Post Nominals

[Compass Call]

While researching my late father in the London Gazette, I came across something new to me.
There was a MID to an Honorary Squadron Leader ****** R.A.F.O.

Can anyone tell what R.A.F.O. stands for. I tried Google but no luck. Probably asked the question wrongly worded!

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Could be -
RAFO Royal Air Force of Oman

RAFO Reserve of Air Force Officers

[Compass Call]

Just to add, the Gazette was dated 01/01/1946.
Also, I have never heard of an 'Honorary' Squadron Leader before.

[jayc530]

Why do officers feel the need to add post nominals when the rest of the educated world and members of institutions don't?

Decorations and honours I understand but do we really need to know that Sqn Ldr Smith has a BSc.

[Cows getting bigger]

Some of us don't.

CGB MSc MRAeS RAF (retd)

Duoh :ugh:

(PS. I know that RAF (retd) is not a formally recognised term) :)

[jayteeto]

The rest of the world do you know. Doctors, dentists, solicitors, builders, physios, nurses, paramedics to name a few.
Of course, only a select few of them do this............. very select.
I'm entitled to post nominal, however the missus would add a few extra letters of her own if I did it........

[jayc530]

The rest of the world do you know. Doctors, dentists, solicitors, builders, physios, nurses, paramedics to name a few. 
Of course, only a select few of them do this............. very select.

Exactly my point.

[jayteeto]

Yes, but you were having a go at officers. Trust me, many ex serving SNCOs do it as well. They too fall into that category.
In the civilian world there is a lot of competition for jobs. To get your CV noticed, particularly high powered jobs, you have to stand out from the crowd. One particular British Airline loves people with medals on their CV.

To quote Elwood Blues...... "I didn't lie to you...... I just bull****ted you"

[Pontius Navigator]

Got a cold call letter from a speculator who had searched google earth and wanted our orchard for a few houses.

On the basis that BBBs he had BA(Hons) after his name. I responded with my own which were slightly longer than PN and of course my rank too. He never tried again.

PN s have their purpose.

[Compass Call]

Does anyone know what the post nominal 'R.A.F.O.' means?
Or is Lord Spandex correct 'Reserve of Air Force Officers'?

[jayc530]

On a CV of course they have a purpose, but on photo boards and name plates the only purpose they serve is to further inflate the individuals ego.

The only reason I mention officers was they are the ones who feel they need to use them.

I would suggest that SNCOs are far more secure in their staus that they don't feel the need to use them... along with other members of society.

[Tankertrashnav]

That BA (Hons) one always amuses me. As far as I'm aware, even a "third" is an honours degree, so it's pretty meaningless.

TTN, BA (Exon)

;)

[Pontius Navigator]

In our club we have a retired sqn ldr and a wo, both styled MBE.
In our district a driving instructor who always uses BEM. He was proud to have it and more so when they stopped BEM.

[Davef68]

That BA (Hons) one always amuses me. As far as I'm aware, even a "third" is an honours degree, so it's pretty meaningless.

TTN, BA (Exon)

;)

In Scotland, an 'ordinary' degree lasts 3 years, Honours is 4 so the (Hons) has a meaning.

In response to the OP, in that time period it's going to be Reserve of Air Force Officers - part of the RAFVR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_Volunteer_Reserve

Presumably the Honorary title was due to the holder being ostensibly a civillian, but to place him in the structure as far as privileges and position were concerned (My dad was given the rank of 'Honorary Wing Commander' for a short time whilst working as a civillian with the RAF in Germany in the 70s. helped with Mess accommodation and going to Berlin. )

[goudie]

There used to be a jokey story that some Indians would put on their CV,
Bombay University Honours Degree (failed).

[Union Jack]

There used to be a jokey story that some Indians would put on their CV,
Bombay University Honours Degree (failed). - Goudie

....the whole point of which, my Father used to say, was to demonstrate that they had been clever enough to enter and attend the relevant university in the first place.

