Group Captain Carol Vorderman

[The Helpful Stacker]

High flyer Carol Vorderman honoured by RAF - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11243710/High-flyer-Carol-Vorderman-honoured-by-RAF.html)

'Honorary Ambassador' for the Air Training Corps.

To be fair she isn't too bad in the uniform.;)

[Melchett01]

Well now I'm torn. I can't deny she wears it well, very well in fact. But I wasn't aware that looking good in a uniform was the sole prerequisite for making it to gp capt.

But she does look very very good in it, and in the right circumstances I'd happily call her Ma'am.

[Lima Juliet]

Notice the pictures stopped at the knees and unless she has kankles she cannot be a real WRAF! :E

LJ

PS. yes, before everyone starts, I know the WRAF doesn't exist anymore!

[Top Bunk Tester]

Yeah but you still would, eh Leon?

[Party Animal]

Yep - very much still in the envelope! ;)

Actually quite an interesting article and good for her, supporting her chosen causes.

[Lima Juliet]

:ok: ....

[Party Animal]

Just noticed a similar thread started by camelspyder. Better photos for you LJ courtesy of the Daily Mail - including some ankle porn if thats what floats your boat... :ooh:

[Lima Juliet]

Boat well and truly floated, thank you!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/20/235523A800000578-0-image-2_1416500310004.jpg

I hope she was hoping to fly the aircraft behind her, though!!! :eek:

LJ

[skua]

So she has severed one link with the RAF (an ex ex so to speak), and formed another! ;)

[BEagle]

When I met Carol earlier this year at Sywell, she was absolutely delightful. Very natural, no meeja-luvvy nonsense and she immediately agreed to meet the Spirit of Goole 'Build a Plane' http://www.thespiritofgoole.co.uk/ youngsters who were next to our pavilion.

She is a real champion for youngsters wanting to fly; Gp Capt Vorderman MBE will be of huge benefit to the Air Cadet organisation and I wish her well.

[chopper2004]

Had the pleasure of standing a few feet from her at Waddo in 2011, when she was chatting / interviewing the first female pilot of the Thunderbirds.

I found her very pleasant, warm, and very good looking (albeit even moreso in uniform lol :D) and down to earth.

Congratulations again and good luck in representing/promoting the ACO.

Cheers

[tartare]

An engineer, a scary smart mathematician, an appreciator of things that fly... and pretty damn foxy looking as well - especially in that uniform M'am.
What more could a chap ask for...

[chevvron]

If she's an engineer, maybe she can fix the problems with the Vigilant fleet (assuming they're still grounded).

[tartare]

Vigilant.
Ahhh - I see.... you're not missing an `e' after all.
Small light trainer, not large American bomber...

[chevvron]

It's the motor glider she's standing in front of in the photo at #8.

[Kitbag]

Why the medal ribbon?

[Cows getting bigger]

Carol Vodernman MBE

[barnstormer1968]

BEagle

Very well said :)
If I take aside the fact I have had a crush on Carol Vorderman for thirty years she is alway in the media and so will have plenty of opportunity to mention or promote the ATC, or will be mingling with people who have influence.
It's often a case of who you know rather than what you know when fund raising or promoting an organisation.

Well done to her.

[Yozzer]

I have no doubt that CV and indeed all VR(T) 'officers' do a power of good for the future generations, but I cannot help but think that this is closer to fancy dress than a serious uniform. An opinion fuelled to a great degree by an ex Army Sgt becoming an ATC Adult Sgt now employed full time as a TEST Sqn Ldr without ever crossing the threshold of OASC or passing through Plt Off > Flt Lt.

Should bone fide servicemen really have to treat these people with "Yes Sir - No Ma'am" and the usual protocols associated eith Commisioned Rank?

I reckon its time that a variation of rank badge was introduced so that you know exactly what person you are talking to. I have no sympathy with the RAFP as an organisation, but I once witnessed a VR(T) Flt Lt (w) chastising an RAF Policeman on the gate in NI for not saluting her. At that time no saluting occured on that gate, and she had been on unit for a day or so on an annual camp, and was wearing an unbuttoned DPM jacket over blues!

Before you all jump to attack, just remember that the opinionated Sqn Ldr at the bar may have no military experience whatsoever, yet has the confidence to throw his gifted rank around. It is going to be a brave JO who takes him around the back of the Mess for a horoscope reading.

[BEagle]

Yozzer wrote: Before you all jump to attack, just remember that the opinionated Sqn Ldr at the bar may have no military experience whatsoever, yet has the confidence to throw his gifted rank around. It is going to be a brave JO who takes him around the back of the Mess for a horoscope reading.

It would also be a very stupid JO who took such an ungentlemanly course of action.

By the way, have you never heard of 'Honorary appointments'?

[dallas]

The father-of-one, known to his friends as 'Duffy', is an RAF pal of Prince William who flew fighter jets in Iraq and joined the Red Arrows in 2008. He left three years later and set up a mobile phone app business.
HRH Apps? Thought William had been quiet...:8

[RUCAWO]

Yozzer you may find that the ATC WO has 26 yrs service in another dk green uniform with that being in constant threat ,including at home ,before becoming involved with the ACO or the skinny VRT glider pilot with five yrs military and 20 yrs dk green who in the last couple of weeks has been on the recieving end of an IED attack, or the couple who were in the dk green equivilent of 14Int :=
This is a good thing ,it has worked well with Sir Chris Hoy and at this years RIAT Carol Vorderman spent quite a while interacting with cadets on various stands and this is possibly where this appointment started.

[Cows getting bigger]

FFS, it is great PR for an organisation which does so much good.

[MPN11]

Best wishes for Gp Capt Vorderman.

She is not the first to assume such a role. Lorraine Kelly was appointed to the role of Honorary Colonel of the Black Watch battalion’s Army Cadet Force (ACF) in 2009.
Lorraine Kelly made Army Inspector | Metro News (http://metro.co.uk/2009/06/13/lorraine-kelly-made-army-inspector-191093/)

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm468/atco5473/Bear-Stuff/25130_10150150960730456_893785455_12042375_7068839_n.jpg (http://s319.photobucket.com/user/atco5473/media/Bear-Stuff/25130_10150150960730456_893785455_12042375_7068839_n.jpg.htm l)

[BirdController]

YOZZER: in another life when I was associated with a Somerset ATC Squadron the OC VR(T) Flt Lt was in his day job an Inspector with Avon & Somerset Constabulary - behind the Mess for a quiet chat, I doubt it!! :=:= (and his deputy was the town's Head Postmaster........). And yes, if I was still serving I would be happy to give either of them the respect their uniform deserves.

Well done Gp Capt Vorderman MBE, a brilliant ambassador for the cadets - still a fertile hunting ground for recruits to our current RAF I understand

[teeteringhead]

the cadets - still a fertile hunting ground for recruits to our current RAF I understand Indeed so - I believe that currently about 30% of all entrants - and 50% of aircrew - were cadets of some sort.

And Vorders does look well in her uniform ......

....... might even replace SO Harvey in BEags' affections! :ok:

[camelspyyder]

the respect their uniform deserves

If you respect the Queen's Commission, all well and good - but the uniform?

Ah! perhaps that was irony??

[teeteringhead]

Ah! perhaps that was irony?? Not irony surely, but synecdoche .... or do I mean metonymy?? :confused:

[I always get those two tropes confused .....:ugh:]

[Al R]

I suppose the modern equivalent is brand ambassador, well done her though.

[simon brown]

Whilst I think its great that these high profile personalities support such organisations I don't much care for them wearing the uniform they are not entitled to.

