Raw data and manual flying

[V1GO]

Just as a matter of interest, I'm wondering what other companies philosophies are regarding "Raw data" and "manual flying".
I know some companies having SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures), in which autopilot should be selected ON just after T/O (before 500FT) and the earliest be disconnected at around 200FT AGL.
My present company has NO limitation on A/P ON after T/O and has minimum weather conditions for a manual F/D ON and manual F/D OFF (Raw data) approach. Manual F/D ON = 700M/200FT and Raw data 5KM/1500FT. This lucky enough lets us plenty of opportunity to practise manual flying.

What does "your" company has as minimum requirements?

Thanks,
and Save flying, with or without F/D, A/P......

[Centaurus]

A few years back when I was flying 737's in Europe I was amazed to read from a German operators B737 Ops Manual that hand flying is not to be carried out as it is considered hazardous. It urged the reader to make full use of automatics at all times.

Some operators encourage their pilots to keep up with their hand flying raw data skills - others are terrified and although giving lip service to its use make it clear that hand flying is not on under any conditions.

My feeling is that the pilot should be equally skilful at both hand flying raw data and use of all automatic functions. Within sensible bounds of airmanship the only way to be proficient at hand flying on raw data is to fly the aeroplane. That means carrying out raw data SID's and ILS. I was once told by a management pilot of a major European airline that the first officers of that airline were not trained to monitor raw data flying by the captain - only the automatics.

It is interesting to watch experienced captains and experienced and low hour first officers in the simulator attempting raw data hand flying without the crutch of radar vectors. But give them full radar vectors with full automatics and the aircraft runs on rails.
If I am a passenger down the back I would always fervently hope that the crew were 100% adept at all modes of flight.
With the majority of airlines insisting on full automatics then it is clear that raw data hand flying skills are a very low priority.

I was horrified to watch a highly experienced captain slowly roll inverted in the 737 simulator when his ADI "froze" during a raw data hand flown radar vector heading change. His automatics flying was spot on before that happened.

[Stall4All2]

Well, I fly for one of the larger german airlines. We are allways allowed to fly raw data if we want, and some Captains even encourage it, because it is important that we don't become one of those follow the needle zombies.

Offcourse we fly FD when we fly in highly dense traffic or when we fly a noise abbatement SID.

I think that flying raw data every few flights increases scanning and with that flightsafety. But i have to ad that flying the 737 which is relatively stable, raw data is often easyer then flying the good old C172:-)

Hope this helps!

Greetz Stall

[john_tullamarine]

Following on from Centaurus' post, we have both seen a number of surprising interludes in the simulator which come back to the atrophy of basic stick and rudder I/F skills in the absence of practice.

One of my preferences (subject to a bit of spare sim program time and appropriate briefings regarding what might be useful stick and rudder skills practice in the sim versus what is safe and SOP on the line) is to encourage a bit of super critical I/F hand flying.

Over the course of an endorsement program, the following makes a useful skills exercise and is a wonderful pilot confidence booster. The pilot is not put under any pressure, other than his/her own level of professional pride.

Perhaps 2-3 times during a 4 hour session, reposition to a suitable position on the ILS and set zero/zero conditions on the visual. On release, raw data and hand flown, the exercise is to fly smoothly and accurately as far down the ILS as the pilot is able. When the observed level of smoothness and accuracy starts to falter, the sim is frozen - the aim is to build up stick and rudder skill and confidence, not destroy... The exercise is repeated usually once per set for each pilot, captain-FO-captain-FO, otherwise fatigue sets in very rapidly.

There is no goal other than to strive for a gradual improvement. The exercise takes several minutes, several times a session.

Often, it has been my observation that a pilot, on the first attempt (and we are talking reasonably experienced people) has some difficulty once the aircraft is below 1000-1500 feet. Progressively, as the skill improves, the aircraft is flown successfully down to the flare. A reasonable proportion of pilots are able to progress to the stage of a successful flare, land and roll out to a stop on the centreline totally blind .. and this has been the case with pilots ranging in experience levels from 200 hour cadet pilots through to very experienced line pilots.

In a recent contract which involved Cat 2/3 training late in the endorsement program, those pilots who had worked through the above exercise found the Cat 2/3 work a walk in the park. It is not hard to guess the effect on the individual pilot's confidence when the check ride comes along at the end of the program .... and the benefit on overall smoothness in general flying is quite pronounced.

Clearly, this sort of thing has no place in real world flying, or does it? ... at least one of my colleagues, when all options had run out, had to do just this some years ago in an F27 .. without the benefit of any prior exposure in a simulator... a very sweaty experience ...

[FlapsOne]

John T

You are so right.

If we can eek out some spare minutes in the busy sim programmes these days this is an excellent way to improve, not just sharpen up, manual skills. Using a sim as a LEARNING TOOL to practice flying to limits slightly beyond the norm and, come the day, flying to the limits becomes considerably easier with the increased confidence level of knowing you could go further if pushed.

It's a sad, but ineviatable, fact that we live in an automated world. If the 'auto cahnnel tune' on your new TV doesn't work for example, most people reach for the book to find the manual tune method.

God help us if we ever end up operating aircraft that way!

[411A]

An even better approach is to schedule extra time as needed for the added practice...if it is used wisely, saftey is certainly enhanced, IMHO.
SQ did this years ago with their new guys on the B707, and the results showed. Today unfortunately, costs get in the way of safety...all too often.

[Orangewing]

Nice thought, Flaps one. However, any spare minutes that can be eeked out in the sim at our company are given to the cabin crew so they can have a play. As I am sure you well know. Now that is what I call a flight safety problem! Grrrrrr :( :(

[Captain Stable]

All good points. As 411A says, too often costs get in the way nowadays. My last company allocated enough time in the sim so that all could be covered if everyone did their tests smoothly and didn't need to redo the ILS or whatever, and could get out fast, grab a taxi to the terminal to catch a flight home. Extra time? Forget it.

[john_tullamarine]

Captain Stable brings up a sad point ... that of enthusiasm. It has been my observation that many pilots lose the value of the sim as a Training (with a big capital T) tool and are motivated by the "it's a pain to be got over with ASAP" attitude.

However, with a little bit of encouragement (sometimes, a bit of pushing) most pilots seem to be keen to have a go and test themselves against their own perceptions of manipulative skill standards.

I suspect that the main need is to convince them that there is NO penalty to be had if they don't achieve some nominal goal .. that is ... it is just a practice and skills improvement exercise.

Makes you wonder what sort of environment some instructors/check pilots must create to generate the unlying fear of criticism problem ..... it is quite amazing just how much better a pilot can perform if he/she can relax and not worry about the fact that someone might be looking at the performance.