Typhoon with conformal tanks.

[sandozer]

Interesting.

UK downplays conformal fuel tanks for Eurofighter Typhoon - IHS Jane's 360 (http://www.janes.com/article/46665/uk-downplays-conformal-fuel-tanks-for-eurofighter-typhoon)

[Willard Whyte]

Don't know how the camel packs affect manoeuvrability of course, but all other things being equal it seems odd to rely on air-air refuelling rather than increase range independently.

[Thelma Viaduct]

The borrowers, proper skint again aren't we !!! Thanks George.

[LowObservable]

Interesting. The case being made here is that the aircraft works quite well with conventional tanks and AAR, so why complicate things?

The underlying point may be that CFTs are most valuable for an aircraft that is otherwise short of pylons (F-16) or if the non-CFT configuration is draggy (Shornet). There may be other considerations - the USN seems most keen on the CFTs for Growler, not only because of performance but because underwing tanks mask the field of view of the jam pods.

[t43562]

I was reading on one of the other threads that AAR is expensive - would aircraft with CFTs be cheaper to operate?

[Just This Once...]

CFT is linked with Stormshadow capability. Current priorities are PWIV and Brimstone.

[LowObservable]

That makes sense, JTO. Strategic mission, and the SSs displace two of the drop tanks.

[BEagle]

Perhaps more importantly, Air Cdre Beach stated (bold):

The August-September 2013 Syria crisis saw the RAF Typhoon force integrating its operation with ground-based radars at the British sovereign bases on Cyprus and a Royal Navy Type 45 air defence destroyer off shore. This involved the sharing of radar data across Link 16 networks, said Air Cdre Beach. "Our ability to change in dynamic circumstances, depending on who had the best picture, between the air, land or maritime assets having tactical command and control, and the Typhoon working to any one of them, and sharing the picture, was really impressive. The Operation 'Luminous' experience demonstrated just how closely air and maritime elements are able to work, exploiting the strengths of each platform, and using the Typhoon as the 'sharp end' of that capability."


Without wishing to make any comment on current capabilities, it would seem that it's pretty important that Voyager also needs to have a reliable MIDS.....

[KenV]

The underlying point may be that CFTs are most valuable for an aircraft that is otherwise short of pylons (F-16) or if the non-CFT configuration is draggy (Shornet).

Signature reduction ("stealth") is also a serious consideration. The Advanced Super Hornet includes many signature reduction features, among them are CFTs and a weapon pod that encloses weapons inside a low signature pod.

[Finningley Boy]

If conformal tanks are used in future and agility is still paramount, would uprated engines be the answer? Just a thought.

FB:)

[RedhillPhil]

They're shooting at the tanker?


He also described how RAF Typhoon crews are carrying out training with the aircraft's 27mm Mauser cannon. "We used it first on exercise in the Middle East, and we've also had great success in the UK in the air-to-air and air-to-surface roles," he said. "The other Eurofighter nations have used it, but primarily air-to-air. The question for us now is sustainability, logistics, and support; at the moment we could use the gun day-to-day if needed to because we could put the support structures in place, but we're taking a measured approach and not routinely operating it."

[MPN11]

I'm a little puzzled here.

Why should extended range "after the tanker" not be a desirable increase in capability? As Typhoon moves into the mud-moving and Recce environment, surely this would be a 'good thing'? Once the airframe is festooned with weaponry, any stealth aspects diminish ... but in the Recce role that's perhaps a more significant aspect.

Surely this is about reach, and CFT can achieve that while the AAR asset status well out of range of 'Whatever/Whoever"? The future scenario is an 'unknown unknown' an it seems a sensible option, even if not fleet-wide.

[KenV]

If conformal tanks are used in future and agility is still paramount, would uprated engines be the answer? Just a thought.


I can't speak for the Typhoon but the CFTs on the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 have no effect on agility. The flight envelope remains essentially unchanged.

[downsizer]

Lets be honest, it's all about cost.

[BEagle]

They're shooting at the tanker?


RedhillPhill have you the slightest idea what MIDS / Link16 actually is? Let alone its capabilities....:rolleyes:

[Lima Juliet]

BEags

Why would you put a datalink in a tanker when you're skint? The Typhoon has a RADAR and third-party tracks on its own datalink to find the tanker. I agree it's a 'nice to have' but not sure it's on the 'essential' list.

LJ

[BEagle]

Reprom. relay is but one example of why.....

[Lima Juliet]

If I remember my old JTIDS course, any JU is capable of relaying - it's supposed to be a nodeless system. I agree that sitting in the tanker tracks on the edge of 'sausage side' watching your receivers coming and going is excellent for your SA, but when we can't afford many other more essential bits of kit for our aircraft this would be a 'nice to have' in my opinion.

LJ :confused:

[Courtney Mil]

Link is not expensive and it is at its best when all your assets are on the net. Everyone has something to add to the picture, just imagine being a battle manager and knowing, for example, how much give-away all your tankers have.

Everyone should be on the net.

[busdriver02]

Courtney is correct, everyone should be on the net. As to CFTs I'll echo that it's all about money, unless widget X is the answer to an unresolved problem it won't get funded.

[Lima Juliet]

Courtney

Link is not expensive

You're having a laugh mate. The terminals might be 'reasonably priced' in aviation terms, but the extras come in the form of:

1. Trials and embodiment into a military aircraft. Even if a standalone machine that doesn't speak to the aircraft's systems then this can double the procurement costs for a small fleet like Voyager.
2. Setting up training for all those that work with it (aircrew and engineers).
3. Getting mission support for the datalink - network design and crypto.
4. Constant trials of new network designs and software improvements.

It isn't a turn-key solution of lets buy one and slap it in!

LJ

PS. I agree everyone should be on the net. But I also agree that all personnel should have an inflation busting pay rise; and that isn't going to happen either!!!

[GreenKnight121]

Don't know how the camel packs affect manoeuvrability of course, but all other things being equal it seems odd to rely on air-air refuelling rather than increase range independently.
I can't speak for the Typhoon but the CFTs on the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 have no effect on agility. The flight envelope remains essentially unchanged.

Isn't there a lower limit on Gs for maneuvers if there is fuel in the CFTs than there is if the CFTs are empty - for all those types (and Rafale & Typhoon as well)?

[KenV]

Isn't there a lower limit on Gs for maneuvers if there is fuel in the CFTs than there is if the CFTs are empty - for all those types (and Rafale & Typhoon as well)? 5th Dec 2014 17:44Isn't there a lower limit on Gs for maneuvers if there is fuel in the CFTs than there is if the CFTs are empty - for all those types (and Rafale & Typhoon as well)? No. The CFTs, empty or full, do not affect the aircraft G limits. Aero G limits are determined by gross weight of aircraft. Of course the fuel in the CFTs influences the gross weight. External stores have a much greater influence on G limits.

[CoffmanStarter]

For those interested ... Page 17 of the recently published "RAF Annual Review 2015" ... where Air Commodore Beach says that despite the plumbing on Tranche 3 Typhoon Builds ... conformal tanks aren't on his priority list ... where as AESA Radar is.

[Onceapilot]

Hmmmm, let me see, I am certain we had a widebody tanker with JTIDS!:uhoh:

OAP

[Just This Once...]

…and the VC-10 and even the C-130K….