In fact I think its a bloody insult to those who have risen through the ranks based on merit and having served the nation to have to pay the necessary compliments to a TV personality who has not earned the commission but merely put on the uniform as fancy dress

Just like honorary degrees...another waste of time

[goudie]

The Army appointed Dan Snow as Honorary Colonel to the Territorials some time ago
Dan Snow recruited to publicise Territorial Army | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400710/Dan-Snow-recruited-to-publicise-Territorial-Army)

Gp Capt Vorderman MBE, wiil be a force for good for the ATC, IMHO

[MATELO]

In fact I think its a bloody insult to those who have risen through the ranks based on merit and having served the nation to have to pay the necessary compliments to a TV personality who has not earned the commission but merely put on the uniform as fancy dress


Wearing the uniform does not bother me one iota.

It is the person befitting the uniform that matters.

[Basil]

I happen to like Carol Vorderman but tend to agree with Yozzer and simon brown.
I am not totally opposed to honorary rank in the ATC, but Flying Officer would strike me as a more suitable gift to a celebrity who has not undergone RAF officer training.

[Melchett01]

So taking the Royal Honorary appointments to one side, how exactly do you treat a 'celebrity' appointment?

I would hope that as gentlemen, whether officer or NCO, sir and ma'am might be appropriate in the first instance, but that might just be me being a little old fashioned.

If the individual hasn't undergone selection or training, do they have 'honorary commissioning scrolls', what is the authority to wear the rank? If one has to salute celebrity honorary appointments because they hold a 'commission', does that mean they have the rights and privileges associated with a commission? If so, are we likely to be seeing the honorary appointments completing CCS and fitness tests? After all, CCS may not be mandatory above a certain rank (wg CD-R IIRC), but senior officers are still encouraged to lead by example.

All genuine questions rather than a fishing or trolling exped. If celebrities are appointed to these posts because of their access and media abilities, then do they really need to hold rank at all?

[phil9560]

I'm sure I recall reading that,regardless of the rank,a VR commission gave the maximum of Flt Lt seniority.I may be incorrect though.

[teeteringhead]

VR(T) are all (maximum) of substantive Fg Offs, all above that are acting, paid or unpaid.

And for the last 2 or 3 years VR(T) have gone through OASC.

Highest rank for "real" volunteers is Wg Cdr (Acting Paid).

If the Air Force List hadn't been scrubbed as a pathetic savings measure, it would have been obvious .......

[ExAscoteer]

VR(T) are all (maximum) of substantive Fg Offs, all above that are acting, paid or unpaid.

And for the last 2 or 3 years VR(T) have gone through OASC.



Indeed (although it's closer to 5 years IIRC). Additionally VR(T) Officers who have not previously held regular commissions are initially appointed as Officer Cadets and are required to do a weeks Initial Officers' Course at the Adult Training Facility at RAFC Cranwell within a calendar year of their appointment date, after which they are commissioned as Pilot Officers. Failure to complete the course to a satisfactory standard within the timescale results in removal from the VR(T).

[tmmorris]

Presumably CV didn't do any of that.

VR(T) don't currently have a fitness requirement though it is under discussion. Some ATC staff will be in trouble

[whowhenwhy]

Undoubtedly an excellent ambassador for an excellent youth organisation and looks fantastic in that uniform - I thought it was Kathryn Jenkins for a second.

I do take issue though with the award of honorary rank and with the wearing of the uniform. Surely they can be an ambassador for the organisation without being an honorary Group Captain, Flying Officer or Lieutenant Colonel? As people have rightly said, it is the character of the individual that is important. You get the braid/stripes/pips etc through (mostly) sheer bl00dy hard work, training, experience etc in your chosen service. Being given what is, visually at least, such a senior rank is innappropriate, IMHO.

slight strains of Susannah York though....

[Heathrow Harry]

Ask Princess Anne - she never did a day in the services but parades in an RN uniform on Remembrance Sunday

She did have her own Girl Guide Company at the Palace IIRC

[Basil]

Ask Princess Anne - she never did a day in the services
Ah, but Mummy is the Boss of us :ok:

[Yozzer]

A fair few medals for a few weeks at Lympstone:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Prins_Edward%2C_earl_av_Wessex_-_version_4.jpg/800px-Prins_Edward%2C_earl_av_Wessex_-_version_4.jpg

[Wander00]

Please DO NOT start on HRH The Princess Royal. She is probably the hardest working of the Royals, and is Patron or whatever of about 650 organisations, Royal Colonel of a number of regiments, and a "good egg" to boot. Visited an organisation of which I was effectively Ch Exec a number of times and impressive every time, as was the Admiral, her husband. Rant over!

[Simplythebeast]

Lymp what?

[Wander00]

Wot is his cap badge - does not look like RN?

[leopold bloom]

Wot is his cap badge - does not look like RN? Women's Auxiliary Baloon Corps?

[ShyTorque]

A fair few medals for a few weeks at Lympstone:

Wot is his cap badge - does not look like RN?

I'll ask him next time I pop in to see him.

[MPN11]

Commodore in Chief, Royal Fleet Auxiliary, I suggest.

Letters R F A visible in the circlet, if you zoom in.

[CoffmanStarter]

I believe the uniform above is that of Commodore-in-Chief of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary.

You beat me to it MPN11 :ok:

HRH is also Honorary Air Commodore Royal Air Force Waddington

[Shack37]

Back to CV. I doubt very much if she asked for either uniform or rank. Someone with clout must have made the suggestion and she probably felt it would be churlish to refuse.

A vowel please maám.

[TEEEJ]

Wander00 wrote

Wot is his cap badge - does not look like RN?

Commodore-in-Chief of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. See following for Orders, Decorations and Medals.

Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward,_Earl_of_Wessex)

[Tankertrashnav]

A fair few medals for a few weeks at Lympstone:

None of Prince Edward's medals are specifically military awards, although they can all be worn by military, as well as civilian recipients

His medal haul for his short period of military service was zero (as I'm sure you knew).

My only moan at Princess Anne is she will insist on those bloody awful uniform trousers. I stopped a female RN officer in Tesco's recently and complemented her on her very smart appearance, including skirt. She agreed that the skirt looks a lot smarter than the strides. Got a bollocking from Mrs TTN later, but it was worth it ;)

[Wander00]

TEEJ - thanks, can see it now

[Basil]

a female RN officer in Tesco's
Well, obviously - had she been an RAF officer you'd have been in Waitrose ;)

[Tankertrashnav]

Unlikely if she was based at Culdrose - nearest Waitrose is at Saltash which is 65 miles away. Waitrose knows we're all too skint in Cornwall to be bothered opening down here!

But I take your point!

[Could be the last?]

There doesn't seem to have been the same issues when Gp Capt Sir Chris Hoy was given the same role in 2013.......:confused:

[dallas]

They should give them all honorary wings too; if they're going to do it they might as well give them a few more badges.

Chat, recontrer les pigeons :}

[Basil]

There doesn't seem to have been the same issues when Gp Capt Sir Chris Hoy was given the same role in 2013.......
I wasn't aware that there were so many precedents.
Other than the royals, I'd missed those honorary appointments.

[Martin the Martian]

I seem to recall a certain prime minister who held the appointment between 1940 and 1945 who was fond of wearing light blue, dark blue or green uniform as he felt necessary.

[MAINJAFAD]

Martin the Martian

He had actually done time in the front line as a commissioned officer (highest rank was Lt Col) though and was an honorary Air Commodore of one of the Aux AF Squadrons (plus no doubt was involved with honorary positions in other services).

