More part 61 madness

[Old Akro]

The Thai DCA needs an email from CASA to confirm that I still have a valid Australian licence in order to renew my Thai licence.

Should be easy??

I filled out a longer form to have my details released than the form the Thai DCA requires to renew my Thai licence. I paid the $50 fee to CASA to process this form (which is a higher fee than the Thai DCA requires to issue my Thai licence).

Then after a full month, today I get an email from CASA saying they cannot progress my request until I upgrade to a part 61 licence - which currently takes how long??? and costs how much???

All this to get a computer generated email that does no more than confirm my records with CASA.

Why are we slower, more bureaucratic, less efficient and more expensive than countries like Thailand? Which of us is the third world country?

[djpil]

Our friend was ramp-checked at a field many miles from home. All good but he had recently done something to trigger transition to a Part 61 licence so waiting for that. Told he couldn't fly until he had the flash new Part 61 licence in his hand. Extremely long walk home.
Civil Aviation Safety Authority - CASA Industry Complaints Commissioner (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_92966)

[Arm out the window]

Surely that can't be right - had he done a flight review, or what, to trigger the transfer to Part 61?

If he did a flight review and whoever did it sent in the flight review form to CASA, and your mate sent in the transfer of CAR5 details form, and a new photo (<6 months old) if they needed it, that should be all fine.

What happened to make them say he couldn't fly until he had the Part 61 licence?

[Aussie Bob]

Then after a full month, today I get an email from CASA saying they cannot progress my request until I upgrade to a part 61 licence - which currently takes how long??? and costs how much???So sorry to hear this Akro, but .... the issue should take around three weeks and the cost should be zero. I actually used the "licence reprint" Form 61-9R to get mine and filled out the fee page but was charged nothing. I did include a very brief letter stating why I needed a Part 61 now. The problem you now face is the paperwork and necessary "approved" person endorsements if you are in Thailand.

Why are we slower, more bureaucratic, less efficient and more expensive than countries like Thailand? Which of us is the third world country? Because the general population is too stupid and brainwashed to collectively say NO WAY!

All good but he had recently done something to trigger transition to a Part 61 licence so waiting for that. Told he couldn't fly until he had the flash new Part 61 licence in his hand. Extremely long walk home.More fool him for believing the CASA dude. Your old licence counts till the new one is issued. I would have waved a birdie and flown off.

[Ixixly]

I recently did an AFR and a SEIFR to get my Part 61 for a new job and was informed that there is a strong possibility that as CASA apparently stored much of the old CAR 5 Licence Details on paper that this was no longer able to be found... I was told this when I asked about getting verification sent overseas as well, this was from an ATO I should mention!!

[Arm out the window]

That's why they have that transfer of CAR5 form, you send in certified copies of your log book pages or any relevant proof of anything you think you should be entitled to (and the certification can be done by an instructor carrying out a flight review, say, so you don't have to get a JP or whatever), and it gets put on your Part 61 licence.

If they have lost anything, all you have to do is prove you had it originally via log books etc and you'll get it, plus the first Part 61 issue is supposed to be free, so get everything you possibly can included when you first get one issued.

Edit: if there's something you think they missed, there's another form to redress that.

[Jabawocky]

Couldn't organise a root in a brothel with a fist full of fifties!

:ugh:

I am about to suffer the transition…..will be fun. If any of the above debacles are applied…..I WILL be flying whenever I need or want to, regardless.

I am over moronic government and big business. I had to have a very loud and stern bit of education to a major world brand name company today, because I could not recall what identifying document I may have used around 15-25 years ago. FFS :ugh:

No mercy for morons(or companies/government) from me any more. Dummy ejected! :ok:

[Pinky the pilot]

No mercy for morons(or companies/government) from me any more. Dummy ejected!

Struth Jaba! It took me until my recent 60th Birthday to get to that point.:eek:

Something must really have pissed you off badly to come to that point at your age!:ooh:

[Strainer]

Spoke to CLARC the other day and they were up to processing Part 61 licences that had paper work lodged with them on the 3/11/14. Not long to wait now!

[Frank Arouet]

Be careful Jaba. Remember CAsA morons have friends in low places.


You're welcome to come to the BRB soiree later this week. It's an Irish theme, to be sure to be sure.

[Jabawocky]

Pinky, you are damned right.

My wife reckons I am not unlike Jerremy Clarkson heading towards that show "grumpy old men"……and I think I am happy about that. :}

Too many reasons I am disillusioned with the world and people who just can't do the right thing. I am over dumb company policy, dumb government policy……and morons in general.

My friend Walter Atkinson says that after he started battling cancer he realised life was to short to take **** from assholes. And he lives by that. If you are an asshole….don't even bother trying to trying to make an appearance in his world. You won't exist.

[Defenestrator]

Paperwork submitted in the first week of August. Part 61 Licence issued in first week of December. Agree with previous poster re CAR Licence. No problems with continuing to work/fly until issue of part 61 credentials.

D:ugh:

[Clare Prop]

Some kind of international database of ICAO licences would save all this crazy and time consuming checking that an overseas licence is "real". Just another layer of cost delays and bureauocracy

Perhaps, with the guy who had been ramp checked, the person who did his flight review hadn't entered it correctly onto his CAR5 licence?

[manymak]

CASR 202.263 outlines transitional provisions of Part 61.

202.263 Continuation of old authorisations
(1) Despite the amendments, an old authorisation that was in force immediately before 1 September 2014 is continued in force on and after 1 September 2014 according to its terms.

