Medicals v licence type ATPL(H)?!

[Richthepilot]

Hi all,

Question.....

If I have a PPL(H) with a Class 2 medical and pass my ATPL(H) exams then get a Class 1 medical...

a) do I still have a PPL(H) until I have 155 hours whereby which I have a frozen ATPL(H) until I have the required hours to unfreeze the ATPL(H) ?

b) If I then have a frozen ATPL(H) and choose not to renew the Class 1 medical but opt for the Class 2 medical (every 2 years rather than every 6 months at my age) which licence do I then have ? Am I at that point a PPL(H) again (because I no longer have a Class 1 medical) ?

I was thinking this through the other day and can't see the answer ! I assume you revert to a PPL(H) due to the lapse of the Class 1 medical.

Also, does anyone see any value in "just" doing the CPL study and exams rather than ATPL(H) ?
I was looking at Bristol ground school and Cranfield - anyone have any experience of either DISTANCE LEARNING ?

Thanks in advance and be safe in the sky:)

Rich

[Hot_LZ]

Rich,

Correct me if iv understood you wrong but it's not as simple as you are implying below.

A. You cannot upgrade your licence from a PPL just by completing the ATPL exams and flying hours. In order to upgrade you would need to have hour built from PPL, gone through a CPL flight course, passed the flight test and already have your ground exams in the bag. No point in starting the CPL work unless you have a Class 1.

B. Tricky one as on your licence you will have CPL until you have got all your flight experience and passed your ATPL Assessment and applied for the licence. If you don't have the Class 1 you cannot exercise the privileges of that licence. I'm sure someone in the know will let us know if you can fly on a CPL on PPL privileges with a Class 2.

It depends entirely on what you want to do. If you aspire to gain an IR or actually achieve your ATPL you must do ATPL ground but you must get your IR within a set time of passin the exams.

LZ

[paco]

If you have a CPL/ATPL and let your medical lapse, you do NOT revert to a PPL unless you specifically have a separate PPL (there's a tick box on the application form). Such PPL privileges stem from the other licence, and they lapse with that licence. A CPL requires a Class 1 medical.

That said, you would only want the ATP if you are going to fly heavy machinery, and on top of the (14) exams and hours, you also need multi crew training and a type rating on a suitable (large) helicopter which, realistically, can only be done within a company. Having done the ATP exams, you must obtain the IR within 36 months.

BTW, Bristol and Cranfield are not the only game in town for distance learning ;)

Phil

[Stn120]

CAP 804 (available online at CAA website)
Section 4 Part N refers to medicals

Page 1

Post 17 Sept 2012 For an EASA Part- Med

" 1.2 Under the Aircrew Regulation (effective from 17 September 2012) Part-MED applies for EASA (and JAR) licences. Part-MED makes provision for: • a Part-MED Class 1 Medical Certificate; • a Part-MED Class 2 Medical Certificate; and • a Part-MED LAPL Medical Certificate.

1.3 For UK national aeroplane licences the NPPL Medical Declaration remains available.

1.4 For ATPLs and CPLs a Class 1 Medical Certificate is required.

1.5 For a PPL(A), PPL(H), SPL and BPL a Class 2 (or Class 1) Medical Certificate is required"

" MED.A.045 Validity, revalidation and renewal of medical certificates (a) Validity
(1) Class 1 medical certificates shall be valid for a period of 12 months.
(2) The period of validity of class 1 medical certificates shall be reduced to 6 months for licence holders who: (i) are engaged in single-pilot commercial air transport operations carrying passengers and have reached the age of 40; (ii) have reached the age of 60.
(3) Class 2 medical certificates shall be valid for a period of: (i) 60 months until the licence holder reaches the age of 40. A medical certificate issued prior to reaching the age of 40 shall cease to be valid after the licence holder reaches the age of 42; (ii) 24 months between the age of 40 and 50. A medical certificate issued prior to reaching the age of 50 shall cease to be valid after the licence holder reaches the age of 51; and (iii) 12 months after the age of 50. (4) LAPL medical certificates shall be valid for a period of: (i) 60 months until the licence holder reaches the age of 40. A medical certificate issued prior to reaching the age of 40 shall cease to be valid after the licence holder reaches the age of 42; (ii) 24 months after the age of 40. (5) The validity period of a medical certificate, including any associated examination or special investigation, shall be: (i) determined by the age of the applicant at the date when the medical examination takes place; and (ii) calculated from the date of the medical examination in the case of initial issue and renewal, and from the expiry date of the previous medical certificate in the case of revalidation. "

[Richthepilot]

Guys - many thanks for your thoughts and time to provide them !

HotLZ - a) yes I knew this, apologies, I should have taken a bit more time to be precise !

Paco - You answered the question that I didn't word very well - I have a PPL and a Class 2 (just renewed today actually) so if I do the CPL/ATPL exams and course (hours, skill test, etc.) I have a SEPARATE license (2 including the PPL(H)) and as such would need a Class 1 to fly with passengers and exercise the privileges of the CPL(H)/ATPL(H) so if I let my Class 1 medical elapse and still had a Class 2 medical I could still physically fly but not accept remuneration (the basics of exercising the privileges of the CPL(H)/ATPL(H).
The key is that they are SEPARATE licences.

I think the CPL(H) is the way to go - I can't see me getting a job flying the big stuff and can't afford the IR.
It's more the challenge of getting the next licence I suppose.

I'd be interested to know who else is in the game for distance learning CPL(H)......... 2K needs to be spent wisely.

Thanks again guys - it's good to know that there are people who are prepared to share and help.

Cheers,

Rich

[Pete O'Tewbe]

The key is that they are SEPARATE licences

Not sure how this ties in with the relevant wording of the Aircrew Regulation:

FCL.015 Application and issue of licences, ratings and certificates

(a) [...]

(b) [...]

(c) A person shall not hold at any time more than one licence per category of aircraft issued in accordance with this Part.

Elsewhere, the Regulation states:

FCL.305 CPL — Privileges and conditions

(a) Privileges. The privileges of the holder of a CPL are, within the appropriate aircraft category, to:

(1) exercise all the privileges of the holder of an LAPL and a PPL;

And for the ATPL:

FCL.505 ATPL — Privileges

(a) The privileges of the holder of an ATPL are, within the appropriate aircraft category, to:

(1) exercise all the privileges of the holder of an LAPL, a PPL and a CPL;

[paco]

Yes, the ATPL and CPL include PPL privileges, but only if those base licences are valid. As soon as they are not (i.e. without a medical) you lose them unless you hold a separate PPL.

Just to make it clear - letting your medical lapse does not automatically make a CPL or ATPL into a PPL.

Phil

[Stn120]

When you have a medical on a license, the validity for all the classes is on it.

i.e. if you have a class 1 medical, it will also list the validity for class 2 etc

[paco]

If you let the Class 1 lapse to a Class 2, the licence does not revert to a PPL. You do not have PPL privileges because the CPL/ATPL is invalid.

Phil

[Richthepilot]

Lots to think about.
I suppose the question still stands then. If you are a CPL(H) and choose not to go and get your medical renewed every 6 months (preferring the 2 year interval at my age for a Class 2) which is the interval for a Class 1..... How can you ever fly again as a private non-commercial pilot... Hopping in, starting up and away you go?
What I'm hearing is that everything is interlinked inextricably!