[whowhenwhy]

Ref Sir Hoy, at the time I felt exactly the same way but couldn't be bothered to comment. I was just following the crowd this time and offering my 2-penneth. Let's face it, the thread probably started because she looked great in rig, rather than the fact that she was in rig.

[Basil]

she looked great in rig
No dispute there :ok:

and very smartly turned out too.

[Basil]

I seem to recall a certain prime minister who held the appointment between 1940 and 1945 who was fond of wearing light blue, dark blue or green uniform as he felt necessary.
I doubt that I'll ruffle many feathers on here when I say, IMHO, he could wear anything he liked.

[teeteringhead]

And of course the interest in her, and through her into the Air Cadets, is exactly why she has been appointed.

And - judging by this thread - it seems to have worked!! :ok::ok:

[dazdaz1]

Slightly off topic, I taught Carol to swim 1970s when she was about 11-13 years old at Pontin's Prestatyn Pool. I've always wanted to get in touch again.

[Lima Juliet]

Brain

http://i.imgur.com/kaKIn.gif

LJ :ok:

[parabellum]

Really doesn't matter what rank these honorary appointments have, but it has to be senior enough to mean something for the work they do and the levels they move at.
Not certain about this but doesn't CV have two children who may well be cadets themselves?


I draw the line at honorary wings, brevets, etc. If the person hasn't done the full course and passed then they should, in my opinion, be worn on the opposite side to denote that they are honorary.

[Melchett01]

So if they haven't done a flying course an honorary brevet isn't appropriate, but senior rank is appropriate even if they haven't done the commissioning course?

By the same token of an honorary brevet being worn on the opposite side, there should be some differentiator to the badges of rank as worn to indicate an honorary appointment.

[mad_jock]

honestly get a fecking grip she could learn how to fly for under 500 euro but raf pish we are looking at 5-6k

[ShyTorque]

I've always wanted to get in touch again.

Judging by the responses here, you're in a waiting list. :p

[ShyTorque]

There doesn't seem to have been the same issues when Gp Capt Sir Chris Hoy was given the same role in 2013......

But to be fair, he wouldn't look so good in a frock and a hat.

[BEagle]

honestly get a fecking grip she could learn how to fly for under 500 euro but raf pish we are looking at 5-6k

:rolleyes:

Perhaps you are unaware that Carol already holds a PPL(A)?

[Basil]

raf pish we are looking at 5-6k
The Treasury wish :)

[Heathrow Harry]

"I seem to recall a certain prime minister who held the appointment between 1940 and 1945 who was fond of wearing light blue, dark blue or green uniform as he felt necessary"

But he did serve.......

cornet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornet_%28military_rank%29) (second lieutenant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_lieutenant)) in the 4th Queen's Own Hussars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Queen%27s_Own_Hussars) on 20 February 1895.


1897, three brigades of the British Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army) were going to fight against a Pashtun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_people) tribe in the North West Frontier of India and he asked his superior officer if he could join the fight.[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#cite_note-40) He fought under the command of General Jeffery, the commander of the second brigade operating in Malakand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malakand_Agency), in the Frontier region of British India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Raj)

1898. on attachment 21st Lancers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Lancers) serving in the Sudan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan) under the command of General Herbert Kitchener (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Kitchener). While in the Sudan, he participated in what has been described as the last meaningful British cavalry charge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_%28warfare%29), at the Battle of Omdurman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Omdurman) in September 1898


In 1900 he retired from the regular army, and in 1902 joined the Imperial Yeomanry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeomanry), commissioned as a Captain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_%28British_Army_and_Royal_Marines%29) in the Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Own_Oxfordshire_Hussars) on 4 January 1902.[56] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#cite_note-yeoman1-56) In April 1905, he was promoted to Major and appointed to command of the Henley Squadron of the Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars.

After his resignation from the government in 1915, Churchill rejoined the British Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army), After spending some time as a Major with the 2nd Battalion, Grenadier Guards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenadier_Guards), he was appointed Lieutenant-Colonel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant-Colonel), commanding the 6th Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Scots_Fusiliers) (part of the 9th (Scottish) Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_%28Scottish%29_Division)), on 1 January 1916. During his period of command, Ploegsteert was a "quiet sector," and the battalion did not take part in any set battle. , he exposed himself to danger by making excursions to the front line or into No Man's Land.[60] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#cite_note-60)

Plus of course he was First Lord of the Admiralty, learnt to fly BEFORE WW1 and was a great supporter to of the RNAS

[Tankertrashnav]

There's a photo in the RAF club of three kings wearing RAF uniform with pilots' wings. As far as I know both Edward VIII and George VI were qualified pilots but I have never heard that George V learned to fly, so in his case I think the wings really were honorary. One day of course we'll have a "proper" RAF pilot on the throne.

[PPRuNe Pop]

One day of course we'll have a "proper" RAF pilot on the throne.


Ain't that the truth!

[Warmtoast]

Tankertrashnav

There's a photo in the RAF club of three kings wearing RAF uniform with pilots' wings. As far as I know both Edward VIII and George VI were qualified pilots but I have never heard that George V learned to fly, so in his case I think the wings really were honorary. One day of course we'll have a "proper" RAF pilot on the throne.

Although George V wore the pilots brevet on his uniform he was never trained to fly. The Duke of York (later George VI) served in the RAF 1918-1919, gaining his wings in 1919. He was followed by his brothers Edward Prince of Wales (King Edward VIII, later Duke of Windsor) in 1929 and Prince George (later Duke of Kent) in 1930.

Here's a picture of three kings with wings.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/ThreeKingsandWings.jpg

[Warmtoast]

Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother was Honorary Air Commodore of Nos. 600 and 2600 (City of London) Squadrons being appointed to the rank in 1949. I cannot recall ever having seen the Queen Mum wearing an RAF uniform.


I was at Biggin Hill in 1955 when she visited Nos. 600 and 2600 (City of London) Squadrons on Saturday 23rd April 1955. She flew from Smith’s Lawn, Windsor Great Park, to Biggin Hill in a Westland WS-55 Whirlwind helicopter of the Fleet Air Arm, making her first helicopter flight. HM was received by AVM H. L. Patch, A.O.C. No. 11 Group. Later she reviewed a parade of both squadrons and watched a formation fly-past of No. 600 Sqn aircraft and a demonstration of Bofors gun-drill by No. 2600 Sqn.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Biggin%20Hill%20Early%201950s/QueenMotherPressCutting.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Biggin%20Hill%20Early%201950s/BigginQueenMumVisitto615Sqn.jpg


Taken as the Fleet Air Arm Westland WS-55 with the Queen Mother aboard departed from the helicopter pad on the station parade ground on her return to Windsor Great Park. Her visit was not a particularly nice for one airman in the guard of honour when she pointed out to the SWO (Station Warrant Officer) that the airman's shoes were not as shiny as the others with the result that he was confined to camp of 14-days - this "offence" was the talk of the Station and was not received very kindly and left a somewhat bitter taste.
It was also the occasion I believe when the then Under Secretary of State for Air, George Ward, who was present, was seen to be wearing socks of two different colours, one blue and one brown. When this discrepancy was pointed out, he famously commented: "I have another pair with the same colours in my wardrobe at home”!

[Wander00]

Wasn't QM also Hon Something of CFS?

[Tankertrashnav]

That's the picture I was thinking of, Warmtoast.

Thanks for the info.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Wander,
Yes - Commandant-in-Chief of CFS.

[Wander00]

Aah, thanks - could not quite recall the proper title

[BEagle]

Why does HM the Queen Mother have a dead cat on her arm in that photo?

[goudie]

Probably the remains of a fox BEagle.

that the airman's shoes were not as shiny as the others Rather unkind of her.
When she reviewed the Guard of Honour at Scampton in '58, as she passed me she turned to the Reviewing Officer and remarked that we 'all looked dreadfully young.' Which, of course, we were!

