GA ADS-B Trial in Southern England

[Rod1]

Full info can be found at;

FLYER Forums ? View topic - General Aviation ADS-B Trial in Southern England (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93283)

It has taken many years to win the necessary approvals to make this happen.

Rod1

[PPLvirgin]

Sorry Rod - what is the key benefits for this?

Is it simply to make it easier & safer for radar/Ground assitance or a better nav aid for pilots etc..?

regards

Tris

[xtophe80]

Aircrafts equipped with ADS-B receivers can have a traffic display showing aircraft with ADS-B transponders like TAS/TCAS sees aircrafts with transponders or FLARM sees other FLARM

--
Xtophe

[A and C]

Once again the authorities in the UK demonstrate a pro-active attitude to flight safety with these trials. It is especially pleasing that the CAA is not charging modification fees for annex 2 aircraft involved in these trials and only requiring a minor modification.

Unfortunately this totally contrasts with the attitude of the very misnamed European Air Saftey Agency that doing its best to strangle any ADS-B implimemtation, I am installing a Garmin ADS-B capable ES transponder in my Robin the GPS sorce being an IFR approved GTN650.

Both of these units are approved by EASA for ADS-B in a large number of American aircraft, however EASA require an STC to enable the ADS-B to be switched on if installed in a Robin ! The total bill for this STC is IRO £15K !!!!!

Needless to say that with the bill for the STC exceeding the bill for the equipment by a considerable sum the ADS-B will not be enabled.

Having paid for the equipment to make flying safer for myself and those around me in the air ( and those on the ground below me) I find it gauling that the so called guardians of European air safety make it prohibitively expensive to switch the equipment on for reasons that have no technical justification or merit.

I can only conclude that EASA is more about increasing the income of its management than advancing the safety of European air transport.

[Mach Jump]

I can only conclude that EASA is more about increasing the income of its management than advancing the safety of European air transport

I heard that EASA have been aware of this conflict of interest for some time, and that, after a great deal of consideration, they have come up with what their various committees agree is the ideal solution:

It is proposed that he word 'Safety' be dropped from their title.


MJ:ok:

[Rod1]

PPLvirgin

In the short term it will reduce the likelihood of you having a mid air. In the longer term there may be advantages regarding CAS.

Rod1

[creweite]

I left the UK many years ago and now live in Florida. At this time I have only ADS-B in on my tablet which give me weather information en route, and as a bonus traffic information when nearby aircraft are interrogated by someone near me who has ADS-B out. Now I fly a low wing aircraft with excellent visibility, but I seldom see the reported traffic even when quite close. In one instance it paralleled my track and was a mile or so off my wingtip, clear day. And I have had a panic or two when I suddenly had a wingman who was not there, ghosting from my mode C returns when flying in rough air! So see and be seen. ADS-B is no more than a heads up, and that is where we should be looking!

[Rod1]

creweite

That is interesting and completely contrary to formal tests done in the UK!

I ran a series of tests for the LAA on various collision avoidance / traffic detection systems relevant to Light GA. As part of this I was given permission to emit ADS-B and it was received by a system called PowerFlarm. The tests showed 100% accuracy up to 20 miles - the limit of the test - (as best we could measure). It was so good that if I "broke right" out of visual range, the other aircraft could tell me what I was doing close it instantaneously. From a traffic detection POV it won hands down, with FLARM beating it for short range avoiding action on the collision avoidance side.

Rod1

[A and C]

The plans for my aircraft include a german ADS-B receiver and the power Flarm system all presened on the G500 screen, at about 1200 Quid it is a bargan.

The big hole in the system is made by the idiotic EASA attitude that demands the £15K certification of an system already certified for other light aircraft.

So when I get the whole thing done the aircraft will have a full FLARM system to keep me and the very hard to see gliders apart, I will see ADS-B equiped aircraft but thanks to EASA these aircraft wont be able to see me.

Perhaps I should write to the director of EASA and ask him how EASA sees this STC policy in terms of their safety mandate.

[Rod1]

A and C

I would be very interested in a chat about your fit. I tried to send you a PM but it did not go?

Rod1

[A and C]

Following a disagreement with the pprune managment they shut down my PM's but if you contact tmmorris i am sure he will put you in contact.

