Barnstorming, Aero's , Mile High Club, Zero G, Cessna

[Fionn101]

Good Morning from the Emerald Isle,

I am hoping to ask a question here to see to see if I have missed anything fun. And I need to draw on the collective wisdom here.

I setup a Day-trip type company to help fund my flying, instead of buying a car I bought a 16 seater Ford Transit and take people on aviation related days out across Ireland.

We have done heli tours, Hot air balloon rides , skydives , gliding , paragliding , air shows and a few fly-ins for a $100 hamburger.

which brings me to my latest endeavor, there is a large flying school in Dublin which has it's A.O.C. (ability to carry passenger for reward) and they have a lovely collection of C152 C172 and a C150 on Floats + a Multi engine.

I have arranged our first few scenic flights with this company , but aside from standard scenic flights I am wondering what else can we come up with, and I open this question out to the floor.

I myself would love nothing better than to land in a stretch of water for some lunch and photos. There are the 3 Arran islands we could go to but ideally I'm wondering "What would you do with a fleet of planes?"

I hope this conjures up some great ideas , but let's remember that there is Elf n Safety to consider.

some random musings:

There are a bunch of student pilots who have asked for Aero experience flights also. I'd say the pilot is keen too. Anyone know of what rule could stop 4 of us 1 plane ?

I have seen a few adverts for Dog fighting but I am not up to date on the software\ HUD side of things.

Always wanted to take out the seats of their baron and drop in a bed on a rack and join the club , I read before that a number of our forum used to drive these love planes ,would you mind telling me about the operation (bed rig , demographic etc)

let's not forget diving so fast that everything goes weightless, I of course have only read about this but it would sell tickets.

whatever ideas I have missed I look forward to hearing, I just like being in the air and this company affords a lot more time aloft.
Giving back to the G.A. community is most important and I'm not in this for a profit , I have already agreed fuel and instruction as my payment, to reduce costs all round.

I'm hoping some of our seasoned ageless pilots might shed some of their knowledge also @pzu @danny42c @marymeagher @fareastdriver

Thank you for reading this far, first beer is on me.
Fionn

[9 lives]

Fionn, are you a licensed pilot? Perhaps a review of your training will remind you that some of what you've mentioned is nearly impossible to fly legally, and other difficult to accomplish safely.

Having adventures in planes is great, but perhaps reining in your expectations would make your plan more palatable for others in our industry. There will be a line beyond which aviation will be less inclined to cater to non serious thrill seekers. You may be near that line.....

[shortstripper]

Step Turn,

They way I read the OP was that Fionn101 is not doing the flying but using the services of a licenced flying school and asking what they are legally allowed to do other than teach?
I think they are the ones to ask but assume it depends on their insurance, pilot qualifications and capabilities?

SS

[fujii]

Diving so fast that everything goes weightless.

I think you need to check your physics. Climb, push into a parabola, don't get too fast or the recovery may be more exciting than expected.

[mary meagher]

Sorry, Fionn, I can't picture any woman willing to expect a decent performance under the conditions you suggest....

Why not just go first class on Virgin, and spend some time in the WC? apparently there are those who have done it, but they must have been otherwise unfit to fly.....

[9 lives]

asking what they are legally allowed to do other than teach?

I expect the same meaning in the question, though am not certain, for lack of detail. I have some concern about ideas in the plan which are well away from routine flying, and not necessarily representative of responsible flying.

Before I rush to judgement, perhaps I'll get a bit more detail about the starting point for the plan.....

[thing]

Surely you have to go to Craggy Island?

[Fionn101]

Thanks ShortStripper you got it right. I will leave the flying to the professionals.

Short scenic flights around the city and points of interest are the primary revenue earner. I was just wondering if there are any other tours I could try with light aircraft?

I'm willing to test out any ideas we might come up with. To try bring something new to the market. So please let me know if you have an idea.

@Ms Meagher. It is precisely this first hand experience I wish to draw on ;-)
Surely in all our adventures we may have seen a flying tour that does something slightly different. That unique selling point.

At all our trips we have a BBQ party to wrap up the day and use the local services available so it's great to put a bit of money back in the airfield.
Beer planes and food is what I'm aiming at for a for a perfect Saturday , although not in that particular order !

Thanks you for the replies so far, and sage safety advice.

Fionn

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I think there's an outfit in the 'States that does 'mile high' experiences (bring your own partner). Might be worth a trip to investigate, then replicate it over here?

[9 lives]

I'm getting the concept now, some good ideas, I don't think we have anything of the sort in Canada. Innovative for a group with common interest to pursue it together for fun.