[langleybaston]

If, as a civilian Met. man, I am allowed an opinion on a service matter, I am relaxed on the issue of CV's appointment. This is 2014, and we must deal with it.

Consider this.

If, in 1988, WW III had broken out [and it was still cold war], C Met O BFG would have had his Dormant Commission as Group Captain stamped by the SofS, donned his combats, picked up a pistol, and assumed command of the now-RAF unit called BFG Met. He had previously had the same obligation as a Dormant Flt Lt at Guetersloh [included 1 BR Corps], and as a Dormant S/Ldr at JHQ. All of us had such a commission, and such an obligation. That was how it was, we were needed, we said yes, and we would have done it. Not necessarily brilliantly, but we were all there was.

Fast forward to 2014 ........ she is needed, she said yes, and she will do it.

[BEagle]

Ye Gods - a battalion of lightly armed weather-guessers in uniform. That would have had Ivan quaking in his boots....:confused:

[Lima Juliet]

Why does HM the Queen Mother have a dead cat on her arm in that photo?

Maybe it's Mrs Slocombe's pussy? :E

LJ

PS. Is that a 'red card' moment?

[langleybaston]

BEAGLE.

I suspect you rather miss the point, probably because you are, on this topic, ill-informed.

The MoD/RAF weather forecasters consistently out-performed all other NATO teams in the secret [and routine] forecasts for selected WP locations. The organisation was integrated in every WOC/COC, and in the deployed Harrier Force and the deployed 1 BR Corps. It was NBC trained and equipped and exercised.

When the Wall came down we discovered that we had also outperformed the WP teams FOR THEIR OWN AIRFIELDS.

Every day, on every base in BFG, in addition to routine Low levels for NW Europe, forecasts were prepared for the WP targets. All through the cold war. This would have continued in war.

No gongs. No complaints, we were all volunteers ... the money was good, although the MQs were not a patch on the houses we left in the UK.

Our motto was "when we are wrong no one forgets, when right, no one remembers".

We no more wasted time/space/momey than the crews and the tanks we supported.


back to the much more pleasant subject of CV?

[Danny42C]

BEagle and LJ,

It was a fox-fur stole. My old Mum had one when I was a boy (I was always rather sorry for the fox !). Very popular in those days, but not very PC today. :=

Don't suppose you could find one now.

D.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Prince Edward Island still has 3 fox farms. At the turn of the last century, it supplied 85% of the World's Silver Fox fur - at prices up to $2,600 per pelt - that's the equivalent of $60,000 per pelt today.
The furs were usually made into stoles by furriers in the big cities, such as San Francisco and Chicago, with a huge mark-up on the pelt price.

[Wander00]

I recall a former Chairman of Norwich City FC, a staunch Labour councillor and Mayor, who made his money selling expensive furs from a shop at the top end of the main shopping street in that Fine City

[Wensleydale]

"It was a fox-fur stole".

Didn't Prince Charles have it made into a hat?

[barnstormer1968]

Oh dear !
Why not remind us what his mum said about it too :)

[jindabyne]

When he was going to a fancy dress party? :)

[Danny42C]

barnstormer1968 and jyndabine,

Don't know the story - do tell !

The fox stole came complete with "mask" (same as a tiger-skin rug) - you can see it on the Q.M's arm. Ours always looked reproachfully at me (or so I thought), but really being killed by a hunter was a better option than being killed (first) and then eaten by its natural predator, the wolf.

(Then when we exterminated the wolf in these parts, we had to invent an artificial one - the foxhound. Then when the hound became non-PC, we have foxes all over the place. Where will it all end ? I ask myself).

The taxidermy was well done, it didn't pong at all.

On the subject of the Thread, with all due respect to Miss Vorderman, I have always had a vague feeling that there is something wrong with the whole idea.
Even in the case of Churchill, who was an honorary Air Commodore with an honorary brevet, it's not quite right (he'd done some flying, too - he recalled one mishap as being "stalling between two fools !"

D.

[diginagain]

Prince Charles turns up for an official visit to Walsall and is shown round by the Mayor. He’s wearing his best shiny buttoned blazer but on his head he’s got a big hat made from red fur. Eventually the Mayor’s curiosity gets the better of him and he asks the Prince why he’s wearing this strange headgear. ‘Well,’ says Charles. ‘I told mummy I was going to Walsall and she said, “Walsall? Wear the fox hat”.’

[Thomas coupling]

5 pages so far and only the first two on Carol!
I have to say - the uniform takes all the good looks away from our Carol - dreadful and dreary kit she's wearing. Loved her bod on Pride of Britain - that reminds me, where is her MILF badge and bar?

Fit as a butchers dog for 53 - our Carol.

[Basil]

as she passed me she turned to the Reviewing Officer and remarked that we 'all looked dreadfully young.'
It's good to have a long memory :E

[Basil]

"when we are wrong no one forgets, when right, no one remembers"
Ain't that the truth!

[goudie]

“Walsall?Hull was also a good contender when telling this joke.

With regard to Honorary uniforms, isn't it just a way of inducting a person into the Service and showing recognition for the role they will be expected to carry out?

It's good to have a long memory

Basil it's the only type of memory I have left! Now where was I?:confused:

[Mr C Hinecap]

Nice to see that PPRuNe can still bring out the misogynistic dirty old men in droves. I suppose a twitch down there is some sign of life for many.

[teeteringhead]

And the Bromide in BEagle's tea at The Towers all those years ago must be working at last.

Women in uniform and no mention of this officer:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2011/1/16/1295183059863/Susannah-York-007.jpg

[Photo cropped out of blood pressure considerations!]

[Wander00]

I wondered how long it would take...........................

[Basil]

. . misogynistic dirty old men in droves. I suppose a twitch down there is some sign of life for many
Well, I guess that's pilots for you - giggity!
http://www.seeklogo.com/images/F/Family_Guy_Quagmire-logo-16019D6BAD-seeklogo.com.gif

[langleybaston]

#97 was not Walsall, it was RAF Laarbruch, as any fule kno.

[gr4techie]

"when we are wrong no one forgets, when right, no one remembers"

Basically... Nobody has ever forgotten you.

Sometimes the Met Office website amazes me how even the live forecast is incorrect. Do they not have windows?

[MPN11]

I had the pleasure of working with the Tac Met guys down at Stanley in 83.

OK, not as pretty as posted earlier, but they were dumped into a strange and extreme environment/climate with minimal room for error. And they did a wonderful job. Cheers, Brian (IIRC), who came home with me on the C-130 and the VC10.

I didn't give a sh*t what they wore, within the bounds of decency :cool:

[salad-dodger]

Is there the equivalent of PPRuNe for weather folk where they can share their tales of derring do? You know, with threads for forecasters, presenters, weather techies, cloud gazers, storm chasers and the rest of the loons. Please share the address if there is, I'm dying for more.

S-D

[ImageGear]

To come back to the subject of discussion,

Will the honourable ambassador have been provided with at least a sufficient introduction to the service, to allow her to properly represent the rank at all levels. from the perspective of protocol, standards of dress, history and ethos, etc; in both theoretical and practical terms. ?

Is there a short course with a minimum standard for Honourable appointments? I am sure it will be both warranted. and expected. The lady surely will be expected to "carry it off"

Imagegear

[langleybaston]

Quote:
Sometimes the Met Office website amazes me how even the live forecast is incorrect. Do they not have windows?

Yes, of course "we" got/get it wrong on occasion.

