UK AAIB (H) January 2015

[Hilico]

In separate incidents, two R22s hit the ground in hovering incidents.

Starting to translate forward over muddy ground, right skid digs in here (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/january_2015/robinson_r22_beta__g_mogy_.cfm)

Student jerks cyclic then freezes, it all ends upright but right skid collapsed here (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/january_2015/robinson_r22_beta__g_okey_.cfm)

[fluffy5]

The incident with the introductory flying lesson with the guy freezing on the controls, will always give you grey hairs. Many a time you would have to smile through gritted teeth at the family member on the weekend with the rest of the ice cream lickers, and still ask if he would still like to do a licence.
Luckily for me it never happened, but very close on occasion. Even with experienced instructors sometimes it is just plain luck that you managed to recover the aircraft with someone trying to kill you.

Fluffy

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He would have been better taking control properly with such an inexperienced student.

Although 'control-blocking' can be effective in some circumstances, it is unlikely to be interpreted correctly by an absolute ab-initio, unless it has been specifically pre-briefed before hand.

[John R81]

I have a cousin (now in his 50s) who freezes when startled.

He gave up motorcycles at 19 after a near miss (his bike went under a bus, and was crushed as the bus rolled over it, but he bounced-off the bus wheel and didn't go under) and sticks to driving a car. He is a careful and reserved driver but has been involved in numerous accidents that the insurance companies see as "not his fault" - such as a car pulling out of a junction ahead of him and he ploughs into it; accidents that would have been avoided if his reaction was other than "rabbit in the headlights".

If someone reacts to surprise by freezing, I would not be asking them if they wanted to think about training for a flight license.

[212man]

Earlier in the bulletin is this report: http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Cessna%20525A%20Citation%20CJ2+%20N380CR%2001-15.pdf

It may be a FW but there's a rotary element!:eek:

[helihub]

The first incident involving "right skid digging in"... On these photos from Flickr it looks to me like both skid toes are missing (so did they both dig in?) and the nose impact consistent with a "nose over" with the central canopy support not bending left or right but upwards, and the nose pushed up around the lights like a teddy bear. Also no evidence of the mud on the port side from the field it was reported as falling on to... :confused: :confused:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7511/15714583246_c0f4e88de8.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/15553471040_16315ef07b.jpg

[adobewombat]

On occasion I find pprune useful, but usually because it is a rumour mill, it's not my thing. I would like to make this thread more useful than rumour.

Examining photos taken clearly some time after the crash and questioning what happened is not helpful or useful. When I say 'clearly taken some time after the crash', for example, the aircraft is upright and appears to be in a farm yard as opposed to on its side in a muddy field.

The instructor and student reports are entirely consistent with police taken photographic evidence from the crash site, which was in a muddy area. The initial ground contact was with the right skid, which led to frontal dynamic rollover. This led to ground contact with numerous other parts of the helicopter, including the left front skid.

Aviation in general, should be trying to learn from accidents to make flying safer. In his report to the AAIB the instructor has clearly described the events leading to the accident, and considered the factors that may have contributed to the accident. If publication of this report can lead to improved safety, then that is a positive outcome.

[firebird_uk]

Closest I've come to piling a 44 into the ground was on a trial lesson.

We're at the end of Ex 3 and the female trial lesson recipient is having a go at hovering. Her boyfriend, who had bought her the experience, was in the back.

The usual growing oscillations forward and backwards occur and I take control and steady the ship. We try again.

On the 3rd attempt as the nose goes down / tail up she suddenly takes her left hand and clamps it on her right hand and locks both arms. I start shouting "I have control" but she refuses to relax. As we head down I yank the lever up which slows our decent but rapidly increases our speed.

I continue yelling and prepare to elbow her in the face at which point she fortunately relaxes and control is regained.

After landing she says she's not sure flying is for her. Her boyfriend says "Ere mate, when you scream you sound like a girl!" I politely sign her certificate and wish them good day.

As soon as I see anybody move their left hand towards the cyclic nowadays I'm immediately all over them. Always assume they will do the opposite of what you ask and always try to be ready for the unexpected.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

It's just one of the many things us poor instructors get no credit for when people walk in off the street and expect to go flying, you normally only get a short amount of time to brief them before getting airborne with a complete stranger who might have any number of personnel or mental health issue or maybe was out the lash the night before and you are expected to just cope with what ever they throw at you all for £45 an hour :) .

It would be nice if those that fly and have never done any instruction could stop looking done their noses at flying instructors just because they happen to be flying something bigger that day

[Flying Foxhunter]

Sad to see the old girl in such a state, I have very many hours in her, having brought her to the UK as a Robinson rebuild in 1998. She was a bit unusual for the UK as she was kitted out as an instrument trainer with the extra large instrument panel. I seem to remember that she was on the heavy side then, and if power was a bit limited you would definitely be transitioning off close to the ground. I think it has had at least one rebuild since then and so may not now even have had that instrument panel. Only heli I have owned that Robinson rebuilt the engine under warranty due to faulty valves after about 100 hours in 1999 if I remember correctly

[TiPwEiGhT]

Poor MOGY, i also have many fond hours flying her with the IF kit. The IF panel was removed when she was rebuilt after being sold to Northumbria Helicopters.

[Buttocknurdler]

I used to fly G-MOGY in 1993/4 at Skyline Helicopters. She had the large instrument panel then.

[Richthepilot]

HELIHUB - I can see where you're coming from and understand the conclusions that you've drawn from looking at 2 photos on Flickr but doing an evidence gathering exercise, accident analysis and conclusion on the order of events from those 2 photos is somewhat pre-emptive, surely ? 2 photos remember. I read the AAIB report and there's no inference that anyone was fibbing.

The most important thing is that instructor and student walked away and I would hope lessons are learned by all as Adobewombat stated.
Everyone makes mistakes and I'd like to think that we (as helicopter pilots) are a bit better than the rest and as such stick together, support each other, learn from each other and also keep each other in line.:ok:

[adobewombat]

For those that are interested in MOGY, she was over sprayed at the last rebuild, which meant she was a little heavier than the average R22.

For those still interested in ridiculous analysis of the flicker photos, wouldn't you have thought that the tail rotor penetrating the cockpit might have caused fatalities? It was obviously placed there later, and again demonstrates the futility in looking at these images.