CTC WINGS ATPL

[kalsh]

Hi,

So I know this has probably been discussed many times before somewhere in the masses of threads, but it would be great if someone could enlighten me....

So I have been offered a place on CTC wings ATPL course, I'm due to start in January.

I just wanted to find out from past/recent CTC Wings ATPL cadets

1) What you’re experience is and if you have found a job once graduating from training?

I have heard a lot of various things and I am contemplating whether to go ahead with training, as I know it is a huge sum of money to pay.

2) How many people from the hold pool get a job after graduating and what is the turn around time? CTC say they have a 98% placement rate but of course this is probably not how many people actually get employed after training, must be how many people get interviews for a job right!!!

I’m sure ill have loads more to ask but this is all I can think of at the moment.

But having read this document I do feel a little stressed out on if I should actually pursue a career in it.

http://www.balpa.org/My-Airline/Airlines/Balpa/Document-library/Careers/Becoming-a-Pilot-The-Inside-Track-2013.aspx

Before I leave, a bit about myself. I am 24 a civil engineer in the rail sector, which is big and has no shortages of jobs. My dream has been to fly of course otherwise I wouldn't be posting here. But I am contemplating if the risk is worth my dream career knowing I could end up without a job and in debt. My parents have agreed to be my guarantor to sponsor my training.

Any help advice is much appreciated

[Mach Jump]

Kalsh:

It pains me to say this, and I know it's not what you want to hear, but DON'T DO IT! :=


Make a good career in the Rail Industry, get your own aeroplane, and fly for fun.:)

[PPRuNeUser0173]

Yes I agree with MJ. BALPA are not trying to sell you anything whereas CTC OAA and all the other schools are.


If you want the satisfaction of getting a professional licence then do it at one of the smaller modular schools as it will be much cheaper!


Better still get a PPL and a share in a nice single and fly on a sunny Sunday afternoon..........

[kalsh]

Hey thanks for your replies can i ask, do any of you guys fly commerically.
I have already got my PPL licence..

Still contemplating its such a hard decision. i also found this link on the telegraph.

Want to be a pilot? Count the cost first - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10761957/Want-to-be-a-pilot-Count-the-cost-first.html)

Reading such things is so demotiviating. But to some extent it is the hard truth.

[PPRuNeUser0173]

I have flown commercially (17 years in the airlines) and now do something non aviation related which pays the bills. I now fly smaller GA aircraft on an occasional basis only. I completely understand your desire to fly for a living but I would not advise anyone to enter the profession these days as the entry costs are too high and job prospects very low despite what "spin" the larger schools portray.
Enjoy your PPL flying....a lot of professional pilots hanker after those days!

[CaptainCriticalAngle]

If you have the cash or a loan, then I would go for it.

Even though you're not on a tagged scheme, the chances are that CTC will get you in front of an airline for a sim check. Most likely EJ, but it could be BA or Flybe ...

The rest is up to you - are you good enough?

[Mach Jump]

But to some extent it is the hard truth.

Sorry to be depressing.:sad:

It's very much the hard truth.

I was 11 years with an airline, and at first it was great, but by the end, I realised that the crews were regarded as no different to avtur.....to be bought at the cheapest possible price, and burned up.

Be suspicious of anyone on here who advises you to pursue an airline career (Check their previous posts.). They probably either work for CTC/Oxford. or are dreamers themselves. I don't know of any experienced airline pilots who would advise their kids to follow the same career.

[CaptainCriticalAngle]

Mach Jump

Have you checked my previous posts?

I don't work for CTC or anyone ...

[PPRuNeUser0173]

Bit sensitive aren't you Capt CA!
All we are doing is answering a question and with the experience that we both have of the industry are advising the OP to stick with his day job. It isn't personal against you. While we are on the subject - what is your experience of this industry? Care to elaborate further......

[CaptainCriticalAngle]

GolfDriver

Don't mean to come over as overly sensitive or aggressive, but I just want emphasize that I have no ulterior motives.

If someone asked me about doing an ab initio course at a cheap and dodgy foreign FTO I would advise them against it.

At CTC (like them or hate them) the fact is that as a cadet on their integrated ATPL course, there is a very high probability that you will get a chance with an airline.

Whether it is worth pursuing a career as a commercial airline pilot is another matter. I was talking about the chances of getting a job.

[average-punter]

The level of flight instruction is pretty good - most FIs make a large effort with their students and will do whatever they can to help.

The groundschool in Southampton was hit and miss, some instructors were excellent and some were very poor. I understand a key ATPL instructor has recently left the organisation which is a huge loss for them. As long as you put in the effort you will get the results, the content isn't overly difficult, it's the volume that is huge.

Most people seem to get jobs some wait substantially longer than others. The CTC cadet blogs are a good to read to understand about how the hold pool system works. It's a mystery to most people at CTC!

Have you already had 3 attempts at the BA FPP? If not, I would strongly advise giving it a shot before going down the CTC Wings road. The BA deal is by far the best in the UK for ab-initio programmes.

[kalsh]

I just wanted to thank all of you for your feedback. After thinking very long and hard, I've decided to stay in engineering. As much as it kills me to do this i think a 100K+ risk with no job guarantee in a depleted industry is not worth it at the moment. As some of you have pointed out i have my PPL, i personally think this will keep me more than happy with all the freedom to fly at my own will.