[Judd]

CASR 202.263 outlines transitional provisions of Part 61.

Quote:
202.263 Continuation of old authorisations
(1) Despite the amendments, an old authorisation that was in force immediately before 1 September 2014 is continued in force on and after 1 September 2014 according to its terms.


I wonder if that applies to CPL holders who have all the qualifications (Theory passes and flying hour requirement) to obtain an ATPL before 1 September 2014? In other words no specific ATPL flight/simulator test. For example, a recent amendment to the Part 61 stated the requirement to have passed an MCC course before applying for an ATPL flight test, has been delayed until 31 August 2016? Yet when asked, a CASA person at FCL stated on the phone that notwithstanding this change, an applicant for a flight test for the ATPL must still have passed a CASA approved MCC course.

The Catch 22 is there is no CASA approved MCC course and where there are MCC courses such as at FTA (in Adelaide) the MCC course there is not valid for the average ATPL candidate in Australia since the courses are only for overseas airline cadets such as Dragonair and Cathay.

To add salt into the wound JetConnect and some other Australian airlines refuse to interview prospective candidates unless they hold an Australian ATPL. So we now have the ridiculous situation where pilots with well over the minimum hours to qualify for an Australian ATPL and who have 1500 hours plus on aircraft like Airbus and Boeing cannot get an interview with some Australian and New Zealand operators.

At the same time, other pilots who picked up their ATPL before Part 61 came into force last year and may have only flown singles and light twins and no specific flight test are considered OK to get an interview...

In addition, CASA have consistently refused to accept Boeing 737/Airbus experience even of 1500 hours on type plus, as acceptable equivalent for the MCC course if the flying was in a non VH registered 737 or A320. Their reason given is CASA has no regulatory control of overseas operators. But on the other hand CASA do accept flight time logged in foreign AOC operators (but not for MCC purposes) Go figure.

[Ramjet555]

For some time I've been trying to write a translation of the
some of the regulations from Australia in to FAA and Canadian and its
like trying to swim thru a kelp bed in a $hit farm.

Following the US and Canadian regs is easy enough, but
when you get to the Australian is a nightmare of acronyms
with expressions that make it like learning another language,
the language of CASA.

[Old Akro]

CFTO the trouble for me is that it's not ops normal. It's preventing my Thai licence renewal.

[Arm out the window]

Definitely ring or email them, they've been very helpful recently when one of our students needed to expedite a licence issue for personal reasons.

If you don't get any joy ringing CLARC direct, I'd recommend going through whoever the safety adviser is for your region (or wherever you do most of your flying in Australia I suppose, if you're overseas now) - ours up here (who is Sydney based) has been extremely helpful and will often get back to us within the day with help on the Part 61 front.

[Old Akro]

After escalating to a supervisor, I did get a rational response from CLARC. As I heard it, CASA considers that CAR5 licences are no longer legal licenses, which is why they will not confirm them.

Don't ask why we can still fly on CAR5 licenses, I just didn't want to go there.

CASA has undertaken to issue me a new Part 61 license within 1 week. You heard right - 5 business days!!!

So, now I have a fistful of logbook pages and photos to be certified so its all in Canberra ready for Tuesday and we'll see what happens.

[djpil]

Let us know how it goes, Akro (or may I call you Old?).
A friend got his Part 61 licence but none of his flight activity endorsements were on it despite providing all the right info and ticking the right boxes on the right form.

[Old Akro]

I got a very nice follow up email from the Thai DCA today asking why it was taking so long to get a response from CASA. I forwarded it to CASA. Hopefully they are duly embarrassed by being slow and inefficient compared with a "third world" country.

[thorn bird]

Thailand third world???

As heard on the radio, old Akro, from an American crew who had just been pineappled by ASA:

"Welcome to Australia, the only third world country where you can drink the water!!"

[Old Akro]

CASA have now sent an email to the Thai DCA saying that they are unable to confirm my licence until I fill out the release form and pay the fee.

I did this on Dec 4, the Thai DCA know I did this on Dec 4 and I have 2 emails from CASA acknowledging that that have received it.

I'm embarrassed to be Australian and to be represented by such incompetent public service at the moment.

[Jabawocky]

Detail the scenario and order of events and send it to Mr Skidmore.

Ask him how he would feel being left stranded by this level of poor service. And what he intends to do about it. CC to the minister.

[Old Akro]

Jaba

On it now...

[aroa]

Unfortunately, Old Akro the bureaurats are not our elected "represententives" that we can vote out of office for incompetance.(I wish)
The pollie wafflers are that ...and they just let the bureaucracy do its thing.

It will be done in their way, in their own good time and if it causes angst, delays and financial impost...so what?..not their problem.! :mad:

Thats why yr file can lie on a couple of desks for months while those 'servants that dont serve' or care, have "stress" leave or holidays. :mad:

Skidmore may well get you a quick response.
The miniscules office might respond....in about 6 months, if at all.:mad:
Rotsa ruck.

[thorn bird]

Better still,
Lodge a claim for loss of income, stress, with the small claims court

[currawong]

Bet you could not con road users into carrying several sheets of A4 as a licence.

News Flash CASA - not all pilots fly with a filing cabinet.

Got mine in the post today.

Missing stuff, of course.

Called them about it.

Now have to fill out forms and send notarised documents because they cannot do their F:mad:KING jobs properly.