University - Aerospace Eng. with Pilot studies

[mcfly87]

Hi,

I am looking for a good University offering both - Degree in Aerospace Engineering as well as commercial pilot training. Do you know about any place like this?

Thank you!

[appfo09]

Hi !

Try and search about ERAU. I think they offer some courses of the combinations you are asking for.

Have a look your self. Google is your best friend !!!

[mcfly87]

Thanks appfo09,

I know about Embry Riddle. The thing is that their courses are very expensive.

My goal in general is to have more opportunities while looking for a pilot (or related) job in the future. With aerospace engineering degree you can do much more than just flying an aircraft.

The question now is what is better - study aerospace at random Uni and do the licenses & ratings privately or find a well known place where you can do both at a time. Second option sounds more professional though is surely going to cost more..

What do you think?

[Diving_Dobbs]

I'm currently at the University of Liverpool (UK) studying Aerospace Engineering with Pilot studies. There is one academic module in the first year covering about 70% of the PPL(A) syllabus. There is also one module in second year which covers some more advanced theory, I think it's ATPL ground school stuff.

The requirement for the course is that we complete 20 hours of flying the first year, that's all, but we are given a bit of support if we want to continue in the second year. It's set up through our local flying school at Liverpool John Lennon airport. The additional cost to tuition fees for flying cost us £3350.

Hope this helps.

[appfo09]

Hi mcfly87,

I wish I could go back in time and start this way. I have already an EASA licence in my pocket and at the moment I am struggling to find any kind of pilot job. :ugh:

Aerospace Engineering is a great course if you can do it at a good institution. At the same time you can also start the PPL course.

There are a lot of companies that take cadets to train them to become a pilot plus at the same time adding a university degree in Aviation but hardly an engineering degree.

The types of degrees in Aviation that are mostly offered are in business and management related areas. Only a few offer the combination you are looking for.

For instance in europe Lufthansa is an example or

http://www.brunel.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/aviation-engineering-with-pilot-studies-beng

Your views of getting an engineering degree in Aviation its not bad at all.
What i suggest you do is to ask other people about their opinions, do your homework carefully, financial plans, DECIDE and then take actions.

I hope my opinions will help you towards your future plans !

I wish you all the best and a happy new year 2015 !!!!

[Eavr]

Have a look at University of Leeds (UK). They offer Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies course where PPL subjects are studied in the first year and exams are sit. In the second year, ATPLs are being taught. PPL flying is all done in the summer in a month time, after the first year. I am studying Aviation Technology and Management, have a PPL with Night Rating and 10 ATPLs passed.

[appfo09]

mcfly87 !

You may also want to have a look on this website

Becoming a Pilot | Airline Pilot Training | Latest Pilot Jobs (http://www.flightdeckfriend.com/#!university-pilot-degree-course/c235l)

Hope we all have been of your support towards your query.

All the best!

[mcfly87]

Hey guys,

thank you all for your replies.

appfo09 - to make you feel better, we are in the same age. I already hold an M.Sc degree in Architectural Engineering. Unfortunately.. I just hate to be an architect and same as you, would like to go back in time and start it all differently.

The thing is that during the studies I started flying, at first on gliders only, after some time I did PPL(A) as well. At the moment I have 350h on gliders and 50h on single engine planes. I am also glider FI.FI and hold ICAO level 5.

I know that to be a pilot you basically do not need any degree. In my opinion though having aerospace engineering diploma gives you the best background for this industry. It also opens you many more doors when it comes to employment possibilities. You can become flight test engineer or even test pilot one day.

Where I live we have 3 Universities that offer this degree and also - if you are good and lucky enough - all of the licenses and ratings for FREE to CPL level (including ME, IR, ATPL(fr) etc. with 200-250 h TT). Enrollment for pilot specialization takes place after third semester, you just need to have some flying experience (at least PPL(A)) and good marks.

This may sound crazy but I am not sure whether going there is a good choice. It is simply because I know many people that chose this route and are currently unemployed. Their opinion about the programs clearly show that engineering side was quite "old fashioned" there. Forget about modern technologies, it is all mainly pure and solid maths and physics without any relation to real world. So at the end we have guys with "theoretically" engineering degree that for most of the positions is useless (as they do not have a proper knowledge) and low hours which does not allow them to even think about an airline job.

That is why I started to wonder whether it would be wiser to spend some money for more valuable, foreign University. Of course it costs a lot comparing to my examples here but perhaps it just would more prospective decision. What do you think?

Cheers

[appfo09]

Nice to hear back from you mcfly87!

You have some very valuable thoughts and this counts a lot. This sounds you are not somebody who takes anything it comes. I want to say you are thoughtful and you consider every aspect in what you actually choose to do. That's very important and keep on like this !

You are the first guy I have met having a substantial amount of hours in gliding which is very very important for every pilot to consider doing. Even me I consider doing that but maybe in a later stage. Also if at the end you decide to take the test pilot route you will realize that all the experience you have gained previously especially in gliding would help you a lot.

Of course an extra degree in the Aerospace Era would not harm. It will take you a step closer to what you actually want to achieve at the end. Not forgetting, competition would be always always always an obstacle in what ever you choose to do. Even with a good degree at a top notch modern university again you might end up doing something that has not the best value to you.

The first impression you gave me is that you want to become a Test Pilot at the end...someday. Now believe it or not that's what I want to do as well so we are in the same boat and both are struggling to find the best way to go for this. It will take a considerable amount of time and it is not easy.
Money and age is our big contributor.

