A320/320 Side Step aproaches

[alatriste]

Hi there,

I would like to know the proper tech to fly an ILS apch and thereafter, side step to a paralell runway.
If weather conditions are not nice and you need to remain on instruments below 1000 AFE. How can you manage to get out of the LOC/GS mode and untune the ILS frequency?
How can be a FOQA warning or a GPWS mode 5 activation(GS) be avoided?
All of the above considering that is not wise to activate the SEC-FPL (for a visual apch to pararell) at such a low altitudes.

Thanks in advance, any advice will be very welcomed.

[Intruder]

I don't fly the Airbus, but why would the technique be any different from any circling approach: Runway in sight, disconnect autopilot, fly VISUALLY to the runway using PAPI/VASI for GS guidance. You will NOT have time to mess with radio tuning. You most likely will not have time to mess with MCP modes.

I didn't know that FOQA generates any warnings. GPWS Mode 5 should not activate unless the parallel runway is closer than the initial runway, and you "dive for the deck" to get to its GS. You should brief the possibility of a GPWS warning, as well as crosscheck criteria (e.g., PAPI display) that allow you to ignore it.

If you go all the way to sidestep minimums, you may have a hard time stabilizing on centerline by 500' AFE, so you may have to make an aggressive initial lineup maneuver, or go around and get a straight-in approach to the other runway.

[tom775257]

A sidestep is a visual manouevre, so if you are IMC at 1000' you shouldn't be thinking of a self position side step (and chances are even if visual I doubt any airlines stable criteria could be met)

So visual, asked to sidestep, AP off, FD off, bird on, go and land on the other runway. I would prefer the other runway already in secondary if using parallel operations, get the other person to activate secondary to get the missed approach in the box. Check missed approach altitude is the same, set accordingly on FCU. All in all not great to do very close in.

[mjg737]

If you need to remain on instruments you wouldn't be sidestepping.

[CanadianAirbusPilot]

A side step means you are leaving all the fancy magic behind on the other approach. Bare minimum is AP off, FD off and fly yourself to the new runway. A few things you can do if you are expecting it?

Load the other runway in the secondary without an approach. If you brief the other pilot they can pop it in and this will make sure the GPWS does not get excited. Also if your airline does not state what pages you must have in your MCDU you could have the secondary runway in the prog page for distance so you can calculate your 3:1 descent if you don't have VASI/PAPI or the like.

At the end of the day it is a visual manoeuvre and you shouldn't need anything. Sometimes a side step is pretty simple (LAX 25L to R, SFO 28R to L) other times it is not as easy (MEX 23L to R or to a lesser degree 05R to L) or you may have more space to cover (YVR 26L/R) Other times it gets more fun when it's not a side step but changing runways completely (though this usually happens above 1000 feet, though you may not have time to plug in the next approach).

What do you actually need for a side step? The Mk1 eye ball and the ability to fly the plane.

[alatriste]

Thanks to everyone for your inputs.

We do all know how to fly an airplane to a paralell runway or perform visual aproaches according Airbus SOP.
It seems that almost everybody agree to activate (as soon as in visual contact) a SEC-FPLN with a visual aproach to the landing runway. I do also agree.
My initial inquiry was looking for a more practical or expeditious way to get rid off the ILS APP mode with actions such as erasing the ILS freq on RAD-NAv page or push to disarm APP on MCP/FCU or both. I don´t know if this would work.
My concerns are about LOC deviation below stabilizing gate and chances of get a GS caution on short final when the LOC/GS index had been removed from the PFD after pushing FD to off, LS to off and bird on.
Be advise that some companies are really strict on stabilizing aproach citeria and any deviation recorded by the FOQA is closely revised. No matter if you are following PAPI or on visual conditions.

My final goal is being able to fly a side step "natural way" but without exciting the FOQA gate keeper.

REGARDS.

[tubby linton]

Activating the secondary should clear any fmgc tuned navaids, if you have only selected the runway.

[vilas]

alatriste
Your condition for circling approach is erroneous. If you are on instruments at 1000ft. and stabilised you are in a position to continue on the existing runway. Any change at that stage being in IMC should lead to go around. Assuming that you are visual at 1000ft and asked to side step just disarm APP, FDs OFF, select bird and set RW track, turn and align with the RW. ILS frequency is locked below 700ft. If you have already prepared secondary for side step by selecting only that RW you can activate that, otherwise it is too late for head down work.

[alatriste]

Vilas,

So it´s understood that below 700 AGL and in LOC/GS captured mode, switching off APP will not untune ILS frequency and too late to activate secondary.
Above 700 AGL, FD off, APP off and BIRD on will "erase" ILS APP mode on PFD so that a visual can be flown without any nuisance regarding LOC or GS deviation from initail ILS loaded on MCDU.

[vilas]

alatriste
Switching off AP has nothing to do with ILS frequency. AP ON or OFF the frequency is frozen below 700FT. You may activate secondary if the RW is already there. Also you need to switch off LS buttons

[MCDU2]

It would be wise to confirm the missed approach instructions with atc before activating any SEC plan as they may well be expecting you to fly the published from the instrument approach you initially performed prior to accepting a visual side step.