Tell me, in which other field of human endeavour are forecasters/predictors/soothsayers more consistently accurate?

Financial: no
Political: no
Traffic: no
Medical: no
Int: no
Volcanoes/earthquakes: no

The fact is that you and I and all the other British tax payers are paying a very small amount each year for the very best forecasting service in one of the most difficult environments on earth. As a subscriber, you are of course entitled to a whinge. Constructive criticism is preferred.

[teeteringhead]

the very best forecasting service in one of the most difficult environments on earth. One recalls a metman many years ago (Linton-on-Ouse? Syerston?) theorising that "British Unflappability" was a direct result of our notoriously unpredictable weather. On the principle that if we put up with the weather, nothing much else will faze us.

Seems reasonable to me - can't imagine what excitable Italians (other national stereotypes are available) would do in the face of our weather. ;)

[Warmtoast]

Met Office New Super Computer
£97m supercomputer makes UK world-leader in weather and climate science - Met Office (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/archive/2014/new-hpc)


Talking about this in the pub one wag commented that with all this new computing power they (the Met Office) will be able to get their forecasts wrong quicker!

[Basil]

can't imagine what excitable Italians (other national stereotypes are available) would do in the face of our weather.
Awakens a genetic urge to run ice cream parlours and fish & chip shops :ok:

Nae offence meant to the Spellas, Giuntolis, Nardinis etc where I used to live ;)

[langleybaston]

I swear that what follows is true.

I went on many field deployments with the Met. wagon. Most of these were joint NATO, or AFCENT or Northag. I was also UK TACEVAL rep. shafting NATO bases for three years.

I was constantly asked "how do you guys do that?" by Americans, Canadians, Germans, Italians and Danes. "That" was ordinary workaday forecasts of night minimum temperature, day max, fog formation, rain timing, bread and butter stuff.

We were NOT asked by the Belgians or the Dutch. Why not?

The latter two sent their some of field forecasters to the Met Office College to train, where they learned not to rely on crude computer predictions orginating in the USA or indeed anywhere else.

To this day the UK computer is a tool, and not an oracle, for the guidance of the wise, not the obedience of fools. As each model improves on its predecessor, so the fools can slowly take over of course.

[Danny42C]

teeteringhead,

(Your #112): "On the principle that if we put up with the weather, nothing much else will faze us".

Why do you suppose that our ancestors sallied forth and colonised most of the known world ? - they couldn't put up with the weather back here any longer, that's why !

D.

[Melchett01]

Salad-dodger,

You have no idea of the excitement you can get from understanding geostrophic winds, thickness levels and entropy.

A well plotted tephigram is frankly a work of art, and if you can accurately calculate the MINTRA level, well whoaaaaaa, that's like giving your average crewman a 3 month old copy of The Sun when he's been on det for 5 months. :ok:

[langleybaston]

after what I thought had been a cracking tour serving 2,4,19 and 92 at RAF Guetersloh, my last briefing in front of the 1000 bomber raid-type assembly was followed by the Staish:

"Thanks for everything, now we won't need to adjust your contrail forecasts for your personal [and constant] error".

Now he tells me!

[Fg Off Bloggs]

Forgive me but I can't be bothered to read all 6 pages but I wish to air a few points. I just hope that they haven't already been covered and stand ready to take flak if they have.

For Yozzer who said:

I reckon its time that a variation of rank badge

Rank badge or not it's the VRT on her lapels that denotes her relative position in this regard!

For others:

It might surprise you to know that all VRT officers undergo a Cranwell-endorsed OT course within their squadrons and then have to pass a 2-week intensive IOTC at RAFC Cranwell before they are commission confirmed! The whole process can take over 2 years to complete and there are no 'gizzits' or Green Shield passes! I have, in a previous incarnation, suspended VRT officers from their training as a result of poor progress or lack of suitability!

I have no great wish to see ranks inflated on a popularity vote but the role of 'ambassador' is, I am sure you would agree, better served in a senior position rather than in that of a junior officer no matter their previous credentials!

Bloggs:rolleyes:

[chevvron]

Things have changed since I got my commission then. I was commissioned as acting Plt Off and had to satisfactorily complete a 1 week Initial Officers Course at Newton within 12 months. After 12 months and course completed, I was promoted to Fg Off.
On being given command of a Squadron, I was promoted to acting Flt Lt and once again had to satisfactorily complete a 1 week Senior Officers course at Newton.

[teeteringhead]

It might surprise you to know that all VRT officers undergo a Cranwell-endorsed OT course within their squadrons and then have to pass a 2-week intensive IOTC at RAFC Cranwell before they are commission confirmed! Things have indeed changed chevvron, but not as much as Bloggs suggests.

Not all Sqns have a "Cranwell-endorsed OT course" embedded - the better ones do have local training, but it is not mandatory, nor is it officially "endorsed" by HQAC at Cranwell. If it were, it would be mandatory.

The VR(T) candidates do go through OASC - but without medical and fitness test. OASC grades them in a "batting order", but the yes/no decision is made by one of the Regional Commandants or the HQAC COS, who acts as overall Board Chairman. They then wear the insignia of Officer Cadets - white tabs and cap band - until their commission is confirmed after the one week initial course at the ACO Adult Training Facility (ATF) at Cranwell. They are then Pilot Officers. When appointed as Sqn Cdrs, they undergo another one week course at ATF before they are paid in the rank of Flt Lt (Fg Off is time promotion at present).

Apart from OASC, not that different from that which chevvron describes.....:ok:

[Melchett01]

I have no great wish to see ranks inflated on a popularity vote but the role of 'ambassador' is, I am sure you would agree, better served in a senior position rather than in that of a junior officer no matter their previous credentials!

In which case give the role to someone with relevant experience and credibility from within the service. There are plenty of ACMs, AMs and AVMs happy to serve as Fg Offs on AEFs, I'm sure you could find one happy to step down to Gp Capt. However, if you are going to effectively turn the role in to a marketing position by giving it to somebody on the basis of their media access and credentials, it doesn't need to come with a commission regardless of who they are or how well they fill the uniform.

[air pig]

CV looks a hell of a lot better in her uniform than my old matron did.

[Q-RTF-X]

I’m pretty sure I will rattle a few cages with this post but do so without any qualms. I served 17 good years in the Air Force leaving as a Sergeant with a reasonably good write-up. I have remained in aviation ever since and worked and played with many former and serving RAF types in my civilian life; commissioned and non commissioned alike.

My RAF experience in fact moulded my entire career, my early background as an ATC Cadet then a Boy Entrant being pointers to my early commitment. On the family side, My father was an Air Gunner in WWII and later (after I was enlisted as a Boy Entrant) was commissioned in the VR(T) branch later still becoming a Squadron Commander. Oh, just on the side my Grandfather was a RNAS CPO in the engineering branch during WWI.

I have always held the Air Force in high esteem but, reading this topic has left me dismayed and wondering where many, a percentage at least whom I assume have a military background, have come from.

To read many of the comments here one would be excused believing that an honorary appointment is something new in British military structure; it is not, although admittedly more frequently encountered with the army and then mostly filled by Royals. It needs be considered that an appointee to an honorary position, especially in the Air Force where honorary appointments are few, is generally of one who has a profile and ethos that places them in a position of respect and has been selected to fill that position by virtue of what is hoped that individual can bring to the table. There are great expectations of the chosen individual who gets no payment for filling the post though he or she can be expected to devote quite some time furthering the needs of their specific field of interest. I would also fully expect to find Group Captain Vorderman has to dip into her own resources from time to time.