He also used to say that he had a PhD (Failed) in Applied Psychology at the University of Life, but never used post nominals for his honours.:ok:

Jack BA (Hons) (Failed) in Applied Psychology at the University of HK**

** = Hard Knocks, not Hong Kong

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

ehKGlT2EW1Q

D.Litt(All other places in Canada except Medicine Hat)

[Compass Call]

Thank you for yours replies, both serious and funny:ok:

[Sandy Parts]

jayc530 -
"I would suggest that SNCOs are far more secure in their staus that they don't feel the need to use them... along with other members of society."

I feel a brief trip through LinkedIn will dispel that notion :)
In my (recent and extensive) experience of ex-Officers and ex-SNCOs using these items, I reckon the score is about even.
(I speak as ex-both so have no axe to grind, although I do sharpen it every now and then..)
And no, I don't use them - as I ain't got any (sic)!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

If you have more post-nominals than nominals, it looks silly...

[jayc530]

"In my (recent and extensive) experience of ex-Officers and ex-SNCOs using these items, I reckon the score is about even."

Ex being the key part. It's only serving, usually senior officers that feel the need to use post nominals.

[Whenurhappy]

There seems to be a lot of ex SP on Linked-In who list their Post Nominals...but I estimate (very unscientifically) that about half are people list obscure industry-based diplomas, or qualifications from rather random, non-accredited colleges. It's as if ex SPs need to 'big up' their backgrounds, whereas in most cases there's no need to do so.

I use my post-nominals in work (as it is expected) but UK military seem to be about the only group who do it on a regular basis.

[Wander00]

My last paid job before retirement was as Secretary (paid) of a large sports club. My predecessor for whom I worked for 18mths used his retired rank (gp capt) and insisted I did the same (wg cdr). When he retired I dropped the rank (and the blazer and tie) on the grounds that I needed to be approachable ("You want WHAT?"). I then approached a senior member of the general committee (a retired 2*) suggesting that we dropped ranks from names in committee minutes. "Jolly good idea" he said, "but don't you suggest it, I will". What a gent. Service rank was wholly inappropriate, except when dealing with the Outer Office of our Patron, at Buckingham Palace.

[ricardian]

We had a dentist, a chap in his late 50s, up here who prefixed his surname with "MAJ" (yes, in capital letters). He was quite upset when I addressed him as Madge and even more upset when, after his explanation that he was a major in the RADC, I asked if he was still serving.

[MPN11]

A very dear friend of mine ran to 3 lines of post-nominals in the RAF List ... well, he was/is an Engineer. Now that he's also a Professor, I suspect he may have even more. To my knowledge he never used them in the public arena.

MPN11, O-Level and 5 Bars. :cool:

[Wander00]

I worked at HQRAFSC for a gp capt who claimed he had more qualification related post-nominal letters than anyone else in the Air Force List, that is until I beat him by one. Then there was a well known and much admired senior officer who was Air Marshal Professor Lord....

[Bob Viking]

Have you ever noticed on threads like this how non-Officers bleet about the behaviour of Officers but you rarely if ever see the reverse?
I'm not about to postulate as to why that is but I do find it strange.
BV
BSc (Hons) QTS CFS RAF
:E
Just stirring again. Sorry.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I had one boss who insisted I go join an Institute to boost the "weight"of the department in the Staff list, then got bitchy when I joined 3. ;)

[radar101]

Fox3: "If you have more post-nominals than nominals, it looks silly... "


We used to call it the pseud's quotient: if you have more letters after your name than in it then you were a pseud!


Incidentally, way back in the 80's when SAMA was brought in and we all had to provide our details on a form for transcription into the computer system in PSF, we found that the specification had only allowed for 6 letters post-nominal. The Medics, Engineers, Engineer Trainers etc were most put out!!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Is one a pseud for having them, or a pseud for using them?

[goudie]

how non-Officers bleet about the behaviour of Officers but you rarely if ever see the reverse?It's traditional and goes with the territory BV Also you is gentlemen and we ain't innit!