[CanadianAirbusPilot]

I suppose different SOPs at different places. For us we are using 500 feet or 100 above which ever is higher. With that in mind, you can brief things if they are out of the norm. A good example is the expressway visual into LGA. If bank angle is part of your stable criteria it would be pretty hard to be stable on that approach, unless you're in a helicopter I suppose.

I personally always brief a side step if runway set up would make it feasible. I was flying with a guy when after briefing the side step he mentioned, he's never seen it at that airport. As it turns out the plane before us hit a bird on landing and we did side step from fairly low alt (no time to plug anything into the computer), no drama!

Some companies like guys using all the magic available, my company encourages us to manually fly when it's appropriate, and use the magic when it is a benefit.

[alatriste]

Vilas,
You said AP( autopilot ) ON or OFF doesnot make any diference on ILS below 700 AGL. That is quite obvious. I guess you meant APP (aproach button on MCP) didn´t you?
So, to sumarize below 700 AGL even with AP OFF, FD off, APP off, LSs off the ILS freq will be frozen and the ONLY way to erase ILS is to activate the SEC-FPLN for visual apch to the adjacent RWY.

Thanks for your sharing.

[Amadis of Gaul]

My personal policy is no sidestep below 1,000 AGL, and no sidestep at all, if we didn't brief it, so that we're both on the same page with respect to a sidestep. I'm paid by the minute, I have no problem going around and getting re-sequenced.

[Rocket3837]

1) Do not disengage the automatics (AP/FD/ATHR).
2) activate SEC FPLN (if it is already programmed with new RWY), otherwise change RWY in the primary FPLN (recommended).
3) aircraft will automatically turn towards and intercept the new LOC and it will pitch UP/DN to maintain the new GS.
4) FMA will keep showing GS & LOC.
5) GPWS will not activate as the new GS is close the old GS.


I found the aircraft (320/A330/A340) does it much better if it is taken by HDG then rearming APPR (follow new GS by controlling VS until fully established). Thanks

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

Seriously - can't we just disconnect everything when visual and FTFA?!:ugh:

[bubbers44]

Yes, SnR, FTFA is an approved method for any pilot that can handfly.

[Rocket3837]

Snr & bubbers44

Of course you can FTFA if you feel that you will mess with the automatics.

My last post was meant for IMC app

[vilas]

What is FTFA?

[CanadianAirbusPilot]

FTFA… My guess it's what we all got into this thing for… Fly the :mad: airplane.

Back on topic.. I would not be using the automation to side step from close in for a few reasons. The airbus can be fairly aggressive in intercepting the loc or g/s (especially closer in) and you as the pilot can (well should) be able to do it much smoother, even leaving the FDs on re arming the approach if you "need" the magic. My technique personally is to simply do it with the Mk I eye ball but some guys like using the magic (to each their own).

[aterpster]

You have to be on your "A Game" to side-step at Los Angeles when the weather is at, or near, side-step minimums:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/aterpster/KLAXILSorLOCRwy6R_zpsc94b560b.jpg

[Sky Wave]

1) Do not disengage the automatics (AP/FD/ATHR).
2) activate SEC FPLN (if it is already programmed with new RWY), otherwise change RWY in the primary FPLN (recommended).
3) aircraft will automatically turn towards and intercept the new LOC and it will pitch UP/DN to maintain the new GS.
4) FMA will keep showing GS & LOC.
5) GPWS will not activate as the new GS is close the old GS.


I found the aircraft (320/A330/A340) does it much better if it is taken by HDG then rearming APPR (follow new GS by controlling VS until fully established). Thanks

WTF?

AP off, FD off, Bird on and activate the secondary.

Simples.

[aterpster]

OK465:

That's very clever the way they give you a sidestep option from the runway closest to the terminal over to a runway further from the terminal so on your taxi to the terminal after landing you can hold to cross the original runway you would have landed on had you not sidestepped.

Every runway at LAX has side-step minimums to the adjacent runway.

[aterpster]

ok465:

The sidestep minimums are only associated with the ILSs, not the runways.

The RNAVs have no sidestep minima below basic VFR, not even circling.

LAX was the "test case" for side-step minimums. They came about when all CTL minimums for the airport were deleted. RNAV wasn't even a dream at the time.

Besides, no one flies RNAV approaches at LAX. Having said that, RNAV side-step minimums are authorized in FAAO 8260.19F.

[Microburst2002]

A sidestep on the spur of the moment can be done quicky without nuisances if you switch the GPWS G/S mode OFF. No FMS reprogramming. For go around, follow ATC instructions. A sidestep is a particular case of visual approach.
In the airbus, even GS mini will be quite useful since wind should be similar.

If the sidestep is foreseen, then activate secondary.

[Amadis of Gaul]

That's too easy. If you can't frantically punch away at the MCDU, why live?

[aterpster]

Micro:

A sidestep is a particular case of visual approach.

With those sidestep minimums chart for KLAX above?

[Microburst2002]

Interesting: sidestep minima!

Never seen before, but this gringos, you know them… ;)

And it can't be assimilated to a circling approach either: 343 ft is below circling minima.