[B61]

Are CTC full ? I heard a rumour that some of the ATPL groundschool has had to be done at locations other than Southampton.

[average-punter]

Some courses have been sent out to New Zealand to complete the ground school, another course has also gone to propilot in Coventry.

Nursling currently resembles a building site, the installation of the new A320 simulator brought some serious disruption with it I understand.

[B61]

So no courses at all at Nurlsing at the moment ?

Is all the groundschool and simulators in one big building then ? I thought they had an office building, and a separate building like you would get on a retail park for the simulators.

Is the A320 one you could do a type rating on, or one which does not move, but has good graphics ?

Sounds like they must be spending a lot on facilities.

[average-punter]

Yes there still are ground school courses at Nursling.

Everything is indeed in the one building.

The new A320 sim is full motion.

[average-punter]

I'm pretty sure they are booming, seeing some of the director's cars adds value to my belief! I haven't been at Nursling for a while so not sure what is currently going on but when I was there there were a large number of airlines sending their crew their for type ratings. Oman Air, easyJet, BA to name a few and there was a group of Thomson Captains who I believe were coming off the 757 and going onto the 737.

I believe with the increase in MPL training and the number of airlines wanting A320 training CTC saw it as a good investment.

Not sure what it stands for, although one of my course mates suggested "cash taking :mad:" :}

[average-punter]

easyJet use the MPL and Virgin Atlantic have announced the launch of one. I believe BA Cityflyer run an MPL through FTE.

BA do have some of their simulators at Cranebank but capacity is an issue at the moment so the FPP cadets and guys coming off the 737 will do Airbus type ratings at CTC.

Ground school class size of 60 people certainly is a myth. When I did my ATPLs there were 17 people I think. I've said before that I dislike a lot of things about CTC, especially the manner in which they treat their customers and in some cases staff. I found the flight instruction to be generally very good, and the ground school teaching to be mostly good, with some classes of excellent teaching and some of very poor teaching.

The organisation in New Zealand is very poor compared to the UK operation, the weather in Hamilton is exceedingly frustrating for both trainees and instructors which leads to a lot of flight cancellations and a lot of wasted time.

[B61]

I have heard NZ described as the UK in the Pacific.

Sounds like the weather lives up to that description !

Why did they go there ? Perhaps it was because if students were not happy, the thought of a 24 hour flight home would make them think twice about giving up....

Portvale - is AZ short for Arizona... Or should that read NZ ?

Sounds like the simulator went where a 3rd classroom used to be.

[average-punter]

PortVale
AFAIK this is currently voluntary. However I have seen that the Virgin MPL specifies that flight training will be carried out in AZ. This matches my last conversation with a senior manager (although probably almost a year ago now!) where she said the way CTC was currently looking at it would be in the future to send MPL courses out to AZ. In actual fact there are currently no MPL cadets in AZ. I certainly wouldn't put it past them to start enforcing a particular location though.

[PPRuNeUser0173]

CTC = Crew Training Centre

[B61]

Where does "the Tron" come from as a name ? Does it mean New Zealand then ?

What were the better alternatives then ? I am guessing that there are things like no VAT on flying training in NZ

[ACA9463]

I looked at CTC and was impressed but in the end decided (based on my budget) to train at a school in Florida. Im loving every minute and am backing myself to get a job. My advice is, if your bright and have a rounded character there will be jobs as the market is picking up.

[Bloated Stomach]

CTC stands for "Captains, Training Captains"

From the horses mouth.

[mawright89]

According to Daphne at ctc, CTC is a mixture of the initials of the people who started the FTO.

It's a shame you have decided to stay in engineering, I'm currently on cp123 in nursing and will fly out to NZ in March. the ground school has been excellent so far and although as mentioned one of my favourite teachers has recently left, and another is on his way shortly the replacements have been getting prepared for a number of months now.

The easy jet and Virgin MPL students are planned to go out to Arizona, with the exception of cp123, due to ctc having been let down by diamond aircraft the MPL students are also coming to New Zealand with us.

Nothing in this world is guaranteed but ctc, in my opinion, and others in the industry I had spoken to, will be the best chance at getting placed within the airline within 2 years of starting..

Good luck with your current position and I hope you don't come to regret not giving it a shot.

[Piltdown Man]

Kalsh - you are a sensible person. Only reconsider when the supply of muppets has dried up. At the moment there appears to be an inexhaustible supply. And it's never too late, certainly you have until you are 40 or so. It takes just over one year to get a licence and be ready. When, and only when the airlines start screaming about the shortage and resort to sponsoring their own cadets will it be worthwhile. Remember, it's the job of the employer to pay!

Until then, enjoy your job and flying for fun!

[ywcaptain]

Hi everyone,
Yesturday I did my re-application for the wings programme and I had only pilapts to do because my 6 tasks were low the first time and bad for the negative right square and the multitasking

So yesterday all my 6 modules were much better but only one went wrong the multitasking where I loose confidence and I did mistakes I had on the screen 12 miss and 3 hits

But all the rest of my test is pretty good
Do you think I have a chance to pass ?
And are there any other people here who had the same case ?

Thanks for your answers :)