[creweite]

Rod1
I am glad to hear that LAA is taking an active part in this new technology, we have come a long way since the early days of the PFA!


I am not familiar with PowerFlarm, but from your post it appears able to detect ADS-B. but can PowerFlarm be detected by ADS-B? If not, then it would appear to create a conflict, you can see me on your screen, but I can't see you on mine.


PowerFlarm appears to have a lot going for it, not the least of which is a moderate cost compared to the installation of ADS-B out mandated by the FAA for 2020 for folks like me that operate in Class C airspace.


Perhaps I should elaborate a little on my experience with ADS-B in. The software on my tablet gives me target location, height, direction of flight and speed, even aircraft registration if that is the a target with ADS-B out. The problem of course is that an aircraft half a mile away presents a very small angle of view and may be hard to see. Add to that some of the odd things that I have experienced, which could not be explained by ghosting. Flying on a northerly heading, a target was shown several miles ahead of me on my track line and heading east, three hundred feet below me. No problem, it will be gone by the time I get there. But it did not move, stayed on my track line as I closed on it and flew over it. The software turned the target red as a warning, but there was nothing there! So a software glitch somewhere I imagine.


As an engineer I am enthused about new electronic developments, spent almost as much as my aircraft cost to install a Garmin GTN650 and can see another investment of that size for ADS-B out in the not too distant future!

[Jan Olieslagers]

@creweite: at the risk of posting some nonsense, this is how I understand things - I shall be glad to stand corrected.

FLARM is a technology developed in Central Europe for the specific purpose of collision avoidance among gliders (imagine them ridge soaring). It uses general purpose hardware, such as gps-receivers and 433/688 MHz transmitters, and seems to do a very good job for the given purpose, while remaining affordable AND modest on the power requirement - important in gliders!
FLARM seems to have especially good algorythms (sp?) for predicting potential collisions/conflicts.

Standard Flarm equipment gets information from a gps receiver (for the participants' own position and speed and altitude and direction/heading), broadcasts this, and receives the same info from other participants. Displays can show other traffic with the various parameters, and create alerts if a collision danger seems imminent.

"Power Flarm" I understand to do all the same things PLUS receive, interpret, and display data from ADS-B.

[RatherBeFlying]

PowerFLARM does a wonderful job of picking up ADS-B traffic. It tells you where it is and where it's going :ok:

It also picks up Mode C/S but can only show a distance ring derived from signal strength.

Having had two close encounters with big iron before PF, I really appreciate that they can't sneak up on me any more :ok:

[creweite]

It sounds as if Flarm would have been an excellent system if it had been adopted internationally, no need for an expensive transponder to provide ADS-B out, and I think that it would be better received by pilots than the US mandate for is ADS-B on cost grounds alone. The cost of meeting the 2020 requirement in the US will exceed the value of some older aircraft that operate around Class B, C and D airspace.


ADS-B is intended to replace ground based radar in many areas, and will be an essential part of the Air Traffic Control system. Do European ATC centers have access to Flarm data, which could then be pushed out to ADS-B users and so prevent conflicts?

[Rod1]

FLARM has a range of about 4 miles. It is intended as a collision avoidance system for relatively low speed aircraft (light GA, gliders). Next to useless for CAT / Mil jets or as a Radar replacement.

Rod1

[Forfoxake]

PowerFLARM is claimed to have a range of > 10km (compared to 3-5km for FLARM). Any comments, Rod1?


Having seen the NATS collision avoidance box at the LAA rally, I was very keen to take part in the nationwide trial.


However, because of the delays and restriction of the trial to flying clubs in the South of England, I am seriously considering getting PowerFLARM shortly.


Anyone else?

[Rod1]

"PowerFLARM is claimed to have a range of > 10km (compared to 3-5km for FLARM). Any comments, Rod1?"

I ran my own airborne tests, but 4nm = about 7.5km so it might manage 10km on a good day:)

Rod1

[Forfoxake]

Rod 1 "I ran my own airborne tests, but 4nm = about 7.5km so it might manage 10km on a good day:)"


So over 30 seconds warning even if closing speed is 400 knots?


I understand that you had problems with PowerFLARM not ignoring the aircraft's own transponder. Was this ever resolved?


And could the warning beeps be heard over the engine noise even if wearing ANR headsets?