Just an observation but as a former SNCO, I'm amazed at how often, on these threads, officers bleat about other officers.

[Two's in]

Just to add some gasoline to the Officer/SNCO post nominal debate, my experience has been that ex-enlisted Officers are the worst offenders, particularly around the engineering disciplines. Makes them dead easy to spot on CV's and Linked In though.

Two's in
Red Swimming Badge and Bar

[Mr C Hinecap]

So what? Some people need that stuff in their life - mostly Engineers and I include all ranks of Engineers in that. As a Loggie I proposed a couple of well-calculated and accurate solutions to what were engineering problems. Dismissed out of hand from Sgt to Wg Cdr level - largely because I didn't have any engineering quals and they didn't want to hear it from outside Eng Wg.
It would appear that the framed McDonald's 5 star crew member certificate on my office wall was not sufficient.

[CdoGunner]

Fortunate to have a double barrelled surname of some length I have found post nominals quite fun when working in a certain middle east state where the military really had the PN bug you would be introduced to Lt Col, Dr, Master of Business Administration Mohammed the urge to ask which one was he today would probably not have gone down a storm.

Did once start a rather elongated paper chase to ascertain as to which PN came first MA or psc never did resolve in some 12 years. So if any member can help do let me know?

Signed CdoGunner Late RA, OBE, MA, psc or psc MA your choice.

[goudie]

VD and Scar was a popular one. Well at least in the lower ranks:rolleyes:

[Melchett01]

Shortly after starting IOT last century, some bright spark - either in the RAFC hierarchy or in TGDA or whatever it was called, came up this plan to get cadets to enrol on a scheme whereby they completed IOT, sent a cheque for £80 off and then got some sort of qualification in leadership from a university.

I can't remember exactly what the qualification was, it might have been a diploma or even a degree if you did a few extra modules. Anyway, having just joined up after slogging my way through a postgrad MSc in Meteorology, I along with another chap who had done something similar on a different hard sums course, refused to sign up on the grounds that we already had proper qualifications, earned the traditional way of hard work and difficult exams rather than just sending off a cheque. As I recall, telling them that didn't go down too well at the time, especially as a number of the Flt Cdrs didn't have degrees and so saw it as a quick way to credibility.

The whole post nominal issue has always amused me and I've generally found that it's the most insecure individuals that collect and use postnoms most often. On LinkedIn, I know of a few individuals that have included every award and citation they've ever received short of their 25m swimming certificate; it does make me wonder who they are trying to impress with it all. That said, during my CAS Fellowship interview, I did get asked if collecting degrees was a hobby!

But the big question is - do you boost your postnoms with the inclusion of (Hons) to get a cheeky extra 4 letters??

Melchett BSc(Hons) MSc RAF

[LTCTerry]

If I write to someone in the UK, should I include, or avoid, the "BS" for my Bronze Star?

Is that why a science degree is BSc rather than BS?

BSc, MHA, Lt Col (US Army (Signals) (retired)), BS, CFI-G, sore fingers...

Sometimes I wonder if we speak the same language once it delves into military jargon!

Terry

PS All meant in jest. :)

[Robert Cooper]

38 Posts and we still don't know what R.A.F.O stands for? Come on chaps, I'm dying to know!

Bob C

[goudie]

Take you pick

RAFORoyal Air Force of OmanRAFO
Read And Find Out
RAFOReserve of Air Force Officers (UK)
RAFORoosevelt Adjunct Faculty Organization (Chicago, IL)
RAFORoyal Air Force Orienteers

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I put BSc (hons), BSc solely because I have discovered people think there's a typo when they read BSc, BSc

In general, it seems best these days to only list directly relevant qual's and avoid post nominals altogether, except that academia and Engineers seem to still like them.

I've never used RAFO for RAF Orienteers as a post-nominal; should I start? ;)

[November4]

As Lord Spandex said in post #2

Reserve of Air Force Officers

This site (http://www.unithistories.com/officers/RAF_officers_M01.html) lists an officer being

commissioned, Reserve of Air Force Officers (General Duties Branch)

[dragartist]

I never thought this was such a contentious topic.