:ugh: mate we just need to keep on hunting for the best opportunities and take decisions immediately. To be honest ERAU is one of the best options to go with i don't know i just have a positive feeling doing anything related to aviation with them.

It may cost more that you are willing to spend but at the end it is a better choice and a better investment.

Your choice is entirely yours at the end and don't forget to consider every other possible option.

All the best for you in the year 2015 and please keep-on expanding this thread as it is an interesting subject.

[portsharbourflyer]

Let me set the record straight, do an Aerospace Engineering degree if you want to be an Aerospace Engineer.

I wouldn't do an Aerospace Degree for the sake of enhancing your flying career prospects; it generally doesn't make that much of a difference.

appfo9, if you are from the UK then test flying on anything CS25 or multi engine CS23 tends to be the reserve of the ex-military grads who have gone through ETPS. Commercial flight training and an aero degree does not generally lead to test flying. The only test flying I have know to be done by someone from a pure civilian background in the UK is for the single engine LAA type stuff.

Mcfly87, properly accredited engineering degrees contain heavy maths and physics content, that is what an Engineering degree is. That is the type of degree that would allow you to go into the design / analysis side of Engineering. If you have the chance to do a proper Engineering degree combined with the flight training with no additional expense it sounds like a good option. A lot of the combined degrees with flight training tend to be based on aviation management for the degree content, so to hear of one that actually has a proper academic content is quite refreshing.

If you want something more practical do an HND go work in a hangar and work towards your Aircraft Maintenance licences.

Mcfly, your post to me suggest you understand very little about the aerospace engineering industry.

[Genghis the Engineer]

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/553922-do-degree-instructor-dont-too-impressed-flying-hours.html

Re your first paragraph - maybe - but have a look at this thread - there is a lot of crossover of content between some aero-eng degrees, and the American aviation degrees.

[mcfly87]

portsharbourflyer - I have nothing against maths and physics. The thing is that when you focus only on memorizing formulas, than you are simply not prepared to the real challenges. Unfortunately, our educational system here looks mainly like that and that is why I am hesitating. Just two days ago I saw very interesting interview with concerned University professor who gave a great example. He said that students here learn hard formulas for AC and DC. At the same time, students abroad learn how to install the socket without being shocked. Now, what is more practical?

appfo09 - thanks for your comments. You are right, gliding experience gave me a lot when it came to piloting powered aircraft. I found it pretty easy, especially precise landings (both on the runway and while doing outlanding simulations what is quite normal thing in gliding:) )

[portsharbourflyer]

Mcfly,

Well it is wise you have examined the course content carefully, a lot do get disappointed with aero eng when they find out it is largely maths and physics and there are not many modules which are really aircraft specific.
My aero eng coure had a 1 in 3 dropout rate in the first year partly for that reason. Although the accredited degrees here the in the UK do have some practical content the emphasis is still on the maths and physics, therefore the Engineering degrees in your country do not sound that different in content to what I studied. If you are after a more practical experience then I think the Licensed Aircraft Engineer route may be more your cup of tea.

Genghis, very interesting, will have to discuss next time I see you.

[mad_jock]

He said that students here learn hard formulas for AC and DC. At the same time, students abroad learn how to install the socket without being shocked. Now, what is more practical?

That is the difference between a professional Engineer and an installation technician.


If you want to be a pilot go to a pilot school.

If you want to be a professional Engineer go to a University.

As such a pilot is a technician following the mythology of the professional engineers design for use.

[Meikleour]

mcfly87: since you already hold a degree you should be aware of the differences in academic standards required between university and flight training.
So, any course offering flight training has to be diluting its academic quality.
Even ATPL exams are no where near that standard (think:multiple choice answers) more like secondary school!
If you look at other threads about the oversupply situation caused by CTC and P2Fly schemes within the industry you should see that doing a second degree will not enhance your employability at all. With a never ending supply of "fresh cadets" the airlines couldn't care less. Sad but true.
In the US the majors usually require a degree - hence the Embry Riddle type combined course. Sort of a fudge if you like.

Within Europe the only "safe" entry is via a sponsored scheme (like BA does) or take a gamble, and it's a BIG gamble on the CTC/OATS salespitch.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but the slide in this industry has been dramatic in the last few years.

[mcfly87]

From my perspective, it is not a question whether I should go for another degree or not but rather - where should I do it? As I wrote before, during my previous studies I became obsessed with aviation. All thanks to gliding and reaching another goals in this sport. At the beginning that was meant to be only a hobby but quickly turned into something way more than that.

I can continue my architectural career, save every penny, slowly build hours, do licences, ratings and wait for my time (which may never come knowing the current market situation). The problem is that long time ago I completely lost my enthusiasm to this industry and would do anything to be closer to planes, even if it is not directly connected to piloting.. or will not be in a short time. That is why I have made a decision of going for another engineering studies. Perhaps having architectural background could even be a plus in some sectors of aerospace engineering as it is closely related to ergonomics, construction and slightly to human factor (like at Bigelow Aerospace working on inflatable space habitats for example).

For now I am checking whether I could be accepted for any course at Master Level without Bachelor degree in similar field of study (but perhaps with a few undergraduate courses). As I have found out for now, only a few Universities in USA allow me to do that though with a restriction of going for structures area only. What do you think about such a move? I was hoping to do that on TU Delft (which I really admire) but the only option there is to start from the very beginning.