 Medical (everything went fine), but I was pulled up because I declared I had a mild/infrequent stammer. I myself was sure this couldn't be a point for a Class 1 to be rejected under but that's not the point of this thread. NATS said they would organise for a CFI to come in and test me - this is the point of this thread.

a) Has anyone every done this before? What should I expect?

b) What would you say are the key phrases used by commercial pilots of a day-to-day basis? For example, how do pilots refer and call into ATC before taking of - if they have to do so?

c) How much communication is actually involved between a pilot and radio? I imagine this will be quiet a lot and it is not an issue but it would be interest to know if, say, it was instead predominantly ATC contacting the Pilot.

Thanks

[INeedTheFull90]

A) You may be better off in the Medical forum. What exactly is it you have been asked to get? Is it to sit the RT practical exam? A FI is not qualified to say what is and what isn't a stammer nor what impact it would have but is only qualified to perform the RT tests. If this it then there a pre some good documents online.

B) Have a good look online, buy a book or get CAP413 from the CAA website.

C) There is a lot of air to ground coms particularly during take off and landing, in the TMA and if you fly anywhere East then you'll be switching frequencies and checking in every five minutes. More transmissions are instigated by ATC a compared to the pilots but regardless you need to be able to make and reply to all.

[MrAverage]

I think we all need to know a bit more before we can comment, let alone help. Did the CAA at Gatwick reject your application on these grounds or did they refer you for an assessment with someone else, a CFI (which would seem a little strange as that does not always mean a Flight Examiner) or a Radio Examiner perhaps? How does NATS fit into the story? Give us all the facts in detail and a flood of opinions and advice will follow, all of which you should sift very carefully!

[MrAverage]

and just to be pedantic Ineedthefull90 an instructor cannot carry out an RT test unless he is also a Radio Examiner.

[Whopity]

I think this is yet another example of our dysfunctional CAA. Medical Dept have recently been observed to send out SRG 1205 (https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1205ff.pdf) A quite ridiculous form which shows they clearly have no idea what a CFI is, i.e. an appointment, not a qualification! In any event the form should only be used when there has been a medical hearing issue.

I am puzzled as to what a stammer has to do with NATS?

[Stampe]

A long time ago my company flying club taught one of our cabin crew to PPL standard.I remember as a PPL examiner filling out some form of assessment for the CAA to to confirm his stammer was not affecting use of the RT.I was able to do this as the gentlemans stammer did not present at all in his use of the radio.Last I heard of him he was a 757 co-pilot with a UK carrier.I believe he used to give talks to support groups for this condition and how it could be overcome and also apppeared in a TV documentary on the subject.Inspirational!
regards Stampe

[BigEndBob]

Do you stammer when using r/t. I had a student that would lose his stammer when using the radio. I believe there was a Russian gentleman who used a headset and mike technique to cure stammers.
Sure it had something to do with delaying the voice to hearing time.
Wasn't there a hint of this in the recent film about King George VI.

[chrisbl]

Re the medical assessment. I have just helped a pilot with diabetes get restrictions removed from the medical certificate.


He had to demonstrate an in flight blood test and the test had to be observed by either a CFI or FIE.


Now I am an FE but that was not sufficient. I knew of an FE who was also an AME but as he was not a CFI or FIE he was not able to observe.


The CFI bit seems pretty consistent across the range of exercises in observation.


However this has just about been the most worthwhile thing I have done in aviation

[Duchess_Driver]

Possibly not totally helpful, but I did a SE IR for a gentleman last year who had a stammer. I would have classified it as slight, but I have no medical training on which to base my classification. Albeit at PPL level, but I can't see that making too much of a difference as he still flies in the same airspace as everybody else and speaks to the same controllers.... but what do I know?

Incidentally, I do a functional hearing assessment annually - a practical solution to see if 'you can do the job'. Not a bother really.

DD

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

I'm just wondering of the references to NATS are because the OP want's to be ATC rather than pilot?