And were you using the portable box or the core with a separate display and/or feeding the information to SkyDemon?


Finally, any other comments from your trial? Thanks in advance.

[RatherBeFlying]

Fibreglass gliders and tube and fabric towplanes are fairly simple cases.

Metal and carbon aircraft are more difficult, but generally will benefit from upper and lower external antennae.

That said the top of the glareshield produces good range numbers on ASW-27.

FLARM / POWERflarm Radio Range Analysis (http://www.flarm.com/support/analyze/index_en.html)

[Rod1]

“Rod 1 "I ran my own airborne tests, but 4nm = about 7.5km so it might manage 10km on a good day"


So over 30 seconds warning even if closing speed is 400 knots?”

My comment on range was in response to using the tec to replace radar etc. ADS-B works out to 30 – 50 nm (I am told), FLARM works out to 3 – 4nm. For GA collision avoidance FLARM is brilliant, but if you have two jets closing at 600kn... The tests were done using a Carbon fibre aircraft and a metal aircraft (MCR01 and RV9).


“I understand that you had problems with PowerFLARM not ignoring the aircraft's own transponder. Was this ever resolved?”

The manufacturer kept saying all the issues I found would be fixed in the next FW release. The new FW would arrive and I would redo the tests at my own expense and there would be no change. Eventually I ran out of money and patience. It may work fine now. The issues were on Mode C detraction.

“And could the warning beeps be heard over the engine noise even if wearing ANR headsets?”

It was just about ok. If I integrated it into the EFIS I could have got more flexibility.


“And were you using the portable box or the core with a separate display and/or feeding the information to SkyDemon?”

Only the portable version was available at the time. My MGL EFIS would have accepted the output but I did not test this.


“Finally, any other comments from your trial? Thanks in advance. “

FLARM and ADS-B do exactly what it says on the tin. FLARM is amazing when it comes to avoiding action. Mode c/a/s detection is a black art, some manufacturers have good solutions, others are very poor. It would be unfair for me to say PF is still poor without retesting.

The tests covered PCAS, ADS-B out, ADS-B in, FLARM, PowerFlarm and Mode A/C/S detection. We had to get special permission from the CAA for the ADS-B out bits, full safety case etc.

Rod1

[Forfoxake]

Thanks for your very comprehensive reply, Rod1.

Think I will probably bite the bullet and buy the PowerFLARM portable, with warning tones sent to my intercom.

I have no doubt that a more cost effective solution will be found, probably mainly based on ADS-B, sometime in the future but feel that PowerFLARM offers a lot of safety benefits NOW.

[Rod1]

The advantage of PF is that if, as I hope, we get a lot of ADS-b out then you have a good solution regarding traffic detection. I would be interesting to know how the mode c detection is progressing.

Rod1

[Rod1]

Linked to the ADS-B trial there is now a poll on who has what transponder designed to help NATS;

FLYER Forums ? View topic - Transponder POLL (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93661)

Rod1

[Shoestring Flyer]

There a currently a few options, especially if you have an EFIS or similar to display mode S on but they are not clear cut and have a few gotchas:
Garrecht do various stand alone units that will display mode S and Flarm but not modes A/C, so that is a bit restrictive. However they also do a TRX-1500 blind unit which will display on a Dynon Skyview and a few other EFIS units. Problem again is at the moment it also doesn't display modes A/C.
Powerflarm will also display on their small stand alone units Flarm, mode S and will also do A/C, but also interesting is that Powerflarm Core,another blind unit, will display on Garmin 495/6/695 but not on Dynon Skyview, at least at the moment.

I think there will be other options in this area quite soon so my plan is to hold off for a while.

[Forfoxake]

PowerFLARM portable delivered early this week, fortunately ordered before the recent large price increase due to the sudden rise in the Swiss Franc!

First impressions using it in car without FLARM antenna were that the internal GPS antenna acquired the GPS satellites very quickly if placed on dashboard and that the display, though small, was very clear. Fortunately, I pass a major airport to/from work so it soon became apparent that it was very accurately picking up airliners with ADS-B and the occasional transponder signal too.

In the aircraft today, I simply attached it with Velcro to the coaming above the top of the panel and decided to fly to a local gliding field where http://live.glidernet.org indicated there were several FLARM equipped gliders and the tug plane.