There are some rather distracting comparisons posted here. To me there seem to be many not thinking this out in rational terms and there is an awful lot of comparing apples with oranges. Typically “there are plenty of ACMs, AMs and AVMs happy to serve as Fg Offs on AEF”. True certainly but (and I stand to be corrected here) I believe they will draw pay for periods of official duty, and I think it is also pretty reasonable to suggest their interest is as much in flying for the sheer pleasure of it as for youth work. I venture to suggest it would be hard to find an ACM, AM or AVM who has the skill set, personality, network of contacts and experience that those making the appointment identified as desirable when appointing Group Captain Vorderman

Then there are the rants by some that she should attend formal basic training in order to carry the rank and wear the uniform. I rather suspect she has plenty of advisers guiding her on necessary subtleties’ and anyhow, at the end of the day, she is not going to take parades, march in file or listen to charges, it’s not part of her remit. Nor is she the cause of people stagnating in promotion lists or jumping the waiting list for an OMQ. She is a person who has been appointed to a position that has its’ own rather special requirements and guidelines. She wears her uniform well and in fact looks better turned out than many serving officers.

The following words alone makes her deserving of some respect “Ms Vorderman, 53, has long been associated with RAF linked charities including the Royal Air Forces Association, the RAF Benevolent Fund and the Bomber Command Memorial committee, leading the Salute Area in Green Park when the Queen unveiled the memorial in June 2012.”

I really think people should look at the issue with a little more perspective rather than let their own petty gripes or insecurities get the better of them.

Per ardua ad astra

[FleurDeLys]

Didn't ruffle my feathers - very well put, I thought Q-RTF-X

About the only negative re Gp Capt Vordeman's appointment I can think of is my suspicion that her standing as a science/technology role model, esp to young women, is perhaps best recognised by an age-group slightly older than that targeted by the RAF or ATC for recruitment. But thats small stuff: overall, I'm in favour.

I see Gp Capt Sir Chris Hoy is another such ambassador appointment. Haven't heard any odd remarks about that one....

[teeteringhead]

I see Gp Capt Sir Chris Hoy is another such ambassador appointment. Haven't heard any odd remarks about that one.... Although I did hear a remark from a lady (sic) that she'd like to see Sir Chris' bum in tight mess kit trousers....... :eek::E

[pulse1]

As this thread is discussing many aspects of honorary ranks in the RAF, may be allowed to invade to ask a question which I have wondered about for many years.

A friend of mine, sadly no longer with us, was a medical doctor and held a fairly high position in the Biological Warfare Establishment at Porton. As such he traveled extensively and, whenever possible, he had to use RAF transport for security reasons. As a civil servant he told me that he held an honorary rank of Air Commodore and often speculated that, in the unlikely event of a diversion when civilian passengers had to be put up overnight, that he might have to take responsibility for them as the senior officer on board. Presumably in the air, the captain would be in command.

Was this just conjecture on his part or could it have happened?

[dctyke]

And what about the good old days when we actually had hospitals. Was not unusual to see an air rank surgeon or whatever propped up against the bar with junior ranks on first name terms. I would not have though any of them had done much of the Cranwell experience. I remember it always irked one particular Stn Cdr at Halton when he was put in his place by a higher rank when he had a go over Friday night shenanigans in the nurses bar. Always reminded me a bit like MASH.

[langleybaston]

As a very junior Assistant Experimental Officer I was posted to RAF Nicosia in 1961 and informed at Hendon [on 1st April!] that I was senior officer passenger on the Britannia and handed a brief case of despatches to deliver.

I had never met Equivalent Military Rank before. I managed to slope shoulders, a skill that I worked on thereafter.

The idea of being i/c hairy a*sed WOs was terrifying [and still is].

[SamYeager]

As a civil servant he told me that he held an honorary rank of Air Commodore and often speculated that, in the unlikely event of a diversion when civilian passengers had to be put up overnight, that he might have to take responsibility for them as the senior officer on board.

I suspect he meant that he had an equivalent military rank, as mentioned by langleybaston above, rather than an honorary rank.

[Union Jack]

CV looks a hell of a lot better in her uniform than my old matron did. - Air Pig

Only "in"!?:uhoh:

Jack

[The Nip]

Will being an honorary Gp Capt. assist CV in her solo round the world flight?

Ps, I too think she will be an asset and wish her all the best.

[dazdaz1]

Not many know this, Beaches Hotel, Prestatyn have a Carol Vorderman suite with photos around the walls:E

[Wander00]

So you mean you can get to sleep with C..V...

[dctyke]

Com'on, sleeping would be a waste......

[NutLoose]

20,000 plus views..... I do wonder if Group Captain Boris Johnson would draw such attention......

:p

[MPN11]

NutLoose, Boris would have to have a bloody haircut before being allowed ANYWHERE near a Military uniform. :mad:

[bobward]

As a former-VRT officer, now a CI, I'd like to offer a couple of points to this long, drawn out and frequently rambling discussion.

It seems to me that HQ Air cadets is finally getting into the hearts and minds arena with these appointments. It started a few years ago when they issued all the CI's with ATC-badged sports shirts and sweatshirts. Up to then, adult staff had nothing, and this lead to a whole shimmy of dress - some good some not.This simple act has given us much more of a corporate identity, and unit pride.

Now they have appointed two people who are Corps ambassadors:D
Anything that boosts the Corps image and standing in the wider world must be seen as a positive step, if only that it makes it that much harder for the bean counters to scrap the whole organisation as a cost saving measure.

Like the rest of the 4,000 or so ATC staff, these two people will be giving up their time to 'promote an interest in the RAF' (to paraphrase the Corps ideals). Surely that is something worth doing?

I'm sure many of you out there will have a view on this. Over to you!

[chopper2004]

@Teetering Head,

Now where is the rest of that vidcap......the full length cap lol not with Chris Plummer in :) RIP to Susannah though the other year.

So hopefully we will see Carol at RIAT (as received email announcing the ticket sales start now) as Waddo will not be happening.

Cheers

[teeteringhead]

So hopefully we will see Carol at RIAT Last year she was at RIAT and Cosford, amongst other things talking to cadets and staff. Maybe that's where the idea started.

And I'll see what I can do about that Vidcap chopper, may need to consult with BEag's cardiologist first though! :ok:

[BEagle]

teeteringhead, no need thanks. I have the DVD.....:ok:

[Party Animal]

It needs be considered that an appointee to an honorary position, especially in the Air Force where honorary appointments are few, is generally of one who has a profile and ethos that places them in a position of respect and has been selected to fill that position by virtue of what is hoped that individual can bring to the table.


Q-RTF-X,

An excellent post above. I only have 30+ years RAF service but absolutely agree that both Sir Chris and Carol are superb selections for honorary appointments. It would be an absolute pleasure to meet or work with either of them and in any capacity.

I would certainly have a different view if our very senior leadership were ever stupid enough to go for a 'yoof culture tattooed chimp from I'm a Dancing Chef in the Jungle celebrity land' but that's just me.

[teeteringhead]

tattooed chimp from I'm a Dancing Chef in the Jungle celebrity land :D:D:D jhdkfjsdlfsdlfksdfk

[FantomZorbin]

Party Animal
Oh yes!! ... brilliant :D:D:D

[chopper2004]

@Teeterhead and Beags

FOund the full length version :D down the page lol

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/485332-swos-2.html

Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving, and Black Friday etc etc :)

[Roland Pulfrew]

Looks like the new gp capt wasn't far away last night

Halton (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/air-cadet-bands-wow-vorderman-01122014)

[Wander00]

Brilliant - and who is the 3*?

[GolfSierra]

Impressive music by Devon and Somerset Wing.

YouTube Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZr6A3TRA6U)

[teeteringhead]

Brilliant - and who is the 3*? AMP - Baz North.