I think it very unlikely that you will find any organization who will (or is permitted to) do anything "aerobatic" with more than the pilot and one occupant. There are a couple of planes which are 4 seat aerobatic, but they are rare, expensive, and I believe can only have two seats occupied for aerobatic flight. So aerobatics, zero G, and dog fighting are not likely as a "team" activity, though participants could, one by one.

"Mile high" flights were flown in a Navajo at some point in the less mainstrean history of general aviation. I expect that such flights would proportionately very expensive, because even though you've take seats out to make space available, the operator of the plane will want a return for those seats anyway, so you're going to be spending $500+ per hour to send a Navajo up with three people aboard, as you still must have a seat for landing and takeoff for every occupant. For the same operating cost, you could get several more people up for a ride in it. Perhaps this would not be cost effective, but I leave that to the consumer to decide - if you can find a source of that service. Some not yet seasoned aviators might prefer to enjoy the experience of being airborne, while airborne, instead of being totally distracted by a mate, which could be equally as easily be accomplished on the ground. Personal preference, I guess....

If you want to go for broke, have the group travel to Canada, and tour the eastern arctic:

Trek & expeditions » Rapid Lake (http://www.rapidlake.com/category/news/trek-expeditions/)

I did this trip in my amphibian last summer, and it was incredible. The operator does offer fly in for people who arrive to Montreal with no plane. Big cost though, you can just about pay for a PPL with the same sum!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I once had a couple on a Concorde tour ask if they could use one of the toilets to 'join the mile high club'. I pointed out that the toilet doors had been removed, so they might have an audience. And they wouldn't qualify anyway as we were only 25 feet or so above the hangar floor.

[A and C]

I seem to remember the toilet on Concorde was so narrow that you had to decide what you wanted to do before you entered......... Only just enough space for the designed perpose.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Quite correct. Heaven knows how Pavrarotti managed!

[9 lives]

Quite correct. Heaven knows how Pavrarotti managed!

I thought that the Concord was so fast, that everyone could just wait until landing! ;)

[AN2 Driver]

Always wanted to take out the seats of their baron and drop in a bed on a rack and join the club

I recall reading about an outfit in California which offered this in a Saratoga.

One of my fellow AN2 drivers told me that shortly after the fall of the wall there was an outfit in one of these states who got hold of a former government Bac 111 I believe it was and offered flights like that.

Some folks tried to outfit an AN2 like that but it never took off as SEP comercial flights were not allowed at the time. But there is a company in Poland which makes very nice interiors for AN2s and out of space and privacy concerns, with enough cash, it would appear to me to be the ideal airframe for something like that, it's also big enough for people to move in the cabin without major trim changes. Tad expensive but after all, a mile is not that high.

http://www.planecheck.com/images/22594/img051112915559.jpg
This is one of them.

Or one can rent one of the biz jets which have full size bedrooms. All a question hof much money one wants to spend for this kind of thing.

Zero G: relatively easy to do, however, to do it right, you need a padded cabin and crewmembers to help. There is an outfit which offers zero g flights in Russia I believe, there used to be a zero G Caravelle in France operated by ESA. There is the one owned by NASA it should also not be too busy.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

You wouldn't need to remove any seats if you offered the Bill Clinton mile high club. :)

[foxmoth]

So aerobatics, zero G, and dog fighting are not likely as a "team" activity, though participants could, one by one.


Certainly at UH Goodwood this can all be done, as said, not all in one aircraft at the same time, but the "Top Gun" trip is about the most fun a non PPL can have with their clothes on! With their corporate day knowledge and experience UH are also very good at making it a proper team day if there is a group of people. Unfortunately I do not know anyone doing this in the Emerald Isle.

[ChickenHouse]

Weren't they: ASN Aircraft accident 19-OCT-2013 Pilatus PC-6/B2-H4 Turbo Porter OO-NAC (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=161542) trying some things you shouldn't do? ... The original post appears to me as having quite some potential for similar.

[mary meagher]

Long time ago, and to my best recollection on the West Coast of the United States, the pilot in charge of the light aircraft did not have his attention focused above his waist, and so flew into a cliff. Perhaps someone here can give the reference to the report of the accident, which tactfully mentioned the cause of his distraction and unusual injury...