As I was doing my checks, a friend from another field called on the radio that he was approaching my base airfield. However, nothing showed on the PowerFLARM display as he joined and landed and so I though it was not working in the aircraft. However, as he turned off the runway, I asked him on the radio if he was transponder equipped. Yes, he said, but it was not switched on! A few seconds after he switched on, a small green circle appeared with no difference in our altitudes as he passed behind me. Incidentally, Rod, at no point during this trial did my own aircraft's (mode C) transponder appear on the display or appear to interfere with my reception of others.

In the air, I noticed a few airliners above displayed and the occasional transponding aircraft but a few miles out from the gliding field several FLARM targets appeared. Too many to follow in fact but obviously most of my attention was being used looking out the window.

On the ground, it became apparent that PowerFLARM was displaying the gliders (most of which appeared to be FLARM equipped) very accurately. For example, I lost sight of one on base landing after me but with the help of the display, located it almost directly behind me on very short finals.

Later, soon after take off, PowerFLARM indicated a target 200ft below me and quite close. I could not see it but gave my wings a good waggle. There may have been a few bleeps at this point too but I was not sure because of the engine noise and ANR headset. As I suspected, the audio warning will need to be plumbed in to the headset or intercom. Not sure yet whether I need an extra licence for this feature.

Back at home base, on the ground remember, I noticed that the distances and relative heights of transponder equipped aircraft in the circuit were displayed pretty accurately- although of course, unlike FLARM and ADS-B targets, there was no indication of their heading or where to look.

I later discovered at home that parts of the flights had been recorded on the Open Glider Network, and FLARM transmit ranges analysed on KISS Technologies GmbH website (at or above average up to over 30km). Fascinating!

Negative points were that colours on the display were not too clear through my Sun Tiger sunglasses and, despite these, the scale was sometimes not clear because of sun in my eyes. The battery life was not quite as long as I had hoped, although even when the battery indicator started to flash red, the unit kept working for over an hour even at maximum brightness. Another negative, though not the unit's fault was that I came across at least two transponder equipped aircraft that were flying with it switched off!

So, of course, you still have to keep a good lookout! However, my initial impression is that PowerFLARM is very useful safety aid, particularly if you fly near FLARM gliders (or ADS-B out equipped light aircraft in the trial). I will try to make further posts as my experience in using it grows, and after the next firmware upgrade next month.

[Johnm]

What kind of idiot flies around with a transponder sitting in the panel doing nothing:ugh::ugh::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Shoestring Flyer]

There appears to be loads of pilots flying around without having the Transponder switched on...Why anyone would do this is just quite beyond me!

[Oldpilot55]

My instructor switched ours off after we busted Class D, well more of an impinge than a bust

[Rod1]

"Later, soon after take off, PowerFLARM indicated a target 200ft below me and quite close"

That is exactly what my test unit did when it detected my transponder!

Many pilots do not switch transponders on, including instructors. It is quite interesting to land after an aircraft which was not showing on my PCAS and ask them on the ground. Most come up with one of 2 reasons;

1 I like to keep a low profile - I don't want any trouble if I make a small mistake.

2 The only guy to get prosecuted for the Red Arrows bust was the only guy who was squawking, the others were never traced. (which is true).

I have pushed many times for a sensible harts and minds campaign to get people to turn units on, but such an approach has to take into account human nature not just shout idiotic fool.:ugh:

Rod1

[Buttino]

My instructor switched ours off after we busted Class D, well more of an impinge than a bust

lol Did your instructor really think that the aircraft couldn't be traced by turning off the transponder?

[Sir George Cayley]

I'm sure I've seen some advice on the CAA web pages about encouraging the continued use of Mode A/C:confused:

I can't get into the mindset of pilots who have a txpndr switched off when the fly. Do they not wear seat belts?

SGC

[Forfoxake]

I wrote: Later, soon after take off, PowerFLARM indicated a target 200ft below me and quite close.

In response, Rod1 wrote: "That is exactly what my test unit did when it detected my transponder!"


What mine indicated was a Flarm/ADS-B target, not a transponder. Is that what your test unit did?


Since there were still a few gliders about, and it had not happened after my first take off, I presumed it was a real FLARM target but I will keep my eye out for this in future.


