Flap......again flap airbus

[michelda]

Hi guys,

Today very funny sim.......we had slat and flap fault after departure.

ECAM reports.....slat/flap jammed proc apply.

QRH title for this malfunction is slat OR flap jammed proc
(In my opinion because in the ck list there is nothing to know if you have both failed).

What do you think......apply it or not

Ps during my type rating (15 years ago) instructor told me that it was not necessarily but maybe things change.

Thanks

[rogerg]

What did your SIM instructor say?

[Elephant and Castle]

The QRH procedure does have important and useful information like:

Use selected speed
Use autothrust
Autopilot disconect by 500'
G/A speeds whith a table applicable to different combnations of flaps AND slats faults.

I would definetly use it unless there was an overiding reason not to (like low on fuel)

[vilas]

michelda
It is landing with slat or flap jammed procedure because it covers both the cases. If you don't apply you would not know how to configure for landing.

[michelda]

Thanks guys but........

You are already in selected speed (unless you want to overspeed (to) or fly at not correct target speed (land)).
You are already using the auto thrust (unless you have also other malfunctions)
Go around speed is already displayed on Ecam
You don't have to configure the plane because both slats and flaps are stucked.

The "only" news is disconnect ap at 500 ft........

[vilas]

michelda
Your original question is confusing. If you had both jammed at departure ECAM will give you F/CTLS FLAPS/SLATS FAULT/LOCKED. This is different than the QRH procedure LANDING WITH SLATS OR FLAPS. In any case you must complete the ECAM which will give you most of the things. The QRH procedure is mostly not applicable but you should note applicable portion like MAX speed for GA, LANDING DIST PROC. etc. Your VLS shown will be correct for landing.

[michelda]

Vilas

English is not my language, but I think I had written that we had slat and flap jammed.
Ecam reports that you have to apply slat or flap jammed procedure (my personal opinion is that in Aib nobody is thinking that 4 computer can have a failure in the same time.....)
Ecam reports your max speed and to calculate landing distance ( so ck list is not necessary)
Vls......is another story and basically doesn't enter in this discussion.


Anyway thanks for your reply

[Stone_cold]

Your ECAM directed you to the refer to the QRH procedure or are you reading from the expanded notes in the FCOM ????

[vilas]

michelda
As Stone_cold has asked I think you reading FCOM because ECAM never tells you to apply slat/flap jam procedure. You do it on your own as a part of abnormal procedure.

[michelda]

Vilas and stone cold

I'm old but I'm sure that ecam procedure (status page) reports apply slat/flap jammed proc.

And I'm also sure that in the last 10 years I saw it. Probably a different software...

You have it when you have slat jammed or jammed only (and it makes sense) and when you have both jammed......less intuitive because it doesn't give you necessary information ( except disconnect a/p at 500)

[737Jock]

Airbus ECAM says to apply the QRH procedure... So apply it.

Various instructors can tell you different stuff, best to just do what the ECAM/QRH procedure says. If most is non-applicable then you will be done with it in about 1 minute anyway.

But I guess you already experienced that as you would not have posted this question if the sim instructor had agreed with you that the QRH does not apply.

Can this non-topic be closed?

[Stone_cold]

It is a non topic , but the question is the OP asking something that is incorrect , thereby bringing into question the motives and representation herein . The ECAM has never stated this ! The only reference to QRH from A320 series ECAM is to the OEB's . Mis-representing what is in openly available "FCOM's shows a lack of understanding of Airbus FCOM notes versus what is displayed on ECAM . If this failure was actually "seen " in the SIM , the question could not have been genuinely asked .

[ironbutt57]

ECAM procedure applied when fault occurs..Paper procedure for Landing with Flaps/slats jammed is applied when configuring to land..simple..

[michelda]

Cold Sone
thrust me that I'm able to read FCOM and understand when it's a note or it's displayed on Ecam.......are you sure I'm speaking of 320?

cold stone and ironbutt 57
I apply ecam always (especially if i can say disregard to 99% of the procedure) .......but I have a brain for thinking....it's better apply it without think...you will live better......
for example....... why aib wrote slat or flap jammed procedure and not slat or/and flap jammed......

[Stone_cold]

Well Michelda ,your opening post said Airbus . It was not type specific , so no, I do not know if you are talking about 320/ 330 ,340,350 or 380 . Perhaps you could specify so that those with the relevant experience can respond .

[vilas]

michelda
After take off both jammed means some slat and flap must be there. You have selected speed. Slat/flap fault procedure apply this message never comes on ECAM. This is part of abnormal procedure you have to ask for. I have confirmed it in the SIM. As I said before most of the things are not applicable. However you need to check MAX speed for GA, Limitations on use of AP and ATHR from that procedure.

[sonicbum]

Hi michelda,

the paper checklist is called landing with slat or flap jammed because it applies to both surfaces. Did you get an independent combination of 4 failures or you started with some MEL already and added some electrical problems leading you to this situation ?

[michelda]

villas

I confirm that message (apply jammed proc) appears on Ecam and if you read fcom it is confirmed that it appears. (330)
I'm sure it depends of the database version is installed in sim (plane).
Max speed is displayed on ecam.
You are right when you said that ap limitation is reported only on that ck list. (no limitation on a/thr)

sonicbum

I had 4 malfunctions...2 just after rotation and 2 before flap retraction......unbelievable but this is another story.....

[vilas]

Michelda
Your first post you didn't mention the aircraft. I am talking about A320.

[Rocket3837]

On the A340 (similar to A330) the ecam does display "s/f jammed proc ....... apply".
I like to add that there is a difference between s/f locked and s/f fault situations:
Locked: aircraft is easier to fly because normal law is active & AFS is avail (AP/FD/ATHR) plus characteristics speeds are avail as well.
Fault: AFS lost and no character speeds makes it a bit tough to fly + Altn then Direct law for landing.

I suggest that QRH be applied in such cases.

On A320, ECAM sometimes direct you to QRH. Ex. "Fuel gvty feed proc" in case of Emer elect configuration.

Thanks