Interested to see the answer to the OP.


I use mine with pride and I hope in an appropriate manner. I don't have a degree but came up through the mature route. spent many hours over a number of years preparing a technical paper to present to a learned panel in town. I expected a grilling but wondered what all the fuss had been about. The rules changed several times and my paper was not required in the end. The chairman of the panel noted who my sponsors were and that was that.


I hope I continue to serve my profession and give something back in a similar way to those who supported me in my youth.


A few funny stories to add. I was a civilian working in a purple environment with Officers and NCOs reporting to me (light blue and brown jobs). I hated JPA and the reporting process but that went with the job. I had Civilian and Military reporting Officers. This grade equivalence caused me some fun. particularly when my "Adjutant" (an Army Capt) promoted me in the field to Brigadier. When on detachment overseas a real Colonel asked the Capt what Regiment Dragartist was from. I guess this "Honorary" rank allowed me the use of facilities overseas and in the UK. It also got me into bother a few times when out on detached duty with the SNCOs I would prefer to stay with them in their mess. To be asked a few times to move out. We soon began to use hotels rather than BOQs in the US etc.


I work alongside a retired RAF Sqn Ldr who continues to use the same PNs as I - he dropped the RAF (Rtd). When challenged why he was unaware of activities of the Society he said that he no longer paid his fees but continues to use the PNs on his letterhead and Business card.


Gouldie, I too have a VD and Scar!!

[iRaven]

What about Service post-nominals like cfs*, cfs(t), qss, qs, pscj, etc...:confused:

I honestly think that Dii signature blocks should have branch or trade in them so that you can gauge the background of the originator. These faceless e-mails definately lose the advantage of telephone calls where you can work out whether the person on the other end knows anything about what you're discussing. Thus if you are discussing an issue about finance to an Air Cmd staff officer from the RAF Regt then you know that you're in for a rocky ride! (After he's stated the bleedin' obvious having done a no-brain "Estimate" :E). That is also why I believe that every trade and branch should have a qualification emblem so that you can see at a glance who you are deling with. Post nominals also help complete this picture.

iRaven

[Tankertrashnav]

That is also why I believe that every trade and branch should have a qualification emblem so that you can see at a glance who you are deling with

I would expect that RAF Regiment staff officers would be able to spell, at least!

I see from a 1983 RAF list I still have kicking around from the days when I did medal research, the Reserve of Air Force Officers previously referred to became known as the Royal Air Force Reserve of Officers (RAFRO) in later years, which may have contributed to the confusion.

TTN (ex rock ;))

[Davef68]

If it took me 4 years to obtain what most people achieve in 3 I'd keep quiet about it.

Down to doing one less year at school (generally) than our English colleagues.

Never thought about it, but I now have more post-nominals than I usually write in my name, but I rarely use them all.

[teeteringhead]

Knew a colleague once who had his post-noms after his name on his cheque book!:rolleyes:

But then they were DFC AFC .......... :D:D

[MPN11]

Knew a colleague once who had his post-noms after his name on his cheque book!
My fellow Director has his MBE on his cheques too ... <shudder>

[Davef68]

Awards and decorations I can understand, but qualifications and particularly memberships of professional bodies are not the thing.

I have a mate who has a PhD but refuses to be known as 'Doctor' because his doctorate in in Mediaeval History, and as he puts it 'has efff all relevance to his job'.

[CdoGunner]

I would expect that RAF Regiment staff officers would be able to spell, at least!
My God you are an optimist

[Tankertrashnav]

Well I could spell when I was junior rock, so I guess if I'd risen to the dizzy heights of staff officer I would still have been able to spell.

Instead I became a nav, and so I had to learn to do sums instead of writing!