One thing I did do to try to avoid this problem was to switch on my transponder (Mode C) very soon after start up of engine and PowerFLARM, rather than leave on Standby till ready to take off. I know that my transponder takes a while to warm up anyway but reckon that the sooner it is detected and ignored by PowerFLARM the better.


So not sure if this is still a problem or not. And if so, hopefully it will be addressed by the next update in March!

[skyrangerpro]

I have been trialling pilotaware, a non-commercial venture spearheaded by a BMAA member. You can build the unit yourself from parts you can buy off the shelf for about £60. It picks up ADS-B and can then display the data on say your skydemon (pic 1) or runwayHD and identifies them (pic2) It also picks up and displays anyone else who has the pilotaware box (pic 3).

It's an impressive initiative.

http://https://www.dropbox.com/s/ax300pcydxsj054/2015-06-27%2017.14.18.png?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ax300pcydxsj054/2015-06-27%2017.14.18.png?dl=0)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3kyanghgnwujdoy/2015-06-29%2015.04.20.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/79ggfn8l1wu64i0/2015-07-15%2019.56.59.png?dl=0

[Shoestring Flyer]

Impresive initiative indeed but unless it can be configured to pick up all the rest of the aircraft transponder squawking with non-ADSB Mode S, Mode C and also Mode A, which makes up the majority of GA aircraft, I can't see how it is a way forward.

[Aerials]

From the PilotAware website:

PilotAware is a minimal cost system in which the Hardware and RF Protocol is made public. The System is capable of Receiving ADS-B, Transmitting NMEA messages to a transponder capable of providing ADS-B out.

In the case of Aircraft not equipped with a transponder, an additional transceiver operating in the 868Mhz License free frequency provides additional positioning information using the Open P3I protocol to surrounding traffic.

PilotAware can support interfaces to
- ADS-B (in)
- ADS-B (out)
- P3I (in/out range 25km)
- RS232 Out (NMEA Sentences at 4800 baud)
- RS232 Out (NMEA+ADSB+P3I Sentences at 57600 baud)
- WiFi Software AP (NMEA+ADSB+P3I)


The parts are readily available modules. There are some 3 or 4 wires to solder, the rest just plugs together. I think the weight would be less than 200 grams. I have seen a figure somewhere but can't locate it at the moment. The parts I have bought in preparation seem to indicate a very light weight for the project indeed.
Take a look at the Construction Guide under Hardware here: Introduction - Home (http://www.pilotaware.co.uk/)

I hope that's useful.

[Forfoxake]

Impressively cheap ADS-B in/out but not much use until more light aircraft can transmit ADS-B. Anyone know how the trial is going?


Meanwhile, PowerFlarm continues to offer safety benefits now.

The March 2015 firmware update took one backward step imho when it removed the audio warnings from PowerFlarm portable when operating on it's internal batteries. Since this is the most useful feature of the system imho, I now power the unit in the air with a separate rechargeable 8 battery pack. I may plum into my own aircraft's electrics later but the separate battery pack allows me to use the full functionality of PowerFlarm portable when flying other aircraft.

I increasingly do not look much at the screen but certainly pay attention when the unit starts to bleep, now through my headset. This usually means Mode C traffic is near so I have a good look out the window and waggle my wings. This is particularly useful when flying long distances in apparently empty airspace in Scotland/Northern England but encountering other traffic not known about by ATSUs or warned about very late (Of course, under basic service, ATSU have no obligation to warn me about conflicting traffic anyway). The unit also annoyingly bleeps briefly when you are on short finals and there is a transponding aircraft sitting short of the threshold but I suppose this confirms it is working.


I am not sure of the value of displaying traffic on a virtual radar screen (on Skydemon etc). You really do not need to know about most of the traffic nearby- only about the ones that might hit you! You should be looking out the window if traffic is nearby, not at a computer screen. That is why increasingly urgent warning bleeps are so useful.


Since I often fly in Class D airspace too, I think I might have observed a bit of a delay in displayed information for ADS-B airline contacts, mainly height difference. This may be because of the high speeds and descent/climb rates of most airliners and hopefully would not affect the warning bleeps if a collision was imminent but it is a concern if it applies to light aircraft. Has any detailed research been done? FLARM detection continues to impress but not many aircraft, even gliders, have it in the UK at present.


