London Gazette

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. Mods please feel free to move.

Are RAF Officers retirement dates still published int e London Gazette? I have been trying to find an old friend of mine but cannot locate retirement lists.

Aaron.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Yes.

Try Google > London Gazette > London Gazette website > RAF Officer Retirement.

Simple really!

[Fg Off Bloggs]

I suspect not. When I retired in 2007 I enquired as to why my retirement did not feature in the London Gazette and was advised that the RAF had decided to stop doing it as the civil servant responsible at Innsworth had been disestablished/refused to move to High Wycombe and it was seen as a reasonable point in time to make a bit of a financial saving!

Wishing to complete my collection (Commissioning/Promotions etc) of my Gazette entries for my family history record I asked a mate at Innsworth to 'see what he could do' - he did! But I suspect that I was one of the last to have his retirement gazetted (unless policy has now been reversed!).

Bloggs:sad:

[Whenurhappy]

On that point, will the wording of the COmmissioning Document be changed to reflect the fact that entries are no longer promulgated in the London Gazette?

[Wander00]

How times have changed: when my Dad became a telegraph boy in the GPO in about 1923, even that minor event was promulgated in the London Gazette!

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Thanks every body.

Aaron.

[Haraka]

Hmm. Bit of a Walts' charter removing accessible data to officer career paths.
Having suffered a blue chip company Group Managing Director and self- appointed "captain of industry", who was either the youngest RN ships' captain on D-Day ( of a corvette) or the youngest RAF captain on the Berlin Air Lift , dependent on the audience, I crinkle a bit.
Same individual had among his post -nominal qualifications " Member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers".
Trouble was , they had no record of him.

Obviously just a small "admin error".......

[Al R]

Quick hard right.

'ADC' - as in post nominals - does it stay with you or does it vanish when you leave post? If it stays with you, can it later be expunged and gazetted for various admin reasons?

[teeteringhead]

'ADC' - as in post nominals - does it stay with you or does it vanish when you leave post? The "Air ADCs", that is the 4-stars, I think keep theirs. The lesser mortals, usually gp capts, keep theirs only for the duration of the post.

Marham's Staish is - ISTR - always one, for the Stn's "Sandringham Airport" function; similarly Northolt. And they don't keep the ADC post-nominal either.

Those ones have their appointments and relinquishment both gazetted. There's an Annex at the back of 1358 explaining the different types of aigulettes, i think there are 4 or 5 different varieties.

Must .... get .... out ..... more

[Al R]

I think Aldergrove might have had the same requirement. 4 or 5? Jeez.

Cheers :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Any station with a Royal Hon Air Cdre, ie Kinloss, Lossie, Coningsby, Wittering

When the station loses its function, ie a Royal shuffles off, unless a new Royal is appointed then I guess they lose it. If the station loses its utility, such as being handy for Burleigh, I wonder if said Royal drops her role?

Leuchars was an obvious odd one out.

[Mahogany_Bomber]

A quick random search of the Gazette found this page from Oct last year, it appears to be "ops normal" to me:


https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/61011/supplement/19426


MB

[teeteringhead]

I think there are 4 or 5 different varieties

Got that wrong didn't I - there are NINE different ones. :eek:

PATTERNS OF AIGUILLETTES
Aiguillettes are to be worn by entitled officers as indicated at Annex B to this chapter. The patterns of aiguillettes are as follows:
Type 1. Gold seven-line orris cord with gilt crown and miniature Royal Cypher (¾in (19mm) square), in capital letters, on tags to be worn on the right shoulder (para 0907b).
Type 2. Gold seven-line orris cord with no device on tags, to be worn on the right shoulder (Annex B, b, c and f).
Type 2a.As for Type 2, in miniature size, to be worn by female RAF officers and PMRAFNS, with No 5 SD (Annex B, b, c and f).
Type 3. Gold seven-line orris cord with gilt eagle and crown on tags, to be worn on the right shoulder (Annex B, d).
Type 4. Blue and gold seven-line orris cord with silver eagle and crown on tags, to be worn on the right shoulder (Annex B, e).
Type 5. Blue and gold seven-line orris cord with silver eagle and crown on tags, to be worn on the left shoulder (Annex B, g).
Type 6. Blue and gold seven-line orris cord with no device on tags, to be worn on the right shoulder (Annex B, h).
Type 7. Blue and gold seven-line orris cord with no device on tags, to be worn on the left shoulder (Annex B, j).
Type 7a.As for Type 7, in miniature size, to be worn by female RAF officers with No 5 SD (Annex B, j).

The Staish ADC variety is Type 2/2a and is also worn by Hon Physician, Surgeon, Dental Surgeon, Chaplain and Nursing Sister to the Sovereign, that is the specialist branches' equivalents of ADCs to HM.

Other types are for Personal ADCs to HM, Equerries, Air Attaches, ADCs to Governors and Governors General, and "normal" ADCs and PSOs, ie outer office staff to VSOs. MRAFs have a separate one too!