[Wander00]

Thanks - good to see the competition supported at a high level. The cadets - simply excellent, and a great example of the yoof of today. They, and their parents and instructors, should be very proud.

[622]

Nice to see these people giving up their time help, but what do these people actually do?


I am a little confused as to their purpose?


Don't get me wrong, I am all in favour of getting the ACO recognised..I just don't understand - are they to inspire the current cadets, encourage financial backers or recruit new Cadets.
If it's the latter, then I don't think I have see either of them in any sort of campaign.

[ShyTorque]

Don't get me wrong, I am all in favour of getting the ACO recognised..I just don't understand - are they to inspire the current cadets, encourage financial backers or recruit new Cadets.
If it's the latter, then I don't think I have see either of them in any sort of campaign.

I don't think she was appointed to inspire the cadets because as far as I can see, apart for a select few, it hasn't been publicised within.
My daughter has been an Air Cadet for well over three years (she's now an SNCO and very keen to join the RAF as a career) and she hasn't been made aware of Ms. Vorderman's role or even who she is.

[teeteringhead]

I don't think she was appointed to inspire the cadets because as far as I can see, apart for a select few, it hasn't been publicised within.
My daughter has been an Air Cadet for well over three years (she's now an SNCO and very keen to join the RAF as a career) and she hasn't been made aware of Ms. Vorderman's role or even who she is. She will be Shy, have no doubt. The announcement was only formally made on (I think) 20th November, and her (CV's) programme is in its very early stages.

She is keen to do lots and I'm sure she will.

It's been all over Air Cadet websites and social meeja, and promulgated down the Chain of Command. But you can never guarantee info being passed on .......

Did she know about Chris Hoy?

[ericferret]

Having viewed this weeks Sun newspaper I would like to propose that Madonna be offered a similar position. The position she has assumed on the pages of the Sun leads me to believe she would be perfect for the job.

[Training Risky]

You have a good point there.

Madonna has two good points.

[goudie]

Madonna be offered a similar position.

Any position with Madonna will be ok by me:)

[ShyTorque]

But you can never guarantee info being passed on .......

Did she know about Chris Hoy?

True, it might be a local issue. I just asked her about Chris Hoy. She had little idea about who he is.

[teeteringhead]

Kids eh! :ugh:

[ShyTorque]

I meant local as in unit level... she's a bright enough kid.

[jindabyne]

Most, if not all, here will disagree. But I don't think it's appropriate. But there we are :hmm:

[Mechta]

Ok Jindabyne, Who would you propose for the role, or if you consider using a 'celebrity' to do this is not 'appropriate', how would you get a similar amount of publicity for the Air Cadets for the same expenditure?

[Training Risky]

How about Nigel Lamb? Red Bull air race winner and Rhodesian Air Force pilot.

Nigel Lamb | Red Bull Air Race (http://www.redbullairrace.com/en_GB/athlete/nigel-lamb)

Or is it the fact that good old Carol is on telly sufficient enough to gain her Gp Capt's rank?

[Shack37]

Posted by Training Risky


How about Nigel Lamb? Red Bull air race winner and Rhodesian Air Force
pilot


Well, there we have it. Earlier posts have shown that there are those who do not know of either Chris Hoy or Carol Vorderman which I found unusual. I now realise that it is not unusual because I have to confess that I have never heard of Nigel Lamb. If the plan is to get as much publicity as possible for the cadets then I think Hoy and Vorderman will prove more valuable.

[Training Risky]

If the plan is to get as much publicity as possible for the cadets then I think Hoy and Vorderman will prove more valuable.

Agreed. If good publicity is all the ACO is after, then Carol is an appropriate choice. But they shouldn't pretend that it has anything to do with her maths degree and her PPL...it's all about the public profile.

[Mechta]

greed. If good publicity is all the ACO is after, then Carol is an appropriate choice. But they shouldn't pretend that it has anything to do with her maths degree and her PPL...it's all about the public profile.

Its about the sum of all three. There are plenty of people with either the first two or last two.

[Training Risky]

Ha ha...I'm not sure if the first word of your quote of my post is meant to be ironic and indicative of the MOD's approach to PR spin!:ok:

[teeteringhead]

And she appears to be taking it seriously too. At Halton, she was "practicing saluting" and seeking advice on how much (how little?) slap was appropriate with uniform.

My spies tell me she wants to learn drill too! :ok: Cue VERY long line of willing DIs....!!

[jindabyne]

Mechta,

OK. After studying her profile in more detail, I'll happily withdraw my 'inappropriate' observation: reinforced by an old colleague who once shared a dinner occasion with her. I guess my remark was fuelled by an increasing disregard for 'celebrity status' in our society. Brought on by increasing age - which I enjoy!!

[Mechta]

Training Risky, No, that was a genuine error on my part due to Ppruning when I should have been tucked up in bed. As you say it could be apt.

Jindabyne, No problem. What impressed me about Carol Vorderman is despite fame and evident intellect she doesn't take herself too seriously. To quote her on a talk show, "Google 'mutton dressed up as lamb' and the top ten links are about me".
I wasn't so impressed by her promoting a high interest loans company a while back; but we all have to eat, and only she and her bank know the state of her own bank balance at the time.

[sitigeltfel]

Gp Capt Vorderman in moral boosting visit.....

Carol Vorderman jets into Dundee to help fundraising efforts - Dundee / Local / News / The Courier (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/dundee/carol-vorderman-jets-into-dundee-to-help-fundraising-efforts-1.842475)

[Martin the Martian]

And a very humble thumbs up to Rebecca. An inspirational young lady.

[RUCAWO]

Rebecca has now raised close to £15 K for the hospice and going strong.

https://www.justgiving.com/Rebecca-Dalgleish/

[dragartist]

She's on at the RAeS next month.


Royal Aeronautical Society | Event | Amy Johnson Lecture 2015 (http://www.aerosociety.com/Events/Event-List/1972/Amy-Johnson-Lecture-2015?utm_source=The+Royal+Aeronautical+Society+e-communications&utm_campaign=4eb7fcab11-NL93_Amy_J_15&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_01701ea34d-4eb7fcab11-292706298)


If folks want to meet up for a beer in town before the last train home lets see what we can arrange.

[Chugalug2]

This is a very accomplished and dedicated lady. Accomplished by not only having become a celebrity, but perhaps more pertinent to our purposes being a trained engineer and pilot. Dedicated because she is on a mission to encourage young people, especially girls, to aspire to such demanding pursuits themselves. The RAF badly needs such aspiration to take root and this appointment will hopefully assist in that.

Just think of what triggered your determination to pass all the tests, jump through all the paper hoops, deal with all the setbacks that stood in your way. Chances are that someone inspired you to be like them, emulate them, succeed like them. I see that her attempts to inspire are not limited to HM Forces but to the Aero Industry as well. Don't know about others, but she inspires me:-

Countdown on for high fliers of the future - Fleetwood Weekly News (http://www.fleetwoodtoday.co.uk/news/countdown-on-for-high-fliers-of-the-future-1-7323673)

BBC iPlayer - Carol Vorderman: Flying Engineer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05zr3fy/carol-vorderman-flying-engineer)

[johnfairr]

"New York, New York - so good they named it twice"

;);)

[Bigglesthefrog]

She is 56 and she's very cleaver. She's done a lot of things in her life and most of that was a help to many people. Her service to the Air Training Corps is absolutely vital as the government have been sniping the budget almost every year and now, it seems, the poor cadets have nothing to fly!!
When I was an ATC cadet I had looped a Chippy at 14 years of age, flown many times in Gliders and had lots of fun turning up at RAF flying camps in ATC uniform in order to bum flights in many RAF aircraft of the day. Sadly the poor cadets can't do any of that these days due to the aforementioned government cuts and turning up anywhere in uniform is not advised due to the possibility of adverse action by a few minority groups that are almost supported by our Lilly livered governments today. Hopefully Carol Vorderman's well know tenacity and perseverance may shame the government into returning some of the money they have ripped off from the youngsters, no doubt to pay the flagging foreign aid budget!
Lastly, she looks terrific in her uniform and I can't think of any guy that I know would refuse an invitation to dinner and champers with her. That's why wives reach for their rolling pins when her name is mentioned!!