[ian16th]

I had to learn to do sums

Naw, we gave you thing like Gee and Green Satin to save you using both brain cells at once :)

[PICKS135]

Had an Foreman in charge of binmen with 'RSA' on his doorplate. When I asked he sheepishly replied 'Royal Society of Artists'.
Another useful thing ;-)

[orca]

I would much rather see post nominals on a signature block than the current fad for some chad leadership phrase, life coaching cliche, proverb or quote at the bottom of emails.

[langleybaston]

at RAF Nicosia Met c. 1960 there was a LtCdr (RN Rtd) grimly trying to keep up with properly trained forecasters. One of the latter, ex-National Service, with a B Sc., chose to sign off J/T (RAF Retd). Which was true, and cured said LtCdr sharpish.

[Donkey497]

My previous company, it was mandatory to have all of your post-nominals on your business card, letterheads, e-mail signatures etc., as the company prided itself and traded on the qualifications, experience and abilities of its staff. Until our last MD took over.


As he had a huge ego & didn't have any qualifications (at all), except for an ability to convince our parent company that he was continuing the company a success and turning a profit, despite the evidence of our accounts & falling sales, we were all immediately banned from using the PNs and had to scrap any paperwork that had them. The overnight change cost the company thousands, emptied our order book & was the single biggest contributor to almost shutting us down.


My current company also trades on innovation, technology application & the training and experience of its people, but does not reveal any on any correspondence, e-mails or anything else that can be traced to an identifiable individual.
Although not military, we always have, and always will operate in some distinctly unpleasant and hazardous areas, so everyone's value to those who might want to do some AK47 fundraising is never available to the baddies, as even we don't know what our colleagues might have hidden after their names. Our Clients know the qualifications of the people working on their projects, but no-one knows exactly who on any given team has what.
It's worked for many years very successfully & we have had relatively few "incidents".


As in many things, it's not what you've got - it's what you do with them that is important & for what it's worth I'm an engineer & well on my way to completing my second row of P-N's, but very few people outside my immediate family and a couple of curious friends know just what I have. I only ever use mine when the self-impressed feel the need to start a p1$$ing contest.

[ValMORNA]

I can recall seeing a name-plate on an office door in a hangar which read


(Incumbent's rank) (Incumbent's name) DFM


And underneath, in much smaller letters , De Fence Medal.

[Melchett01]

Well this afternoon I received an email from, shall we say a contractor, who in his signature block had the post noms QDJM MCMI.

I don't pretend to know everything, so it might be me being a bit thick, but Google has been no help - please tell me QDJM means something other than the Queen's Diamond Jubilee Medal?????

[Pontius Navigator]

A friend of mine does not cite his MSM though he did at work. His wife OTOH retains the style Dr albeit of mathematics.

Now this had interesting repercussions on a cruise. Their cabin was set up with two single beds :).

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Certainly seems to be used widely to mean Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal.

[ValMORNA]

I thought it might have been Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee Medal with the year MCMI/1901 but that is a few years out. Must be Member of the Chartered Something Something.

[ValMORNA]

Yes,yes! Member of the Chartered Managers Institute.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

5 years in management and £159 a year and MCMI is yours, squire. Impresses the Ladies, breaks the ice at parties, etc; nudge, nudge.

[kintyred]

My Dad is a 'PhD'. Many years ago he took over as works manager of a factory where he was initially known as 'Dr Who?'. After negotiations with the local union reps he became 'Dr No!'.

[Old-Duffer]

Ladies & Gentlemen,


Don't knock the use of post nominal letters!


If one looks at any of the social media things such as 'Linkedin', one finds an almost unimaginable list of claimed achievements and experience, which when interpreted into everyday language, actually means nothing too grand.


It used to be claimed that members of the armed forces frequently 'undersold' themselves when applying for jobs or comparing themselves with their civilian counterparts. Some online CVs certainly lay that particular ghost.


Like so much else it's mostly a load of spherical objects!


Old Duffer (BA Bombay failed)

[teeteringhead]

(BA Bombay failed) A chum of mine attended Indian Staff College instead of one of ours, as a result of which he was awarded an MSc from Madras University.