So, despite the fact that lots of traffic does not have a transponder, FLARM or ADS-B out, PowerFlarm is definitely worth having.


PS. I have no connection with the makers or retailers of PowerFlarm.

[Rod1]

There will be an announcement very soon on ADS-B out with uncertified GPS.

Rod1

[skyrangerpro]

Further testing this evening at the SVMC fly-in (thanks to Brian Finch for catering) at Long Marston. Looks like we have a reasonably robust unit design now.

Here's some screen shots of me being tracked by a pilotaware ground station (in yellow) climbing out of Long Marston on 02, immediately picking up some unidentified passing, potentially conflicting, traffic (later identified as '406792' out of Wellesbourne, this is not a set-up), immediately above and ahead of me, I am climbing right towards him although I have no visual.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/g-rvah#7196741

First shot shows him 430' above me, (all offset heights are references against the monitoring ground station), then 340', then 240', then 100', then 100' below me. Picked him up way before I actually saw him. Ok hands up, I never saw him at all, although they could see him from the ground and were collectively catching their breath (must have looked closer than it was from that angle).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wf0r4xfberilfld/2015-08-12%2021.26.18.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/87cn2al222nucw0/2015-08-12%2021.26.16.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/39gg9lj349cs6ph/2015-08-12%2021.26.22.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejna8dir6qcg91g/2015-08-12%2021.26.19.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4v7phew7f32q44j/2015-08-12%2021.26.20-1.jpg?dl=0


remember this is a non commercial initiative, build your own box, details here

http://www.pilotaware.com/

[skyrangerpro]

reproduced by kind permission of LAA:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ez29t1qq8ltwul/PA1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y880ddw1uhi5jhj/PA2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hy9hdd85oj9o4d/PA3.jpg?dl=0

[BobD]

Impresive initiative indeed but unless it can be configured to pick up all the rest of the aircraft transponder squawking with non-ADSB Mode S, Mode C and also Mode A, which makes up the majority of GA aircraft, I can't see how it is a way forward. A step in the right direction would be the ability to see Flarm traffic, but until/unless Flarm stops encrypting their data, this will not be possible. Sign up to this petition to encourage Flarm to change their policy.


https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol?recruiter=371494356&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive


BobD

[skyrangerpro]

shots from test at Long Marston, using 5 Pilotaware units

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2kl09vcat83j6q/2015-10-17%2013.19.47.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/trt9t0ria1e0d5o/2015-10-17%2013.31.34.png?dl=0

[skyrangerpro]

screen shots from the most recent test, showing 30km+ range, flight IDs and proximity warning.


404B19 is another pilotaware unit, we just happened to catch the G-RVAH as well thru ADS-B pick up.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ytfaivhy1jljrby/2015-11-22%2011.45.29.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qiusubykkzieite/2015-11-22%2013.36.34.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6biwavnkrg1mm08/IMG_1421.PNG?dl=0

[horizon flyer]

Question if the aircraft had a compliant ADS-B system but no STC, if it was to be switch on and transmitting.

1. How does anybody know there is no STC.
Does it transmit a code saying certified.

2. What offence has been committed.

3. Who brings the charges and on what grounds.

I can see it in court My Lud it was a heavy traffic area and I was very concerned as low visibility so I switched it on for safety, so I plead not guilt.

That would be interesting and I think the anti EU press would be very interest in an organisation that was anti safety. Plus does it go against your human rights on safety grounds.

[skyrangerpro]

Pilotaware now shipping. It's been quite a story.

PilotAware Hardware | PilotAware Hardware (http://pilotawarehardware.com/)

[horizon flyer]

Perhaps we should start spelling EAsA with a small s as safety has been dropped and replaced with, Screw them,

[piperboy84]

So if I have a panel mounted Garmin 496GPS and a Garmin 330 (non ES) is this unit my cheapest way to get ADS-B putting aside STC etc?

[Rod1]

It will cost you around £900 - £1000 to upgrade your 330 to an ES.

Your GPS and a 330 ES will not transmit SIL = 0 so is you are flying a permit aircraft you can not play. Your cheapest option is to sell the 330 ASAP (before ADS-B becomes more widly known) and fit a Trig or similar. Again assumeing a permit aircraft.

Rod1