And for further complication, as you can see, some are worn on the left shoulder and some on the right ..... :ugh:

[Tankertrashnav]

Fascinating bit of thread drift on the subject of aiguillettes. As a medal/badge nerd, I've certainly learned stuff I didnt previously know.

I know there are different explanations of the origin of the word "aiguillette". One explanation is it is related to aiguille the French for needle, and derived from the sharp prickers which troops used to wear on a lanyard to clear the touch holes of their muskets, but there are other theories. The word is often pronounced "aiglet", and that is also the name for the little metal or plastic sleeve on your shoelaces to stop them fraying. Useful pub-quiz fodder there!

teeteringhead - I've given up going out - staying in on PPRuNe is much more interesting :ok:

[teeteringhead]

TTN I assure you I could bore you for hours on the subject of aigulettes and Royal Ciphers various! (there are 2 sizes of cypher too!)

One explanation I heard of the narrow, conical bits at the end of aigulettes is that they were a cavalry thing. (ADCs were historically normally cavalry, as they could ride across the battlefield to give subordinate commanders the boss' intent - especially useful when there was no mobile signal .....)

They were (allegedly) used by cavalry when they overran the bad guys artillery, to (literally) "spike their guns" by hammering said points into cannons' touch holes. Cavalry could then retire to safety of own lines, leaving u/s enemy guns behind.

[Whenurhappy]

Yes, we do go a bit 'South American Junta leader' with our aigulettes.

Here's a question: why do the metal bits, shown on relief, the Fascinae on them - the bundle of sticks and axe which is the symbol of Mussolini's Fascist Party?

Same goes for the aigulettes worn by the Old Commonwealth.

[Wander00]

I heard one the pointy bits were for sticking in the ground for tethering their horses

[beardy]

I understood the rope bits formed a hobble to hobble the horses and the aiguilletes were to stake the hobble to the ground. The 'fan belt' bit of Arab headdress also started off as a hobble for either horses or camels.

[Union Jack]

I assure you I could bore you for hours on the subject of aigulettes - Teeters

Oh the irony.....:=

Jack

PS Have worn one on both shoulders - not at the same time! - and now that I wear a tea towel - on whichever side I like - I am drawn to the conclusion that the wearing of an aiguillette and a tea towel have much in common.....:uhoh:

[Haraka]

The 'fan belt' bit of Arab headdress also started off as a hobble for either horses or camels.

Indeed , most items had a secondary use.

Including the women.

[Fg Off Bloggs]

A quick random search of the Gazette found this page from Oct last year, it appears to be "ops normal" to me:


https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...pplement/19426


MB

Well that's good news but there seem to be an inordinate number of names 'retiring' on that page alone, which might suggest that it relates to a mass exodus (redundancy) rather than a few retirees, which was the norm previously!

Bloggs:hmm:

[Hangarshuffle]

It all seems just a little pompous, if I dare be as bold. And very dated.

[Pontius Navigator]

HS, you are talking tradition, or as someone said of the RAF habit.

To remove pomposity you would need to abolish, at a stroke, all the different regimental uniforms, mess undress, and any thing else that has no modern utility.

It was bad enough when the Air Force Lists were abolished.

[Mahogany_Bomber]

I looked something up in latest Air Force List only this morning; not abolished, simply different. :)

[Pontius Navigator]

MB, paper copy?

IIRC it went electronic at one point and J-class reserve were no longer listed and the Retired list was dropped.

[Mahogany_Bomber]

PN,

as I said, different. It's an electronic version on the RAF Manning intranet site, only serving officers and WOs listed as far as I recall.

MB

[Innominate]

There are lists of serving officers in all three services at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/armed-forces-list-2013 - not the AFL as we knew it, but better than nothing!

[Tankertrashnav]

A friend of mine in the medal trade had a complete run of Army and Navy lists dating back to the early 19th century. It had taken him years to put them together, and cost him a small fortune, but they were a fantastic aid to research. I'm wondering if since the AFL etc went digital they have been put onto CD ROM. If not, all this information will be lost to researchers in the future.

[teeteringhead]

It's an electronic version on the RAF Manning intranet site, only serving officers and WOs listed as far as I recall But it was all the other stuff in the real AFL which was so useful. RAFR, VR, VR(T) and Auxies, Embassies, Group and Command staffs, TAVRAs/RFCAs etc etc.....

I wonder how much was "saved" to lose all that.:(

[Mahogany_Bomber]

I suspect JPA and the move from Innsworth both played some role in the move to a much reduced electronic version.

[Pontius Navigator]

MB, thank you and you're right on both counts. I got my post-nominal updated in one of the last paper ones. When there was a further change, as I wad not on JPA it was not possible.

At the cost of a little server space it would have been possible to refile retiring personnel to another list. Of course public access would have been denied under the great god DPA; that the Gazette, newspapers and HMSO had previously released such information would have cut no ice.