He took great delight in putting (ironically we hope) "MSc (Madras)" after his name on his office door.

We always thought if he'd tried a bit harder he might have qualified for an MSc (Vindaloo)!

[Lyneham Lad]

Well this afternoon I received an email from, shall we say a contractor, who in his signature block had the post noms QDJM MCMI. I don't pretend to know everything, so it might be me being a bit thick, but Google has been no help - please tell me QDJM means something other than the Queen's Diamond Jubilee Medal?????

So on that basis, I could add QSJM after my name... [cool].

[Pontius Navigator]

I know a civilian company owner cheeses off with all the OBE, BEM etc who directed his Secretary to put COM after his name.

[teeteringhead]

So on that basis, I could add QSJM after my name Which is of course much rarer than either QGJM or QDJM! ;)

[ian16th]

Which is of course much rarer than either QGJM or QDJM!Even rarer is the Coronation Medal, most of the attendee's didn't even get one!

HRH the POW wears his I notice.

IAN16th Old Boy Entrant

You work out the abbreviation.

[MPN11]

Wow ... 16 OBEs. That's really impressive :)

[Lyneham Lad]

Which is of course much rarer than either QGJM or QDJM!

I'll say it is rare - I only have the one ;) Mine has rarely seen the light of day since OC Eng said "'ere, 'ave one of these". Still, trying to find where on earth it had been squirreled away help pass a wet & miserable afternoon. Am obviously out of Duraglit...

http://www.kmercerphotography.co.uk/Medals_600.jpg

[PapaDolmio]

Certainly in my two jobs since leaving, ok on cv's. Not used in work.

When a young airman many years ago, my (coloured) Snco had a brass office door plate with post nominals HWNIC.
We eventually found out what they stood for- Half Wit N****r in Charge. :)

[taxydual]

My very old pal tells a story.

Many years ago as a teenager he worked for a builder for 1 week. Come payday Friday, his pay envelope was typed with his name followed by DCM.

"What does DCM mean? Boss"

Boss replies

"DCM means Don't Come Monday, you're sacked"

Oh how we laughed.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Although entitled to use the post-nominal 'RN' amongst overs I've never been tempted, lest I be mistaken for a bottom fancying navy boy rather than the hard as nails registered nurse that I am.

;)

[Tankertrashnav]

Have you just let slip that you are a Licentiate of the Royal Photographic Society Lyneham Lad? ;)

[teeteringhead]

Am obviously out of Duraglit... Duraglit! - nah! Too smelly.:=

Top tip I was given for cleaning medals (and use) is the rubber (eraser!) on the end of a pencil. :ok:

[Lyneham Lad]

Have you just let slip that you are a Licentiate of the Royal Photographic Society

Cough, guilty me'Lud. Something I only use on purely photography-related matters though.

[Clockwork Mouse]

There is an appropriate time and place for using post-nominals. Using them inappropriately invites ridicule. There are similarities with wearing your medals. You wouldn't wear them out shopping.

[ian16th]

You wouldn't wear them out shopping. Or for a walk in the park, it seems.

Army veteran, 70, assaulted as he walked to cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2829814/Army-veteran-70-assaulted-walked-cenotaph-Remembrance-Sunday-gang-thugs-stole-regimental-beret-medals.html)

[Tankertrashnav]

You wouldn't wear them out shopping.

They do in Russia, or at least they did 20 years ago when I was staying there. It was quite common to see WW2 veterans wearing their medal ribbons, or less often the medals themselves when out and about in civvies on a day to day basis.

The Gold Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union (which is solid gold) was meant to be worn at all times, never the ribbon alone, and I did a double take in Moscow one day when a smartly dressed man strode past me wearing said medal on his lapel. The Soviets didnt use post-nominals but still took medals very seriously and there was no cynicism directed at the holders. Holders of the Order of Lenin were allowed to go to the head of the queue at railway booking offices, post offices, shops etc, and in the latter days of the Soviet Union that was a privelege worth having!