[Dutystude]

Biggles

I agree, opportunities are not what they once were. But, for balance, there are still plenty of cadets who get to loop an aircraft - Tutor now - before they turn 14.

[Brat]

Define plenty.

As an enthusiastic ATC cadet at school in Africa, then later in the UK where I was then sent gliding at Tangmere, I feel sorry for this extended grounding that the Air Cadets are going through now, and feel the CV was a very good choice as an ambassador.

[Dutystude]

Brat

Plenty, as a measure, is subjective. It cannot be defined.

But my experience is that plenty of cadets still get to fly a loop before they turn 14.

[esa-aardvark]

I did at 14 or less (?), but then I am 75 next birthday.

Son of a friend went powered solo at 16, seriously clever.
As far as I know his family paid for his training.
Has guaranteed entrance to a certain university irrespective
of A level results. Does not know whether to pursue aviation
or something else, ie academia.

[Basil]

I doubt Gp Capt Vorderman will be taking her new BF to any RAF stations or The Club wearing a short sleeved shirt :E

[YellowTom]

You'll either be pleasantly surprised or shocked Mr Basil! The rule book says tattoos mustn't be visible when you're wearing full Number 1s, any other time is acceptable. So neck, wrists and face tend to be the only place people can't choose to have a tattoo. And yes, I've seen officers as well as NCOs in short sleeves with whole arms of tattoos (and PTIs with legs covered in them).

[Basil]

YT, I wasn't referring to RAF personnel so #1, #2 or #100 doesn't come into it.
If someone wishes to be inked from wrist to chest that is, of course, their personal decision; just don't expect to be accepted by everyone.

Congratulations upon your knowledge of 'the rule book'.

[jindabyne]

Inked from Dick to Head is OK then - very apt.

[Danny42C]

I have a far greater respect for (Hon) Gp Capt Vorderman than for another lady (Hon) Lt Cdr (RNR) of our aquaintance.

Danny42C.

[Auster Fan]

She opened the new International Aviation Academy in Norwich yesterday, along with Commandant Air Cadets, Air Commodore Dawn McAfferty. Her impact on the Cadets she meets should not be underestimated and on the few occasions that I met the Commandant before I left the Corps, I never ceased to be impreessed...
http://http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/carol-vorderman-speaks-of-joy-as-international-aviation-academy-opens-in-norwich-1-5136765

[Linedog]

She opened the new International Aviation Academy in Norwich yesterday, along with Commandant Air Cadets, Air Commodore Dawn McAfferty. Her impact on the Cadets she meets should not be underestimated and on the few occasions that I met the Commandant before I left the Corps, I never ceased to be impreessed...
http://http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/carol-vorderman-speaks-of-joy-as-international-aviation-academy-opens-in-norwich-1-5136765

Too many http:// in there.

[BEagle]

Try Carol Vorderman speaks of joy as International Aviation Academy opens in Norwich - Latest Norfolk and Suffolk News - Eastern Daily Press (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/carol-vorderman-speaks-of-joy-as-international-aviation-academy-opens-in-norwich-1-5136765)

[Treble one]

Anyone identify the Gp Cpt's medal ribbon?

[camelspyyder]

Carol Vorderman MBE RAFVR(T)

[Stuntmole]

Anyone identify the Gp Cpt's medal ribbon?

The clue is on the plaque!!

[Treble one]

Apologies-was thinking military not civilian-thank you.

[Shack37]

Origunally posted by camelspyyder


Carol Vorderman MBE RAFVR(T)


Reminds me of when she was on the TV program "Countdown" just after receiving the MBE recounting that her daughter said it meant "Mum´s Bum´s Enormous". With that humour she fits well in the RAF IMHO.

[Sky Sports]

https://x.com/aircadets/status/1755599886991654967?s=46

It would appear that the Air Cadets have finally lost patience with Carol's political rantings on social media, and all the negative press attention that brought. Although her departed was 'planned'!

[downsizer]

https://x.com/aircadets/status/1755599886991654967?s=46

It would appear that the Air Cadets have finally lost patience with Carol's political rantings on social media, and all the negative press attention that brought. Although her departed was 'planned'!

Does anyone care? Why is this even news? Honestly IDNGAF about an Air Cadet cling on.

[chopper2004]

https://x.com/aircadets/status/1755599886991654967?s=46

It would appear that the Air Cadets have finally lost patience with Carol's political rantings on social media, and all the negative press attention that brought. Although her departed was 'planned'!

Does not surprise me as every other day or week, she rants politically ......any the above link dont work no more - but couple of times, I have walked past herself at RIAT, first time was 2018, and she looked emotionless and unhappu while walking amongst group of cadets and their band, and second time was inside ops building by the tower at riat 2019...as was attending the Aribus Bird of Prey briefing.

cheers

[RAFEngO74to09]

"Carol Vorderman MBE formally comes to the end of her 10 year commission after becoming the first female Honorary Group Captain and Ambassador for the RAF Air Cadets in its history in 2014."
https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1759546824791069056

[bobward]

I wonder who they might have in mind to replace her?
Any suggestions everyone?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I have met her and talked to her and she was a nice person with aviation and the Cadets evidently close to her heart,


That said she lacked any appreciation for the fact that wearing a military uniform inhibits what you can do politically.

She is VERY outspoken on politics and HMG policy. She is outspoken daily and her account is controlled by Momentum supporting hard Left agents.

That is not on.

WWW

[Asturias56]

"She has referred to the government as "a lying bunch of greedy, corrupt, destructive, hateful, divisive, gaslighting crooks".[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Vorderman#cite_note-topping2-40)"

So she agrees with the vast majority of UK voters?

[SWBKCB]

She is outspoken daily and her account is controlled by Momentum supporting hard Left agents.

Your opinion, or you can support the comment?

[wub]

I wonder who they might have in mind to replace her?
Any suggestions everyone?

Katie Price

[Rigga]

MIND THE DOOR…!
Probably done more good than harm.

[Finningley Boy]

"She has referred to the government as "a lying bunch of greedy, corrupt, destructive, hateful, divisive, gaslighting crooks".[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Vorderman#cite_note-topping2-40)"

So she agrees with the vast majority of UK voters?
And what do we expect from the almost certain Labour Government? Just an observation (and by the way, I regard the current Conservative government to be incomprehensibly incompetent and frightened of their own shadow, one explanation for some of their governing being more like a Labour government) but since 1945 there have been three Labour PMs with their own mandate: Attlee, Wilson and Blair. There have been nine Tories: Churchill, Eden, McMillan, Heath, Thatcher, Major, Cameron, May, and Johnson. On average Labour leaders last a term, Tories last about two terms and are more likely to handover to someone who will secure their own mandate, never happened like that for Labour yet. Now class, get together in your groups and discuss?

FB

[Expatrick]

I wonder who they might have in mind to replace her?
Any suggestions everyone?

Bird in a biplane?

[stevef]

How about Carol Kirkwood? I'm sure Langley would approve. :)