[Fionn101]

@shaggysheepdriver - thank you very much. I do recall a pilot on the private forums talking about driving a twin around with such a setup and after a bit of a search I found Flamingo air who do such flights.
The owner , a gentleman by the name of Capt Muller has agreed to answer any questions I might have.
So can I safely put that idea to bed (sorry couldn't resist) and get all the operational info from him.

now to answer some of the other comments before we continue :

@Step Turn - thanks, as I kinda expected , I will keep the aerobatic experience flight to one person per flight. it would have been nice to fill the aircraft. I seem to remember Bob Hoover barrel rolling with a vehicle full of Generals (I saw the video!).

@shaggysheep - I never forgot my tour of Concorde onboard the Intrepid in NYC. such a beautiful design in so many ways.

@thing - feic ! , how could I forget the tv & film aspects of Ireland.
There is the famous Craggy island house and of course Game of Thrones is filmed here. But how recognisable this is from the air I am unsure.

@AN2 - thanks for the tip off , it helped with google search

@ChuckEllsworth - I admire your cost saving thinking Sir.

@Foxmoth - thank you for the name, I am looking at Goodwoods site and this is right up my street. a mix of aviation and stay packages , aerobatic experience flights and I am absolutely going to try get into a Spitfire at some stage in life. Tiger moth first though !

@chickenhouse - I seem to recall this pilot was attempting to join the mile high club as pilot in command, and therein lies the male multitask problem.

I was thinking of a suitable pilot up front, a simple curtain and engine drone to muffle the occupants in back.

@marymeagher - As the non flying passenger my attention shall be focused entirely in the enjoyable direction.

Fellow aviators, thanks for taking the time to give your input, the question still remains: what sort of tours can a flying school perform other than teach ?

Moderators - thanks for allowing this thread to continue , any of the successful ideas will be put forward at the next company meeting.

Safe Flying,
Fionn

[cockney steve]

which tactfully mentioned the cause of his distraction and unusual injury...
Passenger bit off more than she could chew? :}

[mary meagher]

That's the one.

[Fionn101]

Well I would like to say Thank You to everyone for their help.

My first Aviation day trip is now scheduled for Jan 16th and I'll pop back here to post some pics up afterwards (if it's ok to do so).

I have a bus arranged to take us from the city centre to aerodrome and then a low level VFR followed by some food and beer.

I must think of some sort of souvenir for our guests, I was thinking of getting a group photo out on the apron in front of the aircraft and posting this back up on the website , is this enough do you think ?

Cheers,
Fionn

[whifferdill]

Hi Fionn

What's your company called?

[Fionn101]

Hi Whifferdill,

I'm not sure if I am allowed to advertise on this forum, so I'll drop you a pm with the details and link to the site.

I'm on a text only browser at the moment (saves valuable kb) so will do this later if my memory stays.

Safe Flying,
Fionn

P.s. A quick Google tells me that Whifferdill is an aerobatic manoeuvre involving vertical and horizontal components , hmm, I never knew that before, but do tell me more about aero's if you are involved and how I might best get bums on seats for experience flights.
cheers.

[Flyingmac]

What a way to go... [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-86769.html)

[Fionn101]

trust the forum members to assume to be P.I.C. during all flying events ;-)

I am thinking more along the lines of Romantic Flights | Flamingo Air Inc. (http://flamingoair.net/romantic-flights)

CPL up front, passengers in the back.

I imagine there is a bit of regulation in the way but I'll ask my friends in the aviation authority.

thanks all, for continued input , I'll be back later with some gliding questions.

oh and who is the chap in Ireland with the amphibious machine (lake 400??) can anyone recall, I'd love to send some money that way.

while I think of it , will Vulcan XH558 display in Portrush this year ? I have to see my favourite plane in the sky just once. Their schedule is not out until April 2015.

apologies for randomness in questions,

Regards,
Fionn

[Saab Dastard]

I'm not sure if I am allowed to advertise on this forum

Simple answer - no you aren't!

SD

[Fionn101]

Morning All,

I wanted to say thank you again to everyone in the forum who helped me with the setup of Aviation experience days, especially those who pm'd such useful info as dealing with the public ;-)

I had a very successful launch day on Saturday and sent off 6 airplanes full of pax, which brought me finally back to the skies free of charge.

I put some pictures up but alas I am no photographer.
http://fionn101.imgur.com/ (no adverts here as per forum rules, just a few snaps from the apron )

Looking forward to the next event , thanks all again,
Safe Skies,
Fionn

[Unusual Attitude]

Dont you need and AOC for 'sightseeing trips' since they are deemed air transport rather than a trial lesson etc?

Not trying to be a killjoy but that was always my understanding of the matter....

Regards

UA

[Heliport]

The OP said in his first post that the flying school he's using has an AOC.

He's just an event organiser.