[Courtney Mil]

TTN, I must try that with my Jubilee Medal.

[Pontius Navigator]

CM, on cruise ships many wear medals on formal nights. Some wear mess undress too. Last summer a WO with a chest full was in mess dress, not sure what regiment or corps.

Ship personnel also wear theirs, often they are the Environmental Officer and frequently sport dolphins too. Security office on one had para wings as well.

Village vicar in early 70s wore his wings and medals every Sunday.

[Union Jack]

Village vicar in early 70s wore his wings and medals every Sunday. - PN

Seems perfectly appropriate for a "sky pilot".:ok:

Jack

[salad-dodger]

CM, on cruise ships many wear medals on formal nights. Some wear mess undress too. Last summer a WO with a chest full was in mess dress, not sure what regiment or corps.
On a holiday!

Another reason to delay going on that cruise until I'm at least 80!

S-D

[Cyberhacker]

From memory, in Red Dwarf, Rimmer signed as BSC SSC - Bronze and Silver Swimming Certificate :rolleyes:

[ivrytwr3]

Sorry to dredge this one back up! Anyone knowledgeable of QR's etc?!

We have all had lovely door plates made up for our offices and some of the Officers have had MSc etc added, however, some of the J/SNCO's have also had their awards added ie BSC, MSC, GradDip etc.

Now it's been queried as to whether the OR's are in fact allowed to display their awards. Any advice or guidance chaps?!

[downsizer]

White mans problems :rolleyes:

[rarelyathome]

Sorry to dredge this one back up! Anyone knowledgeable of QR's etc?!

We have all had lovely door plates made up for our offices and some of the Officers have had MSc etc added, however, some of the J/SNCO's have also had their awards added ie BSC, MSC, GradDip etc.

Now it's been queried as to whether the OR's are in fact allowed to display their awards. Any advice or guidance chaps?!

Advise them to get a life!

[taxydual]

Well, there has just been an OR awarded a VC. Would you like to tell him he's not allowed to display it?

[charliegolf]

We have all had lovely door plates made up for our offices and some of the Officers have had MSc etc added, however, some of the J/SNCO's have also had their awards added ie BSC, MSC, GradDip etc.

Now it's been queried as to whether the OR's are in fact allowed to display their awards. Any advice or guidance chaps?!

Not THAT busy at your end of the business then.

CG PhD MSc BSc BEd Cert Ed CompL

[Corporal Clott]

Seen some muppets do:

XXXX MSc BSc

or

XXXX MA BA

I always thought that the higher award was just used.

CPL Clott MSc (who also has a BSc)

[Old-Duffer]

The service does not differentiate between the display of post nominals gained by officers and non commissioned personnel - nor should they.

In fact the gaining and display of such post nominals is actively encouraged, since it reflects very favourably upon the service.

Old Duffer
GCE 'O' Levels, 11 + failed

[Background Noise]

Not sure why post-nominals are needed at all on a door. Anyway, I wouldn't worry about post-nominals until you get the hang of apostrophes.:E

[Pontius Navigator]

Cpl Clott, agree. Although I have a DipEurHum, a BA(Open) and a BA(Hons)(Open), my employer only uses BA(Hons).

My employer is the OU so they should know.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The higher award is generally used when the degrees are in the same subject. The individual, like me (and, I suspect, PN) may have degrees in two different subjects. I have had colleagues qualified in 3 subjects.

[ivrytwr3]

So, can i take from this that the general consensus is that:

a. Fine for OR's to display post nominals.

b. Only highest award should be used.

I actively encourage it, but am unsure what the service requirements are.

[Tankertrashnav]

Although I have a DipEurHum, ...

Is that anything like tinnitus?