[vilas]

aterpster
side step remains a visual manoeuvre even with a minima. Since the runway that is being side stepped into does not have a glide slope the side step minima is prescribed otherwise you will have to use circling minima which much higher. There is Jeppesen document below will clear your doubts.
http://ww1.jeppesen.com/download/aopa/mar00aopa.pdf

[aterpster]

Villas:

side step remains a visual manoeuvre even with a minima. Since the runway that is being side stepped into does not have a glide slope the side step minima is prescribed otherwise you will have to use circling minima which much higher. There is Jeppesen document below will clear your doubts.

1. LAX does not have circling minimums.

2. Runway 6L has a full ILS with approach lights just as 6R does. (see below.)

3. I have no doubt that an MDA of less than 400 feet above runway elevation with RVR of 5,000 is a visual maneuver in the same sense that landing straight in with a DA 0f 200 and RVR 2400 is a visual maneuver.

As the Jeppesen article states, I must have the "runway environment" in sight to sidestep from 6R to 6L or 6L to 6R. That could just be the approach lights without the runway in sight when I begin the sidestep maneuver at under 500 feet, msl.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/aterpster/KLAXILS6L_zps6e59fceb.jpg

[vilas]

aterpster
LAX may have other reasons for side step. May be when designed had only one ILS. The point is you cannot be asked to side step when not visual when near minima. That requires head down work. As I can see from 06R to left is a small change 06 left is very close. Any change more than 15 degrees becomes circling approach and cannot be done if not permitted.

[Amadis of Gaul]

I'd refuse such a clearance. I'm not sidestepping anything at 400', not paid enough.

[Microburst2002]

For that kind of runways the sidestep is almost non-existent.

It is like landing in a taxiway instead of the runway.

LOC minima is more than enough for that, but of course you should know which runway you are landing well before 343' AGL...

[aterpster]

OK465:

Though the viz mins are aircraft speed category related, the real consideration as far as how challenging the sidesteps are to fly from closer in and down lower is not only the aircraft speed category, but the roll inertia involved.

I have FAA source documentation back to 1998. The earliest change I have is 2001 where the DAs are the same as today, but the RVR was 6000.

I was based at LAX from 1964 to 1990 and never recall sidestep minimums like these. I did it a few times but in basically VFR conditions and at least 3 miles out.

If someone actually does it today at these minimums I believe sooner or later a fireball would be the result. Sometimes the FAA is just plain nuts.

[aterpster]

OK465:

The FAA doesn't operate any 500,000 lb flight check aircraft.

But a lot of pilot union members do. Perhaps they know something we don't. When I have a chance I'll try to find something in the ATC Handbook.

[Capn Bloggs]

06L to 06R 214m sidestep and 300m shorter aimpoint all from 320ft AGL sounds a bit sus to me? :confused: I'd get done like a dog's dinner by the FDAP if I tried that here...

[aterpster]

From the FAA controller's handbook:

4-8-7. SIDE-STEP MANEUVER



Side-step Maneuver. When authorized by an instrument approach procedure, you may clear an aircraft for an approach to one runway and inform the aircraft that landing will be made on a parallel runway.

EXAMPLE-
"Cleared I-L-S Runway seven left approach. Side-step to runway seven right.”

NOTE-
Side-step maneuvers require higher weather minima/ MDA. These higher minima/MDA are published on the instrument approach charts.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Indeed, Capt Bloggs, such antics would earn me a carpet dance as well.

[peekay4]

Interesting NASA ASRS Report:

An ATC local controller requested a late sidestep maneuver to lax runway 24L. The A319 crew refused because of the heads down attention diversion late in approach.

NASA ASRS Report 687822 (http://www.37000feet.com/report/687822/ATC-local-controller-requested-a-late-sidestep-maneuver-to-lax-runway)

[cosmo kramer]

My company allows sidesteps down to 300 feet (i.e. wings level, on centerline of the sidestepping runway latest 300 feet, and during the maneuver of course all other stabilized criteria met). So it is entirely possible to be become VMC at less than 1000 feet and break off to a parallel runway at e.g. 700 feet. If it can avoid a go-around due to someone not taking off fast enough at the original runway - why not give it a try, and if it doesn't work: TOGA.

However, in such case (no matter type), I would absolutely say to keep heads up and concentrate on flying the aircraft - both pilots. PM being just as active looking outside and monitoring flight instruments, for excessive deviations.

If the company have chosen to allow sidesteps at such low altitudes, and it triggers e.g. a "below G/S" warning for the original runway, I think whoever analyses the FODA data should be able to interpret the situation and discard it as being within limits of the SOP. And should they have questions, it shouldn't be difficult to explain the situation and why a go around was not performed, if everything was within limits.

What is written in you SOPs about the subject? And what about sending your safety department an email inquiring about the subject. I know there are some companies that uses FODA to punish. My company is fortunately sensible and a FODA is no big deal if there is a rational explanation. Most of the time they are even sensible enough to sort the irrelevant excursion out by themselves.

This is an example of FODA being contra productive to safety. I.e. causing you to take actions to avoid a FODA, distracting from on the task at hand.