[mrmum]

Probably the NATS reference is because the OP went to have their initial class 1 done at one of the NATS aeromedical centres at Swanwick or Prestwick, as you now can, in addition to Gatwick

[Ryder19]

Thanks for all the replies, these have been of great help and are somewhat reassuring to know that their are pilots out their with speech impediments.

However I realise that I need to give you guys a better picture.

I am 19, aspiring to be a pilot, I have no PPL and/or any related flying experience. I am currently at uni however only just found out about these schemes by BA and VAA which seem to be better than anything I can get out of full-time education. I did my research and decided to pursue the matter further, however I held back my excitement and told myself to get a Class 1 Medical from my local NATS (Swanwick) - if I failed this, I told myself it was pointless.

Come the medical, I didn't actually fail but neither did I pass. I've had asthma in the past 5 years but never had to use a inhaler - despite this i've been told I have to find a lung reactivity specialist and be cleared. I was also pulled up, as explained above, for declaring that I have a mild stutter (I don't know how I would operate over a radio though, i've never tried.)

So the doctor said they would have to get in a "CFI" which she explained to be a Chief Flying Instructor. I've been told that this CFI will somehow test me and give their feedback to be passed. I realise their is a lot of confusion regarding this, as you all have expressed, and I myself am confused because (I believe) if I hadn't have declare this I would have been passed (excluding the asthma of course). I was told by the doctor though that some authority is cracking down and actually prosecuting people who don't declare stuff.

Hope this clarifies everything!

Ta

[MrAverage]

Ryder19


Let us know how you get on please. The info may be of use to others in the future. Best of British Luck and all that.

[AJMortimer]

Do you stammer when using r/t. I had a student that would lose his stammer when using the radio. I believe there was a Russian gentleman who used a headset and mike technique to cure stammers.

Interesting.

I've seen this in students too - rather like singing, people don't tend to stammer when using the radio.

Which must be an interesting psychological phenomenon in any event?

[3 Point]

Hi Ryder 19!

An interesting situation you find yourself in! I am a CFI of an approved training organisation however that doesn't have any formal meaning in modern aeronautical parlance. A CFI (and I'm talking UK here, the term has another meaning entirely in the USA) is usually an experienced and mature Flying Instructor, usually also qualified as an examiner, who is employed as CFI by a training organisation.

The position of CFI has no formal definition within current EASA aeronautical management structures but the term is still used colloquially. Under EASA regulations the person who has formal responsibility for the delivery of training at an Approved Training Organisation is called the "Head of Training" or HoT. In my organisation I am the HoT but we still use the informal title CFI

It is possible for there to be a CFI who is not HoT, for example, a large training school might have a HoT who holds the formal and legal responsibility but working under him there could well be a CFI single engine, CFI Multi engine, CGI (Ground Instructor) etc.

I frequently perform a "functional hearing test" for a number of pilots who formally fail their medical hearing assessment but are then referred by the Medial branch to me as CFI for this assessment. It requires that I fly with them and make a practical assessment to determine if their hearing causes any functional impairment of their duties in the air. Based on my assessment the CAA then issues a normal medical.

So, picking the bones out of all this I surmise that the Medical branch are asking for you to get a functional assessment of your ability to speak clearly and to be understood while performing as member of a flight crew. If your stammer is slight (and as you say they wouldn't have known had you not mentioned it, it must be!) then I doubt it will be a problem.

Speak to the medial branch but I'd suggest that you plan to start your flying training (you don't need a medical to fly the dual training flights) at an Approved Training Organisation of your choice. Speak with the HoT at the ATO before you start and explain the situation to him. I'd anticipate that he will have a conversation with you and consider whether your stammer is likely to cause difficulty during training, assuming not he can start the training and after a few flights he can write to the medics stating that your slight stammer has no adverse affect on your ability to perform as a pilot. They will then issue the medical. Maybe they have a form he needs to complete? Ask them!

I have known and flown with several pilots who have stammers, in one case it's quite severe so I hope this will not be a show stopper for you.

Good luck!

3 Point