;)

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I think it completely depends on the culture.
One should display only those post nominals which are normal, erring slightly on the modest side. One's employers/colleagues will tell you to up them if it makes them look good.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, that too nut I don't brag about it :)

I set about the alphabet soup to annoy my colonel amongst others. Later I found the BSc helped when I worked with the environmental mafia and also put me two up on the DE who only had Cert :)

[tmmorris]

Only time I would put BA, MA is if they were in different subjects.

Individual universities should have style guides, eg at Oxford MA comes before DPhil even though the latter might appear more important. Obviously some people will have awards from multiple bodies.

Also don't include things which are obvious. (Eg in my own area of expertise no one writes 'PGCE' as we all are. )

[charliegolf]

Also don't include things which are obvious. (Eg in my own area of expertise no one writes 'PGCE' as we all are. )

I'm not a PGCE. And I share your area of expertise (broadly).

CG

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Ditto....... ;)

[Union Jack]

Although I have a DipEurHum ... - PN

Is that anything like tinnitus? - TTN

:D:D TTN.

I've served with a few people who probably should have had DipEurWick after their name!:ooh:

Jack

[Pontius Navigator]

UJ, I Shan't risk that again.

[MPN11]

Sadly I passed through the drinking course, aka RAF Staff College, before they offered the extra module [during the Summer break] to get an MA in Defence Studies.

So I have live with:

6 O-Levels (and about 10 more failed) - and took 2 years to get the 6 to be eligible for comisssioning into the RAF!
RN (Retired/binned)
RAF (Retired)
MBIM (resigned)
Medals - none [same for the OH] ;)


Do I care? Does it affect my life in any way? Naah, we just go on frequent holidays and, frankly my dear, we don't give a **** :cool:

[Lima Juliet]

It would seem a bit of a mess as usual...

Practice in the UK varies from that in the US partly because it is designed to draw attention to the fact that not everybody who possesses a higher ranking award possesses lower ones as well. For example, it is perfectly possible to obtain a PhD without getting a master's degree first. It is also possible for somebody who has never received a formal university education to be awarded an honorary degree. Therefore it is customary to list all higher educational awards post-nominally although one should not list step qualifications. In other words, lower awards that are wholly incorporated, or automatically converted, into higher-ranking awards should not be listed separately. For example, in the case of an MA from Oxford or Cambridge University, one would style "John Smith, MA(Oxf)" rather than "John Smith, BA(Hons) MA(Oxf)" - Oxford no longer uses "Oxon" as its official abbreviation - to do otherwise would give the impression that one possesses two distinct academic qualifications.

[alfred_the_great]

Oxbridge don't do "MA" degrees per se - they do MPhils and MSc (and MBA, MPP etc etc). An MA is a BA that has had 4 or so years to mature and automatically turn into a MA.....

[Melchett01]

When you say you would only put BA MA or BSc MSc separately if you'd done different subjects, do you mean say BA in History and MA in International Relations rather than back to back history courses?

Probably a dumb question, but I always thought you included all your qualifications in ascending order but I have heard of some 'guides' suggesting you only list different degrees, in which case BA MA would just be MA (same degrees regardless of subject) whilst BA MSc would both appear as they are different degrees.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Again, it depends on the environment I think. In UK Independent secondary teaching and Canadian Universities, I was told to include degrees in separate subjects (highest degree only), plus membership of Institutions. Personally I thought it looked a bit silly with more letters after my name than in it, but there we are.
(See 0:05 onwards!)
ehKGlT2EW1Q

CG can tell us about UK State sector and Universities I expect.

[Wander00]

Had a gp capt boss at Brampton who claimed he had the longest list of post nominals, in the Admin Branch at least. Less than impressed when he found out that having qualified as a Chartered Management Accountant, and as a Chartered Member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development and another Institute, I outdid him by one letter, and as a mere wg cdr!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Yes, I had the same when my teaching boss ordered me to go join some institutions, then I gained membership of 1 more than him!

[Wokkafans]

One very well qualified chap I knew had CPT in his long list of PN's - it was his "in-joke" regarding the whole system as it stood for Cycling Proficiency Test :ok: